Help with wrinkled bullets

[Bantou]

Ok guys I need some help. I’m having issues with wrinkled bullets out of a Lee double cavity 225gr RN .45 acp mold. I have cleaned the hell out of the mold with hoppes followed by comet followed by hot water and dawn. Lead temp is about 650 and even with the mold hot enough to smear the sprue, the bullets are still coming out wrinkled. I’m using straight clip on wheel weight lead. I’ll post more photos below. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200301/2f17c5b84854a7b346f8015c50d27423.jpg


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[Bantou]

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[Bantou]

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[Bantou]

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[Bantou]

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[Bantou]

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[Bantou]

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[Camper64]

Following, I have that same issue with the 356-125-2R mold and running 50/50 wheel weights/pure and a temp of 750.

[Dusty Bannister]

Cold mold, either pre-heat or cast fast and do not stop to look at the castings. If you are ladle casting, leave it in the pot while cutting the sprue. If using a spoon, get a ladle.

[Peregrine]

You need to run lee moulds really fast, they cool down quick. Could also try bumping up the temp of the melt at the same time.

[DHDeal]

I typically run my alloy @ 750° and cast fast. I start to hold the mold to a small fan when they get really hot, but I don't slow down too much. Try that with a MP brass mold and you have to pay really close attention or you may get tinning. An Accurate Molds aluminum mold will let you keep casting.

I would let the alloy get in the 725° - 750° range and your wrinkles will go away, assuming the mold and sprue plate are hot.

When I started casting for handguns, I had similar issues. The big BPCR iron molds I had used for some years needed hot alloy, but they were so easy to use. When I got the aluminum handgun molds it was like I'd never cast before. Run them hot and run them fast is what worked for me, and then I learned about hot plates and life was good.

[Bantou]

I typically run my alloy @ 750° and cast fast. I start to hold the mold to a small fan when they get really hot, but I don't slow down too much. Try that with a MP brass mold and you have to pay really close attention or you may get tinning. An Accurate Molds aluminum mold will let you keep casting.

I would let the alloy get in the 725° - 750° range and your wrinkles will go away, assuming the mold and sprue plate are hot.

When I started casting for handguns, I had similar issues. The big BPCR iron molds I had used for some years needed hot alloy, but they were so easy to use. When I got the aluminum handgun molds it was like I'd never cast before. Run them hot and run them fast is what worked for me, and then I learned about hot plates and life was good.

I’ll give this a try. If I let the temp get that high I tend get a lot of tin oxide build up really fast so I have been keeping the mix below 675.


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[Bantou]

Cold mold, either pre-heat or cast fast and do not stop to look at the castings. If you are ladle casting, leave it in the pot while cutting the sprue. If using a spoon, get a ladle.

I use a ladle and leave it in the pot when not pouring. Even with molds hot enough to smear the sprue when cut, I’m still getting wrinkled bullets.


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[Bantou]

Run them hot and run them fast is what worked for me, and then I learned about hot plates and life was good.

Mine sit on an radiator style oil heater for quite a while before I start casting to get them warm. I haven’t jumped off and bought a hot plate yet. Is there really that big of an advantage to the hot plates?



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[jessdigs]

Yes, the hot plate really helps. Especially with brass molds, but I use it for aluminum molds as wellhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200302/0fbad49441d76bb9b3f41502ac0680e5.jpg

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[Dusty Bannister]

[QUOTE=Bantou;4841095]I use a ladle and leave it in the pot when not pouring. Even with molds hot enough to smear the sprue when cut, I’m still getting wrinkled bullets.

If you get smears, what are you using to lube the plate with? You get smears if you do not apply a shine of lube on the plate and you cut the sprue too soon. Not that the alloy is too hot. You will figure it out, these small aluminum blocks do not hold heat very well.

[megasupermagnum]

One thing not mentioned, is that with temperature control, there is a balancing act between sprue plate temp, and mold temp. You can get your sprue plate too hot, and smear lead, and still have a mold too cold. I use 2 stroke oil for sprue plate lube, which also keeps lead smears from sticking. I lube using the Elvis Ammo method. Since you are using clip on wheel weights, the ideal temperature is when bullets begin to haze. Genuinely frosty bullets are harder to get than most realize. Shiny bullets, which yours are, indicate your mold is too cold.

I like my temperature for a bullet like that around 700-720 degrees. There are different fluxes you can use on the lead that help with oxidation, I'm finding a couple pea size bits of wax bullet lube does just fine for me.

[mehavey]

Smearing the sprue plate does not a fully-heated/clean mold make. ;)

1. Go back and scrub the mould again w/ toothbrush/hot water/dishsoap.

2. Go ahead and preheat mould/lead pot (750° lead)

3. When opening the sprue plate, open barely enough to just "crack/break" the lead contact -- fraction of an inch. Do NOT open the plate in one swing.

4. After just breaking the initial contact, pause a heartbeat or two/then go ahead and open. That fraction of a second/contact break makes all the difference.

