Evangelism?

[exile]

Should every Christian be an evangelist? Does God ask every Christian to be an evangelist? Does God require every Christian to be an evangelist?

If God is in complete control of all things, is evangelism even necessary?

How do verses like Ephesians 1:4-5 effect evangelistic efforts? Or do they effect them at all? Should they effect them in any way whatsoever?

Is it necessary to use words to be an evangelist? Is evangelism primarily a verbal exercise?

Or is evangelism just a way to annoy your family, friends, neighbours, co-workers, etc.,...?

What do you think?

exile

[Ickisrulz]

Should every Christian be an evangelist? Does God ask every Christian to be an evangelist? Does God require every Christian to be an evangelist?

If God is in complete control of all things, is evangelism even necessary?

How do verses like Ephesians 1:4-5 effect evangelistic efforts? Or do they effect them at all? Should they effect them in any way whatsoever?

Is it necessary to use words to be an evangelist? Is evangelism primarily a verbal exercise?

Or is evangelism just a way to annoy your family, friends, neighbours, co-workers, etc.,...?

What do you think?

exile

There are four (or five) leadership offices given to Church: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (this last pair could be one or two different offices). These offices were given to "perfect saints, work the ministry and edify the body." So no, strictly speaking, not everyone in the Church is an Evangelist.

Are all Christians meant to share the Gospel in one way or another? Yes they are. Just one example: "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." 1 Peter 3:15.

Much of evangelism is done by providing an example by the way we live. Again we can turn to Peter for an example of this instruction: "Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives" 1 Peter 3:1.

Ephesians 1:4-5 does not talk about predestination the way Calvinists understand it (i.e., God chooses who will be saved and who will be lost). It is talking about how God chose the mechanism of our salvation, our relationship to him and our blameless standing because of Jesus Christ before the world was even created. The spread of the Gospel is very necessary so that "whosoever will" can be saved.

While God has the ability to "control everything," he does not control everything. When it comes to man, God expects man to do his part. We ask God to provide "our daily bread" realizing he will not provide it if we just sit around and refuse to do the work to get it. God and man are in a cooperative relationship in everything and this includes the spread of the Gospel. God does the spiritual things in the Church while man does the legwork.

[Hickory]

Should every Christian be an evangelist?
Answer: No.

You will receive your calling from God if you have your spiritual hearing aid in your ears.
If you don't hear Gods voice, you're either not connected with God on a one on one basis or you only think you know Him.

[exile]

Thank you for your answers. I had not considered (lately) the idea of evangelist being a church leadership position.

exile

[Wayne Smith]

Consider that Christ said "You will be witnesses of me". There are no exceptions to this. We need to consider what kind of witnesses we are being - Anslem stated "Testify to Christ, if necessary use words". These are allied concepts, if my witness does not support my words the words are useless.

These are the responsibility of every Christian, not just the Church leaders. So no, not everyone has the office of Evangelist, but we are all called to be involved in the body and to testify to Christ in all of our ways. For example, would you be ashamed to have a Christian bumper sticker because of the way you drive? Consider your testimony.

[exile]

"In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him." 1 John 4:9 (E.S.V.)

[Ickisrulz]

For example, would you be ashamed to have a Christian bumper sticker because of the way you drive? Consider your testimony.

I don't think it is a good idea for a Christian to have bumper stickers, T-shirts or any other identifiers when out in public where we only offer a snap shot of our character. The reason for this is that none of us are perfect and we (or our family members) have bad days or do things that are just irritating to other people (e.g., drive too slow, drive too fast, get in peoples' way in the aisles, have our kids talk back, etc.). Why take a chance to offend? Has anyone ever been brought to Christ though a bumper sticker?

[1hole]

I'm not a "liberal" so don't put stickers on my bumpers. Don't really believe they have any positive influences on anything.

I KNOW the various "Occupy", Resist", Antifa", Greeney Weinies, "red hat bats", etc. love free speech as long as the rest of us shut up and don't disturb them. Mentally unbalanced people who go into a literal screaming rage when the see a MAGA hat also tend to mess with stickered vehicles they don't like.

