H&R Huntsman

[richhodg66]

Saw a real clean on in a shop today, .58 caliber. Price was $150, but I might could deal it down.

Are these worthwhile? I don't think I have a .58 mold, are the twists of these such that they'll handle conicals or just round ball?

[megasupermagnum]

My dad has the 50 caliber. The twist is something like 1 in 35". They handle conical fine, even sabots. I don't know if the 58 is different, I had never heard such a thing. The only thing to look out for is if it has the slip in breech plug. Most were threaded. The slip in style could theoretically blow out if you had a hang fire, and opened the action. I've never heard of a real incident. The other thing is the plastic primer discs are unobtanium. The only replacement breech plugs available are from https://www.prbullet.com/. Be warned, they are not a great product, and the guy is defensive. I'm sure he knows he is turning out junk. The fix is easy if you have a lathe. All you have to do is shorten the primer holding section to match a modern breech plug like from TC. If you don't you can't extract the primer. How the guy from PR bullet ever thought that would work is beyond me.

So there it is. Other than some outdated parts, they are a good rifle. Everything else on it is an H&R shotgun. The frames must be muzzleloader specific though, as you don't need an FFL.

[longbow]

I had one when they first came out. It shot quite well though was hardly traditional.

It was a tough gun too! I accidentally overcharged it by quite a bit (I believe about 250 FFFg) with a .58 Minie in it. The muzzle flash was tremendous and the action actually broke open during recoil! No harm to the gun though!

Yes, rifling twist in mine worked with typical Minies I shot in my Zouave and Enfield Musketoon. IIRC it was 12 groove rifling and quite shallow but it worked well.

The only complaint I had was that the breech face tended to foul up then the action wouldn't close until it was cleaned. I solved that by filing a small notch on the breech face of the barrel and breech plug to allow blow by from the nipple to escape.

Mine was an early one with the push in breech plug. Later versions were screw in breech plug. That was done for safety after a reported death due to opening the action quickly after a misfire then the powder charge igniting with open action blowing the breech plug out and killing the owner.

I never had any problems with mine but sold it as I wasn't really interested in the "modern" muzzleloader. It functioned well and shot well but I prefer traditional designs... no fault of the gun.

Longbow

[longbow]

Mine used #11 caps on a standard nipple.

[NoZombies]

My dad has the 50 caliber. The twist is something like 1 in 35". They handle conical fine, even sabots. I don't know if the 58 is different, I had never heard such a thing. The only thing to look out for is if it has the slip in breech plug. Most were threaded. The slip in style could theoretically blow out if you had a hang fire, and opened the action. I've never heard of a real incident. The other thing is the plastic primer discs are unobtanium. The only replacement breech plugs available are from https://www.prbullet.com/. Be warned, they are not a great product, and the guy is defensive. I'm sure he knows he is turning out junk. The fix is easy if you have a lathe. All you have to do is shorten the primer holding section to match a modern breech plug like from TC. If you don't you can't extract the primer. How the guy from PR bullet ever thought that would work is beyond me.

So there it is. Other than some outdated parts, they are a good rifle. Everything else on it is an H&R shotgun. The frames must be muzzleloader specific though, as you don't need an FFL.

Actually, the ATF later ruled that they are 4473 modern firearms.

The earliest ones used a large flat 'firing pin' for igniting musket caps on a standard nipple in the breachplug.

I've got a 12 gauge version that's interesting to play with, but I've never really done anything serious with it.

[richhodg66]

Actually, the ATF later ruled that they are 4473 modern firearms.

The earliest ones used a large flat 'firing pin' for igniting musket caps on a standard nipple in the breachplug.

I've got a 12 gauge version that's interesting to play with, but I've never really done anything serious with it.

I've had the itch for a muzzle loading shotgun for a while now, sounds like a lot of fun.

I may go back and get this one. Don't really need another muzzle loader, but we still have a real good muzzle loader season here in Kansas, a .58 might be fun.

[mike69]

I shot my first muzzle loader deer with my grandfathers 58 cal . Still have it but haven't shot it for a long time . It has the push in breech plug for the #11 cap . WE shot both round balls and conicals in it .

[Texas by God]

I would buy one for that price for sure, especially a 58 Cal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Shawlerbrook]

Yes, the Huntsman is a 4473 gun and the Sidekick is treated as a muzzleloader. The Huntsman is the same frame as used on their shotguns. I had a muzzleloader barrel made through their now discontinued barrel program for a NEF shotgun.

[wgr]

i had one in 45cal. had a 1 in 57 twist shot minis well. didn't know they made one in 50cal.

[longcruise]

I I bought one new in the early 70's. It was 58 caliber, push in plug and #11 caps on a standard nipple. It shot very well with a Lee .578 target minie ( a flying trashcan design). My wife killed a mulie buck with the minie over 60 grains of goex ff. It dropped on the spot.

It was magnificently accurate with a .570 patched ball.

BUT, here is your warning. They all eventually shot loose in the lock up. When closed they would be quite loose. Mine got loose enough that it would frequently fail to fire the cap. A Smith "fixed" it by preening the locking lug but he predicted that it would shoot loose again and it did.

I'm pretty sure that some proper heat treating of the locking system would have fixed it.

Saw one for sale at a gun show two weeks ago for $150 and the seller became visibly excited when I picked it up for a look. It was the old style with push in plug and in perfect condition. Probably never been fired.

