Newbie questions about casting 9mm and .223?

[PNW_Steve]

Hey Everyone,

I have been away from shooting actively and reloading for 20 years and am determined to get back to shooting on a weekly basis.

I have been a little surprised at how expensive things have gotten. To add insult to injury, I don't earn nearly as much as I did 20 years ago.

Reloading is a must. I cannot afford to shoot regularly with factory ammo. It is looking like casting my own bullets may be in my near future. I have never done any casting so this is new to me.

Along with that, I am a relative newbie to 9mm and .223 which is what I want to start with. I owned a Taurus PT92 back in the '90s and could never get it to perform adequately. I had primarily been shooting tunes 1911's in .45 and the Taurus just didn't meet my expectations in reliability and accuracy. Now that I am getting old and can no longer see like I could when I was 30 I have had to adjust my expectations and I am going to give 9mm another shot. I am no longer able to carry my 1911 all day like I used to and I am not as tolerant of recoil as I used to be. All things considered, it is time for me to retire my. 45's.

I have a Walther PPS and a PSA AR-9 (carbine) on the way and am researching bullets and loads. Coming from the .45 world I am accustomed to "heavy and slow". That had me looking for 147gr bullets and appropriate Sub-sonic loads. As I have been looking around I am getting the idea that 147gr 9mm has fallen out of favor due to COAL and seating depth issues.

What advice would you give to a "newbie" casting and loading 9mm for my 3.1" barrel PPS and my 16" AR-9 carbine?

Next question, is it really practical to cast .223? Or are the velocities too high? I am seeing most of the 55gr bullet loads are pushing 2600-3300fps.

Last question (for now), coatings, Alox, powder coat or Hi-tech? Cost is performance?

Feel free to offer any casting and loading tips you think relevant.

Thanks.

S.

[Burnt Fingers]

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/357-359-125-flat-round-nose-flat-base-8-cavity-aluminum-no-lube-groove-mold/

That has become my goto 9mm mold. I've got a bunch of other 9mm molds just collecting dust now.

For heavy boolits the NOE ELCO is my favorite. Due to the design it doesn't have to be seated as deep as other 9mm molds.

[tazman]

I would suggest a boolit between 120 and 135 grains.
If you want a heavier boolit, the NOE ELCO that Burnt Fingers mentioned is a winner for exactly the reasons quoted. I was involved in a small way with it's development and it shoots like a dream. It will drop at 147 grains in it's hollow point configuration.
Lee offers the 356-120-TC in a 6 cavity mold which allows for high production and it shoots great in everything I use it in. Lee also offers a 358-125-fp which was intended for 38 special but works well in 9mm also.
NOE makes a 135 grain flat point that also works really well.
I don't powder coat or use Hi-Tek coating. I just size and lube, usually to .357 and lube with White Label Lube 50-50.
I have several 9mm handguns I load for and this size and lube system works in all of them. I have used these boolits in carbines in the past.
If you are on a budget, the Lee molds are as inexpensive as you will find for a good mold.

I can't speak to the 223 since I haven't tried to cast for it. I sincerely doubt you can get anything approaching jacketed velocity with the 223 though.
I considered casting for it to replace 22lr a while back, but with 22lr prices down, I gave up on that idea.

On a side note about the Taurus PT92. I have two of them and they are quite accurate and reliable. That said, I made a change to both of them that made them work. I swapped out the Taurus barrel for a Beretta M9 barrel which is a drop in replacement. It made all the difference in the world.
The rifling in the Taurus barrel works fine for jacketed but isn't tall enough for cast. It doesn't grip the boolits well enough to properly stabilize them. The Beretta barrels work really well.

[chutesnreloads]

You have chosen one of the most problematic cartridges for a newbie to reload with cast boolits,9mm.The tiny .223 boolits may be a challenge for a newbie just to cast.
I would suggest casting and loading the .45 and getting proficient before stepping up to more difficult cartridges to cast and/or load for.Understanding the cost to shoot I would urge you to take baby steps in the cast boolit department to save yourself some frustration and possibly giving up on it.

[sigep1764]

I'll second the Elco mold from NOE for the heavy 9mm. It's the only boolit I load for 9mm now. Have shot upwards of 20k of them. I use Red Dot for powder.
223 I have been casting for for about a year now. I use an MP mold for a 227-75 grain boolit that gets sized 225, gaschecked, and lubed in a Star. W748 gets me around 2000fps which is plenty for plinking and practice.

[StuBach]

If you already have 45s and like 45s you might start your casting there and load up some mouse fart loads. The 45/ come in a bevy if easy to cast configurations that would make a a great place to start. Their wide so they are easy to cast. May I recommend a clone of the HG#130 or #68 as great molds that will cycle your 45 on lighter powder charges. Might need to swap out your recoil spring to a light one though depending on the charge you use.