[dtknowles]

I'm not a "liberal" so don't put stickers on my bumpers. Don't really believe they have any positive influences on anything.

I KNOW the various "Occupy", Resist", Antifa", Greeney Weinies, "red hat bats", etc. love free speech as long as the rest of us shut up and don't disturb them. Mentally unbalanced people who go into a literal screaming rage when the see a MAGA hat also tend to mess with stickered vehicles they don't like.

Most of the bumper stickers around here are Trump or Pro-Life. What does "liberal" have to do with bumper stickers.

Tim

[.429&H110]

Ev- angel... Greek for good angel.
Apologia... Greek... a ready answer why I believe.
First I evangelize, then I apologize.
Should take about 30 seconds.
I am the only Bible most people ever see.
The Book tells me to tell the world. I believe Him.
I promise not to persuade, or sell,
no features and benefits,
only to tell you why I am still alive.
If you ask. Book says you have to ask.
People make this so complicated, it isn't.
Keith boolit, H110, hits the 100 yard gong.
Not difficult, but a steep learning curve.
Helps to have someone explain it.
Castboolit evangelism.
Thanks for the forum.

[exile]

"But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13 (E.S.V.)

[1hole]

I am the only Bible most people ever see. The Book tells me to tell the world. I believe Him.
I promise not to persuade, or sell, no features and benefits, only to tell you why I am still alive. If you ask. Book says you have to ask.
People make this so complicated, it isn't.Keith boolit, H110, hits the 100 yard gong. Not difficult, but a steep learning curve.
Helps to have someone explain it.

Well and truly said.

If I may add:

Angel - Greek for a messenger

Gospel - Greek for good news

Making an evangelist a good messenger of the good news of Jesus, meaning his blood bought and paid for salvation for all people who will accept Him as Lord.

[exile]

"For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" 1 John 5:4-5 (E.S.V.)

[Bigslug]

Or is evangelism just a way to annoy your family, friends, neighbours, co-workers, etc.,...?


DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

Hear the atheist out: you've got your life blueprint based on your religion, and it's working for you. You're happy/successful/satisfied with your lot, and that's fine.

Now there's a chance that someone might look upon your happy existence, compare it to their own, and say "Bob's got something that's working for them. Maybe I should check that out", and that is also fine. That kind of quiet, organic success is how such things should spread.

Then enter the evangelist who has no consideration for how happy/successful/satisfied someone else may be with their chosen life blueprint - it's not THEIR blueprint, so it must be wrong - knocking on my door proclaiming they have the answer regardless of whether or not I've even felt there's a question that needs asking. That's the kind of busy-body invasiveness that tars your whole camp with a very gooey brush, and it hurts your brand considerably.

If the Perfect Being wants my attention, he's gotta start sending less flawed emissaries.

[1hole]

.... If the Perfect Being wants my attention, he's gotta start sending less flawed emissaries.

First, the reason Jesus came to save us is because mankind is fatally flawed, all of us. Only flawed people can have real empathy for other flawed people and that's the point of using flawed people for evangelism. (Well, that and there are no others to send!) Don't reject the perfect message because of your perceived weaknesses of the messengers!

Second, we wouldn't bother anyone IF Christianity was a human philosophy but it isn't, so we're honor bound to warn everyone we can of the lethal spiritual danger ahead. We sure don't have a requirement to make you listen but we do have a duty to warn you; if we don't even try, God says your blood will be on our hands. But, if we do warn you and you reject the message, your blood will be on your own hands and you will have no excuse before going to hell by your own choice. (John 3:17-18)

As Jimmy Duranti often said, "Them's the conditions that prevail!"

[dtknowles]

Move yourself
You always live your life
Never thinking of the future
Prove yourself
You are the move you make
Take your chances win or loser
See yourself
You are the steps you take
You and you and that's the only way
Shake, shake yourself
You're every move you make
So the story goes

[exile]

God did send a perfect emissary, He sent His Son to die on the cross for my sins, and for yours.

