Cast bullets for the 6.8 SPC...

[Aggie_Gunner]

Hello all,

Newbe here. Great site. A lot of knowledge here. I appreciate any help in advance :-D.

I have been toying with the idea of making hard cast, gas checked bullets for the 6.8 SPC.

They are .277 diameter nominally. With jacketed bullets, 130 gr projectiles are in the 2100 - 2200 fps range, so I think this is very do-able.

Only problem is trying to find a mould to make .277 bullets. Only ones I can find are in the 140-150 gr range, and this is too long/ too heavy for the chamber/ smaller case capacity of the 6.8 SPC.

Short of a custom mould, does anyone have any suggestions?

I thought about trying a 7mm 130 gr mould (RN bullets ostensibly for the Spanish Mauser) and sizing from .284 - .278 with a custom Lee sizing die. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks again,

- AG

[Aggie_Gunner]

From looking at one of the stickies in this forum, I see that NEI makes a 125gr GC .277 mould (#27B)...

This may be just the ticket.

- AG

[docone31]

Might be a candidate for the paper patch.
I am getting jacketed velocities out of lead with great accuracy. In fact, my .303 is more accurate than with jacketed. Much more accurate.

[fourarmed]

Check the Redding website. They sell SAECO molds, and their 130 grain bullet is a good one.

[Aggie_Gunner]

Check the Redding website. They sell SAECO molds, and their 130 grain bullet is a good one.

I'm looking at the molds offered by redding at this site:

http://www.redding-reloading.com/PDFfiles/bulletchart.pdf

And I don't see a 130gr bullet in .277.

Am I missing something?

TIA,

- AG

[fourarmed]

With my alloy (WW + 5%Lino) it casts closer to 130 than 140.

[GabbyM]

I've a Lyman #280468 Loverin 114 gr round nose. Have thought it should make a good 6.8mm boolit. o.l. is .800" nose is .290".
I could send you some to try and if you liked them you should eventualy be able to pick one up off ebay. Lyman later made this bullet 122gr. Mine is an old Ideal mold. :-)

[jameslovesjammie]

You and I think alike! This was going to be my project, until a .40 S&W CZ75B fell into my lap. I was going to get a 15" 1:12 twist Douglas barrel for an Encore.

You don't mention your platform. Most 6.8 SPC barrels have a 1:10 twist. This twist is more suited for a 130 grain bullet traveling at around 3000 fps. As velocity changes, so do the twist requirements. And switching from Lead to Copper changes some things up as well, as a jacketed bullet and cast of the same weight will have different lengths. You can read alot about twists, accuracy, and stabilization if you do a search. Too much info to go into here.

I have accumulated the Lyman 280411, 280412 hollowpoint, 280468 in 110 and 125 grains, and 280473. I also have the Saeco #270. If you already have a gun ready to go, please let me know. I would be more than happy to send you some sample bullets if you wouldn't mind sharing your data and experiences on here for everyone else to read.

[Aggie_Gunner]

You and I think alike! This was going to be my project, until a .40 S&W CZ75B fell into my lap. I was going to get a 15" 1:12 twist Douglas barrel for an Encore.

You don't mention your platform. Most 6.8 SPC barrels have a 1:10 twist. This twist is more suited for a 130 grain bullet traveling at around 3000 fps. As velocity changes, so do the twist requirements. And switching from Lead to Copper changes some things up as well, as a jacketed bullet and cast of the same weight will have different lengths. You can read alot about twists, accuracy, and stabilization if you do a search. Too much info to go into here.

I have accumulated the Lyman 280411, 280412 hollowpoint, 280468 in 110 and 125 grains, and 280473. I also have the Saeco #270. If you already have a gun ready to go, please let me know. I would be more than happy to send you some sample bullets if you wouldn't mind sharing your data and experiences on here for everyone else to read.

That is a very gracious offer!

Yes I do already have the firearm: a 1:10" 16" barreled AR15. I've already shot 110-120 grain jacketed projectiles through it with very good accuracy.

I would be more than happy to test some of your bullets and then reply back with an AAR (after action report).

Thanks... you can e-mail me at dp_holland@verizon.net and we can set it up.

