Best Progressive Press for Old Winchester '94 calibers?

[FromTheWoods]

Which progressisve press is best for loading these calibers:
.38-55, .32-40, .32 WS, .30 WCF, .25-35 WCF?

I have a Dillon 550B. It is great for loading handgun and jacketed rifle loads, though, I find when I'm loading cast for my Winchesters that I'd like another die station to accommodate a neck expander die or a Lee Factory Crimp die.

The second stage on the Dillon is the powder position--I'd prefer it to be for expanding the neck. Some calibers, I'm expanding after the powder is in the case--not too comfortable doing that.

When I do include the expander die in the process, then I don't have room to seat and crimp in two steps.

Is the 550B as good as can be had for these calibers, or is there a press that is more suited to loading these calibers?

(I'm hoping my questions will not cause a generic Dillon vs. Hornady tussle. We've all seen plenty of those.)

[GabbyM]

I'm a little confused.
The powder die on the Dillon is used to expand the case neck when desired. Is their some reason you aren't doing it this way? If Dillon doesn't offer dies in all those calibers I'm sure you can find someone who makes them.

[No_1]

For the bottle neck cartridges, the dillon does not expand the neck because the powder die fits over / around the mouth of the case. The straight wall rifle cartridges do expand in the 2nd station just like the pistol cartidges because the powder die goes inside the case.

R.


I'm a little confused.
The powder die on the Dillon is used to expand the case neck when desired. Is their some reason you aren't doing it this way? If Dillon doesn't offer dies in all those calibers I'm sure you can find someone who makes them.

[porkchop bob]

Consider loading in two stages. In the first stage size and prime in station 1 and place the M-die in station 3. In the second stage do everything else. The extra step allows one to double check primer seating. This requires two tool heads. I found this routine to be more relaxing.

Hope this helps. Bob

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I load all my calibers with my Dillon 550B when I am up north in Illinois. When I need under 50 or so for some special rifles I get out the old Green single stage.
Pistol calibers all get expanded at the powder hopper ... Some Rifle calibers have to be done earlier or later if you are using an M die but there are 4 stations on a 550B so that is no problem. Just move the powder hopper over to the 3rd slot and plop a boolit there after powder and before advancing. Have your rifle case expander installed on the second hole.

[FromTheWoods]

I was not aware that the powder die/hopper would function properly in the 3rd position. --I'll have to go take a look.

I do still have my RCBS single stage press. I was trying to avoid using it in the process, but that might be the solution to the problem.

Another solution I looked for was to find pistol powder funnels that would work to expand the rifle cases. There have to be some out there: yes?

[FromTheWoods]

Checked my press. The frame is in the way. Doesn't look as if the Powder system will work in the 3rd position without adapting. . . . Or without working the powder measure/drop by hand. I'd rather not mess with my powder drop system. (Maybe if I study it a bit and replace some parts, then maybe I would do it. But I'm not going to bend/cut original parts to make them fit the 3rd position.)

Some of you must load with a progressive that doesn't take monkeying with to load a five-die-station system.?!!! --Or is that how I'm going to get rich, marketing one for cast oldies?

[runfiverun]

the powder die wont work in stage three.
but if you get the adapter for a normal powder dump you can put the case flare die in station two then dump manually in three and seat in 4
then crimp on your single stage. what i do, as i like to crimp separately anyways.

[John Boy]

FtW ... The only caliber I load on a 550B is 45 Colt. For everything else:
220 Swift ... 25-20 ... 38-40 ... 308 ... 30-30 ... 7.5x55 ... 38-55 ... 45-70 and 45-75. I use the Lee 3 Hole Turret Press, a Lee Auto Primer and the Lee Perfect Powder Charger and the Universal Decapper because after fireforming - I don't resize cases unless I change bullets and then only the necks. All are charged with smokeless except for the 38-55 ... 45-70 and 45-75 which are charged with original gunpowder. Each set of dies has it's own 3 Hole Turret.

A Lee Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure added will make the process faster ... http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1227056048.2377=/html/catalog/powhan1.html

[Firebird]

The Hornady LNL, the Dillon 650 and the RCBS Pro-2000 all have 5 die stations, one more than the 550.
I have a Pro-2000, and the first station does the sizing and sends the old primer into an easy to empty cup under the press, the second puts in the new primer and does the neck expansion (I also prefer to use the Lyman "M" dies here), the third station holds the powder measure (and is part of the frame of the press, the other 4 stations are on the easily replaced die plate) the fourth station is for bullet seating and the fifth always holds a Redding Profile Crimp die to put on a nice roll-crimp. This doesn't leave room for a powder check die, so you have to be careful; lots of hints on the internet about mounting lights and mirrors to let you look in that case a little easier to make sure the powder level is at the right place.
The Pro-2000 is more expensive now than when it was introduced, but it still comes with the extras (bullet tray, bins for empty cases and loaded rounds, allen wrenches for necessary adjustments, and an APS strip loader so you can load up whatever primer you want into the empty strips) that make it a better deal than a Dillon. And price out a caliber change, much cheaper and much easier to do on the Pro-2000 than a Dillon.