As my father has gotten older (and his father before him) they have both found the #130 over 5 or so grains of bullseye to be a most pleasant round in their respective “tuned” 1911s with decent accuracy at the pistol ranges. Grandpa especially loved it in his old M1917s.

I don’t do 9mm or 223 but I do cast 380 and 30cal and have found those lighter or narrower molds to be a bit touchier on the temp and alloys they like so took a little more skill to get good fill out.

Once you have the casting down switch over to a harder option like the 9mm or 223.

[PNW_Steve]

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/357-359-125-flat-round-nose-flat-base-8-cavity-aluminum-no-lube-groove-mold/

That has become my goto 9mm mold. I've got a bunch of other 9mm molds just collecting dust now.

For heavy boolits the NOE ELCO is my favorite. Due to the design it doesn't have to be seated as deep as other 9mm molds.

Thank you for the recommendation. I like the idea of an eight place mold. I am a bit confused about the bullet weight. It looks like a 125gr from the website. I f I understand Tazman's comment it is a 147gr. Which one is correct?

[Muddydogs]

Why retire the .45's? Cast up some bullets and load them light, in the end you will end up with a lighter recoiling more potent round then a 9mm.

[PNW_Steve]

I started shoot with my father when I was seven and inherited his love for the 1911. I reluctantly quit carrying it as my EDC due to back and Hip issues. I appreciate the suggestion to start with .45 . I would run with it but I have some reservations.

As I am switching to a compact 9mm for my EDC I need to practice with it. I still take my 1911's to the range with me and enjoy shooting them. I had 11k rounds of .45 loaded up when I tore my reloading bench down and still have over 1k left.

If you think that the casting of 9mm is much more difficult for a beginner than .45 then I will go that route to get started. If it is the reloading process that you find 9mm to be more challenging then I think that I can make it play. I'm a bit rusty but I expect it will come back to me.

Thanks again Everyone for the input.

[PNW_Steve]

I started shoot with my father when I was seven and inherited his love for the 1911. I reluctantly quit carrying it as my EDC due to back and Hip issues. I appreciate the suggestion to start with .45 . I would run with it but I have some reservations.

As I am switching to a compact 9mm for my EDC I need to practice with it. I still take my 1911's to the range with me and enjoy shooting them. I had 11k rounds of .45 loaded up when I tore my reloading bench down and still have over 1k left.

If you think that the casting of 9mm is much more difficult for a beginner than .45 then I will go that route to get started. If it is the reloading process that you find 9mm to be more challenging then I think that I can make it play. I'm a bit rusty but I expect it will come back to me.

Thanks again Everyone for the input.

[John McCorkle]

I've cast loaded and shot a TON of 9mm...and am still tinkering with it to get it just right.

Powder coat is a dream...shake and bake method is cheapest and most effective for general use.

I use the Lee tc120 that @tazman referenced earlier...makes a mountain of lead in a hurry.

223? IDK. I have a mold but haven't been successful in trying in a gas gun. You won't get the same velocities as jacketed...not by a Longshot. Also even reducing velocity for practice (which is a very valid reason btw...you'll be able to practice so much cheaper) you'll still need to be picky in culling your cast boolits because small imperfections have a larger impact on a 55-75 grain bullet of small diameter than a bullet weighing 6-8 times that weight of larger diameter. Accuracy is the biggest issue I've heard when casting for 223 but is doable.

9mm, yes, do it ...try it get good at it and enjoy it. Makes practice so very inexpensive. Just be expecting to need to tinker with it

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[pastera]

The Lee 120TC coated with Hitech works well in 9mm as long as you use a slow powder - fast powders seem to lead even with hard alloys where a slow powder is clean even with relatively soft bullets.

[Burnt Fingers]

Thank you for the recommendation. I like the idea of an eight place mold. I am a bit confused about the bullet weight. It looks like a 125gr from the website. I f I understand Tazman's comment it is a 147gr. Which one is correct?

The MP is a 125 gr. The ELCO from NOE is the heavier boolit. https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/355-9mm/358-155-tc-as5

[tazman]

Thank you for the recommendation. I like the idea of an eight place mold. I am a bit confused about the bullet weight. It looks like a 125gr from the website. I f I understand Tazman's comment it is a 147gr. Which one is correct?

Sorry for the confusion. Burnt Fingers reply is correct.

[PNW_Steve]

Why retire the .45's? Cast up some bullets and load them light, in the end you will end up with a lighter recoiling more potent round then a 9mm.

I can no longer carry the weight due to back and Hip issues. I have plenty of .45 loaded up and I do take my 1911's to the range. I have retired them from daily carry.

My first thought was a compact polymer .45 then I shot one and it was a bit unpleasant to shoot. Not conducive to regular practice at the range.