- AG

ETA: My CZ-75B is my favorite pistol, hands down. I do all my IDPA with it. Mine is a 9mm CZ-75B Tactical.

[Aggie_Gunner]

I've a Lyman #280468 Loverin 114 gr round nose. Have thought it should make a good 6.8mm boolit. o.l. is .800" nose is .290".
I could send you some to try and if you liked them you should eventualy be able to pick one up off ebay. Lyman later made this bullet 122gr. Mine is an old Ideal mold. :-)

I would love to try them!

Thanks again for your input. Please see the previous post for contact info.

- AG

ETA: Thanks guys for being so gracious to a newcommer...

[ohland]

Using .278 dia, 114gr, 0.800 bullet length, 1:10 twist, the 280468 comes out with a Sg of 3.75, RPM of 122,400.

[pistolman44]

Stag Arms 6.8 SPC are 1:11 twist for thier rifles. Wonder why they chose that twist and not a faster 1:10 twist for thier guns?

[felix]

Because the slower twist is fine for 130 grainers or less. I would request a 12 twist if given a choice, and for a bench gun, a 14 twist for 115 grainers. ... felix

[ohland]

Stag Arms 6.8 SPC are 1:11 twist for thier rifles. Wonder why they chose that twist and not a faster 1:10 twist for thier guns?

.278 dia, 0.800 length, 114gr weight, 1:11 twist, 1750 FPS, Sg of 3.13, RPM of 114,500

Looks eminently doable.

:coffeecom

[Moonie]

I have the following mold I got from a fellow shooter on here:

http://www.tmtpages.com/web_images/pages/Ideal%20Mold%20280412%20%20134_gr.htm

I plan to use this in my Bison barreled 1-11" 4land/groove spec II chambered 6.8 as soon as I get a sizer made by Buckshot to size it down.

The reason for the 1-11" rather than faster twists is that with the limitation in magazine length you do not gain anything with the faster twist as you cannot put bullets or boolits heavier than the 1-11" can handle into the mag length and still have sufficient powder capacity. Keep in mind that the 6.8 was designed for projectiles weighing less than 130gr (or at least being shorter than 130gr condom projectiles).

Also twists faster than 1-11" raise pressures and lower max velocities which is the antithesis of the ideas behind the spec II chamber.

[ohland]

:shock:

Well, I lurked on the 114 grainer, has the Loverin style elliptoid nose, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 1st ed says it's good for accuracy and game.

Looking through some other books, the Loverin style ellipsoidal nose is good for shifting the Cg back towards the Cp. Or whatever.

Now to scrounge up some 270 caliber gas checks. And a .278 H&I die. Gonna stuff the resulting catastrophe through a Contender in 6.8mm SPC. Odd to think that as a youth, 3,000fps was sorta OK, then it was cyclic rate, now it's being retro. Any intelligent chimp can reload jacketed bullets.

Boyoboy. How to save money by reloading...

:not listening:

[morme@gte.net]

FYI, just letting you know about the Lee duplex 110gn/125gn mold group buy.

http://gunloads.com/castboolits/showthread.php?p=1229775

[303Guy]

I'm with docone31 on the paper patching. Did I miss it or didn't you say what rifle you have? If you are going for volume shooting then paper patching might be a bit tedious but for plain accuracy and velocity a .257 casting in 120gr should be quite a performer in a 6.8 SPC. (Anyway, paper patching isn't everyones favourite pastime - but it is addicting once you get into it!)

[Calamity Jake]

:shock:

Well, I lurked on the 114 grainer, has the Loverin style elliptoid nose, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 1st ed says it's good for accuracy and game.

Looking through some other books, the Loverin style ellipsoidal nose is good for shifting the Cg back towards the Cp. Or whatever.

Now to scrounge up some 270 caliber gas checks. And a .278 H&I die. Gonna stuff the resulting catastrophe through a Contender in 6.8mm SPC. Odd to think that as a youth, 3,000fps was sorta OK, then it was cyclic rate, now it's being retro. Any intelligent chimp can reload jacketed bullets.

Boyoboy. How to save money by reloading...

:not listening:


I've got a spare box of 1000 gas checks if your interested,
$25 shipped.

