Beginner Casting questions - what am I doing wrong here?

[Leoparddog]

I've only been casting for a few months, mostly its gone pretty well and I've figured out a few things. Today though was the first day with a new to me (aka. used) 5 gang mold 200gr SWC .452 from NOE. I'm running my lead about 650-700 degrees by thermometer and use a pretty large Lyman ladle that will hold enough lead to fill all 5 cavities and have some left over.

Questions: Today some of these bullets were perfect or close enough and then I started getting some with mold lines. I thought maybe I wasn't squeezing the handles tight enough or that I had something between the mold blocks. I checked that with my gloved hand and didn't see any junk in there. Holding the mold up to the light, I didn't see any gaps with light coming through. It started to get a bit worse I think as I went and the mold got hotter at the end some of them were getting "fingers". First time I've seen this but again, a new to me mold. I have other molds from NOE and haven't experienced this.

Fluxing and skimming? When I flux, stir it down and skim I'm (bees wax today) I get a some black junk that I skim off and try not to remove much metal. I guess I'm worried that I'm actually removing tin and antimony. Today my pot stayed "junky" which was also a bit unusual for what I've done in the past. The attached photo of the pot is at the end of the casting session and I've still got junk. I took my spoon and pulled it over to the side to make it bit more clear. Is that tin or zinc or ??? The lead I'm working with is second hand Wheel Weights. It had been used as race car lead. They took a valve cover and filled it with 100lbs of WW lead and I busted it up, melted it down and fluxed it when casting into ingots. So it is a an unknown mixture of whatever they had thrown into the valve cover when it was first melted down. Any feed back on what I'm seeing on top of my lead would be appreciated.

The third photo is of the mold. Am I opening it too soon? I'm pouring a good sized sprue puddle but getting some voids. What am I doing wrong? This is the first time I've cast with a 5 gang mold and haven't had this issue with single, double or the one triple molds I have.

Thanks

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[Bazoo]

By the way, howdy from ky and welcome to the CB.GL forum.

Mould lines as the mould gets hot? Sounds like you're dropping too soon and the bullets are getting slightly deformed from twisting slightly as the mould opens.

The pot junk seems like you need to flux more often and probably better to start with. I like wax to flux with clean lead. But with dirty lead I use sawdust to help remove that junk then flux again with wax when clean. You need to stir more. When you flux, stir your dipper too, and get any junk off it with a spoon for the outside and a stick for the inside.

The holes in the sprue cut is inclusions from needing to flux. Not to be confused with the pot hole like torn sprues from opening the sprue cutter a touch soon. Those torn sprues are not a concern for me unless shooting for the highest score. Those inclusions get rejected though for my bullets.

If you had zinc you'd have oatmeal looking foamy sludge. You'd know it.

As far as losing tin, nah. Flux with a thumbnail sized chunk of wax and stir for 2 minutes straight and anything you skim will be junk. Scrape the sides and bottom of your pot well.

[Drew P]

Either your mold is warped or more likely there’s something keeping the halves from mating up. Could be the pins or a small bit of lead that escaped somehow. Look for light.

[GregLaROCHE]

If you are starting with wheel weights or lead that hasn’t been properly fluxed before, you definitely need to start with sawdust or another carbon based flux. When my sawdust wasn’t dry I used Quaker Oats once. After the sawdust droth is skimmed off, then use the bee’s wax to flux. You might try a little hotter too.

In the picture, the the mold lines look individual. The ones I’ve had were all connected on each side. Hopefully someone will recognize what they are from.

[Tazlaw]

Looks like you got some good info to start with. I don’t know about the “fingers.” As far as not knowing what’s in your lead, I read another post where there was a member who would test it for you for a small ingot. Don’t quote me on what another member will or won’t do, I just had read that one member would. My lead is all range scrap so I haven’t had it tested yet. But I may. I’ll have to do a search and try to find that post.

[Tazlaw]

Here is a post that may let you find him.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?386832-Anyone-know-if-BNE-is-still-testing

[onelight]

Well I have been casting at least 45 years and I am still a novice compared to a lot of the folks here .
But when I have lead flowing into the vent lines I think maybe my mold is to hot.

