Ornery Brass

[Alstep]

I was given a bucket of Winchester 38+P nickel plated brass a while ago, once fired, off a law enforcement range. Started sizing & decapping it, and a lot of the primers will not punch out. The primer punch punches out the bottom of the primer, leaving the sides of the primer in the pocket. The resulting burr protruding on the cartridge base makes removing the shell almost impossible to remove from the shell holder. I have to use small hammer & a flat punch on the side of the shell to remove it from the shell holder. This happens on probably 20% of the shells. I've never encountered this problem on such a large scale in 60 years of reloading. This stuff would play hell on a progressive press, & really foul it up. No other make of brass has ever given me such grief.
Anybody else encounter this problem?

[Dapaki]

Stoopid question for ya Alstep... are ya' sure the hole under the brass is clear?

[RedHawk357Mag]

When I buy brass from brass resellers and it's been wet tumbled with primers in I get alot of described results. Also recent CCI small pistol have started gripping the depriming stem more often than before. Primer gets pushed out and gets semi reseated when ram goes down. Winchester and Federal haven't followed the trend albeit I haven't punched a large quantity of known Federal. But wet brass with expended primer in case is the devil.

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[Winger Ed.]

Be sure the decap pin isn't sharp.

For the burrs, use a dremil or something to carve the trench in the shell holder a little deeper
to make room for the burr on the problem children to slide out.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If the primers aren't crimped and/or sealed, then I suspect corrosion. Did they spend anytime on the ground at a outdoor range, being subjected to rain or dew? The only other thing I can think of, is wet tumbling and not being dried out completely in a timely manner.

[GregLaROCHE]

Maybe you can find or make a larger diameter de-priming pin.

[Land Owner]

Dip a few in a few drops of 50/50 rubbing alcohol and penetrating oil - leave overnight - then try depriming.

[Mk42gunner]

I vote for corrosion. As others stated use some penetrating oil and let it sit for a while, then the primers should come out easier.

38+P from a LEO range tells me it is several years old, or at least hints strongly at it.

Robert

[nannyhammer]

Had it happen with brass that had gotten wet. I just pitched them in the recycle bucket since I had plenty of brass.

[lightman]

Had it happen with brass that had gotten wet. I just pitched them in the recycle bucket since I had plenty of brass.

Same thing here. Too much trouble for the rewards. Mine were 9mm. And I suspect moisture was the cause.

[Toymaker]

YES!!!!!! In both brass and nickel plated but ESPECIALLY in the plated. My percentage was a LOT higher than yours. Someone above mentioned wet tumbling and I think that may be the issue because I do wet tumble brass that looks really dirty before running it through the de-priming, sizing, loading process. THAT's the brass I have issues with.

My solution was to stand them up in a shallow pan and put 5 or 6 drops of Kroil in the case. Leave them sit at least overnight and the primers popped right out like they're supposed to.

[Dusty Bannister]

I may have to try that soaking to make the primer removal easier. Perhaps the divider from a box of cartridges, cases base up, a drop of ATF and let set overnight. Wipe, off excess and deprime as normal.

[Drew P]

I bet heating them a little with a torch would help them along too. Couple seconds maybe 150° or so. Can be a drag. This is one of the many reasons I love Dillon dies, the deprime stem is spring loaded and launches that thing out like a howitzer. And gives an audible snap to let you know it means business.

[jdfoxinc]

ladder? Ago I bought a large batch of military .45 acp. Same problem.

[rbuck351]

I stored a box of 38 spl nickle brass where it got water in it. I didn't think it would hurt anything so months later I dried it and loaded some. Quite a few popped the center out of the primer and left the outer edge stuck in the case. They must corrode to the case. I never bothered to try anything to fix the problem, just pitched the ones that stuck.

[Land Owner]

I bet heating them a little...

After half a drop of penetrating oil on cases upended in one of those Mfg's plastic holders, a little hair dryer heat will help get it down into the crack. Heat them, not really very hot, nor for vey long, then deprime a few. The expansion of the two dissimilar metals should loosen the corrosion and the oil will gives it lubricity for the press to push them apart without ripping through the primer.