[morme@gte.net]

I would like to try Paper patching undersized bullets for the 6.8 SPCII. Where can I get step by step instructions (with pix if possible)


I'm with docone31 on the paper patching. Did I miss it or didn't you say what rifle you have? If you are going for volume shooting then paper patching might be a bit tedious but for plain accuracy and velocity a .257 casting in 120gr should be quite a performer in a 6.8 SPC. (Anyway, paper patching isn't everyones favourite pastime - but it is addicting once you get into it!)

[ohland]

I've got a spare box of 1000 gas checks if your interested,
$25 shipped.

Picked up a thousand from Midsouth.

[Marlin Junky]

This one might suit your needs if you have a long throat:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=666454

This one is a bundle (of $$) but was designed as a mid-weight for the .270:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=130873

MJ

[morme@gte.net]

Is there a thread on paper patching that would give a novice good first time results?

[Marlin Junky]

Oh boy... there's volumes of stuff to wade through on paper patching. Try an advanced search on "paper patching" with a search on "titles only". During the same search, insert "docone31 into the search on user name field. I recommend The Paper Jacket by Paul Matthews.

MJ

[morme@gte.net]

Just got back from the range. I shot all the bullets previously listed.

Quick conclusion
Lee C277-125R with 23 grains RL 10X was by far the best performer. Next was either the Lee C285-130R sized to 278 with the same load, or the RCBS 27-130-FN also with 23 grains RL10X.

The Lee 7mm Soup Can was the worst. I could only hit the 12" steel plate 75% of the time at 100 yards. I would say it had 12" or larger groups. Neither of the old Lyman bullets did well (with RL10X), either the 280473 or the 280468.

Here are pix of the targets I took with my cell. Note, my reference shots was a 3 shot group of factory SSA 100gn SP (Nosler white tip) bullets. The target shows my first 3 (cold bore) shots. Rings are 1/2 inch apart.

SSA Refererencehttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504ddde41121822.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=965)
C277-125R 100 yds 23gns RL10Xhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504ddde432d65fe.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=966)
Lyman 280473 100 yds 23gn RL10Xhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504ddde479e9485.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=967)
RCBS 27-130-FN 100 yds 23gn RL10Xhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504ddde4acb20cc.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=968)
RCBS 27-130-FN 50yds 21.5gn RL10Xhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504ddde4d4b0ef5.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=969)
C277-125R 50 yds 23gn RL10Xhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504ddde50fc8abb.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=970)
RCBS 27-130-FN 100 yds 23gn RL10Xhttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504ddde56ca6067.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=971)

[303Guy]

At first glance one might get the impression that the 6.8 SPC is an ideal cast boolit cartridge!

Smooth sided boolits are much heavier for there length and would add quite a bit of oomph to the cartridge albeit at a slightly lower velocity.
(Lubing being done with knurling and hot dip or LLA or maybe no knurling).

On paper patching - yes by all means but, the velocities attainable might not warrent it. The FUN FACTOR warrents it! I'll second docone31. He and other like him got me going with paper patching for my 303 Brit (which is a natural PP candidate). It does seem that you have a pretty accurate load there already to be tweeked into a bug-hole grouper. Let me re-phrace that - 'to be tweeked into a one-hole grouper'!:mrgreen:

[morme@gte.net]

I used liquid alox lube and tumbled them. after at least a hundred rounds, barrel was pretty clean. It did not take much longer than usual to clean. No sign of serious leading.

[NHlever]

:shock:

Well, I lurked on the 114 grainer, has the Loverin style elliptoid nose, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 1st ed says it's good for accuracy and game.

Looking through some other books, the Loverin style ellipsoidal nose is good for shifting the Cg back towards the Cp. Or whatever.

Now to scrounge up some 270 caliber gas checks. And a .278 H&I die. Gonna stuff the resulting catastrophe through a Contender in 6.8mm SPC. Odd to think that as a youth, 3,000fps was sorta OK, then it was cyclic rate, now it's being retro. Any intelligent chimp can reload jacketed bullets.

Boyoboy. How to save money by reloading...

:not listening:

last time I was in one of my local gun shops they had a new batch of .270 Hornady gas checks in stock. It surprised me to see them so it would be worth checking around a bit.