And whoever said I'm happy, successful or satisfied? The Lord Jesus was well acquainted with sorrows as are those who call upon his name.

Finally, you may not be able to relate to my faith, but I can certainly relate to your atheism, after all, I was an atheist for much of my life.

exile

[.429&H110]

Nagging is poor evangelism. As you say, Bigslug, annoying.
Selling features and benefits isn't evangelism at all.
Pride is a sin- God forbid that I should boast.
You have to ask before I can answer.
When you got married, had a baby, didn't you have to tell everybody?
When I was baptized, I had to tell everybody. Sharing the joy.
Should everyone get married, have children, be baptized?
Probably not. Works for me. YMMV

[PNW_Steve]

There are four (or five) leadership offices given to Church: apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers (this last pair could be one or two different offices). These offices were given to "perfect saints, work the ministry and edify the body." So no, strictly speaking, not everyone in the Church is an Evangelist.

Are all Christians meant to share the Gospel in one way or another? Yes they are. Just one example: "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." 1 Peter 3:15.

Much of evangelism is done by providing an example by the way we live. Again we can turn to Peter for an example of this instruction: "Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives" 1 Peter 3:1.

Ephesians 1:4-5 does not talk about predestination the way Calvinists understand it (i.e., God chooses who will be saved and who will be lost). It is talking about how God chose the mechanism of our salvation, our relationship to him and our blameless standing because of Jesus Christ before the world was even created. The spread of the Gospel is very necessary so that "whosoever will" can be saved.

While God has the ability to "control everything," he does not control everything. When it comes to man, God expects man to do his part. We ask God to provide "our daily bread" realizing he will not provide it if we just sit around and refuse to do the work to get it. God and man are in a cooperative relationship in everything and this includes the spread of the Gospel. God does the spiritual things in the Church while man does the legwork.


Thank you for your answers. I had not considered (lately) the idea of evangelist being a church leadership position.

exile


+1 Thank you all for the discussion. Particularly Ickisrulz, thank you for a very well put and thoughtful response.

[EDG]

Please be aware that many do not care what your faith tells you to do and you are not welcome.



First, the reason Jesus came to save us is because mankind is fatally flawed, all of us. Only flawed people can have real empathy for other flawed people and that's the point of using flawed people for evangelism. (Well, that and there are no others to send!) Don't reject the perfect message because of your perceived weaknesses of the messengers!

Second, we wouldn't bother anyone IF Christianity was a human philosophy but it isn't, so we're honor bound to warn everyone we can of the lethal spiritual danger ahead. We sure don't have a requirement to make you listen but we do have a duty to warn you; if we don't even try, God says your blood will be on our hands. But, if we do warn you and you reject the message, your blood will be on your own hands and you will have no excuse before going to hell by your own choice. (John 3:17-18)

As Jimmy Duranti often said, "Them's the conditions that prevail!"

[dverna]

Ev- angel... Greek for good angel.
Apologia... Greek... a ready answer why I believe.
First I evangelize, then I apologize.
Should take about 30 seconds.
I am the only Bible most people ever see.
The Book tells me to tell the world. I believe Him.
I promise not to persuade, or sell,
no features and benefits,
only to tell you why I am still alive.
If you ask. Book says you have to ask.
People make this so complicated, it isn't.
Keith boolit, H110, hits the 100 yard gong.
Not difficult, but a steep learning curve.
Helps to have someone explain it.
Castboolit evangelism.
Thanks for the forum.

You don't post much but you nailed this "gong" really well.

Thanks,

[Hogtamer]

There is something known as the Great Commission recorded in Matthew 28: 18-20. Might be call Jesus' famous last words before his ascension. ...."Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
As disciples of Christ we have our marching orders. How we carry them out is left to us and the Holy Spirit.

