Attitude at Dillon

[jim4065]

Called today to get the 550 or 650 on order and unfortunately had to ask a couple of questions to decide between the two. The young man was pleasant and helpful until I mentioned that I'd be using Lee dies. He started telling me what a mistake that was - Lee makes "throw away" dies, etc. Didn't need to hear that so I thanked him for his time and hung up. Probably should've said something but what the hell - he's their problem. I know - Sales is Sales - but it burns me up to have someone talk down the competition. Don't care about Ford or Chevy - just want to go from point A to point B. :evil:

So I called Mid-South (hate their website) and spoke to a nice lady about the Hornady LNL AP. I still owe Mid-South some more business anyway so I put one on order. They're back-ordered (all over it seems) for Hornady to finish the ejector upgrade - I can wait. Kind of a shame to have a salesman make the decision for me but that's life. The 1000 bullets helps sweeten the deal and should make up for any short comings of the Hornady. Talking myself into being happy. [smilie=l:

[mike in co]

sorry to hear of your bad experience with dillon. i have been a customer/dealer for dillon for about 10 years and have had great results with thier products and staff. i think you owe it to dillon's management to email them about your decision and why. they cannot fix what they do not know about.

mike in co

[Geraldo]

I've got no dog in this fight (blue, green, red, and orange equipment on my bench), but I offer a few observations.

Dillon talked trash about your choice of dies, so you chose not to buy from them. Fair enough, it's your money and their business, each of you can do as you choose, but because you ordered from a retailer, not Hornady, you don't know if they would have given you the same spiel as Dillon.

As for owing Dillon anything, I'd say you don't. Sure, it would be nice of you to tell them why you and your wallet went elsewhere, but would they care? The salesman tried to convince you to buy his product, which is his job. For every guy like you there are others that will buy his story. If it was a product improvement issue, maybe they would take notice, but I doubt one lost sale will change their pitch.

Congrats on ordering a new press!

[EDK]

My experience with DILLON has always been good...since about 1985.

I bought a 45 ACP SQUARE DEAL when they came out and had some problems with CCI primers and military brass with primer pockets that were not reamed quite enough. I got a new handle to replace the broken one. Later there was an up-grade and new frame and other items. I switched it to a 357 and later sold it. The next owner used it for several years and sold it at auction when he moved out of state FOR $20 OVER RETAIL!

The 550B that I got in the early '90s has served even better. Other than the free updates, the only wear problems have been on the powder drop (and mine is the old model) and the slider on the priming system. After 20 plus years of switching the primer system around, I recently said "to h--- with this" and bought another 550B...set it up for large primers...and will use the old one for 357 magnum.

The closest I got to attitude at DILLON was when I ordered the first 550B. He asked if I wanted dies and I said I had LYMAN carbides...he strongly urged me to re-consider and when I still said NO, he said "you will be calling within a few days of receiving the machine to order them"....and he was right. I use them in 357, 44 and 45 ACP. The new style seater and crimpers with inserts are even better.

I have called in with problems; got them diagnosed for adjustments or parts replacement; and parts were here FREE within days. DILLON has always taken good care of me. I'm sorry you got a "monday morning level of service," but my experience has always been good.

PS I haven't used the LEE dies, so I can't comment on their quality. YOU DO NEED somewhat specialized dies in a progressive press. My old LYMANS didn't work worth a d--- in the 550B! BUT I had good service in a LYMAN single stage or turret press for almost 30 years with them.

:castmine::redneck::Fire:

[jimkim]

It would be interesting to see if he feels the same way about Redding dies. I haven't thrown my Lee dies away yet. When I do I will probably replace them with more Lee dies. I don't have anything against other companies. I own stuff from them as well. I just like my dies.

[Harry O]

This was probably because at one time, not all Lee dies would work on Dillion equipment. The threaded portion of some of them was too short. It seems that the portion the dies threaded into was thicker on the Dillion presses than on the Lee presses.

I don't know if Dillion changed anything, but I recall seeing that Lee slightly increased the length of their dies in recent years.

I have a lot of dies from just about every manufacturer (including Herter's). The Lee is usually no better and no worse than any other. However, he may have been steering you away from Lee for good reason -- he just did a poor job of it.

[jim4065]

Under reflection (and with a cooler head) I probably should have called back and talked to someone else. It was his combination of arrogance and condescension - but as has been pointed out, perhaps he had good reason. I've had one failure in a Lee die but don't feel qualified to judge between die sets. My problem is that I have about two dozen sets of Lee dies - way too many to replace. It seemed like he was saying his press wouldn't (or shouldn't) work properly with another makers dies.

Dillon may be the biggest maker of progressives (though I doubt it) but they don't have to act like Hertz. My piddly little purchase means nothing here, but I wonder how many others have been turned off by their attitude? As was pointed out, it's not fair to compare dealer personnel to factory employees. Mea Culpa. Got a nagging suspicion that I'd feel better having bought the Dillon but it's a done deal. Didn't want another Dillon/Hornady thread. They're probably both great presses - my comments were directed towards an attitude.

[mike in co]

there are two issues with dies on a dillon press.

one , has been pointed out....lee dies mayeb too short, or yo ucan try putting the lock nut on the bottom of the tool head.

the second issue is die opening. redding pro serries and lioon dies have a belled mouth to assist in getting the case started into the die. dies without this feature MAY allow the case to hit the die rather than enter the die. this is not fun .....
so dillon has a reason for reccommending dies, but not for bad mouthing the compitetion.......

call them jim....they do listen.

mike

[August]

I have, and use Lee dies.

Compared to Dillon dies, they are throw aways.

[shotman]

Dillon has ONE thing and ONE thing only MONEY Y ou will be fine with the LnL. I bought a D 650 BEFORE I looked at the cost of changing cal. It is a good press but not that good. Lee dies are just as good as Dillon and you can buy 3 sets of Lee to one Dillon. Someone here said turn Lees lock nut upside down, that works great. rick

[Leadforbrains]

I ordered a Dillon XL650 from Dillon over the phone. The salesman asked if I needed dies and I replied no and that was the end of that. I got my 650 and couldn't be happier. I did order a set of Dillon .223 dies with a caliber change kit a month later. The Dillon dies are nice, and I also own dies from about every other manufacturer including Lee.

[No_1]

+1 on what Mike said in post #8. The 550b that I gave to my older brother had a slight alignment issue that made it difficult to use dies that did not have a belled mouth. When loading on it I would have to slightly touch the case to get it aligned for the size die in station 1. The one I still have has no issues with any dies I use in it. The one I gave to my brother a few years back as a Christmas present has yet to leave the box (I think) but he is on the way to using it very soon....

R.

[Springfield]

Personally I like how the Dillon dies come apart for cleaning without taking out the whole die and losing your settings. I use mostly Dillon, RCBS cowboy and a few redding and LEE dies. They all work, some just give you fewer problems in a pregressive. The guy was probably just trying to make your life easier. Although a couple of times I have called I have detected a little bit of a superior attitude. I just figure they are very proud of their product and let it slide. I love my 2 550's.

[wiljen]

It's all about what you get used to. If you start out with the LNL you'll never miss not having a 550. Both are solid and well made and will serve you for many years with a little care. Be happy with what ya got.

[jonk]

My belief is that:

All cast O frame single stage presses are created equal.
All progressive presses aren't.
The dillon is probably the best progressive but you're paying a lot for the name.

Dies on the other hand- I'll load a set of ammo up on Lee dies, you load one on Dillons, Redding, Hornady, take your pick. Look at the loaded rounds. Which was loaded on which? Shoot said rounds. See any difference? No. Case closed.

Buy the cheapest that will do the job you want and need but don't assume the cheapest- or the most expensive- is ever worst or best as the case may be.

I'll not own a dillon, I've loaded a lot of rounds on them at a buddy's house but don't think they are worth half the price. To ME. I don't criticize him for getting one but I second your choice of a Hornady- I've not used them but the reviews I've read are all positive.

[waksupi]

If you have problems with arrogant people on the phone, from any company, try this. Go to your local library. Most have copies of the Thomas Catalog. This has the listings of virtually every company in the US. Moreover, the telephone number for the President and CEO are listed. A call directly to thier office generally gets fast results. And they usually wonder how the devil you got thier direct number. Don't tell them. ;o)

[Marc2]

Hey, that reminds me of a shoe salesman I ran cross several years ago. Picked out a pair of Davenport loafers. When we went to the counter to check out, he asked me if I had any shoe trees. What the H E double toothpicks is a shoe tree I asked. He showed me a shoe tree and I said no thanks. "Id rather not sell you these shoes if you're not going to take care of them" he said. I just walked off without a word.
If you talk to that guy again ask him if he use to sell shoes. Maybe hes made his way to Dillion after all these years.

Marc

[mike in co]

My belief is that:

All cast O frame single stage presses are created equal.
All progressive presses aren't.
The dillon is probably the best progressive but you're paying a lot for the name.

Dies on the other hand- I'll load a set of ammo up on Lee dies, you load one on Dillons, Redding, Hornady, take your pick. Look at the loaded rounds. Which was loaded on which? Shoot said rounds. See any difference? No. Case closed.

Buy the cheapest that will do the job you want and need but don't assume the cheapest- or the most expensive- is ever worst or best as the case may be.