[Bantou]

Raising the melt temp fixed the issue.

Thank you guys for all the input!
B


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[DHDeal]

Raising the melt temp fixed the issue.

Thank you guys for all the input!
B


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We knew that it would! I see where some mention alloy temps under 700°, but I've never got one good bullet below 700°, or if I did it was after I had cut my burner off and my molds were still hot.

In my opinion a Lee mold, while inexpensive, is harder to use than a big aluminum mold as it simply can't hold on to the heat. You've found your solution and it was more heat. It's all a balance and when one particular is not right, you see it pretty quick. It's really fun (NOT) when you're casting with a 4 ganger or larger and you have one cavity that won't act right.

mehavey's opening sentence is my favorite!

[RydForLyf]

We knew that it would! I see where some mention alloy temps under 700°, but I've never got one good bullet below 700°, or if I did it was after I had cut my burner off and my molds were still hot.

In my opinion a Lee mold, while inexpensive, is harder to use than a big aluminum mold as it simply can't hold on to the heat. You've found your solution and it was more heat. It's all a balance and when one particular is not right, you see it pretty quick. It's really fun (NOT) when you're casting with a 4 ganger or larger and you have one cavity that won't act right.

mehavey's opening sentence is my favorite!

As an FYI, I cast everything with a lead pot running at 670F and below that when new ingot is added. I keep the mold at the point where it is just lightly frosting near the base. When I see that, 1 second on a damp towel pulls enough heat out to prevent it getting too bad. I do cast fast with a 6-cavity Lee mold to keep temps up. Keep the stream running constant when you're filling the mold and that has a lot to do with casts/hour and keeping enough heat in the mold to keep it just at frosting temps. I cool the sprue every third or fourth cast if it seems that it is taking too long to harden. That also keeps the casts/hour up and the mold hot.

As you've learned, mold temps matter.

[trapper9260]

For me I preheat the mold on a hot plate while I melt my alloy. I turn the heat up on my pot and also like stated to use 2 cycle oil on the parts to lube the mold ,do not need much. when the boolits are frosted then I low the heat some after. I go by what the mold tells me. Not the temp. each mold have its own mind. I use Lee molds and Lyman and brass molds.You will see the first boolits at time like the OP sees but after you get the mold up to temp it will go away as long you do your part of to have the mold hot and alloy.

[gwpercle]

Raising the melt temp fixed the issue.

Thank you guys for all the input!
B


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With a hotter Lee mould , slow count to 7 before opening the sprue and all smearing should be removed as soon as noticed , then lightly lube top of block and underside of sprue plate .
Counting to slow 7 lets the sprues harden...smearing means the sprue is still molten and has not hardened .

[Hootmix]

I had the same problem while trying out a Lyman ( .429 - 205gr ) that I adapted to my Master Caster ,, kept getting wrinkles in the nose, started a 680* ,, moved up to 725* , and cast with a " Hatred ", when the mould heated to the right temp,, the spru plate would " fall " open w/ the slightest touch making clean cuts ,, and the bullets have a slight haze,, before that had to bang hard ,and it does help to just break the spru open for the 3-4 count then dump. I poured " just " the nose of the mould ( fast ) for about 10-12 times to get the mould heated up,, as said here before " each mould is diff. "

coffee's ready,, Hootmix.

[kmw1954]

Bantou, I just started last summer and that was also with a Lee 2 cavity mold. I found that I pour and over pour to get started. Helps to bring the temp or the sprue plate and the mold up faster. I will also set the mold so that the end opposite the handle is actually in the molten lead until I lift it and it comes out clean, then it is hot!

I then watch the sprue puddle and once it changes color it should cut clean and easy. I cast until I start to see the bullets start to frost and then I turn down the heat a bit and start watching my tempo. By slowing down between the pours the mold will cool and the bullets will become shiny again.

Hope this helps some.

[fredj338]

I’ll give this a try. If I let the temp get that high I tend get a lot of tin oxide build up really fast so I have been keeping the mix below 675.


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Not much tin in clip ww so I wouldn't sweat that. Turn the pot up. I run my Lee @ 700. I cast mostly range scrap, add some clip ww if I feel I need a bit harder bullet. Check your vent lines around the nose area too. When using any alum mold, I count to 5 after the spru looks solid.

[Bantou]

Not much tin in clip ww so I wouldn't sweat that. Turn the pot up. I run my Lee @ 700. I cast mostly range scrap, add some clip ww if I feel I need a bit harder bullet. Check your vent lines around the nose area too. When using any alum mold, I count to 5 after the spru looks solid.

That’s exactly what I did. If I pour fast, the ladle helps keep the tin mixed in and waiting after the sprue hardens definitely helped with the smearing. The current issue I’m having is with the sprue plate getting too hot and creating a dimple in the sprue when cut. I have been over pouring though because I’m not used to the melt being that fluid. I imagine after I get more comfortable with the “thinner” melt and stop covering the whole sprue plate in lead, the problem will fix itself.

Regards,
B


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