Not too much heat or the primer pocket will get too loose to hold the new primer. Did that once to 500 pieces of 223 brass over a grill and wasted the lot of them. Just like burning money...live and learn.

I think we waste more oil in its overuse than just a half of a drop, which is all that is needed with a touch of heat.

[Petrol & Powder]

With this opening line from the first post - "I was given a bucket of Winchester 38+P nickel plated brass a while ago....."

I might be inclined to accept a loss rate of 20% rather than expending a significant amount of time trying to save the cases with stuck primers. I don't know how large that bucket is but 80% of a Bucket is likely hundreds of casings. It may sound wasteful to discard 1 in 5 casings into the recycling pile but time is valuable and this brass was free to start with.

[Dusty Bannister]

While I agree that it would generally not be cost effective to process a whole bucket of free brass, it is a good thread in the event that a purchase turns out to be subject to this kind of problem. Seems like the solution is easy enough, if the reward is worth the effort. Perhaps just leave it up to the individual who knows the value of his time.

[lightman]

When I trade or sell brass I deprime it so that this does not happen to the other party.

[gwpercle]

I've encountered it with outdoor range pick up brass , a little moisture from dew or rain and they get a tiny bit of corrosion and the primers stick . I put a drop of penetrating oil on the primer and try again after a few hours (24 - 48 usually does it ).
Being the frugal person I am I always try to salvage any "free" brass .
Gary

[pastera]

Had it happen with brass that had gotten wet. I just pitched them in the recycle bucket since I had plenty of brass.

^ this - If it got wet and sat for a while, you will have quite a few that won't deprime.

If you need the brass then see what you can salvage.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm frugal (read that as meaning I'm a tight wad) but there comes a point where the value of my time exceeds what I'm trying to save.

If I was trying to save some obscure casings that were difficult to acquire, I would put forth a lot of effort. But trying to save 20% of a "bucket" of 38 Special casings that were free to start with ? I'm probably going to reach the point of diminishing returns for my time & effort pretty quickly.

[Alstep]

Thanks all for your interesting comments. This was a 5 gal bucket of brass, nice & clean, got it about 10-15 years or so ago, stored inside & dry. Also got a bucket of R-P & Speer at the same time & no problem with them. It was just the Winchester +P that gave me fits. The bad ones got scrapped, but an annoying situation just the same. Since it was free, I can't complain too much. But of all the brass I've reloaded through the years, this batch was the most ornery I've ever encountered.

[44magLeo]

I know that when pulling bullets from older cartridges it helps to seat them a bit deeper first makes pulling easier.
Perhaps this would work with these cases. Try seating the primers a bit deeper. You may not move the primer much but it may be enough to break the grip of any corrosion between primer and case.
Won't cost anything but time.
Leo

[GregLaROCHE]

It’s interesting to find out that corrosion can make them so hard to get out. Most military brass with crimped primers can usually be de-primed without too much difficulty. I would hate to deal with brass that was corroded and crimped.

[Winger Ed.]

It’s interesting to find out that corrosion can make them so hard to get out. Most military brass with crimped primers can usually be de-primed without too much difficulty. .

GI brass has a lacquer paint that is basically the same as cheap finger nail polish over the primer to keep evil spirits out.
That would be the difference.

[Mk42gunner]

It’s interesting to find out that corrosion can make them so hard to get out. Most military brass with crimped primers can usually be de-primed without too much difficulty. I would hate to deal with brass that was corroded and crimped.


GI brass has a lacquer paint that is basically the same as cheap finger nail polish over the primer to keep evil spirits out.
That would be the difference.
Actually, the brass that I dealt with that had the corrosion problem was 7.62 and 5.56 fired from rifles that I collected prior to my retirement from the Navy. I had at least one wooden ammo box of brass of each caliber that got wet and sat for a few years.

When I went to start a new batch of 100 rounds I found that the primers had corroded enough to pop the top of the primer off while leaving the ring in the primer pocket. Whether the primers corroded to the case or just weakened their tops I'm not sure, but they were tough to punch out even when they stayed together using my Rockchucker.