I'll not own a dillon, I've loaded a lot of rounds on them at a buddy's house but don't think they are worth half the price. To ME. I don't criticize him for getting one but I second your choice of a Hornady- I've not used them but the reviews I've read are all positive.


you need to go back and read.
there is a difference in dies used on progressive presses.
i know you will not listen to me, but maybe you should ask redding why they have an entire line of pro dies that are designed to be used on progressive presses ??
no its not about the end product, it is about ease of use in progressive presses.

i agree with you, its percieved value. for me it worth my money to have two dillon presses, one in small primer and one in large and for your money, no dillon. its all about personal values.


mike in co

[94Doug]

I am always suprised when I hear such poor salemanship. Dillon lost a sale, because some guy should not be working the phones in the first place. I agree there is nothing so insulting than that kind of pitch. Maybe Dillon should know that it did happen.

[exile]

As my boss used to say, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." Maybe a little of that could be true here.

exile

[jonk]

you need to go back and read.
there is a difference in dies used on progressive presses.
i know you will not listen to me, but maybe you should ask redding why they have an entire line of pro dies that are designed to be used on progressive presses ??
no its not about the end product, it is about ease of use in progressive presses.

i agree with you, its percieved value. for me it worth my money to have two dillon presses, one in small primer and one in large and for your money, no dillon. its all about personal values.


mike in coThen we have no beef; as I said to ME it isn't worth it. To you it is; that's fine.

Regarding dies not being able to be used in various progressive presses- methinks that this is: 1. A ploy by dillon to get you to buy their overpriced dies that do the same job (press design excepted) as cheaper offerings by RCBS or Lee, and 2. Stupid design on the part of Lee, not to make their dies fit any competitor's press.

[richbug]

Odd of Dillon to trash Lee's dies when Dillon still hasn't figured out that the 9mm Luger is a tapered case...

[Russel Nash]

At first, I went with Dillon dies for my 550. Then I started reading the Brian Enos forums, and got educated.

Now I am using a combination of dies:

Station 1: Evolution Gun Works/Lee Undersized die

Station 2: Dillon proprietary powder through die

Station 3: Redding Micrometer Adjustable Bullet seating die

Station 4. Lee Factory Crimp Die

Just for this year alone, I shot about 7,300 rounds of 9, .40 and .45 for USPSA, IDPA, and steel competitions matches.

That's not including practice, sighting in, and load development

I figure for next year, I will blast through about 10,000 centerfire rounds, all loaded on my 550, and the 650 I still have to set up.

All my Lee dies work just fine on my 550.

Some of the newer 1" lock rings I have gone ahead and drilled and tapped for a set screw so the dies wont creep around.

As far as alignment issues with the sizing die in station #1, you have to adjust the paper clip contraption for each caliber of ammo, 9mm push it in a little farther, .45 ACP pull it back a little bit.

[PatMarlin]

All I have is LEE and Dillon dies on my shelves. I use LEE's in my 550b all the time. I use the thinner Dillon nuts on the older lee's. They all work for me, and most of the time I prefer the LEE's for some reason.

I think that salesman was an ass, and should be reprimanded. Dillon should know about it. I remember asking Dillon about using LEE dies years ago and the salesman said no problem if you can get your nut on the shorter dies.

[PatMarlin]

I use a combination as described by nash also.

[mike in co]

Then we have no beef; as I said to ME it isn't worth it. To you it is; that's fine.

Regarding dies not being able to be used in various progressive presses- methinks that this is: 1. A ploy by dillon to get you to buy their overpriced dies that do the same job (press design excepted) as cheaper offerings by RCBS or Lee, and 2. Stupid design on the part of Lee, not to make their dies fit any competitor's press.


not hype...the entry into the die CAN BE AN ISSUE. not always but enought that two companies make special dies for progresives. no one said you CANNOT use other dies, its just some dies do work better.

not stupid of lee...they were making dies before dillon built the 550. they have made changes to thier dies since.

[rbstern]

Nothing wrong with a rep talking up his company's products. But that Dillon rep ventured into a place a good salesman tries never go: Away from the truth. As soon as he said Lee dies are "throw away," he demonstrated a lack of credibility. Jim had experience contrary to the Dillon rep's words, and it cost Dillon the sale. Rightly so.

[Heavy lead]

Nothing wrong with a rep talking up his company's products. But that Dillon rep ventured into a place a good salesman tries never go: Away from the truth. As soon as he said Lee dies are "throw away," he demonstrated a lack of credibility. Jim had experience contrary to the Dillon rep's words, and it cost Dillon the sale. Rightly so.

Yup, it was a mistake.

[Russel Nash]

They're customer service reps for Pete's sake!

They probably get paid peanuts.

Maybe 10 bucks an hour if they're lucky.

Yeah, technically, they are representatives of Dillon, but ya never know, this guy might have been hired just last week, thrown into some wham bam impromptu training class for a few hours which could seem highly probable this time of year with Christmas coming and all the Chicken Little's buying and hoarding everything gun and ammo related, that Dillon sales might also be through the roof too, so they hired a bunch of new guys to handle all the new calls.

Possibly???

And you also never know if the call was recorded for "quality assurance purposes" , or if the guy on the line, if he was a trainee, if he knew that his phone call was being listened to by his supervisor.

Or heck! Maybe his supervisor was right there and told him point blank to poo poo the Lee dies in order to plug the Dillon dies.

If the Originator of this thread thinks that the call might have been recorded for "quality assurance purposes", he can always call Dillon back up and ask to speak with a manager or supervisor.

Maybe the supervisor can then go back and listen to the recorded conversation and decide if the customer service rep was out of line poo poo'ing the Lee dies.

Who knows??

You might be able to leverage that into some free Dillon schwag, or extra bend over backwards customer service support.

[remy3424]

Plus 1 to Nash's take. Have you guys ever worked the phones???? It's not a job for most, dealing with people all day and not making a comment that someone takes the wrong way or just saying the wrong thing...Give the guy and Dillion a pass on a comment you didn't agree with. You are buying the press, not this fella for his opinions, we all have enough of our own already(opinions). Just my opinion.

[Throckmorton]

If you remember the name of that non-salesman,I really feel you should call Dillon and get as high up the chain as you can and state what happened so that they can reactify the situation.For sure this is not sop there,or never has been in the times I"ve called there.
This post re-affirms what I have always felt...you piss off a customer and they will tell EVERYBODY they can,but you treat them right and they may only tell 1 or2 people,but they become a repeat customer..THAT is the important part.

[PatMarlin]

If you remember the name of that non-salesman,I really feel you should call Dillon and get as high up the chain as you can and state what happened so that they can reactify the situation.For sure this is not sop there,or never has been in the times I"ve called there.
This post re-affirms what I have always felt...you piss off a customer and they will tell EVERYBODY they can,but you treat them right and they may only tell 1 or2 people,but they become a repeat customer..THAT is the important part.


This thread has already told hundreds, and it will soon be into the thousands. I agree Dillon management needs to know. All it takes is one idiot unprofessional sales person, and this guy fits the bill in every way, to screw up sales.

He made the number one mistake in sales. If it was my company, I would want to know pronto. I'd have a serious talk with him, and if he can't handle his job of phone sales after the talk he needs to be shown the door.

Tella customer his idea is junk, and limit the products versatility by saying such a thing is killing several sales birds with one stone.

I say off with his head... :mrgreen:

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

This isn't the first time Dillon's personnel have been arrogant and condescending. Their personnel and non-competitive pricing is a major reason I no longer own a Dillon 550 and consider Dillon last when I purchase reloading equipment.

I agree with the original poster. Buy from someone you're happy with and don't bother looking back. I own a Lock N Load and can tell you from personal experience it's world's ahead of the 550 I had before it. You'll not regret it. Hornady, unlike Dillon, has shown a serious inclination to steadily improve their progressive reloading product. This is evidenced from Hornady's previous generation to the LnL I bought to their soon to be latest offering. Each generation has added improvements in design and quality. Their customer service and warranty service is excellent. I know, I've called to order parts on my now 10 year old machine with thousands of rounds loaded. I spent a few minutes on the phone and they sent the parts for free. Even had me in the data base with both my current address and my previous address. They were polite, quick and ID'ed the issue quickly (worn out springs) and got them out to me in a timely manner, even sent spares at no cost to me.

Dillon once held a competitive advantage in quality and service I'm told. But that advantage has pretty much disappeared in the price range most reloaders are looking to buy in - the 650 and 550 range. If they have an advantage now, I can't see how nor in what.

I base my reloading purchase decisions based on value per dollar and in today's reloading world, that no longer is Dillon, emotional appeals or "so and so big competitor uses one" to the contrary. Heck, lots celebrities names are associated with stuff that isn't all that great.
Regards,

Dave

[standles]

Buy and Try.

Reload what your happy with and avoid the emotional pissing contests.

I have owned presses from all makers.

The Dillon(s) and a redding are al lthat is left on my bench.

I gave away the LNL.