[Leoparddog]

I took the mold downstairs when it was cool and put it under a lighted magnifying glass. I can see some dark schmutz along the edge of a couple of the cavities, so I may have opened it a bit quickly and it may be a bit of lead. So thinking about how to clean the inside edges of the mold without damaging it. Propane torch and heavy cloth? 3M abrasive pad? 000 steel wool?

[Leoparddog]

So when I started with this batch of lead it was very junky, sloppy WW and I fluxed multiple times with sawdust before making ingots. When I go back I'll flux it a third time with sawdust and try to get it clean. I was worried that I was scraping tin off the surface so good to know that's not the case and I'll work at getting the lead cleaner next time before making my cupcake ingots.

[Winger Ed.]

Stir & flux more, add more pure Lead and/or lower the temp.
Wait a few more seconds before you cut the sprue.

I don't go more than about 15 minutes before I stir again.
I'm not sure if the goodies will stratify that soon or not, I just stir anyway.

I don't clean the inside cavities of the mold with anything more aggressive than a Q-Tip after it has soaked in solvent.

[Dusty Bannister]

If you have no "whiskers" on the casting when starting out, and then they begin forming, it might be due to overheating the mold and perhaps the previous owner "improved" the vent lines which allows the allow to flow into those lines. This will also give you a satin sheen and eventually a more obvious frosted finish to the bullets. Slow down the pace when you start seeing the whiskers and see if that does not resolve the issue. Some will suggest touching the mold to a damp rag, but just slowing the pace should show you if that is an issue or not. I am guessing you are pouring the alloy into the mold and not pressure filling. Each time you fill the mold you are adding more heat so the faster you pour, the more the mold heats up. Good luck.

[Bazoo]

To clean a little lead from the mould faces I heat the mould where it would be over hot for casting, open it and try rubbing a course cotton rag against it. Like a shop towel or dish rag. If that doesn't suffice I heat again and scrape with my pencil.

Heating half the mould with a touch is a bad idea because most likely it will be unevenly heated and might warp. Heating on the lead heats it slowly and evenly with virtually no danger of damage.

[Leoparddog]

Thanks Winger, Bazoo and Dusty. I would have taken the propane torch to it tomorrow. I'll go for a more gentle method and try the pencil. I have a hotplate I can sit it on to warm it up. I don't think the previous owner (a forum member here) did anything untoward to the mold as it started out casting fine. I probably opened it a bit too soon with the mold being too warm and got a smidge of lead on the edge of one or more cavities.

[Drew P]

I like the pencil for cleaning out any boogies

[fcvan]

unused wooden chopsticks are my 'go to.' I use the narrow end for dipping into 2 cycle oil, letting it mostly drip off (or wipe, there will be enough in the wood grain) for lubing the locator pins/surfaces and even the underside of the sprue plate. being careful not to get any in the cavity is a given.

I use the wide flat end of the chopstick for scraping off any lead smear or splatter. I had a new aluminium mold that came with a burr. I rubbed the side of the stick on the burr until it was removed. Wood is a good tool for aluminium or brass molds, a pocket knife, not so much.

[fredj338]

Well I have been casting at least 45 years and I am still a novice compared to a lot of the folks here .
But when I have lead flowing into the vent lines I think maybe my mold is to hot.

OR pressure casting, holding the ladle/pour spout in full contact with the spru plate.

[Leoparddog]

OR pressure casting, holding the ladle/pour spout in full contact with the spru plate.

I was definitely pressure casting and the ones with the whiskers and mold lines were the first two that would have gotten the most pressure and hottest lead. So yeah, I'll clean this up and give it all a second casting session in the near future. I will also shoot those just the way they are. I think they'll be fine for plinking after powder coating and sizing. That steel plate won't care how pretty the boolit is.

[Bazoo]

I get the best results with about 1/2-3/4" free fall. Both in terms of fillout and not having inclusions caused by the oxidized film.

Nothing wrong with shooting those bullets. You get too picky and you won't ever have bullets to shoot. I've become a little more picky as time has passed but it depends on the application too. Plinking bullets for my 45 I ain't as picky about as say, 31141s for my 30-30.

[Leoparddog]

Thanks Bazoo, I'll give the "free fall" method a try next time I'm at the pot. It seems it would make a bigger sprue mess on the sprue place which is why I've done the full contact pouring up until now. They turned out pretty well for a first run with this mold and I'm pretty happy. I'll do downstairs with a chopstick and see if I can rub off that bit of lead. Here is what I got done yesterday
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[Bazoo]

I pour over the pot so I don't have much mess. I get lead all over the mould, at the end of casting I heat the mould on the lead again and wipe it clean of splatter with a rag.