[Bigslug]

First, the reason Jesus came to save us is because mankind is fatally flawed, all of us. Only flawed people can have real empathy for other flawed people and that's the point of using flawed people for evangelism. (Well, that and there are no others to send!) Don't reject the perfect message because of your perceived weaknesses of the messengers!

Second, we wouldn't bother anyone IF Christianity was a human philosophy but it isn't, so we're honor bound to warn everyone we can of the lethal spiritual danger ahead. We sure don't have a requirement to make you listen but we do have a duty to warn you; if we don't even try, God says your blood will be on our hands. But, if we do warn you and you reject the message, your blood will be on your own hands and you will have no excuse before going to hell by your own choice. (John 3:17-18)

As Jimmy Duranti often said, "Them's the conditions that prevail!"

I reject the message because it isn't perfect, and I reject the messengers because they can't comprehend that. How can a fatally-flawed creature be made by a perfect creator? If your god is all knowing, all seeing, and all powerful, then there is ZERO point to this preliminary existence you claim is a necessary trial for the perfect second realm of heaven; the divine fingers could be snapped, and the perfect post-rapture realm could simply BE, already filled with the grovelling suck-ups the insecure god needed to make to stroke his own ego (can't think of any other reason why he'd bother).

Nope, we've got a Darwinian world of suffering and struggle. If there is a god that created that, it is NOT a god of the goods you're selling, and that god is probably more than a bit of a feminine hygiene product that I - by his very design - do not have any time for - so take those pamphlets and get off my lawn!

Them's the conditions that prevail.

[exile]

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel, ha, ha,...

exile

[Blackwater]

Evangelism was indeed derived from the Great Commission, but more than that, it derives from the necessity of getting all to know the lord. Some, like Slug, are so deeply steeped in nihlistic cynicism that they are incapable of receiving the light. They just don't want it. God gave them the free will to accept or reject it, of course, but He ALSO outlined the consequences of rejection, and they aren't pretty. Everyone has to believe as they will, and perhaps the hardest part is accepting the things we cannot truly understand. But really, that's not nearly the hurdle we often imagine it to be. We know and have seen His power many times. Is it such a great leap to have faith in the rest of what He's told us? I'm just a dumb country boy, but when someone proves themselves time and time again, even if other more cyincal types criticize them, I'll stay faithful with the proven ones, and let the declaimers go their own way. It just makes sense to this pretty rational ol' country boy. YMMV of course, but mine won't.

[.429&H110]

Bigslug, you're angry.
I get Jehovahs Witnesses littering my lawn,
fewer have come since I witnessed my faith to them.
I invite them in, we all need water in this desert.
I invite them to my church, they won't come.

Blackwater, thank you for that, I'll kill this thread with 2 Cor 5:20 ESV

Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

"Might become"
help me Lord amen.

God wrote us this love letter, this owners manual for our souls. Read it.
America was founded on it.

[exile]

Bigslug, you're angry.
I get Jehovahs Witnesses littering my lawn,
fewer have come since I witnessed my faith to them.
I invite them in, we all need water in this desert.
I invite them to my church, they won't come.

Blackwater, thank you for that, I'll kill this thread with 2 Cor 5:20 ESV

Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

"Might become"
help me Lord amen.

God wrote us this love letter, this owners manual for our souls. Read it.
America was founded on it.

You might kill the thread but then again, you might save someone's life too.

exile

[1hole]

God loves Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons (and non-believers) too, so Christians have an obligation to show His love to them. Showing love does NOT mean we have to pretend their errors may be worth hearing; showing a Godly love means we should give them straight responses without denigrating them as evil people. I firmly believe most of us do that.

[Bigslug]

Bigslug, you're angry.

And why not? And add frustrated while we're at it. Remember we're answering the OP here.

It's one thing to be the salesman for a brand new car that might contain some defects, or to conceal or talk down the flaws of a used one.