[FromTheWoods]

Yeah--Right off, I rigged a mirror and a light on my Dillon. Felt uncomfortable not seeing powder in the cases. (New eye glasses fooled me yesterday. Thought my mirror had a problem!)

I'll take all of your suggestions and sift through them. I can either incorporate my single stage press into the process, or I can research the LNL and the 2000. I've read about the 650; haven't considered taking that route yet.

Many of you swear by that M-die. I'll read up on those too.

Thank you all for your suggestions and shared knowledge.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saw the presses at work on YouTube. Interesting that the red and the green ones use the left-hand for both case and bullet.

One concern about the Pro 2000 was the powder station loosening, dropping less or no powder into the case. That information was from five years ago. Has RCBS addressed this problem?

More thought on the subject brought me to: Since I have so many accessories already for the 550B, why not consider the 650? Maybe save a chunk of money by not switching over to another brand? (Faulty memory--Are the shell plates, powder funnels, primer tubes interchangeable?) I know--I am getting lazy asking you that instead of looking it up.

Further thought has led to: If I'm going to invest in another press, why not just purchase another 550B and enjoy leaving one for small primer rounds and use the other for large primers? It's getting late; punchy; maybe not the best time to ask questions.

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest you "incorporate my single stage press into the process". That is what I have done when loading numerous cartridges on my Dillon 550. There are several reasons; I like to inspect the case after sizing, I like to clean the primer pocket after sizing and If FL sizing I prefer to clean the lube off before further loading. Thus I most often do the first sizing, NS or FL sizing, on the single stage press, clean the lube off, clean the primer pockets and then inspect the case (cracked or split necks, signs of incipient head seperation, debri inside the case, etc.). The Dillon 550 is then set up as follows for loading cast bullets: Station 1; the M-Die and priming, station 2; powder charging (the Dillon powder funnels usually allow a generous belling of the case mouth), Station 3; bullet seating, station 4; crimping. If I'm using a dacron filler the case is removed at station 3 and the filler put in and then reinserted for bullet seating. This system works extremely well, gives quality loads and decent production rate.

Larry Gibson

[FromTheWoods]

Larry,
Your system sounds simple and safe.

I too use a filler for a couple of my loads.

I'd best stop commenting for the night.

[mike in co]

consider brass prep'ing and then loading( as was mentioned earlier).
i clean my brass, then de-cap with a lee universal die(for rifle), size, and mouth expander(mostly lyman m dies) on a 550.
( if desired clean uniform primer pocket, trim to length, deburr neck)
this brass is then cleaned and polished.
most rifle brass is hand primed as an inspection step, but could easily be done on the 550.
then back to the 550, (prime)( a m die if not previously done) powder drop, seat bullet, crimp or just remove neck expansion.


some time my brass is done in very large lots, and i may change load/boolits. if i add a cast boolit to brass sized for a jacketed bullet i add a lyman m die in the first position.

yep it is not how the dillon is designed to be used but it works for me.

mike in co

[Firebird]

One concern about the Pro 2000 was the powder station loosening, dropping less or no powder into the case. That information was from five years ago. Has RCBS addressed this problem?


Both the LNL and Pro-2000 come with Uniflow powder measures, never been sure what the exact deal is between Hornady and RCBS on this issue. Not sure if Hornady's LNL comes with both pistol and rifle drums for the powder measure or not.
I have never had a problem with the powder measure, even dumping just 1.8 grains of Titegroup for my 32 Magnum target loads, but I was taught when using an allen wrench you put in the long leg when tightening, and the short leg when loosening; so I've never stripped one of the heads of the adjusting screws either. I know that the old RCBS style linkage will take a while to get adjusted properly when changing from a short pistol case to a long rifle case; and you need to get it right so that the powder measure drum gets fully rotated and dumped, but the linkage doesn't get bound up either. I understand that RCBS has switched to the Hornady style powder measure linkage, which looks to be much simpler than the original RCBS style linkage, and RCBS even sells it separately for use on other presses as it only requires having a case under it to work the linkage.

[rbuck351]

I would think you could have m type powder funnel/expander dies made for the calibers you mention, although the 25-35 may be getting a little delicate. Should work with ball powders though. Have them made like the straight wall expanders.
Seems like this would be an easy fix and not too expensive and you could load as normal.