My father was an avid shooter and carry advocate. I remember him answering the "what is the best gun/cartridge for carry? " question many times. His pat answer was "the one that you WILL carry and CAN shoot effectively."

Personally I am not a huge fan of. 380 as a defensive round. But.... I have one, I will carry it and I can shoot it effectively. Since I quit carrying my 1911 I started carrying a little .380 . It certainly is not a huge manstopper but it sure beats throwing rocks.

I think that the compact 9mm waiting for me down at the lumber yard will be a reasonable compromise. Damn Seattle liberals. Even though I have held a CPL for years and been able to pick up guns without a waiting period. Now we have a 10 day wait on any pistol or semi-auto rifle. Any semi-auto purchase requires showing that you took and passed a class. The material and the class are ridiculous.

We now have to go through an FFL for private transfers.

Next week when I can finally pick up my new guns it will have been a month since I ordered them. F'ing Seattle liberals.... 'Scuse me, I need to go take my blood pressure medicine.....

[PNW_Steve]

Why retire the .45's? Cast up some bullets and load them light, in the end you will end up with a lighter recoiling more potent round then a 9mm.

I can no longer carry the weight due to back and Hip issues. I have plenty of .45 loaded up and I do take my 1911's to the range. I have retired them from daily carry.

My first thought was a compact polymer .45 then I shot one and it was a bit unpleasant to shoot. Not conducive to regular practice at the range.

My father was an avid shooter and carry advocate. I remember him answering the "what is the best gun/cartridge for carry? " question many times. His pat answer was "the one that you WILL carry and CAN shoot effectively."

Personally I am not a huge fan of. 380 as a defensive round. But.... I have one, I will carry it and I can shoot it effectively. Since I quit carrying my 1911 I started carrying a little .380 . It certainly is not a huge manstopper but it sure beats throwing rocks.

I think that the compact 9mm waiting for me down at the lumber yard will be a reasonable compromise. Damn Seattle liberals. Even though I have held a CPL for years and been able to pick up guns without a waiting period. Now we have a 10 day wait on any pistol or semi-auto rifle. Any semi-auto purchase requires showing that you took and passed a class. The material and the class are ridiculous.

We now have to go through an FFL for private transfers.

Next week when I can finally pick up my new guns it will have been a month since I ordered them. F'ing Seattle liberals.... 'Scuse me, I need to go take my blood pressure medicine.....

[RKJ]

I’ve found the 9mm to be aggravating but not something to be scared of. Get the LEE 120TC, cast some up and have patience.

I’ve tried cast in an AR with the LEE 55 and a MP 70 grain and could not get the accuracy I wanted. After casting, Powder coating and then sizing those little buggers I decided to just use bulk (cheap) jacketed. It wasn’t wort the aggravation for me. Good luck going forward.

[PNW_Steve]

I've cast loaded and shot a TON of 9mm...and am still tinkering with it to get it just right.

Powder coat is a dream...shake and bake method is cheapest and most effective for general use.

I use the Lee tc120 that @tazman referenced earlier...makes a mountain of lead in a hurry.

223? IDK. I have a mold but haven't been successful in trying in a gas gun. You won't get the same velocities as jacketed...not by a Longshot. Also even reducing velocity for practice (which is a very valid reason btw...you'll be able to practice so much cheaper) you'll still need to be picky in culling your cast boolits because small imperfections have a larger impact on a 55-75 grain bullet of small diameter than a bullet weighing 6-8 times that weight of larger diameter. Accuracy is the biggest issue I've heard when casting for 223 but is doable.

9mm, yes, do it ...try it get good at it and enjoy it. Makes practice so very inexpensive. Just be expecting to need to tinker with it

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

:) :) Tinker? I think I can deal with it :) I have loaded many thousand rounds with the old version of the Lee 1000. I think that makes me an expert tinkerer.

These days I have plenty of time at the expense of disposable income. I am all about cost effective practice and plunking.

I will give the mold above a shot. Most of the molds I have looked at so far have been two or four position molds. The one above looks like it is an eight position. Are there any special considerations with the larger mold?

Regarding coating: Do you use HF powder or another brand? How does Alox compare?

Thanks.

[PNW_Steve]

I’ve found the 9mm to be aggravating but not something to be scared of. Get the LEE 120TC, cast some up and have patience.

I’ve tried cast in an AR with the LEE 55 and a MP 70 grain and could not get the accuracy I wanted. After casting, Powder coating and then sizing those little buggers I decided to just use bulk (cheap) jacketed. It wasn’t wort the aggravation for me. Good luck going forward.

What sort of issues have you had with casting 9mm?