In the case of evangelism. . .Number one, I haven't even stepped onto the lot, or stopped to look at the "for sale" sign in the window, so basically an evangelist is a commercial for a product I have no need for (on the order of maxi pads to a male audience), that's interrupting my TV show. Number two, any objective viewer will see that the car in question is a rusted out Model T, that's been crashed into by a semi, and is also on fire. This thing is obviously flawed to the point that it's dangerous to even PUSH, let alone get in and drive, yet the salesman is telling me to "Look at this brand new Ferrari!"

So yeah, it's a grim frustration to me that so many in the world can't tell a burning Model T from a new Ferrari. Maybe they've been staring at "The Light" from the fire for so long that it's fried their retinas. All I can do is point out the facts and let them continue wasting their time how they want to. But people who feel it's their DUTY to get me to climb into that flaming wreck with them for a road trip that's supposed to last to the end of my days? Stand by to be resisted with teeth and fingernails. We'll BOTH be happier if we never meet.

[dtknowles]

:-D and enough characters to post this post.

[dtknowles]

Evangelists, worse than a robo call. We should have a do not knock list like the do not call list.

[1hole]

... Stand by to be resisted with teeth and fingernails. We'll BOTH be happier if we never meet.

You have something of a rage problem. You speak loudly but, sadly, I doubt that many Christians ever speak to you about anything.

[Bigslug]

You have something of a rage problem. You speak loudly but, sadly, I doubt that many Christians ever speak to you about anything.

Fair enough. I was social-distancing WAY before it was cool. Evangelist Christians are but one higher justifying tier of of my general human-avoidance strategy. I've long been thinking about having a T-shirt made up that says "I don't know you. I'd probably like to keep it that way.":mrgreen:

[1hole]

Fair enough. I was social-distancing WAY before it was cool.

Sooo - it isn't Christians, as such, that bother you but people in general?


I've long been thinking about having a T-shirt made up that says "I don't know you. I'd probably like to keep it that way.":mrgreen:

Cool shirt idea.

People vary. Some folk are pricks, some folk are intellectual lumps; both are meaningless to me but I can still be civil even to them. But some are the nicest and most interesting folk I know, they are well worth knowing. Of course other folk have similar experiences and values as me so I hope to fall into everyone's third category ... and, if I'm successful or not, living that way keeps ME happy too! :grin:

It took a long time for me to learn there is more than one reason we're told to love our "enemies"; I've noticed that it often drives them nuts! It also releases pointless strifes in my own heart ... and does me no harm at all. Perhaps you might try it.

[JohnChrysostom]

Should every Christian be an evangelist?
Answer: No.

You will receive your calling from God if you have your spiritual hearing aid in your ears.
If you don't hear Gods voice, you're either not connected with God on a one on one basis or you only think you know Him.

Well Said

[JohnChrysostom]

And why not? And add frustrated while we're at it. Remember we're answering the OP here.

It's one thing to be the salesman for a brand new car that might contain some defects, or to conceal or talk down the flaws of a used one.

In the case of evangelism. . .Number one, I haven't even stepped onto the lot, or stopped to look at the "for sale" sign in the window, so basically an evangelist is a commercial for a product I have no need for (on the order of maxi pads to a male audience), that's interrupting my TV show. Number two, any objective viewer will see that the car in question is a rusted out Model T, that's been crashed into by a semi, and is also on fire. This thing is obviously flawed to the point that it's dangerous to even PUSH, let alone get in and drive, yet the salesman is telling me to "Look at this brand new Ferrari!"

So yeah, it's a grim frustration to me that so many in the world can't tell a burning Model T from a new Ferrari. Maybe they've been staring at "The Light" from the fire for so long that it's fried their retinas. All I can do is point out the facts and let them continue wasting their time how they want to. But people who feel it's their DUTY to get me to climb into that flaming wreck with them for a road trip that's supposed to last to the end of my days? Stand by to be resisted with teeth and fingernails. We'll BOTH be happier if we never meet.
So you are calling the bible a dangerous burning model T and lumping it in with some evagelist annoying you at your door? I think you are projecting. Christians actually have the lowest crime rate and the lowest crime rate neighborhoods, societies countries etc. The further you go back the more our nations were Christian and the crimes of today were nonexistent. Liberals & Atheists (same thing) are the Dangerous burning trash fire of crime disease, torture & mental illness today. Many older folks who are God haters don't consider themselves "Liberal" but they are, they agree more with liberals on fundamental issues & pull a lot of the same evil, criminal, demented or lude & immoral actions which actually victimize people All while pretending to be victimized. the only difference is one might look more clean cut. I'm really Glad My generation Destroyed The atheist & Feminist cultural Marxist movement.