[9.3X62AL]

Ponsness-Warren Metal-Matic........can accomodate all rifle cases to 375 H&H, five stations that can operate in whatever order you want. Not fully progressive, but a unique turret design that I like a lot (I have the P-200). It uses single-stage tooling and shell holders. FWIW.

www.reloaders.com

[Springfield]

44-40 is a bottle neck case and the Dillon expands the neck in the powder station(#2) Pretty sure it did the same with my 30-30 but it's been awhile. I have also done 223 and I have never seen a powder die the went on the outside of the case like you described. Maybe you should call Dillon.

[shotman]

from what i have seen on my dillon 650 it looks like that fl sizing in a rifle case would put more pressure on the press than I would like. I know that they make it for that but that is alot of pressure on the shell plate if you get a tight or light lube case. I have seen some that takes alot of force to get back out of the fl die. The shell plate is not that strong 1in away from center bolt. I resize my 460 on another press then finish on the 650.

[rehoppe]

44-40 is a bottle neck case and the Dillon expands the neck in the powder station(#2) Pretty sure it did the same with my 30-30 but it's been awhile. I have also done 223 and I have never seen a powder die the went on the outside of the case like you described. Maybe you should call Dillon.


plus one on the Call Dillon. I think all of us are not quite up to date maybe. My old 450 upgraded to a 550 does not have the 'safety' rod to return the Powder slide so the Old case activiated powder dispenser would work in the #3 position. You would still have to 'seat and crimp' in the 4th however.

My powder funnels for rifle are outside 'over the top' style, only my pistols have the internal belling option.

If you can hold off there seems to be a modified Hornady LnL AP on the way.
The manual for it is on their site already but nobody seems to have touched one yet. It called the EZJector system. Hopefully not the PITA that the previous ones were.

[No_1]

Gents,

With the proper return springs on the "old style" Dillon powder measure that was designed for the 550b, you do not need the rod for the powder dispenser to return to battery. With the new style (which has the extra safety on the dispenser bell crank) you will need the rod hooked up to get proper function.

I have owned a 550B for about 15 years and have loaded many 1000's of straight wall as well as mega-1000's of bottle neck rifle cartridges on it. I just opened / inspected 15 of the 25+ caliber conversions (old as well as new) in my stash and find that all the bottle neck cartridge conversions use a powder die which fits on / over / around the outside diameter of the case mouth (a reverse funnel if you will) and all the straight wall rifle and pistol cartridges have a powder die which will bell the mouth of the case during the powder charging process.

There may be some caliber conversion for bottle neck cartridges that use a powder die which fits inside the case mouth / expands the case mouth during powder charging, but not in my stash.

The only way I can figure to do what you want is to use the dillon as designed with the exception of removing the powder-charged cartridge from station #2, bell the mouth on a single stage with an "M"- die, place it back in station #2, rotate the shellplate to station #3 to seat the boolit, then crimp in station #4.

Robert

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Both the LNL and Pro-2000 come with Uniflow powder measures, never been sure what the exact deal is between Hornady and RCBS on this issue. Not sure if Hornady's LNL comes with both pistol and rifle drums for the powder measure or not.

This isn't entirely true. The Hornady comes with the LnL measure, which, while it's operation is extremely similar to the Uniflow, comes with a much larger powder hopper, so it lasts significantly longer than the Uniflow before needing to be filled up.

Unfortunately, while it operates the same, neither the Uniflow nor the LnL measures accept parts from the other measure.

That said, the LnL case activated powder drop bases will operate a Uniflow if you buy an operating arm from RCBS. (Try to order it and they'll give it to you.)

Regards,

Dave

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Which progressisve press is best for loading these calibers:
.38-55, .32-40, .32 WS, .30 WCF, .25-35 WCF?

I don't load for any of these calibers, but based on the rifle you mention, I'm guessing these are straight wall cases.

I have a Dillon 550B. It is great for loading handgun and jacketed rifle loads, though, I find when I'm loading cast for my Winchesters that I'd like another die station to accommodate a neck expander die or a Lee Factory Crimp die.

I'm thinking either add a single stage like the Lee Classic Cast or a Rock Chucker to the works would be a solution, but if it were me, I'd upgrade to a 5 station press.

I'd consider the RCBS Pro 2000, the Hornady LnL or the Dillon 650. Since you're used to a manual advance press, you may find you don't like the automatic advance feature. Of the three I mentioned, I believe, but am not sure, the RCBS Pro 2000 offers manual advance as well as automatic advance, depending. I also believe they offer both primer tube type loading and strip type loading nowadays as well. Something to consider.

The second stage on the Dillon is the powder position--I'd prefer it to be for expanding the neck. Some calibers, I'm expanding after the powder is in the case--not too comfortable doing that.