I understand the .223 can be particular when it comes to bullet quality. I used to load .225 using the same range of bullets as we are using for .223. I bought some cheap bullets and found base imperfections and variations in weight threw accuracy out of the window.

What have you found to be the best buy on reasonable jacketed .223 bullets in the 67-72gr range?

Thanks.

[tazman]

There are no issues with Lee 6 cavity molds that don't exist with other molds. Just get the mold hot before you start casting. You can use a hot plate or set the mold on the top of your pot while it is heating up.
I have used powder coating in the past but find it to be more hassle than I wish to deal with. I water quench my boolits directly from the mold. When I powder coat, I have to re-heat treat the boolits to get them hard again.
The system I use works fine for me so why change it?

[chutesnreloads]

The casting of the 9mm is not an issue,,,the trouble comes from loading.I never could get a whole magazine shot without bullets hitting the target sieways until started powdercoating.Even with the powder coat I've had too much frustration loading cast in 9mm.
One consideration with the multi-cavity molds is the extra weight since the heavier pistols are an issue.Just something to consider

[The Dar]

Before spending any $$$ on casting equipment I would first find a source for lead. All the casting equipment in the world will be useless unless you have raw materials.

[PNW_Steve]

There are no issues with Lee 6 cavity molds that don't exist with other molds. Just get the mold hot before you start casting. You can use a hot plate or set the mold on the top of your pot while it is heating up.
I have used powder coating in the past but find it to be more hassle than I wish to deal with. I water quench my boolits directly from the mold. When I powder coat, I have to re-heat treat the boolits to get them hard again.
The system I use works fine for me so why change it?

Agreed. If it works for you don't change it.

I just want to pick your collective brains :) and try to figure out what will work for me.

I appreciate your help.

[PNW_Steve]

The casting of the 9mm is not an issue,,,the trouble comes from loading.I never could get a whole magazine shot without bullets hitting the target sieways until started powdercoating.Even with the powder coat I've had too much frustration loading cast in 9mm.
One consideration with the multi-cavity molds is the extra weight since the heavier pistols are an issue.Just something to consider

What is the barrel length you are shooting from? Barrel twist?

[PNW_Steve]

Before spending any $$$ on casting equipment I would first find a source for lead. All the casting equipment in the world will be useless unless you have raw materials.

It's a 30+ mile drive to the nearest salvage yard but they do have 50# of fishing weights waiting for me @ $0.25 a pound.

I haven't checked yet but I may be able to buy lead from the local bullet casting company. Yeah.... We don't have Walmart or McDonald's but we do make boolits. :)

[Dapaki]

.223 are a challenge to be sure. I have yet to load any of the 3-coat PC boolits I cast earlier this winter for my AR as I have been distracted by the 350LGD. I will see if I can get a box loaded up and sent down range this weekend. I'm sure you don't want to fuss with these though, I temper the boolits at 5 degrees under slump then into an ice/salt bath right out the door of the oven.

[MT Gianni]

In comparison with a casting education, you are attempting to start college level 300 classes with out graduating from high school. It can be done but not without a ton of frustrations. Most casters start with 38 special and 30-30 because they need the fundamentals.
Having cast for 9mm since the early 90's, I am not sure accuracy will ever exceed jacketed in that caliber and one has to be a master to equal it. I find 223 much easier to get accurate loads with a break open or a bolt action than an AR, though it can happen. I think that building without a foundation is a recipe for failure.

[chutesnreloads]

In comparison with a casting education, you are attempting to start college level 300 classes with out graduating from high school. It can be done but not without a ton of frustrations. Most casters start with 38 special and 30-30 because they need the fundamentals.
Thank you.This is what I was trying to get across,

[PNW_Steve]

I am still missing what it is that makes 9mm so difficult?

I am not being argumentative. I really don't understand the difference in difficulty between .38, .45 and 9mm. I have loaded all three and not found any one of them particularly difficult. 9mm may be a bit more particular as far as COAL and bullet shape to feed well but not much.

I am on a quest to learn something new. I appreciate you all taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.

[tazman]

I am still missing what it is that makes 9mm so difficult?

I am not being argumentative. I really don't understand the difference in difficulty between .38, .45 and 9mm. I have loaded all three and not found any one of them particularly difficult. 9mm may be a bit more particular as far as COAL and bullet shape to feed well but not much.

I am on a quest to learn something new. I appreciate you all taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.

I missed that as well. I have never had the trouble many on this site have with casting for the 9mm. I have no idea why even though in many cases, the guns are the same.

[chutesnreloads]

It is true many have loaded cast in 9mm with no trouble....... but....many do have trouble.Was problems with cast and 9mm brought me here in the beginning.
After all these years I'm still not satisfied with my cast reloads in 9mm.Moved on to other areas that DO work well.
Haven't given up on the 9mm and cast but these days I shoot more revolver because I don't have to pick up brass and never lose any.
Had I known back then what I know now .... I wouldn't have tried loading cast in 9mm before I got some experience with the easier cartridges.
Not telling you not to try it..... but by all means use the wealth of information on this site before starting.Read,read, and read some more.
Homework will save a lot of headaches.Hope things work out well for you.

