30 Carbine

[StrawHat]

Seeing the thread on the 358 Long Range rifle reawakened my desire for a bolt action oddity.

When I proposed this idea to my cousin he muttered something about the dumbest idea he ever heard. Six years later and I am still thinking of trying to build a bolt action chambered for the 30 Carbine.

Why, I think it might be a good cast bullet rifle and it could be a good walking around rifle.

The case head is about the size of the 22 Hornet so I thought I would start there and spin a decent barrel in place.

Any ideas or hopefully experience with a bolt gun in 30 carbine?

[Wally]

I think it is a good idea. I have a Ruger .30 M-1 Blackhawk that I like very much. As I do reload, I like the fact that I don't have to search for ejected cases as would be the case with an S/A carbine.

I set two 16 ounce steel cans at 250 yards on a freshly disked field. Using a rest, I was amazed as to how accurate my Ruger was, without a scope. How nice it would be to use a bolt action rifle with this caliber sporting a good scope. At one time I did have a BSA scope on the Ruger, but it didn't hold up to the recoil, which is not all that much. I use a Lyman 130 grain RN cast bullet with 5.0 grains of W-231. It is plenty good enough for plinking and is quite accurate as well.

[Salmon-boy]

Oddity? I think it's a great idea.....

Then again, I'd like a Rolling Block Carbine in .30M1 too!

[NSP64]

been thinking about a TC Encore barrel in 30 carbine launching heavy boolits sans 300 whisper.:drinks:

[deltaenterprizes]

I have a Marlin leveraction in .30 carbine,I havent shot it yet,should be sweet shooter!

[longbow]

I have no idea why but I have always thought a .30 carbine would be a nice little cartridge in a rifle. I've never owned one but always thought it would be a great little plinker and as you say "walking around rifle".

Cheap to shoot, easy to load for and a huge selection of boolits.

Count me in as another supporter ~ I think it is a good idea too.

Longbow

[Phil]

CZ 527 Hornet conversion?

Phil

[StrawHat]

CZ 527 Hornet conversion?

Phil

I am not familiar with the CZ but if chambered for the Hornet, it should work.

I will have to search for a photo of the CZ, I like the Ruger but it is not the only Hornet available.

Anyone have an idea for rifling twist? probably 130 or 150 grain boolits.

[StrawHat]

I have a Marlin leveraction in .30 carbine,I havent shot it yet,should be sweet shooter!

Another gun I did not know was ever made.

[heathydee]

I have a 30 Carbine built on a Brno Fox 22 Hornet . It shoots 160 gn cast boolits dropped from a CBE mould at about 1600 fps . Barrel is a 1 in 14 twist , 20 inches long and left nice and thick . The conversion was not real hard . Fit and chamber the barrel then cut the extractor slot. I converted the standard magazine but was never really happy with it so I made two new ones that hold six rounds each. Ejection is a problem that can not be solved easily because the 22 Hornet extractor is meant for a thicker rim than the 30 Carbine round . If the bolt is worked briskly the empty will eject most of the time but if the bolt is manipulated slowly the empty will remain in the loading port .

[scb]

Another gun I did not know was ever made.

Yep not like 1894 or 336. Full stock, clip fed (not m1 clip) had a sister carbine in .256 Winchester. Short throw lever. Can't remember model #.

[Scrounger]

Yep not like 1894 or 336. Full stock, clip fed (not m1 clip) had a sister carbine in .256 Winchester. Short throw lever. Can't remember model #.

Marlin Model 62

[StrawHat]

I have a 30 Carbine built on a Brno Fox 22 Hornet . It shoots 160 gn cast boolits dropped from a CBE mould at about 1600 fps . Barrel is a 1 in 14 twist , 20 inches long and left nice and thick . The conversion was not real hard . Fit and chamber the barrel then cut the extractor slot. I converted the standard magazine but was never really happy with it so I made two new ones that hold six rounds each. Ejection is a problem that can not be solved easily because the 22 Hornet extractor is meant for a thicker rim than the 30 Carbine round . If the bolt is worked briskly the empty will eject most of the time but if the bolt is manipulated slowly the empty will remain in the loading port .

heathydee,

Glad to hear a bolt action 30 exists. If you had it to do over, what would you change?

Any pictures?

[kir_kenix]

Ive always thought about building a .30 carbine on a savage action (easy barrel change). A .223 boltface would have to be pretty darn close to the .30c. I think the 150-160 grain boolits at 1500 fps would be a fantastic walkabout rifle.

I'm going to go look at a savage, and see if its a viable conversion.