Steven

[jim4065]

Called Hornady customer service today to talk about the press I ordered. He was friendly and professional. Evidently the "fix" on the ejector wire involves abandoning the wire completely and going to an alternate system. When I asked if the Lee Factory Crimp dies would work with it, he implied that it was no longer an issue. Got the impression that they're not to release any information until the new catalog hits the streets later this month. Anyway, I'm satisfied with the purchase and, on reflection, the Dillon rep did me a favor. For about the same money that I was going to pay for the base 650 I'll get the LNL AP with Case Feeder. Don't know how I'll feel about it all in 10 years but I'm happy now. Incidentally, I can't see much difference between the Hornady and Dillon case feeders, especially the shell plates. Might hold off buying the case feeder until I see if they're going to up the anti - say, a free shell plate? :bigsmyl2:

[FN in MT]

Dillons makes a really great progressive. Maybe the RCBS or the Hornady works as well or nearly as well. I don't know. All I know is that my pair of 550's have loaded a ton of ammo with ZERO issues.

Back when I loaded commercially I had a pair of 1000's running 40-50 hours a week for about a year. Again....ZERO issues.

I'd forget any allegiance to LEE and buy the DILLON. You will probably be better off in the long run.

FN in MT

[shooterg]

There's always been a bit of "snippiness" between Lee and Dillon. I started out(like most, probably) with a single stage Lee I still use for "odd" loads. My bride gimme a Dillon 550 in 1999 and with the exception of her virtue, it's the best thing she ever gave me .
I had quite a few old Lee dies by 1999 and they must've been the "short" ones 'cause they didn't work on the Dillon. Wouldn't surprise me if Dillon made the toolhead too thick for then current Lee dies on purpose ! But, yeah, the sales guy shoulda at least just said, "you MAY have a problem with adjustments on some maker's dies" and then pitched his product, which is his job. I still use the Lee dies and am happy with 'em, though I go the the "combination" route in the Dillon. Gotta love them Redding Competition seaters if you shoot HP.
Most of my loading is on the 550 and an ancient Square Deal - but I don't think quality of any of the ammo is any better than what I laborously churned out on the old Challenger.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I started out with a Lee Challenger press. I learned on it and found that it was too sloooooow. I went to a Lee Loadmaster. It was a trial. I kept it for two years and turned out thousands of rounds on it. A lot of them had no primer or no powder. I never could master the skills required to control the primer feed mechanism. Finally a friend abandonded the reloading genre and gave me all his Dillon stuff. It included a Dillon 550B press and all the goodies with it.

I played with it and found that I could really put out some quality rounds with it in a rapid manner and almost all of them came out pretty good. Then I got into casting and I have never looked back. I junked the Lee Loadmaster and kept the Challenger and picked up a SS-80 single stage press from MIdway.

My experiences with Dillon have been excellent. I bought a case feeder last year and although not perfect it does a good job allowing me to produce .45's, 9 MM's and .38's in unexpected volume on my ancient 550B. Their tech support is excellent and their dies although expensive are really convenient and easy to use. I still use the FCD by Lee on all my pistol rounds and their expansion and depriming dies on all my rife rounds.

My ss-80 by Midway is wearing out. It is made of Aluminum and Midway has not sold it in years, now I know why. I expect to buy a Lee Classic Iron single stage press in the near future as I am getting into rifle loading a lot recently.

I find as I age (fighting against it every day) that I enjoy the reloading and casting parts of my life as much as I do shooting the rounds that I make. Maybe because of the fact that my accuracy is failing along with my eyesight and that I enjoy the smelting, casting and assembly of rounds more as I can get a better job done than when I shoot them off. Getting old ain't for sisseys.

Somehow the collecting and preserving of old molds and producing new and useable boolits makes me happier than the burning of gun powder and that makes me wonder about the timeless allure of the shooting sports altogether.

I am not a hunter and I suppose if I ate what I shot I might do it; the lack of suitable game here in Nevada does not give me the urge to hunt. I figure if it can't shoot back then where is the thrill.

I miss the adrenline rush of being a LEO and the dangers attached outweigh the supposed thrill of the hunt where after a success you have to butcher and carry out the meat.

I went to the range yesterday to shoot my .45 1911 which I have been neglecting for the last 6 months. My shooting skills needed the preactice as my 25 yd targets were lousy.

At the completion of my shooting I walked up to a pristine target and whipped out the 1911 and I let off a mag full of shots as fast as I could at a range of 15 feet from the target. Every one was a killer in the center of the target at least in the 9 ring and the whole thing took place in about 2 seconds.

All those thousands of rounds and hours spent on the range cumlinated in a very decent group (the best of the day) when I imagined that someone was trying to shoot me and this is what counted.

I went home with big smile on my face knowing that I still could get the job done if it needed to be done and that Taurus 1911 felt good on my hip loaded with 200 gr Federal Hydra-Shok hollow points.

[targetshootr]

I never used Lee dies but people are always trashing their reloading stuff, for whatever reason. I use RCBS dies on my 650 which work fine and Dillon always sends free parts for the press when I break or wear out something. Last year when I was taking hydrocodone for a herniated disk I broke the cast base and they sent another one. That drug can give you something like 'roid rage.

[colbyjack]

Called today to get the 550 or 650 on order and unfortunately had to ask a couple of questions to decide between the two. The young man was pleasant and helpful until I mentioned that I'd be using Lee dies. He started telling me what a mistake that was - Lee makes "throw away" dies, etc. Didn't need to hear that so I thanked him for his time and hung up. Probably should've said something but what the hell - he's their problem. I know - Sales is Sales - but it burns me up to have someone talk down the competition. Don't care about Ford or Chevy - just want to go from point A to point B. :evil:

So I called Mid-South (hate their website) and spoke to a nice lady about the Hornady LNL AP. I still owe Mid-South some more business anyway so I put one on order. They're back-ordered (all over it seems) for Hornady to finish the ejector upgrade - I can wait. Kind of a shame to have a salesman make the decision for me but that's life. The 1000 bullets helps sweeten the deal and should make up for any short comings of the Hornady. Talking myself into being happy. [smilie=l:

in my eyes thats not bad customer service. maybe its the truth and hes being honest and trying to save you money in the long run. if you called on the machine maybe order it with no dies and buy your choice redding,rcbs, whatever.

thats like me telling you to use durex rubbers at a brothel and you go..... ahh never mind. good luck on your other press, dillon has top notch customer service no BS. drop that new press off the back of your truck going down the highway they will say buy a new one. dillon will say send it in for a new one. loose 4 650's in a house fire they send you new ones and all they got was chunks of this and that. i bet the other press wont send you new top of the line press if they get burned up in the house. ........... good luck -chris

[BUFFALOW RED]

i have 2 dillion 650's & only have used lee dies no problems

[Explorer1]

I am a VERY firm supporter of voting with my checkbook, and the sales person probably handled this poorly. But Dillon builds great "stuff" - pay once, cry over the sticker shock once, then enjoy.

[Buckshot]

............Only problem I had with Dillon was their exorbient shipping charges on small items. I ordered a couple Shock Buffers for my EAA Witness pistol. They were $9.75 each (yeeouch) but I ordered 2 of'em. They charged something like $6-$7 for shipping. I just looked at their website and couldn't find the shipping chart, but I had seen it after Dillon and I had words, so I know it's there somewhere.

So these 2 items total LESS then a half ounce. Figure $0.42 postage, $1.25 for someone to drop them into an envelope, and $1.00 for an envelope. Where did the other $4+, go?

The above is basically the e-mail I sent to cust service (3 TIMES) before I got an answer, and all it was was their shipping charges chart. They sell a lot of small parts like springs, screws, those shock buff deals and lots more. You buy a tricked out hammer for your 1911 and pay (we'll say) $79 for it. Dillon turns around and charges something like $12 for shipping? It's just a bunch of Pelosi or Obama if you ask me :-)

................Buckshot

[fatnhappy]

As my boss used to say, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." Maybe a little of that could be true here.

exile

there's more truth in that than i'd like to admit. Having clawed my way up to middle management, I have discovered nuance. Thank God there are still some employees that respond well to man to man conversations. Strangely both of them are vets.......
It sucks having to think about what you say. Years ago straight forward conversation was the norm. Now I have to lead the horse to water and I ain't so sure the horse gets it.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Dillon vs Lee...you get what you pay for. I have hamfisted more than one of the eight Dillon presses I own, and they always sent me the replacement parts after a phone conversation explaining what I had done.

Rich

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Thing about it is, in today's world, you don't have to "buy once, cry once." There's excellent presses from Lee (their Classic series), RCBS (their Pro2000 series) and Hornady (their LnL series). All of these presses are as good and better than anything Dillon offers. Better powder measures, better runout, simpler and less expensive to change calibers, more durable, better primer disposal systems, etc.

So the "buy once, cry once" theory just doesn't hold water. I know it's hard for folks who haven't tried the other products to realize this, but it's a simple fact. Those of us who have tried the other products know. You don't have to buy once and cry once when you can get excellent product from other companies, so why do so? Makes no logical sense.