[reddog81]

9mm is a small high pressure round where the little details all matter. Casting and loading for 45 ACP is generally viewed as being the easier auto-loading round for cast bullets.

In order to get reasonable accuracy out of 9mm with cast bullets it took me a number of years of casting and reloading to get rounds on par with jacketed bullets. Alloy selection is more important. Correctly sizing bullets is very important. I have guns that take a .357 bullet and others that I use a .358 bullet. The .357 will work in all but I get better accuracy with .358 if it’ll chamber. I use a Lyman M die as an expander since most expanders are meant for jacketed bullets. OAL is more critical. Small variations in powder charges make a bigger difference, etc.

Starting with 45 ACP is what I’d recommend. With a light target loads you can turn the .45 ACP into something on par with a 38 Special.

[PNW_Steve]

Thank you all for your replies.

I am still not entirely clear as to where the difficulty lies. I have loaded many thousand cast .45 & .38 in the past. There was a little tinkering to get the press set up just right but after a week or two I was turning out consistent rounds. If any of you have run the Lee 1000 you understand :):)

I didn't have any trouble loading cast bullets that I bought. Mostly Redline and Rainier Ballistics.

Is the difficulty you are warning me of in the casting process or the loading?

Maybe I should buy some cast 9mm bullets and work on loading them first?

A little rant about online sellers. I ordered my new press and dies from Lock N Load. The price was fair. Shipping was a little slow. Invoking was disappointing. Two accessories that I ordered were not in the box and one piece was missing from the press kit. And one piece was broken. I called the number on the shipping label and was told that they weren't Lock n Load they just drop ship for them. They gave me another number to call. Called that number and was given a third number. Called #3 and described my problem. She told me that it was a manufacturer issue, call Lee. Then hung up on me. So I tried calling Lee using my new Visible cellular service. For three hours I got "were sorry, all circuits are busy". I finally gave up and decided to call Visible and see what the problem was. Unfortunately, you can't call them.... All support is online. I fired up the support app on my phone and got a chat session going in only 20 minutes. I explained my problem and they asked a couple of questions. Then the app crashed and the chat feature no longer works.
What to do now? I tried calling Lee again. A wonderful lady answered the phone and listened to my tale. She apologized for the dealer blowing me off and arranged for the missing/broken pieces to be shipped out. It was AAA+ customer service from lee. Not so much for Lock n Load or Visible.

[Dapaki]

My experiences with loading 9mm come more from FTF and SP problems due to feeding. Once I switched to PC, all my problems went away and all of the boolits will load. I have had no issues with COL or powder loads, crimping or primers so others can chime in if they wish.

*I spoke with Kathy at LEE last week after sending a broken press back after 1/2 million rounds of .223 went through it over 30 years, she was a sweetie and got me back up and running in no time! AAA+ from me as well.

[PNW_Steve]

From some of the replies, I am not sure if I have communicated my circumstances well.

I have never cast bullets.

I have several years experience loading both cast and jacketed bullets. More cast than jacketed. More pistol than rifle.

I am switching my every day carry from a full size 1911 .45 to a compact polymer 9mm. I still have plenty of .45 ammo on the shelf and will continue to shoot it for fun. I just cannot carry it all day every day.

Since I am changing my carry pistol I am changing my practice pistol. Since I like to practice regularly and ammo prices have gone up I need to economize. Reloading using commercially produced bullets is a good start but will still have me counting my pennies.

You all have convinced me that casting my own .223 is out of the question for now.

Casting my own 9mm still appeals to me but some of you are voicing caution and a am not understanding what the particular challenges are.

Press is mounted to the bench and set up with a four die set 9mm. Brass is cleaned. Primers and powder are ready.... Now all I need is boolits.... Oh... And a gun :) .. Seven days and counting....

Thanks again Everyone for the input. Please have patience with me.

[reddog81]

I laid out the problems I’d run into in post 32...

If you want to cast for 9mm go ahead. Typically the worst case scenario is poor accuracy and a leaded barrel. It’s not the end of the world if you screw up. There’s probably a million posts online with people having tons of experience loading other rounds and then trying 9mm and having a variety of issues they’ve never had before.

[PNW_Steve]

My experiences with loading 9mm come more from FTF and SP problems due to feeding. Once I switched to PC, all my problems went away and all of the boolits will load. I have had no issues with COL or powder loads, crimping or primers so others can chime in if they wish.