[GabbyM]

last time I was in one of my local gun shops they had a new batch of .270 Hornady gas checks in stock. It surprised me to see them so it would be worth checking around a bit.

Blamer ran a buy on 270 checks llast year because no catalog had them. I picked up 5M so I'm set for life I think. Someone at Hornady must have seen that because before we got the checks from Gator all the catalogs had them in stock.

[ohland]

Measured the 280468 L mould, its roughly .890", the 6.8mm SPC neck is about .250", that makes it either a deep seated bullet or a heckuva long throat.

:coffee:

[morme@gte.net]

Here are pix of the bullets seated to touch the lands in an SPCII barrel, except the C277-125R which is .010 off lands (magazine length)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=1207318&postcount=40http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504d87fe0e1aa82.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=272)

Here is the group buy 125gn bullet which I had very good success with. Seated to Magazine length, which is .010 off the lands in an SPCII barrel

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504d9a940564735.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=446)

[303Guy]

morme@gte.net (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=10950)

Looking at that loaded cartridge and boolit next to each other I see the gas check only just passes the neck shoulder junction with no lead actually exposed within the case and that just touches the lands? Oh boy. I think you have a winner there! It looks ideal. And no leading after 100 shots? That's got to be the perfect cast boolit rifle/cartridge combination. I'm thinking a lot of folks are going to be interested in that one.

[ohland]

[QUOTE=morme@gte.net;1282427]Here are pix of the bullets seated to touch the lands in an SPCII barrel, except the C277-125R which is .010 off lands (magazine length)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_109504d87fe0e1aa82.jpg

Diddled a bit with GCd 280468L, they look exactly like the image, OAL with my LnL gage is 2.262, the GC is barely below the neck. Since this will be in a Contender, I'm not freakin' out over the GC falling off.

Sized to .278.

Any recommendations for powder? It should be easier since the case is so small (compared to the cavern of my 6mm Rem).

I picked up SR4759 and TrailBoss for my 6mm Rem...

[ohland]

Has anyone used the NEI 100gr in the 6.8mm SPC? This looks promising, a nice, short bullet that should work in the (IMHO) short neck.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/179094e21abacd66a1.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=1483)

:coffeecom

[Dannix]

Did you guys settle on a winner for the 6.8SPC?

Moonie, I'm particularly interested on what you ended up with your SPCII. (I'm eying the 6.8ARP chamber, but holding out for the Barrett Rec7 refresh.)


I have the following mold I got from a fellow shooter on here:

http://www.tmtpages.com/web_images/pages/Ideal%20Mold%20280412%20%20134_gr.htm

I plan to use this in my Bison barreled 1-11" 4land/groove spec II chambered 6.8 as soon as I get a sizer made by Buckshot to size it down.

The reason for the 1-11" rather than faster twists is that with the limitation in magazine length you do not gain anything with the faster twist as you cannot put bullets or boolits heavier than the 1-11" can handle into the mag length and still have sufficient powder capacity. Keep in mind that the 6.8 was designed for projectiles weighing less than 130gr (or at least being shorter than 130gr condom projectiles).

Also twists faster than 1-11" raise pressures and lower max velocities which is the antithesis of the ideas behind the spec II chamber.

[Moonie]

Did you guys settle on a winner for the 6.8SPC?

Moonie, I'm particularly interested on what you ended up with your SPCII. (I'm eying the 6.8ARP chamber, but holding out for the Barrett Rec7 refresh.)

I haven't purchased a new mold for mine as of yet. I do have an old ideal RN mold that casts around 134gr. It works well for plinking. I've been concentrating most of my time on my 300AAC upper as of late.

This is the mold I use for mine:

http://www.tmtpages.com/web_images/pages/Ideal%20Mold%20280412%20%20134_gr.htm

[Dannix]

I haven't purchased a new mold for mine as of yet. I do have an old ideal RN mold that casts around 134gr. It works well for plinking. I've been concentrating most of my time on my 300AAC upper as of late.

This is the mold I use for mine:

http://www.tmtpages.com/web_images/pages/Ideal%20Mold%20280412%20%20134_gr.htm
Thanks. I'd be very tempted to HP that mould. What fps are you pushing it at?