[Blackwater]

I reject the message because it isn't perfect, and I reject the messengers because they can't comprehend that. How can a fatally-flawed creature be made by a perfect creator? If your god is all knowing, all seeing, and all powerful, then there is ZERO point to this preliminary existence you claim is a necessary trial for the perfect second realm of heaven; the divine fingers could be snapped, and the perfect post-rapture realm could simply BE, already filled with the grovelling suck-ups the insecure god needed to make to stroke his own ego (can't think of any other reason why he'd bother).

Nope, we've got a Darwinian world of suffering and struggle. If there is a god that created that, it is NOT a god of the goods you're selling, and that god is probably more than a bit of a feminine hygiene product that I - by his very design - do not have any time for - so take those pamphlets and get off my lawn!

Them's the conditions that prevail.

Slug, your thinking is very narrow and constrained. God made man to have a will of his own. It seems very logical that a true God would not want mere mechanical expressions of worship and praise, but the genuine thing that can emanate ONLY from those who have made the CHOICE to follow and worship Him. But somehow, I don't think you're really after a real understanding of God, but only what you think is "a little fun" trying to promote doubt and antagonism toward Christianity and Christians. That's YOUR choice. You will answer for it one day, just as the rest of us will be judged by our behavior. I hate to see an intelligent person take such a route, but ... as was given to you by God himself, you have that free will, and can decide those things only for your own self.

But have you ever wondered why all the naysayings have been unable to counter, or even to mitigate the growth of faith? It's because atheism and so-called "agnosticism" are weak and illogical if you consider ALL the evidence involved. But you have to decide whether to take an honest look at these evidences, and you certainly appear to be very antagonistic against doing that, or of ever really doing that. I am sorry to see you choose as you have. It could be so different, and your life and attitude and outlook could be so very, very different, and you could be so very much happier and more satisfied. But ultimately, the choice will always be yours, and yours alone. I pray you will see the light before your life's end.

[Blackwater]

Evangelists are great WHEN THEY KNOW AND UNDERSTAND AND CAN INTERPRET THE BIBLE, AND EXPLAIN ITS MEANINGS, AND INTERRELATE ALL ITS PROVISIONS INTO A UNIFIED WHOLE, SO THAT ANYONE CAN UNDERSTAND IT. But those are few and far between. A common situation encountered is when someone comes to light and is emotionally moved by it, they may, without really knowing or even having really studied the Bible, go out and basically babble and quote some scriptures (often erroneously) and turn the undecided off by their behavior.

We need a good evangelist who can explain the Bible and its teachings so anyone can understand the principles and factors involved, and bring real edification to us, more generally. Billy Graham is perhaps the best evangelist we've ever had in the USA. He was "on fire" for the Lord, but it was a very controlled and calculated delivery of pertinent and essential info that made his sermons so penetrating to so very many people's lives and hearts. I would like to think we'd see his like again, but .... I'm not holding my breath until that happens. He was "the real deal," and in spades!

[nikonuser]

most of the best known evangelists of the last 40 years have how do you say, simply been doing it for the collection plate tally, and to hide what they were doing.

[Ickisrulz]

Evangelists are great WHEN THEY KNOW AND UNDERSTAND AND CAN INTERPRET THE BIBLE, AND EXPLAIN ITS MEANINGS, AND INTERRELATE ALL ITS PROVISIONS INTO A UNIFIED WHOLE, SO THAT ANYONE CAN UNDERSTAND IT. But those are few and far between. A common situation encountered is when someone comes to light and is emotionally moved by it, they may, without really knowing or even having really studied the Bible, go out and basically babble and quote some scriptures (often erroneously) and turn the undecided off by their behavior.