*I spoke with Kathy at LEE last week after sending a broken press back after 1/2 million rounds of .223 went through it over 30 years, she was a sweetie and got me back up and running in no time! AAA+ from me as well.

I am pretty sure that I spoke with Kathy yesterday. Very nice lady and a pleasure to talk to on the phone.

She also told me that they may be able to upgrade my 25 year old Lee 1000. That surprised me.

[PNW_Steve]

I laid out the problems I’d run into in post 32...

If you want to cast for 9mm go ahead. Typically the worst case scenario is poor accuracy and a leaded barrel. It’s not the end of the world if you screw up. There’s probably a million posts online with people having tons of experience loading other rounds and then trying 9mm and having a variety of issues they’ve never had before.

OK :)

I read your post and did not see it as "problems". Just the details that you had to work through getting your loads worked out for particular guns.

I have never stated loading for a new cartridge and loaded perfectly for a particular gun the first try. We didn't look at it as problems. It was experimentation trying constantly to make it shoot a little better.

I appreciate your input and took it as encouragement.

[reddog81]

It’s not like anything crazy happens with 9mm. It’s just a PITA compared to most rounds. It’s a small high pressure round.

[Dapaki]

As my wife says, "Short and tippy!" :Fire:

[Burnt Fingers]

When I started loading lead boolits in the 9mm it had me pulling out my hair.

1. Many 9mm pistols have oversized bores. Some as large as 0.358
2. The short tapered case is VERY sensitive to seating depth. A slight change can cause huge pressure spikes.
3. The short tapered case limits seating depth and can swage down some boolits.
4. A Lee carbide FCD isn't the answer to ANYTHING in 9mm.
5. The vast majority of 9mm chambers aren't cut to SAAMI spec. They have no leade or throat. This can cause huge problems with seating depth, more so with properly sized boolits. They can also cut through any coating you use on the boolits due to a 90° angle on the rifling.

To get around these problems.

1. Slug your bore.
2. Send your barrel to DougGuy to have it "fixed".
3. Throw the Lee Carbide FCD in the trash.
4. Load as long as your chamber will allow.

[mvintx]

Steve - getting cast boolits to perform in 9mm can be frustrating but I'd just say jump in and give it a go. I'm in the process of trying to get the Lyman #356402 120gr TC to shoot well in my Glock 23 with a 9mm Lone Wolf barrel. I also have a PSA AR9 and would like to load cast boolits for it also...maybe we can compare notes as we go along. There's lots of info on this forum and you can learn alot from it. Good luck.

[tazman]

When I started loading lead boolits in the 9mm it had me pulling out my hair.

1. Many 9mm pistols have oversized bores. Some as large as 0.358
2. The short tapered case is VERY sensitive to seating depth. A slight change can cause huge pressure spikes.
3. The short tapered case limits seating depth and can swage down some boolits.
4. A Lee carbide FCD isn't the answer to ANYTHING in 9mm.
5. The vast majority of 9mm chambers aren't cut to SAAMI spec. They have no leade or throat. This can cause huge problems with seating depth, more so with properly sized boolits. They can also cut through any coating you use on the boolits due to a 90° angle on the rifling.

To get around these problems.

1. Slug your bore.
2. Send your barrel to DougGuy to have it "fixed".
3. Throw the Lee Carbide FCD in the trash.
4. Load as long as your chamber will allow.

Excepting the remarks about the Lee FCD, I agree with you completely.

[JimB..]

The .223 answer for me is factory second fmj bullets. I get 55gr for $.05, don’t remember what 62gr cost. Send me a PM if you can’t find a source online, I don’t have the info at hand.

[PNW_Steve]

When I started loading lead boolits in the 9mm it had me pulling out my hair.

1. Many 9mm pistols have oversized bores. Some as large as 0.358
2. The short tapered case is VERY sensitive to seating depth. A slight change can cause huge pressure spikes.
3. The short tapered case limits seating depth and can swage down some boolits.
4. A Lee carbide FCD isn't the answer to ANYTHING in 9mm.
5. The vast majority of 9mm chambers aren't cut to SAAMI spec. They have no leade or throat. This can cause huge problems with seating depth, more so with properly sized boolits. They can also cut through any coating you use on the boolits due to a 90° angle on the rifling.

To get around these problems.

1. Slug your bore.
2. Send your barrel to DougGuy to have it "fixed".
3. Throw the Lee Carbide FCD in the trash.
4. Load as long as your chamber will allow.

Thank you for the suggestions.

I am planning on slugging everything that I want to cast for.

You all have convinced me that casting .223 is not going to fly. So.... I guess, in order to save money on ammo, I will need a rifle that I can cast for. I am thinking .300 Blackout :) "Honey, I bought it to save us money".....