You can deny this, but I've owned a Dillon product - the 550. Most can't say that about the LnL and the few I've seen that did try out a LnL after owning a Dillon and went back to the Dillon typically had a 550 and weren't able or didn't like the different design of the LnL or were unable to make the adjustment to an automatic advance press and went back to a 550, rather than to a 650. I've also had the chance to compare both the 550 and the 650 to my LnL. Every time my buddy and I built the same rifle cartridge, my cartridges had better runout. Every time I we both added a caliber conversion, I spent much less money. We've both had the same amount of issues related to parts wearing out, though he's lost a bunch more little plastic pins over the years and I haven't, because my press doesn't have them and both companies have taken care of us warranty wise. He owns I think 10 powder measures now and is contemplating buying a couple more. I own one and am not likely to buy another, unless I decide to add another base or two (not the measure itself) in order I can have extra setups for the cartridges I load the most. Haven't decided if I will or not, been thinking on it for the last five years, so probably be another two or three before I feel a need to add those. It's these little nickel and dime items that make such a big difference to me. Also, I do enjoy listening to my buddy grumble about the money he spends on those when I'm trying to talk him into a group buy for primers and powder, etc.

The LnL beats either of the Dillon (550/650) in key areas for me - bigger, beefier, smoother operating press with plenty of room for large hands, better ergonomics (operating handle with right hand, insert bullets with left) better powder measure, less runout on rifle or pistol cartridges (more important for long range rifle cartridges, you don't have to load your 600 yard line stuff on a single stage like most Dillon high power shooters do), less expensive caliber conversions, better/cleaner primer disposal (the press is always clean, no primer residue to clean off and it doesn't wear out due to primer residue crud/dirt wearing on the parts), lower initial cost for the base press and excellent customer service without any arrogance at all - replacement parts (I've only replaced 3 springs after 10 years of use.) shipped promptly at no charge.

These items I've listed aren't based on emotional things like "buy once, cry once" or "so and so, the greatest shooter in ____________ competition, uses Dillon" or "I've had one for 20 years and it's never failed me." While the last one on this final list is a decent reason, I can answer it with "I've had the Hornady LnL for ten years, loaded thousands upon thousands of rounds with it and it's not only never failed me, it's delivered incredibly accurate rifle cartridges and I still only use just the powder measure that came with it and never felt a need to buy another, even for convenience sake. It's convenient as is, as well as being quick and easy to setup. Something I never felt or said about my 550's powder measure. Had I kept the 550, I'd own several powder measures now, so I wouldn't have to adjust the beast.

Just my .02, take it for what it costs, it's less expensive, so I can spend more money on brass, bullets, primers, powder, guns and boolit casting equipment.

Regards,

Dave

[mike in co]

sorry to hear you have not been able to enjoy the dillon product. each to thier own. you are not the only person that was not able to operate a dillon succesfully. there is a person on this board that bought multiple dillon presses and then promptly claimed they did not work. more like operator error.
dillon has never charged me, or anyone i know for a replacement part, and parts shipped promptly.
now, you can claim that endorsements from known competitive shooters is not valid, but it in fact supports the lack of value in your opinion. when you shoot for a living, when you endorse and are supported my gun manufactures, you cannot fail in public. this means you must have ammo that works and works 100 percent of the time. please show me a top 5 ??top 10 ipsc, idpa, cowboy, three gun competitior that loads on a lock-n-load ? when the last survey was done, it was 9 out of 10 using dillon.
please note i did not bad mouth the lnl, unlike you. if your lnl press is so good, it should be able to stand on its merits, not on the percived negatives of the competition.

lots of choices in life.

mike in co

[legend]

i have owned a 550(still do) and most of my loading is done on it,when i broke something on it dillon was great on the phone and sent one right out with no charge,each time.when i have lost a part they have treated me the same way and in my experence i could not ask for better people to talk to..
i have reloaded since 1970, most of the time in talking to a company about thier dies,or,press,or whatever i have hungup thinking"man,i dont want to use thier products any more",lee,ponsness warren,lyman,have all fallen short.

not so with dillon!

i can afford any press/dies i want,why would i go anywhere else.....

[Ricochet]

Maybe Dillon could send out one of their models to help set up the equipment?

[anachronism]

Hell, I was there... I've tried LEE dies on a Dillon, and found that the ones in handgun calibers were too short for satisfactory use on my 550. This is probably due to LEEs minimalistic approach in the design of their products. Short bodies allow them to make more dies with less raw material. As long as it works with their presses, who cares? That'll teach you to buy a press from someone else. Hornady, RCBS, Redding, Lyman and practically everyone else make dies that will work with all makes of presses. The Dillon guy was probably trying to make sure you'd be happy with their press, and as you have read, there can be issues using el cheapo dies with Dillon presses. For the record, I've never gotten a smart-ass on the phone at Dillon, and after the initial press investment, I haven't spent a dime there, but have received exemplary service after the sale.

[Nanook]

I have equipment from almost all of the manufacturers, but my main press is a 550.

I also have an RCBS Reloader Special, if I have that name correct. Also an excellent press, and practically indestructible.

Almost all of my dies are RCBS, with one set of Dillon dies. I also use Lee factory crimp dies and I have some Redding neck sizing dies for various rifles.

I've had almost no problems with any of this stuff. The few things that went wrong with the 550 were due to operator error, mine.

I phoned Dillon, told them what I did, and asked how much? Free, including shipping was the response.

With RCBS, I bought that press second-hand. It came without the primer catcher tray. I called RCBS to buy one, and they sent it out free along with some collets for my bullet puller, also free.

You can't beat that guys, from either company.

I'm intrigued by the Hornady LNL, but can't really justify another press at this point. I do use plenty of their bullets, but that's another story. :-D

[Lloyd Smale]

I cant picture what little plastic pins your refering to. cant figure out why he keeps buying powder measures. I have a couple extra but just because i got them used cheap. All you have to do is buy a powder bar for a differnt load or a micrometer powder bar and keep track of settings. I pull my handle with my right and put bullet on with my left too, Runout is usually a problem with dies not with a press. take for instance a bonanza coax. there know to be a prefered press for the bench rest croud. The dies are not solid in them they float. Compare both presses with identical dies and id bet you cant see a measurable difference in runnout. I guess its what a guy is used to. I dont have a problem with a lock and load. I think there great presses. I kind of get a kick out of the red vs blue deal. Guys just hate to admit they bought something that isnt better then someone elses. I like the dillon not because its better but it is what im used to cranking on. I know its litte problems and believe me they ALL have there little problems if you use them enough.
Thing about it is, in today's world, you don't have to "buy once, cry once." There's excellent presses from Lee (their Classic series), RCBS (their Pro2000 series) and Hornady (their LnL series). All of these presses are as good and better than anything Dillon offers. Better powder measures, better runout, simpler and less expensive to change calibers, more durable, better primer disposal systems, etc.

So the "buy once, cry once" theory just doesn't hold water. I know it's hard for folks who haven't tried the other products to realize this, but it's a simple fact. Those of us who have tried the other products know. You don't have to buy once and cry once when you can get excellent product from other companies, so why do so? Makes no logical sense.

You can deny this, but I've owned a Dillon product - the 550. Most can't say that about the LnL and the few I've seen that did try out a LnL after owning a Dillon and went back to the Dillon typically had a 550 and weren't able or didn't like the different design of the LnL or were unable to make the adjustment to an automatic advance press and went back to a 550, rather than to a 650. I've also had the chance to compare both the 550 and the 650 to my LnL. Every time my buddy and I built the same rifle cartridge, my cartridges had better runout. Every time I we both added a caliber conversion, I spent much less money. We've both had the same amount of issues related to parts wearing out, though he's lost a bunch more little plastic pins over the years and I haven't, because my press doesn't have them and both companies have taken care of us warranty wise. He owns I think 10 powder measures now and is contemplating buying a couple more. I own one and am not likely to buy another, unless I decide to add another base or two (not the measure itself) in order I can have extra setups for the cartridges I load the most. Haven't decided if I will or not, been thinking on it for the last five years, so probably be another two or three before I feel a need to add those. It's these little nickel and dime items that make such a big difference to me. Also, I do enjoy listening to my buddy grumble about the money he spends on those when I'm trying to talk him into a group buy for primers and powder, etc.

The LnL beats either of the Dillon (550/650) in key areas for me - bigger, beefier, smoother operating press with plenty of room for large hands, better ergonomics (operating handle with right hand, insert bullets with left) better powder measure, less runout on rifle or pistol cartridges (more important for long range rifle cartridges, you don't have to load your 600 yard line stuff on a single stage like most Dillon high power shooters do), less expensive caliber conversions, better/cleaner primer disposal (the press is always clean, no primer residue to clean off and it doesn't wear out due to primer residue crud/dirt wearing on the parts), lower initial cost for the base press and excellent customer service without any arrogance at all - replacement parts (I've only replaced 3 springs after 10 years of use.) shipped promptly at no charge.

These items I've listed aren't based on emotional things like "buy once, cry once" or "so and so, the greatest shooter in ____________ competition, uses Dillon" or "I've had one for 20 years and it's never failed me." While the last one on this final list is a decent reason, I can answer it with "I've had the Hornady LnL for ten years, loaded thousands upon thousands of rounds with it and it's not only never failed me, it's delivered incredibly accurate rifle cartridges and I still only use just the powder measure that came with it and never felt a need to buy another, even for convenience sake. It's convenient as is, as well as being quick and easy to setup. Something I never felt or said about my 550's powder measure. Had I kept the 550, I'd own several powder measures now, so I wouldn't have to adjust the beast.