The Hornady LnL operation is this:

Stage 1 - resize/deprime
Stage 1.5 - prime - primes between die stations, on the upstroke, gives you good feel for the primer being seated
Stage 2 - expand neck/add powder or just expand neck, depending on your choice of how to set it up - sounds like you'd like the second option
Stage 3 - add powder or powder check with powder check die - sounds like you'd be adding powder
Stage 5 - visually check powder and add bullet
Stage 6 - crimp die if used

When I do include the expander die in the process, then I don't have room to seat and crimp in two steps.

Yes, a 5 station press would provide this for you.

Is the 550B as good as can be had for these calibers, or is there a press that is more suited to loading these calibers?

I would think a 5 station press, any of those I've mentioned above, would provide you what you're looking for. The Hornady because it's a bushing design for die installation, gives a better runout with bottle neck rifle cartridges that helps a good bit at long ranges (600 yards plus) but I'm not sure if you'd gain any significant advantage for the straight walled cases and lead bullets you've mentioned.


Even though I'm a Hornady owner, if I were you, I'd look strongly at the RCBS Pro 2000 as well as the Hornady LnL and Dillon 650. I can't say if you'd prefer a manual advance over the automatic advance or not, but you might and I suspect you would like both the Hornady and RCBS powder measure offerings (They're easier/faster to use once you add the micrometer adjustment than a Dillon measure is.)

If you think you might add a casefeeder, then consider the automatic advance presses, as the manual advance presses do not benefit nearly as much from the addition of a casefeeder. Right now, based on what you're saying, you want more capability die wise, rather than speed and that points more to the RCBS Pro 2000 if it's still offered in manual advance than the automatic advance.

On the other hand, Hornady does give away those free bullets when you buy the Hornady LnL, making it a very sweet deal.

On the other hand, if you have a lot of caliber conversions for your Dillon, you may want to consider keeping it and using a single stage addition.

Ah, the pleasures of upgrading/adding equipment to solve a problem......

Enjoy, nice problem to have.

Regards,

Dave

[FromTheWoods]

I think the direction I will take is to use my single stage to size and deprime the case. Then, use the 550B for the remaining steps.

In the mean time, I'm going to try to find pistol powder funnels that will work in the number two position--a call to Brian Enos, after I get my list made, should answer some of my questions. There have to be some out there that will do the job. If I can't find any, I like the idea of taking a batch of funnels to a machine shop, and letting them do their magic.

I've decided to not purchase another press for myself. Instead, my younger brother will be getting a nice surprise birthday present in the mail this week--a 550B. Spreading reloading pleasure--to use one of his favorite sayings--"is a good thing."

I do appreciate the input you all have shared with us here.

[mike in co]

I think the direction I will take is to use my single stage to size and deprime the case. Then, use the 550B for the remaining steps.

In the mean time, I'm going to try to find pistol powder funnels that will work in the number two position--a call to Brian Enos, after I get my list made, should answer some of my questions. There have to be some out there that will do the job. If I can't find any, I like the idea of taking a batch of funnels to a machine shop, and letting them do their magic.

I've decided to not purchase another press for myself. Instead, my younger brother will be getting a nice surprise birthday present in the mail this week--a 550B. Spreading reloading pleasure--to use one of his favorite sayings--"is a good thing."

I do appreciate the input you all have shared with us here.


nothing wrong with doing the size /deprime first, but it will go much faster on the dillon. get an extra tool head, put a die in number one and go to town, just keep feeding them in and let then fall in a bin when done.
i do not use pull thru button dies if i can avoid it. it is the easist way to get a bent neck. hard to get accuracy from a bent neck.
i put a lee universal decapping die in number one and my sizing die in two, and a lyman in number three( if i need an expansion).

[Patrick L]

If I understand things correctly, a Dillon 550 has the powder measure at station two? (I don't own one so I'm not sure.)

If so, I would recommend the course you already suggested, ie resizing separately. You could then expand at station one with a Lyman M die and then all of the rest of the steps happen in the normal sequence.

I do this myself, even though my press is a five station (I have an older RCBS Ammomaster progressive.) My reason is I prefer to size the cases, then remove the case lube, and then run through the rest of the steps with dry cases.

PS What a great present to give to your brother!!

[arclight]

Looking at the powder funnels, I see no reason why you couldn't take a .38 SPL powder funnel and cut it down on the lathe to be the proper length for 38-55 or a cartridge like 35 Rem.

You'd have to part off the top, cut a new groove with the parting tool, and remake the funnel with a tapered reamer.


Arclight

[Catshooter]

I have a Rockchucker for a single, a Piggyback for all pistol and an RCBS Ammomaster for, well, for whatever.

The Piggyback has a shorter stroke than the Ammomaster, thus faster production by working at the same speed if you follow me.

The Ammomaster will load progressively from .32 to .460 Weatherby and with the single stage conversion will go from .25 ACP to .50 BMG.

Since both the Piggy and Master are five station I can add in a Factory Crimp die or not as desired. Very verstiale set up for me.

I like green!


Cat