With the suggestions so far, I am going to buy some factory ammo to get me rolling with my 9mm and .223. I am going to buy some commercially produced cast bullets and work through the process of loading 9mm cast before casting my own.

Seriously, I see the .300 Blackout as being cheaper to shoot than .223 as long as I can keep my lead costs under control. Currently I can get lead fishing weights for $0.25 a pound and Lyman #2 (or equivalent) for $2.00-$2.50 a pound.


Any additional advice regarding 9mm would be welcome.

It sounds like I have an education coming learning to cast and load 9mm. I appreciate your time and knowledge.

F

[PNW_Steve]

The .223 answer for me is factory second fmj bullets. I get 55gr for $.05, don’t remember what 62gr cost. Send me a PM if you can’t find a source online, I don’t have the info at hand.

I have found 55gr pulls for $0.067 so far. I would prefer 62gr bullets. If you have a good source for 62gr for under $0.06 I would be thrilled.

Thanks Everyone.

[Burnt Fingers]

Thank you for the suggestions.

I am planning on slugging everything that I want to cast for.

You all have convinced me that casting .223 is not going to fly. So.... I guess, in order to save money on ammo, I will need a rifle that I can cast for. I am thinking .300 Blackout :) "Honey, I bought it to save us money".....

With the suggestions so far, I am going to buy some factory ammo to get me rolling with my 9mm and .223. I am going to buy some commercially produced cast bullets and work through the process of loading 9mm cast before casting my own.

Seriously, I see the .300 Blackout as being cheaper to shoot than .223 as long as I can keep my lead costs under control. Currently I can get lead fishing weights for $0.25 a pound and Lyman #2 (or equivalent) for $2.00-$2.50 a pound.


Any additional advice regarding 9mm would be welcome.

It sounds like I have an education coming learning to cast and load 9mm. I appreciate your time and knowledge.

F

I just built a 300 Blackout pistol. It's a real hoot to shoot. Pretty inexpensive entertainment.

[reddog81]

How much lead can you get at $.25? I’d buy it all... When I first started casting I bought 50 lbs lots, now I don’t get interested unless it’s 100 lbs or more. Preferably 200 lbs or more.

300 Blackout is much more versatile and cast friendly than .223.

[PNW_Steve]

How much lead can you get at $.25? I’d buy it all... When I first started casting I bought 50 lbs lots, now I don’t get interested unless it’s 100 lbs or more. Preferably 200 lbs or more.

300 Blackout is much more versatile and cast friendly than .223.

I am going to take everything I can get at .25 a lb.

I wish that I had been more familiar with .300 Blackout when I bought my first AR. Or my second one......

[Burnt Fingers]

If I could get lead for $0.25 a lb I'd be stacking it deep.

[PNW_Steve]

If I could get lead for $0.25 a lb I'd be stacking it deep.

I can only carry around 3000# in my truck so, unless I want to make multiple trips I will be limited :)

:)

[tbobbo]

I am about 3 years into my 9mm casting quest. I shoot beretta 92s. Mine all slug at .359
I have a hard time getting a boolit that big into a 9mm case without sizing it down. I am giving up........I will be getting an aftermarket barrel to put in my competition gun so I can use regular equipment.
I started off this way.........many hours of reading and trying things........I have gave up for months at a time. I am going to give it another go......I am down to my last 1000 j words. I am confident if I get a barrel that slugs at .355 or .356......I can make that work all day. I guess we will see. It’s easy to make some 9mm that look good......but when they hit the paper sideways........not good. When they lead your barrel......not good.

[tbobbo]

I see my join date was sept 2017, I lurked here for a couple years first. So it’s been longer. I sell tires, I can get all the free lead I want. It’s in my best interests to make this work.

[charlie b]

Since you are in the business...why won't the local tire shops let me buy wheel weights from them?

Is it some sort of contract thing? Govt regs?

[canyon-ghost]

I had the same trouble in 41 mag. Leaded up due to copper fouling. I had to clean that barrel 4 times to get All the copper and powder residue out. Nowdays, I may load a magazine with factory hollowpoints but, I don't shoot them (only in an emergency). I cast and shoot 9mm in three different pistols. It isn't the lead, it's the jacketed. My lead is just wheelweight. Works for me very well.