Just my .02, take it for what it costs, it's less expensive, so I can spend more money on brass, bullets, primers, powder, guns and boolit casting equipment.

Regards,

Dave

[KYCaster]

i have owned a 550(still do) and most of my loading is done on it,when i broke something on it dillon was great on the phone and sent one right out with no charge,each time......



When I started looking at progressive loaders to keep up with my IPSC habit, almost everyone was useing Dillon presses. There were a few RCBS "Green Machines" and a Star or two, but prices for used ones were double what the Dillons were selling for new.

So I started paying attention to what these guys were saying and ALL OF THEM were telling the same story as Legend...."When my Dillon broke they sent me the parts free!"

The message I got was that every Dillon press made...broke....multiple times. It got to be a standard excuse..."My press broke last night so I had to dig out the 'practice ammo'."

Practice ammo???...."Yeah, I loaded 500 rounds last week and when I got done I noticed the powder measure was out of whack so I put them in the 'practice bag'.

So I went the cheap route and bought a Lee Pro 1000. Then a friend gave me another one. Then another friend called and said I could have his....I picked it up off his front yard where he'd thrown it. (really)

After a couple of years with the Pro 1000's I "UPGRADED" to a Lee Loadmaster. Talk about an exercise in frustration....I finally called the company to see if they could tell me how to get the primer feed to work.

Guess who answered the phone....Richard Lee himself....the old man....he had just stopped by the shop and decided to answer a couple of calls....boy was I impressed.

But that didn't last long...talk about an ATTITUDE. The press is fully adjusted before it leaves the factory and there is ab-so-lutly no way it can turn a primer upside down...period!!!! And anybody with slightly more intelligence than a mud turtle can opperate a Lee press.

And then he told me, "You'd probably be happier with a Dillon press."

So I agreed with him....and bought a Hornady L_N_L......life is good! :-D

Jerry

[jim4065]

OK - I'll admit that it looks like I screwed up. (Again). My "Gun Room" has a new reloading bench and I've got a case feeder, four feeder plates, a powder drain, 3 shellplates and two powder thru expander inserts - but no press. Been watching Mid-South to see when my back-ordered LnL AP will get here and they finally posted a date - 2/16/2009. :shock:

I suppose the lesson is to never order anything unless it's in stock. Another may be to only order from a single supplier - whether they have enough stock or not. I bought from four different companies because none of them had everything, and in fact there was no choice but to split up the order in order to get all that I wanted. I'll be on the phone trying to get closure Monday. Even if its all gotta be shipped back, including the stuff from Cabelas and Midway that hasn't got here yet, I can't see any reason to wait until the end of February to get a press. [smilie=b:

Wow - what a mess. :violin:

[MT Gianni]

Jim4065, Graf & sons had a couple in stock last week.

[JSH]

I will put my .02 in. I read the first page of comments is all, so beg pardon if this has been hashed out.
I bought a square deal in about 85. I ha dnot reloaded a single round up until that point. I had no idea the dies were any different on the SD than any other press. After I got it, a friend helped me set it up. I got into reloading pretty quick after that. As I need a conventional press of some type, I then purchased a used rock chucker.
I had reloaded about everything I could on the SD and it sat idle for several years. I went to start it back up and it just wouldn't function. I tore it down, cleaned and lubed it and put it back together. Still no luck. A phone call and after trying a few things along with FREE new parts, it got sent back. In about 7 days from mailing it was back home, worked like a champ with all the caliber convesrions I sent with it. I don't know what they did, but I would swear there was aa LOT of new parts and a new powder measure. This was all free BTW.
Now onto the RC press. It had some issues from the get go or so I thought and sent it back. It was returned in short order and a no charge and list of what the did was returned to me.
I also had some RCBS dies that I had bought used and they were scratching the brass. A phone call and I sent them off. Returned and good as new, along with what they found to be the problem.
Also had some problems with a new set of redding dies. They were replaced in short order free of charge.
Now, not to tick any one off.
The first set of lee dies I ever used were purchsed by a friend for his 300WM. Once fired brass in his Ruger. First case in went in gosh awful hardbut we thought it was just a big case so we went on. Went to pull it out and tore the rim off. First time I ever had this happen. We did asper lees instructions, used the decapping pin as a stuck case extractor, what a joke, bent the decap pin. Finall got the case out and improvised a borrowed decap pin stuck the next one. Yes we cleaned the die after it was stuck. The case had some scratches on it. Looked at that with a loup, couldn't see a thing. Went ahead and polished it with a bore mop and some flitz. Cases stille went in real hard.Mean while we had come up with a mixed set of rcbs and redding dies. Cases sized very easy. NO scratches. Everything was good after the switch. The friend that bought the dies,called Lee and they told him he had them to long or some such crap and could not repair them for free......................... price they quoted him to fix them wasn't far off from buying another set, why waste time and money again.
I swore off of them for a long time. I then bought a set of carbide lee dies to load some heavy CB's for 357. 204+ grain bullets wouldn't work on the SD, to long. Their carbide worked fine, no gripes. Then I got into milsurps. 7.5x55 dies are crap. inside finish is terrible. Went to them for the 06 same thing. Got a used set for 32-20 same thing. All of the later mentioned were very hard on brass. Everything from over sizing to chewing cases up.
Maybe I am to darn picky. But, when that case comes out of the die, I don't want any kind of marks on it, period.
Yes they have got a lot of folks into reloading very cheap, that is a good thing, I suppose. I won't knock them real hard as they do have some decent equipment and good ideas. The lee stuff I do have doesn't see a lot use and serves the purpose of low usage calibers in my rack.
As to the comment one gent made somthing to the effect to buy the cheapest dies there are and there is no difference. I beg to differ. You do get what you pay for most of the time. Do a bit of measuring and you will see, more so on bottle necked rounds than straight wall.
As to Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge etc. I go at that with an open mind. They will all make a few lemons, but they will all win a race or two as well. I think that makes for an interesting discussion if it can stay a discussion and not an insult exchange.
jeff

[Bret4207]

sorry to hear you have not been able to enjoy the dillon product. each to thier own. you are not the only person that was not able to operate a dillon succesfully. there is a person on this board that bought multiple dillon presses and then promptly claimed they did not work. more like operator error.
dillon has never charged me, or anyone i know for a replacement part, and parts shipped promptly.
now, you can claim that endorsements from known competitive shooters is not valid, but it in fact supports the lack of value in your opinion. when you shoot for a living, when you endorse and are supported my gun manufactures, you cannot fail in public. this means you must have ammo that works and works 100 percent of the time. please show me a top 5 ??top 10 ipsc, idpa, cowboy, three gun competitior that loads on a lock-n-load ? when the last survey was done, it was 9 out of 10 using dillon.
please note i did not bad mouth the lnl, unlike you. if your lnl press is so good, it should be able to stand on its merits, not on the percived negatives of the competition.

lots of choices in life.

mike in co

Mike, do you really think an endorsement means the guys REALLY loads his own ammo on such and such a press? And endorsement is just a money maker for both parties. I can't put much faith in any endorsement form anyone.

[Geraldo]

Years ago I was in a squad with Todd Jarrett (by chance, not ability). If I'd have only asked him what machinery he reloaded his ammo on...

I'm not sure why a lot of these discussions devolve into red or blue arguments. I've got Dillon, Redding, and Forster presses, but none of them pay me to sell their equipment. If something else works for you, then good for you. :drinks:

Jim, you're probably money ahead to pay a bit more from someone that has the LnL in stock than to ship everything else back on your dime. While I'm sure they'll take it all back, they probably won't pay the freight just because other orders didn't come from other companies.

[dromia]

I tried to buy a Dillon back in 1994. I didn't because of the Dillon sales reps attitude.

This was the days before universal internet, I was ringing from the UK and had some questions about the different models of Dillon presses. He embarked upon a tirade of abuse on every other companies products, many of which I hadn't even heard of, and refused to listen to anything I had to say or answer my questions.

I vowed fom that day never to buy Dillon and have used RCBS and Hornady progressives with no problem since and I in no way feel progessively disadvantaged.

I'm sure my lack of purchase made no diffrenece to Mr Dillons bank balance, however I felt better knowing that my hard earned cash hadn't gone to pay that sales reps wages.

I did write to Dillon about the issue and I'm still awaiting a reply.

I take as I find and I found Dillon sales wanting.

If someone was to give me a Dillon free gratis then I'd be happy to use it, but I'll be damned if I'll give them money.

Anyway there is no need as there are just as good products out there costing a lot less, feature for feature.

Still if colour is an issue for you then go for it.

[Just Duke]

you need to go back and read.



mike in co



sorry to hear you have not been able to enjoy the dillon product. each to thier own. you are not the only person that was not able to operate a dillon succesfully. there is a person on this board that bought multiple dillon presses and then promptly claimed they did not work. more like operator error.


mike in co

Looks like you need to go back and read about the person that you claim had operator error. As said before in his post, the CHUTE BIN MOUNT part #13470 was hitting the PLATFORM # 16658 on Dillon 650 and causing a intermitent double feed of cases. The part #13470 CHUTE BIN MOUNT is a sheet metal stamping and out-sourced, was not stamped to the proper shape causing it AGAIN catch on the PLATFORM # 16658. As any machine Mike they can and will be made improperly/assembled by a US work force that most usually drinks themselves to sleep at night. Just because it is NEW does NOT mean it is perfect and the thousand or so parts fabricated are flawless.
You also having my phone number have never called and asked why my presses were not functioning right as I have thrown caution to the wind and had other call me to help them iron out their problems. (Including a miriad of gents that have called me and helped me with my casting problems.) But you just assume that I am just some dumb lunk (Been a retired engineer for 10 years) that can't operate a can opener. But your pretty much here just to market your products. [smilie=1:
As I have said before the Dillon 650 is 20 year old technology and if I had it to do all over again I would have gone with the still state of the art 1050.