[Bret4207]

What you're dealing with is basically a warm loaded 32-20 rifle load. In my Savage 23 I've had the Lyman 311316 up to 1700+ fps. That FN/GC designs comes in a little over 120 grs in my alloy. WAY TO MUCH FOR SQUIRRELS!!! The 30 Carbine brass is much stronger and should be longer lasting than 32-20. Just remember this is a high pressure load, not like the old BP 32-20 loads. One of those little Remington Model 7's, a Ruger Compact, or maybe a good '93 or '95 Mauser would work, although ALL would be far larger than needed. An action about the size of a Carcano would work, but where you'd find something like that, or the old SAKO action for the 218 Bee/222 class, is the big question.

[kir_kenix]

Went and fooled around with a .223 savage and a .223 Remington. It looks as tho a .30 would feed from the box magazine without any modifications.

The boltface is ever so slightly larger, but I would bet that it could be modified (welded recut and refaced?) or perhaps the minor difference would not make a difference? I'm going to call my dad and see if he has a Adams and Bennet barrel laying around that would be made to work. Maybe I can get something cobbled together after the new year if i can come up with the supplies.

[heathydee]

Pictures as requested . I converted this rifle about fifteen years ago and have learned to live with the ejection issue . Accuracy is nothing to write home about ; 1.5 to 2 MOA . It has taken several feral goats and the odd pig over the years .I would consider its performance as adequate on animals of this size . One recovered projectile had travelled through about 18 inches of goat . The animal was facing me and I was about 50 feet higher at a range of about 90 yards . The boolit entered the right side of the critter's neck , ran down the edge of the spine and was found in the right ham.
The one in fourteen twist stabilises this boolit sub- sonically for those who are interested in those things . I use a pure lead boolit for reduced velocity loads . It comes out weighing about five grains heavier than the WW boolit.
For a while I was using 85 grain J word bullets meant for 30 Lugers etc. 2300 fps was achieved with a case full of Winchester 296 . Devastating performance on smaller game.
If a conversion is contemplated it is important to remember that the 30 Carbine round headspaces on the mouth of the case . I screwed up the first chamber I cut by excessively polishing it , which rounded off the sharp corner that is necessary to hold the cartridge back so that the firing pin strike does not drive the cartridge forward and cause a misfire .

[9.3X62AL]

Another Model 62 owner checking in. It is more accurate by accident than any U.S. Carbine EVER was on purpose. It's a Microgroove barrel form, and has 1-20" twist just like the 30 Carbine. It runs both the Lee Soup Can and the Lyman #311316 (@ .311") to 1800 FPS+ with accuracy equal to j-words, about 1.5" to 1.75" at 100 yards with the stock open irons. With better sights than my unmagnified 53 year old eyes, it might be better--gotta scope this one to see what it can really do.

My guess would be that sales of the Marlin Model 62 were sunk by availability of cheaper milsurp carbines. With prices of those spray-and-pray critters getting ridiculous, the Model 62 might be a viable option now. As mentioned above, the 256 and the 30 Carbine are little more than updated 25-20 and 32-20, these older calibers made great walking-around rifles, and either bolt or lever platforms would be quite useful.

[lawboy]

Or buy a CZ 527 in 7.63x39, load it with 160-180gr lead bullets over 9-10 grs Unique and have at it. No magazine problems, 1450-1600 fps no problem at all. Low noise, low recoil, low pressure loads. Gun will easily shoot 1.5 to 2 moa.
Size those bullets to .313 though. Many moulds will throw large enough for this.

[StrawHat]

Or buy a CZ 527 in 7.63x39, load it with 160-180gr lead bullets over 9-10 grs Unique and have at it. No magazine problems, 1450-1600 fps no problem at all. Low noise, low recoil, low pressure loads. Gun will easily shoot 1.5 to 2 moa.
Size those bullets to .313 though. Many moulds will throw large enough for this.

Buy a factory gun????? Next, someone will say buy factory ammo!:shock:

Have you no soul??????:groner:

The cousin mentioned something like that when I first broached the topic. Right after he said "That has to be about the second dumbest thought you have ever had."

[kir_kenix]

I wasn't able to come up with a suitable doner barrel to do the project myself yet. I came up with 1:8 and 1:10 barrels (the 1:10 might not be suitable, as its been chambered for a 300 whisper, and I might have to take too much off to chamber it in .30 carbine). I'll ask around, and see if I can come up with a 1:12 or 1:14 barrel, but I'd hate to put much of any money into the project. Wish Adams and Bennet had 1:12 blanks, but I havn't found any around.