We need a good evangelist who can explain the Bible and its teachings so anyone can understand the principles and factors involved, and bring real edification to us, more generally. Billy Graham is perhaps the best evangelist we've ever had in the USA. He was "on fire" for the Lord, but it was a very controlled and calculated delivery of pertinent and essential info that made his sermons so penetrating to so very many people's lives and hearts. I would like to think we'd see his like again, but .... I'm not holding my breath until that happens. He was "the real deal," and in spades!

You described a Teacher, not an Evangelist. An evangelist delivers the simple Gospel message and then new Christians are taught the details by a Pastor/Teacher.

[.429&H110]

Please remember that Peter wrote you must be asked before you can answer.
Try this on...
Most people don't need lighthouses. But if you are sailing down the coast at night and you see one, you are glad to know where you are. Not lost in the dark anymore. You can take comfort from your GPS, but the lighthouse marks the point.
And so don't hide your lamp under a bushel.
You are the only lighthouse for miles and miles.

[Bigslug]

Slug, your thinking is very narrow and constrained. God made man to have a will of his own. It seems very logical that a true God would not want mere mechanical expressions of worship and praise, but the genuine thing that can emanate ONLY from those who have made the CHOICE to follow and worship Him. But somehow, I don't think you're really after a real understanding of God, but only what you think is "a little fun" trying to promote doubt and antagonism toward Christianity and Christians. That's YOUR choice. You will answer for it one day, just as the rest of us will be judged by our behavior. I hate to see an intelligent person take such a route, but ... as was given to you by God himself, you have that free will, and can decide those things only for your own self.

But have you ever wondered why all the naysayings have been unable to counter, or even to mitigate the growth of faith? It's because atheism and so-called "agnosticism" are weak and illogical if you consider ALL the evidence involved. But you have to decide whether to take an honest look at these evidences, and you certainly appear to be very antagonistic against doing that, or of ever really doing that. I am sorry to see you choose as you have. It could be so different, and your life and attitude and outlook could be so very, very different, and you could be so very much happier and more satisfied. But ultimately, the choice will always be yours, and yours alone. I pray you will see the light before your life's end.

You know Bee-Dubya, my original reply to this thread was directed at the unwanted annoyances of evangelists, and you reply with unwanted, annoying evangelism. Can we consider my point made?

[Blackwater]

Nope. Not at all. Your grandiose view of yourself and your "opinions" is glaring.

You make a statement, and THEN expect nobody to counter it, and that everyone should meekly accept your word as the "last word," and the absolute truth? My, my, my! You sure have an inflated view of yourself and your opinions, and what their effect ought to be in any debate/exchange. But my friend, it just t'ain't so! Your opinion is your opinion, and nothing more, and your beliefs are your beliefs are yours alone, and nothing more. Who do you think you are, trying to determine everyone's "truth" FOR them??? They have to find their own truths, and it is rather obvious that you've never really been interested in truth, but merely creating a stance for you that is apart from that of others. I hope you enjoy being lonely, because I suspect you have a whole LOT of that in your future.

And BTW, we're all SUPPOSED to be here for the give and take, and NOT to just declare the end-all be-all answer for others. I'd have thought you realized that, what with your "superior intellect" and all??? You're no different from all the other disbelievers who have never really sought the truth. You just enjoy "feeling" superior to others. That's all. But tragically, you're not superior at all, in any way. You're just another lost soul who has never even wanted to find the truth, even if it was staring you right in the face. So be it. Even God won't deny you the right to disbelieve or deny. But really, you have to ask yourself a question if your mental acumen is really so profound, and that question is, and always will be: "Am I truly happy and satisfied with the answers I've chosen for myself?"