Back to the original post;
The Dillon dies have worked flawlessly for years when I used them for 45 ACP. My 550 purchased in 1989 ran 130 pound of WW bullets a month through them.
I now again have another set of .45 ACP dies + 40 S&W and 45 Long Colt.
I did not use their 9mm dies but instead went with the Redding for that same said reason the other poster did and that also was back in 1989.
So far 25,000 plus rounds (Mixed calibers) have been run through the 4 Dillon 650's and their dies after I fixed Dillons Boo Boo's and called them and informed them about the improperly fabricated part in which case I was handsomely rewarded......MIKE............

[Just Duke]

Quote:
Elord told me once that at the height they were turning out 500 a year. Exactly when that started I don't know but it went on for decades.

For a considerable period Star had large standing orders for their machines. Thus they didn't have to advertise. If you found them, they would sell you a machine. All the rest went to a few very big customers.

Star help Mike Dillon get started. Mike's first product was the so-called Super Star kit which converted a Star Universal into a machine capable of reloading 223's. Elord helped Mike develop that.

Mike's first machine, the Dillon RL1050, was meant to be a Super Star kit built from the ground up. Financially it was a blop. That forced Mike into machine machines like his current line. When Mike became the leading progressive manufacturer, he specifically set out to destroy Star. I never understood why.

The Wilkinson family, two generations of which worked for Star, would probably know more. The elder Wilkinson retired to somewhere in the Phoenix area. God only know where. There are about a dozen towns down there. His son, Rob I think, might have gone there too. Might be worth a search to see if there is a Rob Wilkinson in the phone book somewhere.

One last thought. For a long time Star Universals sold for $450 I think. That was a lot more than they cost to make. Star was getting so many orders, however, that they raised the price to $950 to cut interest. It had just the opposite effect.

http://www.starreloaders.com/forum/i...opic,22.0.html

[Just Duke]

Quote:
Star73,

I don't claim to be an expert on Star history, but the Super Star Conversions was Dillons first entry into the reloading business, and my understanding is that he was on friendly terms with Star at the time. The conversions was a group of parts that converted a Star Universal to load .223. According to Dillon's website, he sold less than 100 of them. I have a partial set of the parts. I keep looking for the rest, but haven't made much progress.

The following is from Dillon's website:

The Highly Irregular and Somewhat Improbable
History of Dillon Precision Products
By Mike Dillon

I got into the reloading equipment business purely by accident. It started when a friend of mine died in an airplane crash – MY airplane. A few other friends of his and I spent four or five months closing up his machine shop business and selling off all the tools for his widow. When we were finished, she said, “I guess I owe you an airplane.” I answered, “No you don’t. I didn’t lend it to you. I lent it to your husband. That was between him and me. But I WOULD like his Thompson submachine gun.” The Tommy gun came with a star loading tool, so I became a progressive reloader.

Shortly thereafter, I bought an M-16, and wanted to load .223 ammo progressively, but Star said it wasn’t possible to do it with their tool. They said, “If you want to try it, we’ll sell you a .380 shellplate and you can try to make it work.” So I went to a machinist and cut down an RCBS die, ground the hardcoat off of the outside and had him thread it to the weird thread size that Star dies used and I made the damn thing work. I changed the link-arms to give it a little more stroke and came up with a kit so my friends could convert their machines.

My friend Peter Kokalis was ridiculing me and sarcastically suggested marketing my kit as the “Superstar Conversion,” which I did. Maybe 100 or so kits were sold, but soon people started asking me for a conversion to load .30-06 rifle ammunition on the Star machine. That’s when I decided to make my own reloader. The RL-1000 was the first full-fledged Dillon Precision product. Manufacture started out in my garage, then we moved into a small shop. We started the company on a $30,000 loan against our house.



http://www.starreloaders.com/forum/i...pic,618.0.html

[Just Duke]

I have never heard anything bad from the Dillon employees besmearching another manufactures product. I do know from having a couple of buddies that worked at Dillon the products that come back as seconds are promptly fought over by the employees for purchase. Most guys that answer the phone at Dillon have been there for years and reload for alot of real odd ball cartridges (including main steam one) and are really good at what they know.
Most Dillon employees are not there for the money, but are there because they LOVE the products. I myself have been to their first facillity dozens of times and chatted quite heavilly with the owner (mostly about choppers) and find him to be a facinating intelligent fella.
I was however informed by several employees that their chief engineer was causing turmoil within the said company "mid 90's) and he was said to be so "highly valued" that he could do know wrong and if for some reason he didn't like another employee for any reason, had that employee, by the power that be "packing and on his way. :( That did leave a sour taste in my mouth for years but later that said engineer must have been found out about because he is no longer there and now makes some sort of a bullet feeder/case feeder.
After his egressing I promptly picked up the Dillon line again.

[Just Duke]

The only LEE product I use is their 500 S&W dies only because Dillon does not make any.
I will however, never buy another LEE product.

[j4570]

I think you should wirte Mike Dillon and explain what happened and why you chose another press. I encountered no such attitude but my press was bought from a local dealer. When I went to buy additional items, all the guys have been straightforward, only once did they snafu on an order and was willing to accomodate me to fix it. They also asked me what kind of dies I was using and they cautioned me about some other brands with their equipment may not worked and when I inquired further, they stated for example, LEE dies may be too short. I explained I had mostly RCBS & Lyman, and that the LEE dies I had was for something I probably wouldn't load on the Dillon. And he replied I should be ok.

Now, there is one Dillon product, the universal decap die, that I think in junk. The decap pins aren't warranted by Dillon. They did ask me if I was decapping berdan brass and I told them no. It was crimped 223 Sellier & Belliot case. I bought a couple pins and bent another one. At $3 each that was crazy. I had paid like $9 for a Lyman that I broke after thousands of rounds. I since bought an RCBS that has the small replaceable pins (The Lyman didn't, it was going to cost almost as much as the die with shipping because I could only get the part from Lyman), and have been happy ever since. And guess what, not a broken or bent pin finishing those 200 or so cases that bent the Dillon Pin. So I tell everyone not to buy the Dillon Universal Decap Die.

As for the Hornady Progressive, I looked seriously at it back then in 1996 when I got my press. I'm glad I didn't purchase it at that time. Since then, they have made some notable upgrades, one being a case activated powder drop (previously the press actuated it and dumped powder there even if a case wasn't present unless you disconnected the rod) and the press didn't have the bushings to interchange the dies. These are very good improvements. I had a friend that had a Hornady Progressive given to him, and he upgraded the powder drop and it made the press soooo much better. And with the bushings to interchange dies, that's great too along with 5 die stations over the 4 on the Dillon 550.

Will I get rid of my 550? No, I am familiar with it and it works well. But I might would buy a used Hornady for the right money too!!!

I really think you should write Mike Dillon and explain it. Tell him you're not asking for anything as you have spent your money elsewhere. The way the salesman handled himself is completey wrong. I mean this bozo is trashing other companies dies. Suppose you were loading something Dillion doesn't sell dies for (and guess what, it's a lot of calibers)? I think a warning is fair enough concerning some other makes of dies may or may not work, but trashing the other companies, not good business in my experience.

Give us a review of the Hornady when you get it.

JW

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got an occasional crappy service man on the phone but over the years have gotten to know most of them and there all great people that for the most part will bend over backwards for you. I think what happens is when they get a new guy they tell them what is covered and what is not and until they get a little time in there not flexable. Ive found if you get one of them on the phone just hang up and call later in the day and youll get a differnt person. As to longevity i cant comment on a lock and load because ive havent seen one with any serious ammount of rounds but ive got 5 square deals and id bet my house that 4 of them and my 550 have each loaded over a million rounds of ammo. Sure stuff has broke and sure i could give dillon so thoughts on how to improve them but then theyd be more expensive. You can have a 1050 for square deal prices. Nice thing with the dillons is a guy can load a couple hundred thousand rounds box them up and send them in and it will come back like new and ready to go again. Knowing hornady they would probably do the same though. Bottom line is in my opinion when you factor the cost and reliablility between a lock and load and a 650 and all there features its about a toss up. A square deal isnt quite as good but its faster and cheaper. A 1050 is in a league of its own and has no competition in the market place and never did. The stars i loaded on were nothing but a pain in the ass.

[AzShooter]

Unfortunately the salesman didn't use the right terms to suggest his dies or the RCBS that they sell. There is a big difference in dies. Lee work but do not work as well as some other dies.

On my Dillon 650 I use only Dillon dies.

On my 550 I used Lees until the guarenteed for life decaping pin broke the first day of use. I needed the ammo and no one had a replacement pin. I bought a set of RCBS dies and have been happy with them every since.