Anybody got a cheapo barrel that could get rechambered to .30? Anyway, I'll try throwing something together sometime, and working up some loads when i can find the parts.

[heathydee]

I put a few rounds downrange yesterday. I had not shot the rifle in a year or so and this thread re-kindled my interest in the rifle . There was a strong and gusty right to left wind . The sixth group has 4 shots . The speed was up on what I recall too . Velocity readings were taken 10 feet from the muzzle.

[kir_kenix]

Cool rifle, and it looks to be a pretty decent shooter. I'd like to get something like this built up soon. Other then the extraction problem and headspace issues did you run into any other unforseeable problems with your build? I might have access to a Sako Vixen, but I think that might get converted into a 25-222, as per the wives instructions.

It would be nice to be able to load the carbine from 1200-1700 fps with middleweight .30 boolits. I think I might go 1:12 on my gun, just because it will be easier to come up with then a 1:14.

What does your finished Brno weigh? I'd like to build a 5.5-6lb rifle complete with 2.5x scope. Looking like that might be tough to do on the Savage with a wood stock.

[heathydee]

It weighs about seven and threequarter pounds. The main reason for this is the the thickness of the barrel . I left it about .625" thick at the muzzle . If I was doing it again I would try for a one in twelve twist as it would stabilise longer boolits better at lower speeds. Just as an aside ,I am currently playing with a 94 Winchester , trying to develop "cat-sneeze" loads. A 225 grn NEI boolit gave me a five shot group of under two inches at 55 yards at 820 fps using 5 grns of Clays. I believe the Winchester has a one in twelve twist . The next step is to up the speed to about the 1000 fps.

[dk17hmr]

To bad the Savage 40 barrel isnt threaded in. That would work perfectly, accu-trigger, single shot, varmint stock, stick a bull barrel 30 caliber barrel on it....to bad. In theory the barrel could be bored out and rifled. But the pressure probably wouldnt work with the bolt the way it is now.

[kir_kenix]

Got me a loaner gun, and I'm trading for a 1/12 barrel. I'm hoping to score a .30 chamber reamer on the cheap somewhere, and I need to find a .30 throater so I can seat them 160-180 boolits waaay out there.

I'm pretty sure that a .223 boltface will work for this project. Everyone I've talked to said that the size difference should be fine. I'm trying to do the whole project without putting out and actual cash, but it might not work out that way.

Anyway, hopefully I'll have some actual results and photos after the new year.

[357maximum]

[QUOTE=kir_kenix;449025]Got me a loaner gun, QUOTE]



I sure hope you meant doner gun...or someone may be maaaaaaaaaad, or pleasantly surprised depending on the angle of the dangle.:twisted:

[Buckshot]

................TC uses a 10" twist barrel for it's 30 carbine chambered Contenders. I've thought of putting a 10" twist barrel on my Ruger BH to see what happens.

.................Buckshot

[deltaenterprizes]

I just read some info on the 327 mag and it is close to a 30 carbine!

[Mugs]

TC made the 10" in 2 twists. The older 6 groove were 1=14 the newer 8 groove are 1-10. I use a RCBS 30-165 out of a 10" TC with a stiff load of AA#9. 1550 fps. for a 200 m. ram load very effective.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Larry Gibson]

I'm of the opposite end of the stick here. I'd love to have a .30 Carbine 20-22" barrel for my TC Contender but I've no use for the heavier bullets. Thus I'd prefer a barrel with a 18 or 20" twist. This would be great for 90 to 125 gr bullets which seem to me to be the right ones for a walk about plinking/small game rifle. Velocities would be in the 1800-2000 fps range and accuracy should be excellent. Given my experience shooting M1 Carbines with such cast bullet loads to 300 yards I'd have no problems out to 200 yards with such loads. Especially with a fast elevation adjusting (BDC) scope in the 4X range.

I've long considered rebarreling my Mini MKX 7.62x39 with a .308 barrel with 16-18" twist for the same reasons. The fast 9.5" twist is too fast for the lighter cast bullets I prefer to shoot through it. I could probably push a 115-130 WFN bullet to 2200 fps with excellent accuracy. That would make a very good small game load or even smaller deer load. If I ever shoot the barrel out I may just do it. Right now the GB C312-150-WFN does verywell in it as does the Lee C312-155-2R.

Oh well, the slow twist .30 carbine barrel is the one I really want.

Larry Gibson

[DanM]

You guys might like this link: http://www.jamescalhoon.com/
Mr. Calhoun has a cartridge called the 19 Badger that is based on the .30 carbine case. He builds his rifles on the CZ527 action. Not really a cast bullet cartridge, but interesting....