My solution was to stand the cases up in the bottom of an ice cream bucket with penetrating oil in the bottom and spraying a bit inside each case. After sitting for a few days the primers easily punched out using a Lyman 310 tong tool (new to me purchase and the cases were handy for testing).

After depriming and swaging the primer pockets, I tumbled the brass in walnut hulls to remove the oil. No lasting ill effects that I have been able to see.

Robert

[Walter Laich]

When I buy brass from brass resellers and it's been wet tumbled with primers in I get alot of described results. Also recent CCI small pistol have started gripping the depriming stem more often than before. Primer gets pushed out and gets semi reseated when ram goes down. Winchester and Federal haven't followed the trend albeit I haven't punched a large quantity of known Federal. But wet brass with expended primer in case is the devil.

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this is reason I deprime before wet tumbling. it's an extra step but saves time and frustration in long run

[fatelk]

I just had this exact same problem. I got a bunch of cheap .38 Special brass and a bunch of them did the same thing when depriming. Each time, I had to stop and wiggle it out of the shell holder.

I'm cheap and stubborn, and can't stand the thought of tossing good brass. If it had been 9mm maybe I'd scrap it, but .38 is worth a little more nowadays. I have a special little tool I made years ago for just this problem. It only takes a couple seconds to pop the little ring out of the primer pocket.

I wish I'd have thought of penetrating oil. I'll keep that one in mind for next time. Thank you!

[Dapaki]

I must be lucky, I have never had a single primer do that! Don't get me wrong, i have had plenty of aggravating problems but never a stuck primer. Good luck Alstep!

[KCcactus]

I had it happen with about 4 pieces of once fired Federal 38s in a batch I bought. Never had it happen with any brass I wet tumbled with primers in and dried. All of my pistol brass is cleaned that way.

[Wayne Smith]

Hey Al! I think I know why you got them free! I had some 38Special brass do the same thing a number of years go. Hasn't happened since.

[Big Boomer]

I de-prime all my brass by hand prior to wet-tumble with stainless steel pins. The only trouble like this happened with some .38 Special military brass but they had not been wet. S&B primers may have been a factor in my case. Can't be sure, though. Big Boomer

[GregLaROCHE]

this is reason I deprime before wet tumbling. it's an extra step but saves time and frustration in long run

I don’t tumble my brass, but I can’t understand why you wouldn’t déprime before. The hardest part in cleaning brass by hand are the primer pockets. Do people tumble their brass with the primers left in and then déprime and clean the pockets by hand? Doesn’t make sense to me.

[lightman]

I must be lucky, I have never had a single primer do that! Don't get me wrong, i have had plenty of aggravating problems but never a stuck primer. Good luck Alstep!

I reloaded for a number of years using range brass before I ever experienced this. Now it seems to be a lot more common.

[TRAPDOOR 4570]

I had the same problem about 10-15 years ago. 2000+ nickel P+, same headstamp, uncleaned still had the case mouth smudging. Had to be from an indoor range or ammo manufactures test house
Had 2 detonations in a Lee progressive, not a pretty thing to see or hear. No corrosion to the brass involved. I put the problem down to improperly annealed brass used to make the primer cup. Some cases pushed out the dimple from the firing pin others the cup would completely shear off or partly shear the bottom of the primer cup.
After the second detonation I set the press up with just the carbide sizer. Ran over 2000 through then inspected each case. I found around 20-30 cases that went into the scrap bucket. Been loading for over 55 years and never had this problem before or since.

[Wayne Smith]

Mine was in a bunch of brass I bought here used, supposedly once fired. Who knows how they had been stored/treated.

[KCcactus]

Do people tumble their brass with the primers left in and then déprime and clean the pockets by hand? Doesn’t make sense to me.

I can't speak for others, but I don't clean the primer pockets of my pistol brass. I'm loading for recreational shooting, not competition. My rifle brass gets wet tumbled after depriming.