I also tried Lee in my .303 British and the neck only die doesn't size the neck correctly. I should have bought the RCBS again.

I'm not saying Lee's don't work. On my single stage Lee press they work fine but they don't work real well on my progressives.

[rockrat]

I load 9mm on my 650 with Lee dies and haven't had any trouble with it. Also loaded 44mag on my other 650 using lee dies and also, no problems. I have had Lee 1000's and all are in a corner except one, the 45 colt one, it works well. Had a "Green Machine"--talk about priming nightmares eventually.

Bought a 1050 used, from the Leverguns board, thinking I could load .308, but once I got it in, I remembered that it took the Super 1050 for that. Dillon told me the same thing. All I need to do is get me a crimp die and cut it off for bullet clearance and I think I will be good to go. .223 and 7.62 x 39 should be no problem. Just a pain to change calibers

Only problem I had with Dillon, was I called to order parts for the 1050, and the guy I talked to, you could tell he really didn't want to talk to me, as I didn't have a manual and could'nt tell him the part numbers. You could just hear it from him over the phone. He kept saying 550 and I would say "no, a 1050". I was lucky I called back a few minutes later and asked if I could add another part to the order, as the other guy looked at my order and wondered why I ordered 550 shellplates. Told him I ordered 1050 shellplates. He corrected everything for me and sounded like he was glad to have helped me, unlike the first guy.

Got my Grafs catalog in two days later and found I could have ordered a complete conversion kit for what Dillon directly charged me for just the shellplate!!

Live and learn, I guess.

By the way, I have Dillon 450, 650 (2) and now a 1050. I also use a RCBS Rockchuck and have 310 tools I use and Lee hand presses I sometimes use. Now that I am not single, I can't get away with loading with the hand stuff in front of the TV, especially since the significant other sucked a live primer into her vacumn and it went off. BANNED to loading room.

Enjoy your Lock n load, but if you ever do get to where you want to buy a Dillon, check out Grafs first.

By the way, when I got the used 1050 in, the guy had been loading 38 supers with it and was using a lee crimp die, but he had wrapped the upper part of the die with teflon plumbers tape instead of a lock ring. Must have worded well.

[stargzer]

Hey, that reminds me of a shoe salesman I ran cross several years ago. Picked out a pair of Davenport loafers. When we went to the counter to check out, he asked me if I had any shoe trees. What the H E double toothpicks is a shoe tree I asked. He showed me a shoe tree and I said no thanks. "Id rather not sell you these shoes if you're not going to take care of them" he said. I just walked off without a word.
If you talk to that guy again ask him if he use to sell shoes. Maybe hes made his way to Dillion after all these years.

Marc

:holysheep Hey I think I got that same saleman at Dillion a couple of months ago, he was a really "dirt bag".

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

[stargzer]

I am always suprised when I hear such poor salemanship. Dillon lost a sale, because some guy should not be working the phones in the first place. I agree there is nothing so insulting than that kind of pitch. Maybe Dillon should know that it did happen.

I agree, although this seems to be a trend with almost all big companies (anyone call AT&T lately) in the last couple of years.....extremely poor salesmanship and customer service.

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

[stargzer]

[QUOTE=PatMarlin;430930]All I have is LEE and Dillon dies on my shelves. I use LEE's in my 550b all the time. I use the thinner Dillon nuts on the older lee's. They all work for me, and most of the time I prefer the LEE's for some reason.
QUOTE]

I am using Lee 9mm dies and taper crimp on my rl550b and have never had any problems with it. I also have RCBS and Dillion dies.....they all work for me. All three companies dies work on my press, the dillion has only one small advantage, the radius on the die opening is nice....but, they also cost almost twice as much.

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

[Crash_Corrigan]

Marc 2:

My dad showed me by example the value of shoe trees. Whenever he bought a pair of shoes, he bought two pairs of the same style and color. He would never wear the same shoes two days in a row; he would always wear the second pair. When not worn ALL HIS SHOES WERE ON SHOE TREES. He must have had twenty sets of wooden shoe trees he bought many years ago.

He was born in 1909 and his dad was a country Doctor. He would have been considered wealthy {granddad} but he did not waste money. All his children went to college and my Dad also was afforded that opportunity. However he could not hack the autopsy part of medical school and gave it up after 3 years of it. My grandpa passed in 1924 at the age of 44. My Dad was only 15 at the time but there was enough money for him to get a BS from the University of Rochester and go on to medical school. There was some serious money in the Corrigan family away back then. Grandpap Daniel was one of 10 children. Amongst them were 4 Doctors, 3 Nuns 2 Nurses and a Priest who later on was elevated to Bishop. Most of my Paternal family was based in Webster NY or Kingston, Ontario. The original Patriarch, my great great Grandad was born in Kingston Ontario in 1831. Somebody a couple of years ago paid some serious money to a Geneologist to have a family tree researched. {see link http://familytrees.genopro.com/Corrigan-Family-Tree/}.

I was goofing on the internet one day and Googled my grandpa's name, and this silly geneology came up. What astounded me was that a fella by the name of George Nagle married my dad's sister Margarete and his Maternal side of the family goes way back to about 768 AD and she is directly related to the royal family of England. If you pull up this family tree thing you will find Prince Charles, Lady Dianah and all the of Windsors and such going back to before the middle ages.

I dont know if all of them dudes used shoe trees but I shure do. I have some shoes that are over 30 years old which I still wear daily. If you use saddle soap and polish and take care of your shoes they will outlast you. I am a very fussy buyer of shoes. I have about 18 pairs of them now. I seldom buy new ones and when I do I am not afraid to spend money to buy two pairs. I bought a motorcycle last spring and that required some heavy duty leather boots. Each pair cost $175 and I bought two pair. As I ride every day {50 MPG} they have shoe trees.

As far as Dillon....they are cool...helpfull....experienced....knowledgeable and very courteous. They are proud of their company but most of them do not denegrate the competition. One a few occasions I have found a less than decent person on the phone....when that happens I ask to speak to another rep as "the chemistry is not working". On those days I have never been refused and I am always happy with the results. Dillon is a class company and they will pretty much do anything possible to make the customer happy and thier attitude reflects that in most cases. If you get a dud, pull the trigger again and get somebody else.

[kimber 40]

I have nothing but good to say about Dillon.. I own a 550 B and have loaded thousands of rounds with it. I like the idea of being able to phone them up while i am at the loading bench and encounter a problem or being my fault or not break a part on the press or strip a lock nut on the dies which i have done and phone them up and they replace it no questions asked. Which i have done twice. I agree that the dies are a little on the pricey side, but i am sure you have all heard the old saying you "get what you pay for". Does Lee or RCBS or any other manufacturer for that matter offer the same no BS warranty as Dillon? NO. To me its like buying a used Dillon press at a garage sale that has been abused and mistreated and then phoning Dillon up saying this broke and that broke can you replace it ! Come on where is the loyalty here Dillon is willing to back up their product no questions asked, but in return is it too much to ask for a little customer Loyalty ???

I also agree, as a customer no one wants to or should be treated like that. I should also say the chap at Dillon needs a lesson in customer relations and it would be in Dillons best interest to make sure he gets it or keep him in the back filling boxes !!!

[Shiloh]

Well Said Kimber40

Shiloh

[flutedchamber]

Dillon for the most part does make a quality product, but it seems that the people that you get on the phone can be hit or miss the last 5 or so years, as I have written in a previous post about Dillon customer service.

I did call Dillon once with a problem concerning variable weights of small charges of flake powder (red dot) in my pistol loads. I was given a few hints, tried them and it didn't help very much if at all. I learned on my own to keep the hopper at least half full of powder to keep the weight variation the lowest possible.

On my return call to Dillon about the powder weight variance problem that I was having the rep told me that I was asking too much from a powder measure in the way of accuracy. I don't consider .3 to .4 grains too much to ask on a 5 grain or so load. Almost 10% is nothing to sneeze at.

I told the rep that I had used the Lee swivel adapter and riser on my Dillon 1050 along with the auto disk powder measure and was getting consistant .2 grain or less variance in weight and he had a fit. I was "putting trash on a fine press, Dillons finest." I told him that the Lee auto disk measure may be trash in his eyes, but it's twice as accurate and consistent as the "fine Dillon powder measure."

Sometimes I think Dillon gets a bit too full of itself. Sort of like the blue Koolaid.

They do make a good product, but the price and attitude could use an adjustment.

[stargzer]

Dillon for the most part does make a quality product, but it seems that the people that you get on the phone can be hit or miss the last 5 or so years, as I have written in a previous post about Dillon customer service.

Sometimes I think Dillon gets a bit too full of itself. Sort of like the blue Koolaid.
They do make a good product, but the price and attitude could use an adjustment.