[303Guy]

That 6.8 SPC is an interesting cartridge. I'm very interested in the outcome with cast. Does anyone chamber a bolt gun for the 6.8 SPC? It just seems such a nicely balanced cartridge.

[Moonie]

Thanks. I'd be very tempted to HP that mould. What fps are you pushing it at?

I haven't shot it since I got my chrony. I'll let you know once I do.

[jameslovesjammie]

That 6.8 SPC is an interesting cartridge. I'm very interested in the outcome with cast. Does anyone chamber a bolt gun for the 6.8 SPC? It just seems such a nicely balanced cartridge.

I really, really wish CZ would chamber it in the 527.

Remington did, but doesn't anymore. Remington never really gave the cartridge the support it needed, either. They also submitted the wrong chamber dimensions to SAAMI, so the chamber specs aren't what the original designers intended. Also, Remington used the 1-9.5" twist they use in the .270, which is less than ideal unless you are using 140+ grain bullets (but if you wanted to do that, you may as well just get a .270 Win). The whole way Remington went about this cartridge was a train wreck.

Currently, the cartridge is flourishing in the AR platform. There are, however, a few different chambers. The best 6.8 chamber design, IMHO, is the 6.8 ARP, also known as the 6.8x43. You either want this chamber or the 6.8 SPC II chamber. Either will allow the use of higher velocity ammo.

Info about different chambers: http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?18458-6.8-chambers-SAAMI-SPCII-DMR-6.8x43-Noveske-Mod-1

[GabbyM]

I really, really wish CZ would chamber it in the 527.

Remington did, but doesn't anymore. Remington never really gave the cartridge the support it needed, either. They also submitted the wrong chamber dimensions to SAAMI, so the chamber specs aren't what the original designers intended. Also, Remington used the 1-9.5" twist they use in the .270, which is less than ideal unless you are using 140+ grain bullets (but if you wanted to do that, you may as well just get a .270 Win). The whole way Remington went about this cartridge was a train wreck.

Currently, the cartridge is flourishing in the AR platform. There are, however, a few different chambers. The best 6.8 chamber design, IMHO, is the 6.8 ARP, also known as the 6.8x43. You either want this chamber or the 6.8 SPC II chamber. Either will allow the use of higher velocity ammo.

Info about different chambers: http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?18458-6.8-chambers-SAAMI-SPCII-DMR-6.8x43-Noveske-Mod-1

I also got all excited about the 6.8 a few years back. Since I have a couple nice .270 caliber molds. However after seeing multiple post here from shooters trying it in there AR’s. None of them were matching the accuracy or velocity I easily get out of my 270 Win. So besides having a less bulky round in your pocket I don’t see a bolt gun having much use for that one. In an AR that's a whole other ball game.

[Harter66]

I have this Carcano all over my man cave........bbl blanc chambered seems like a prime heavy varmiter or a mountain gun. Never mind the alt wildcatting w/standardised dies from 25 to 35 all of the AIs,ready proofed load data .

Apoligies off track

[10b101shooter]

what about the rcbs 150 grain mold?

[7br]

I also got all excited about the 6.8 a few years back. Since I have a couple nice .270 caliber molds. However after seeing multiple post here from shooters trying it in there AR’s. None of them were matching the accuracy or velocity I easily get out of my 270 Win. So besides having a less bulky round in your pocket I don’t see a bolt gun having much use for that one. In an AR that's a whole other ball game.

It also works well in a TC contender as a pistol or an extremely light carbine. I am guessing you could probably push a 110 j bullet at about 2700 fps out of the 21" barrel.

[Mark1Mod0]

Sorry for the necro post, but there are so few current posts on cast 6.8 spc. I took a cheap 135g lee 2 cavity and milled it off down to the gas check shoulder. I PC all my cast, so the GC is unnecessary. The resulting bullet weighs 120g, and the driving bands are a perfect match for the 6.8 case neck. Also, the bore riding nose shape is a perfect fit for the land to land dimension. Shoots great in my 16" AR at 2300 fps.

[Cast10]

Welcomed aboard 6.8 brother!