We Christians are quite happy and satisfied with the answers we've found, but you disbelievers and deniers are always showing how dissatisfied and "antsy" you are about the answers you've chosen to go with. Declare what you may, one can never really lose sight of these facts. You and all other deniers betray yourselves in so many, many ways! And you think you can hide your real intent and motivations from us! What a pipedream you're living. And all you have to do is humble yourself before the Lord, and accept the wondrous gift He has made possible for you! But you cannot receive that gift unless and until you humble yourself before Him, which I suspect may well be a chief reason you've never done it. You're simply full of fear that if you did that, someone might make fun of you, or that you'd become one of those "bible thumpers" that make such fools of themselves sometimes. Your imagination is the only thing keeping you from coming to the Light. You might try dropping your imagination, and considering and really delving into the REAL reasons for belief that exist all around us, including right in front of your eyes, and inside your heart of hearts. But it's still your decision. And yours alone. I pray you choose wisely.

[1hole]

Amen Black!

Anyone jumping into an ongoing discussion of Christian works and then objecting to a rational response makes me suspect the questioner isn't as satisfied in his position as he thinks he is.

Is Slug really as independent and certain as he wants us to believe? I mean, if he seriously objects to the presence or words of Christians he wouldn't bother to read or post here, or care at all what anyone here says. But, that obviously isn't the truth is it ???

Therefore, your actions speak much louder than your words so I (we!) can happily say, "Hang in there Slug, the Holy Spirit is clearly working on YOU!" :)

[Blackwater]

Amen! Some of the finest Christians started out as devout atheists. C. S. Lewis is but a single example. Maybe Slug will find the Truth one day, or maybe it'll find him. I certainly hope so. He's a congenial sort, or so it seems. He'd be someone that would likely be fun to talk with if he weren't so mockishly counter to Christianity. Usually, I just smile when I read his posts. He's looking for truth, and doesn't even really realize it. I just hope he finds it.

[Thundarstick]

Don't you think we should use some judgment in our evangelizing?

Mat 7:6

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

[smithnframe]

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

[Blackwater]

Thunderstick, you're right, of course, but don't we have an obligation to God and to ourselves, to respond to those who mock us, and try to persuade others that our faith is empty? Slug and a few more show up from time to time trying to do that, but like all deniers, they'll always be unsuccessful, because they can never overcome a certain knowledge that our faith is based on MUCH more evidence than they can even bring to any argument on the issue. They always try to "win" by limiting any considerations to the existential factors, but man is much more than just a collection of atoms and molecules gathered together in a big lump. He has more means of perception than science can or will accept. That's science's job - to study the physical things of this world. But man's comprehensive abilities allow him to perceive things beyond the mere existential, and this can be denied until the last day of earth's existence, but there are far too many instances of people knowing things that are unknowable, and doing things that were undoable, to give credence to any denier's wishful claims. There is more to this earth and to man than merely the atoms and molecules that make us all up. There is a presence here that we Christians call the Holy Spirit, and there is, we devoutly believe, a God in the sky and His Son the Christ. Deniers won't accept that, and that's their choice, and they and noone else has a right to decide that for them. Even God won't change it. I believe God wants souls who've CHOSEN Him, and not just a collection of creatures or souls that He controls like puppets. He simply wants to be chosen. What a simple thing that is, and yet, how revealing. If we choose Him, we get to go to Heaven and be with Him. If we reject Him, there's nowhere else for those to go but to be with Satan and his minions. All deniers have heard this, I believe. They just don't take it seriously, mostly I think because they just don't want to. After all, it may inhibit some of their favorite means of having "fun." What a tradeoff! They've traded Paradise for a little fun, that will pass away as soon as it's over. But everyone HAS to make a decision, one way or the other, whether they'll accept the truth, and the Love of a very loving God, or not. And some just choose not to accept it. I feel sorry for them, but there is nothing you or I or anyone else can do to change that. It's just as God set it all up to be, and He knows MUCH more about what He's doing that we ever will. I'm inclined to accept it as He made it, and gave it to us, and let it go at that. All deniers will be dealt with justly, but we won't have a hand in it at all. Judgment belongs to Christ, and NOT to us!