I have to agree with Flutedchamber. I have tried several times to let Dillion Customer Service make amends to their ways.....to no avail. Just called the other day....AMOF, day after Christmas for a replacement to a broken piece of equipment and maybe the rep was not happy to be working on the day after Christmas. I had to work, like most of us, so didn't know what his problem was. I think it is mostly "MISS" instead of "HIT" with Dillion Reps. Almost everyone of them seems to be either annoyed or too busy to want to help. The last four or five calls to Dillion was not a very good experience. I will say that the equipment is great...too bad they can get the human part RIGHT! Yes, and pricey. BTW, I don't think they use Caller ID....they ask for your customer number or Zip Code, I'm sure they put remarks into your profile, so you are immediately singled out even if the agent you get has never spoken to you. Its a common practice in many service industries. :groner:

Additional edit: as I lay waiting for sleep to take over, I realized one thing I forgot. As one who has previously and currently working in the Service industry, this type of "profiling" is NOT EXCEPTABLE, no matter what the servicing agent perceives or feels. If my manager suspects any of these to be going on where I work , the person or persons involved are severely reprimanded and the profiling is immediately removed. I think Dillions Manager or Managers of applicable departments are failing to take care of this.:holysheep I have spoken to their manager and still not felt great about Dillion Service (I felt he was also annoyed with me or I interrupted something he was doing). Heck, maybe he read my "PROFILE". Sure there may not seem to be very many who are dissatisfied (not with the product) with customer service, ONE PERSON....should be all it takes for them to look in to the problem and correct it. Instead of being annoyed at the customer, the agent should be asking questions, like "HOW CAN I, HELP YOU? WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PROBLEM IS? WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP YOU FIX THIS PROBLEM? SEND YOU A SPRING, LOCATOR BUTTON, SET SCREW, WHATEVER? If you are in the Manufacturing and service industry.....bottom line is "The Customer should be treated with respect and is usually 99% of the time, RIGHT.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY.......even to the folks at DILLION.;) Maybe they will get it together in 2009.

[Castoff]

While it is not my intent to Bash" Dillon, the truth of the matter is reflected in my greater than 12 year experience with them.
I feel Dillon products are over engineered and therefore overly complicated.
The two problems I have found are.
1)- the powder measures are inaccurate.
Dillon employees have said to me their powder measure will only meter to +/- 1.5 grains per charge.
This is totally unacceptable .In the final analysis, I do not believe I can trust a Dillon powder measure to safely throw a charge.
2)- their primer system allows primers to shake and flip over, thus jamming the machine. This is a frequent occurrence, no matter how careful the operator is not to allow any vibrations during the operation of the press.

I have been thought about these problems many times and have talked to Dillon many, many times about how to solve them.
There is no way to solve them as there are inherent in the design of the product.
My Dillon presses are "high maintainence "items.This means a lot of down time with adjustments and repairs.

Laugh as may at Lee products, Lee products work well and are reliabe; and are less costly in both dollars and time.
That is the bottom line.

[jim4065]

I have a little experience with the Hornady now - reloaded 1500 out of 2000 38 Specials. It's a great machine, and I'm very satisfied.

An interesting thing - the Dillon rep was right (in a way) about the Lee dies. While he chose unfortunate words, which cost the sale, the Lee sizer needs a tapered opening to work with a Progressive loader (or at least with the Hornady machine). A straight wall case can cock just a skosh in the shellplate and sometimes needs to be aligned slightly with the "off side" index finger to run it into the die. Incidentally, this simply never happened with the same die on the Lee Classic Turret. It does slow down production, but that's not a factor in why I bought a Progressive. It may seem odd, but I'm not trying to load "fast". My problem with the turret was simply the number of pulls with rotation required for my right arm - it got so I could only load 100 cases a day. Too much pain in the right elbow. The Hornady helps out a lot - as would any Progressive press.

As a side note for anyone using the Dillon/Hornady case feeder plates, the suggested "Large Pistol" plate is a poor choice for the 38 Special (and probably for the 38 S&W, 357 Magnum and 357 Maximum also but I haven't got around to them yet). The two pistol feeder plates, large and small, handle cases with the axis of the case parallel with the axis of the plate. The opening on the large plate will allow an extra case to sometimes wedge in there which gums up the works very quickly. The small plate is slower to "find" a case in the proper orientation to pick it up, but at least it doesn't jam with two cases in the same hole.

[Uncle Jefro]

Howdy Jim, I started out on a Lee Classic Turret, great little press for what it does. For progressive I went with the Hornady LNL AP, and could not be more satisfied. It will make ammo as fast as I can feed cases and bullets, and pull the handle. I did my home work for over a year before buying a progressive and always came back to the LNL. I checked out Dillon 550 and 650, and heard all about blue, Dillon makes a great press, I just decided on maroon. I preferred the ease of caliber change with about the same features as a 650 for the price of a 550. I had planned on using the Lee factory crimp die, but found I really liked the Hornady seat-crimp die. Even though I bought the powder through expander die, I found it easier to just us the expander die, without it I would have had an empty station anyhow. I set mine up a little different than what I've seen and find it to be very efficient. Station 1 deprime-size, station 2 expander, station 3 powder, station 4 powder cop, station 5 seat-crimp. The powder cop is a must. One thing I knew about from my research, is the primer tube works better with a little pressure to feed smoothly when the primers run low. Some folks use a brass or dowel rod, I made mine from a coat hanger and ground the end flat and smooth. I added a flag to mine to let me know when the primers are running low. I think Dillon makes one for thiers. A case feeder is on the wish list, but don't know if it will really speed things up that much. As soon as I see the powder cop, I have a case and boolit ready. Good Luck

Uncle Jefro

[AZ Pete]

I have a couple of Dillon presses. A 550b and a SDB. I have been to Dillon, at their current location and the one previous. My shooting bud worked for Dillon for several years.

What I can tell you about their service is that they rebuilt my SDB, gratis a couple of years ago. Replaced every small part, including the plastic tube on the powder measure. They have sent me replacement springs, and other small parts based on a phone call. They even sent me a complete priming mechanism for my SDB, because I asked for a spring for the old style primer feed. The guy on the phone said "let me send you a new feed, it has been improved, what primer size do you want?".

I tried RCBS dies in my 550b (in 45acp), because I had them, when I bought the press, (I love RCBS too), however they did not work well, due to the lack of a "funnel" in the carbide sizing ring (because they were designed for a single stage press). Dillon dies are designed for progressive presses, and are easier to work with on a progressive, IMHO, due to the ability to quickly strip them for claeaning and the shape of the carbide sizing ring.

Those among us who will let, what we precieve as, an attitude from a single employee, sour us on a manufacturer, store or whatever, are punishing ourselves. Get over it. That voice on the phone wasn't Mike Dillon, or his son (that now runs the place). It was a guy that rubbed you wrong. Complain to the company about his attitude, then buy what you really wanted.

[Geraldo]

AZ Pete,

That's interesting that you had problems with RCBS dies in a 550B. I put my RCBS carbide .45acp dies in a 550 toolhead and got to work. I've never had a hitch with them. Obviously some non-Dillon dies work and some don't, so it's got to be a related to when the dies were made, or which lot they were in. I've also been using a Dillon powder measure and the charge has never varied by more than .1gr.

[Firebricker]

I would recomend ording through Brian Enos website same price super service he went over hole order with me politely made a few suggestions. shipped directly from dillion. As far as dies ive used lee dies on my 550 they will work but i like reddings much better !! still will not help shape up that smart but salesman but hope that might help somebody else down the road

[stargzer]

Those among us who will let, what we precieve as, an attitude from a single employee, sour us on a manufacturer, store or whatever, are punishing ourselves. Get over it. That voice on the phone wasn't Mike Dillon, or his son (that now runs the place). It was a guy that rubbed you wrong. Complain to the company about his attitude, then buy what you really wanted.

Wheather percieved or not, a "an attitude" is Uncalled for.....PERIOD!

I have written to Mike Dillion.......care to guess what happened?

[hotwheelz]

For those of you who have a had bad service did you let them know right then ? Did you talk to the manager ? Hanging up the phone and then complaining about it seems unfair to me. I will not put up with poor service from anyone , I will give them a chance to remedy the situation . Most company will bend over backwards to make you happy given the chance todo so.

[mtgrs737]

I have used Lee, RCBS, Redding and Hornady dies in my 550B with excellent results, I don't even own a set of Dillon dies. If it were not for Lee we would be paying $80 for a set of carbide dies, Lee has held the cost of dies down through cost management and new ideas. 25 years ago a set of RCBS dies cost me $40 then Lee came out with theirs at $17 a set. Today's Midway sale price for those same 45acp carbide dies is $39, THANK YOU MR. LEE!

I am in the gunsafe sales business, I try to never talk down a competitors product, but it is hard not to when discussing features on safes. Sales is a tough job, and some salesmen get carried away with themselves, some are dishonest, I know I could never sell cars. I try to state facts and let the customer decide for themselves, I do try to educate buyers though.

I will add that I have always had good luck with Dillon, they stand behind their product.

[flutedchamber]

For those of you who have a had bad service did you let them know right then ? Did you talk to the manager ? Hanging up the phone and then complaining about it seems unfair to me. I will not put up with poor service from anyone , I will give them a chance to remedy the situation . Most company will bend over backwards to make you happy given the chance todo so.

In all of my instances of bad service I fully explained what happened to the next person that I talked to on the phone. Where it went after that I cannot tell. By what I have read my experiences were not unique.

It's a shame. Dillon WAS a good company to deal with. Now I deal with eguns.com. I don't have to worry if a salesman or tech had a bad day prior to picking getting my call.