Good Luck,
Ron

[jwlegal]

You fit right in with my problems. Bad back causes the 45 to become an aggravation to carry. I promised myself I would never reload 9mm or 223 because they are just too small and too much aggravation. But with age and back problems I tried the 9mm. Really amazed as it pretty much is a 38 with regard to casting and reloading. Not too many problems. The 223, however.... The good news is that I decided to try the Lee 55gr. 6 cavity mold and if you follow the instructions it does a wonderful job. First try it started casting good bullets on the third fill and quickly ran through a little over 300 good quality rounds. Of course I still have to put a gas check on them while sizing, but think I will be able to manage that. Priming was a real pain. Again, it is doable and I got through it. Guess the most amazing part was the cast boolits…. currently working up a load. I'll let you know if I find something that shoots well. Please post if you find something as well.
This Old age is not what it was cracked up to be years ago. However the experience sometimes really does come in handy.
I only load practice rounds for the 9mm. As a carry weapon it goes against the grain as I was always told to never get into a gunfight without a caliber that did not start with a 4. Old Marine and never though I would consider carrying a 9mm but guess it is better than nothing. (Darn back)

[onelight]

Well one thing about it 9mm and 223 are about the cheapest factory ammo to buy.
My free lead supply is about gone and I will use what I have left and or buy , for guns that I prefer my bullets in.
Or that factory loads are pricey for ( about every thing but 9mm and 223 ) :grin:

[Rizzo]

.... The good news is that I decided to try the Lee 55gr. 6 cavity mold and if you follow the instructions it does a wonderful job. First try it started casting good bullets on the third fill and quickly ran through a little over 300 good quality rounds. Of course I still have to put a gas check on them while sizing, but think I will be able to manage that. Priming was a real pain. Again, it is doable and I got through it. Guess the most amazing part was the cast boolits…. currently working up a load. I'll let you know if I find something that shoots well.
Yes, I would be interested in how your loads work.

I did not have much success in accuracy with cast .223 in my AR15.
Shooting "normal" FPS ( around 2700 fps) was a disaster for me. The bullets hit all over the place.
The best accuracy that I got was when I lowered the charge below 2000 fps. Below that the action would not cycle.

Good luck to you and please post your good or bad results.

[PNW_Steve]

You fit right in with my problems. Bad back causes the 45 to become an aggravation to carry. I promised myself I would never reload 9mm or 223 because they are just too small and too much aggravation. But with age and back problems I tried the 9mm. Really amazed as it pretty much is a 38 with regard to casting and reloading. Not too many problems. The 223, however.... The good news is that I decided to try the Lee 55gr. 6 cavity mold and if you follow the instructions it does a wonderful job. First try it started casting good bullets on the third fill and quickly ran through a little over 300 good quality rounds. Of course I still have to put a gas check on them while sizing, but think I will be able to manage that. Priming was a real pain. Again, it is doable and I got through it. Guess the most amazing part was the cast boolits…. currently working up a load. I'll let you know if I find something that shoots well. Please post if you find something as well.
This Old age is not what it was cracked up to be years ago. However the experience sometimes really does come in handy.
I only load practice rounds for the 9mm. As a carry weapon it goes against the grain as I was always told to never get into a gunfight without a caliber that did not start with a 4. Old Marine and never though I would consider carrying a 9mm but guess it is better than nothing. (Darn back)

We are on the same page :)

I was the guy at the range with my 1911's telling everyone that the 9 Mickey Mouse was so inferior to .45 that I would never carry one.

My plan is also to load practice ammo and carry factory ammo.

I am going to hold off on .223 until I master 9mm.

My first instruction on safe gun hanging, shooting, gun maintenance and reloading came from a Marine Corps small arms instructor and member of the USMC Shooting Team. Unfortunately, he had quit casting bullets before I came along so I missed part of my education. Now, 45 years later, I found you all to give me some guidance. :) :)

Thank you Everyone for all of your suggestions.

[charlie b]

The 9mm has come a LONG way in terms of terminal ballistics. That's why many law enforcement agencies are going to it instead of the .40 or .45. Do not consider yourself under gunned at all with a 9mm when using good defense ammo.

Here are some pretty inclusive tests of different ammo in different pistols.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP

Unless I am shooting a LOT of 9mm it just does not make sense financially to cast for it. I figured it would take more 1000 rounds to pay for a Lee mold (2 cavity). Yes, I have to buy my lead, usually from Rotometal. So, I continue to buy bullets, usually plated or whatever is on sale.

[35remington]

An alloy with decent tin and antimony content is needed to get good fill out and hardness on 223 bullets which are so small it is a struggle to get the mould up to temp. I preheat the mould on a hot plate to help with this.

A good gascheck design of approximate 55-60 grain weight and a modest 17-19 grain charge of powder similar to 4895 used with Dacron to position the charge will cycle the gun, lock it open when empty and shoot as well as most inexpensive factory FMJ. The key to easy effective results is to run the gun as slow as can be and still operate. Forget high velocity. Speed will be in the 1900 odd fps range. This is as slow as one can go and operate the gun.

When the rifle has a 200 yard zero with full power 55 FMJ these reduced loads will hit on at 100 yards, which is handy.

The Dacron is helpful to avoid velocity variations which give function problems at the necessary low speeds. These loads only partially fill the case which cannot be avoided.