[nekshot]

My dad has the 50 caliber. The twist is something like 1 in 35". They handle conical fine, even sabots. I don't know if the 58 is different, I had never heard such a thing. The only thing to look out for is if it has the slip in breech plug. Most were threaded. The slip in style could theoretically blow out if you had a hang fire, and opened the action. I've never heard of a real incident. The other thing is the plastic primer discs are unobtanium. The only replacement breech plugs available are from https://www.prbullet.com/. Be warned, they are not a great product, and the guy is defensive. I'm sure he knows he is turning out junk. The fix is easy if you have a lathe. All you have to do is shorten the primer holding section to match a modern breech plug like from TC. If you don't you can't extract the primer. How the guy from PR bullet ever thought that would work is beyond me.

So there it is. Other than some outdated parts, they are a good rifle. Everything else on it is an H&R shotgun. The frames must be muzzleloader specific though, as you don't need an FFL.

I have had very good success dealing with prbullet- Mr epps i think his name is. He has an incredible amount of info free to read and from my expierence he is a top notch guy with a slick answer to the Huntsman breech issue. nekshot

[megasupermagnum]

I have had very good success dealing with prbullet- Mr epps i think his name is. He has an incredible amount of info free to read and from my expierence he is a top notch guy with a slick answer to the Huntsman breech issue. nekshot

It's not slick, it doesn't work. If you have access to a lathe, it's a 10 minute fix though.

[rbuck351]

I bought one when they first came out. It's a 45cal with the screw in plug. Shoots about 3" at 100 with the TC maxi ball. It uses a standard nipple and a # 11 cap iirc. They were on sale for $49.

[roverboy]

I've got a Huntsman .58 cal. It shoots pretty good with a patched round ball and 90 gr. 2f. I started at 60 gr. and worked up. The accuracy didn't fall off any. I tried some Minie bullets that I got with the rifle and their awful. I could throw them and get better accuracy. Lol.

[Slick Pilot]

What thickness patch did you use with that .570 ball?

Thanks.

[Slick Pilot]

What thickness patch did you use with that .570 ball?

Thanks.

[pietro]

.

I altered a .45cal Sidekick for my oldest Grandson, back when he was about 12y.o. (he's 29 now) - to use when I first took him deer hunting.

It had the screwed-in breechplug for #11 caps, which I converted to accept 209 primers for reliable ignition.

It was pretty accurate with Remington saboted .357 J-word boolits.

I would think that one in .58 would move a shooter out from under their hat upon firing, though.

.

[Geezer in NH]

The ramrod alone goes for close to the $150 on auctions.

[pietro]

.

Yep - that telescoping RR is hard to find, off the gun.

.

[megasupermagnum]

The ramrod alone goes for close to the $150 on auctions.

That is just silly. If anyone reading this needs a ramrod, and a solid rod is not long enough, you can buy extending ramrods from Knight rifles. Better yet, just buy a regular ramrod, and carry a 3" extending T handle that you can get from TOTW for the hefty sum of $4.99.

[longcruise]

I don't think 3" is enough to solve the problem with the Huntsman. Im going on memory here, but I think the Huntsman rod extended about 9".

[rockrat]

I have a 58 cal. with the push in breechplug. Someone had drilled a hole in the back of the barrel at about 5 o'clock and breechplug and threaded it. Used a Gr 8 machine screw to hold things together I would surmise to alleviate the danger of the breechplug blowing out. Mine uses musket caps

[megasupermagnum]

I don't think 3" is enough to solve the problem with the Huntsman. Im going on memory here, but I think the Huntsman rod extended about 9".

Here is some quick math that may help those who need a new rod. The original rod is a loading rod only, it can not accept a jag or other item to swab the bore. The following dimensions were taken from an original rod on a 50 caliber NEF Huntsman.

Rod collapsed- 15 13/16"
Rod extended- 23 3/16"
Distance from muzzle to rod end when collapsed in storage- 3/8"
Distance from muzzle to rod end when extended in bore- 5/8"

I should clarify, by collapsed in storage I mean the rod mounted on the gun as intended, the rod is shy by 3/8" from the muzzle. By extended in the bore, I mean when extended, and stuck in an empty barrel, the rod stands proud by 5/8" from the muzzle. Since this is a loading only rod, we do not need to touch the breech plug with the rod, we also have wasted space with the original rod, by not being at least as long as the muzzle. There is no reason a rod can not stand proud of the muzzle when stored on the gun either.

So more math, I see that the original rod extends 7 3/8", which is not all that important of a number. What is important, is that if we cut a rod flush with the muzzle, meaning 16 3/16", we will need a 6 3/8" extension to reach the breech plug and be flush with the muzzle. I also loaded a rather standard load of 70gr powder and a .490" ball. This took up 1 7/16" of the barrel. The means that with a flush rod of 16 3/6", I would need an extension about 5" minimum to load it.

So this leaves you with a few options. You could make your own extension. You could buy the 3" T handle, as well as a long 3" loading jag. You could cut a rod to extend 2-3" past the muzzle, and use the 3" T handle, which is the way I would go. You could buy a rod from Knight, but I think they only extend 3-4" or so. With the Knight rod, you would either also need a 3" T handle, or have it extend 2" or so past the muzzle.

There are lots of options besides spending $150 on a vintage ramrod, which honestly is not that great.

[Geezer in NH]

That is what the original goes for. Sure you can make due with other ways but the original rods still go for $150.
Did not say anything other than that so why bust em.

I agree they are not worth it, the one my nephew has he uses a broken down m16 rod with a button tip on it.

With a 58 1 shot is ll that you need anyway but it don't change the fact on what an original rod sells for.