[jcren]

All due respect to the good advise already given, looks like you are just getting confident enough to overheat your mold a bit and the pressure casting is making it worse. Pressure casting is mostly needed for older/larger molds with either inadequate venting or huge bullets that try to cool as you pour. Lead bits between the blocks look like silver dots with black around them, and are easily removed with a stick; pencil, or coarse rag/glove when hot. Casting too fast gets the blocks hot enough to keep the lead liquid long enough to look for somewhere to go, i.e. vent whiskers or flash between the blocks and sprue plate. Slow down a bit between pours and if you start to see pronounced mold lines or fins on the bullet base, leave the blocks open for several seconds before the next pour. Some guys also use a metal plate or damp rag to pull some heat from the mold before the next pour. If you coole the mold too much, you will see wrinkles or creases due to the lead freezing as it fills the mold. If you keep having to cool the mold, turn the melt temp down a bit to match your mold and cadence.

[Tazlaw]

Thanks Bazoo, I'll give the "free fall" method a try next time I'm at the pot. It seems it would make a bigger sprue mess on the sprue place which is why I've done the full contact pouring up until now. They turned out pretty well for a first run with this mold and I'm pretty happy. I'll do downstairs with a chopstick and see if I can rub off that bit of lead. Here is what I got done yesterday
257451257452

Very nice!

[jsizemore]

I keep a couple sprues around to use as an eraser if lead builds up on the mold top , faces or sprue plate. Especially effective when the mold is still up to temp.

[44Blam]

Looks like you got a booger of lead in your mold that is holding it open...

Check it and scrape off the offending lead. I would use wood (chopstick as mentioned above?) or maybe a copper brush - something soft for sure.

[44Blam]

I keep a couple sprues around to use as an eraser if lead builds up on the mold top , faces or sprue plate. Especially effective when the mold is still up to temp.

Or this seems like a really good idea... Will have to steal it.

[owejia]

Casting lead boolits seems to be part skill, part luck and a lot of voo-doo. Using the same mould for the last couple of days same temp. alloy but the second cavity will not fill out about ever dozen casts. Can pressure cast two or three times and then it work for about another dozen cast. This is an RCBS 84 gr 32 cal mould. The first two boolits cast when new were perfect, no break in period or any problems until today. Patience grasshopper. Rant over. Guess voo-doo does exist.

[fredj338]

I get the best results with about 1/2-3/4" free fall. Both in terms of fillout and not having inclusions caused by the oxidized film.

Nothing wrong with shooting those bullets. You get too picky and you won't ever have bullets to shoot. I've become a little more picky as time has passed but it depends on the application too. Plinking bullets for my 45 I ain't as picky about as say, 31141s for my 30-30.

I use a bottom pour & pressure cast but it is a balance of when to remove the mold from the spout & create the sprue. Works for me. The Magma caster has about 1/2" gap & pours directly into the cavs, also works for me.

[curioushooter]

I would try fluxing with sawdust or tallow. Let the ash float which will protect the alloy from oxidizing somewhat. Though this may be hard to manage with a ladle. I have never used a ladle to pour in a multi-cavity mold, and I think it would be difficult. I have a bottom pour pot so I can't help you there. I also use a much bigger pot (a Lee 4-20) and cover the top with aluminum foil. This keeps the alloy at a more steady temp and the weight of that big pot pushes the alloy out fast which helps get those multi-cavity molds filled quick.

Aluminum molds have always worked well for me, and NOEs are excellent in my experience, and I've never heard of one warping. You may need to adjust your alignment pins since this was a new mold I am assuming. Many used iron molds have required this for me.

[popper]

Sprue plate is loose - getting flash on the base. Didn't say what alloy, lots of tin will flow into vent lines easy and thermometer may not be accurate, too hot alloy. Typically space between blocks shows fins, not fingers.

[Leoparddog]

I'm guessing at the alloy but it was COWW originally. It was race car lead that had been melted down from WW. I picked up 150# a few years back. Unless I'm buying it commerically it always seems to be a bit of a guess for me what the truth is about the alloy. I've been cheap so far and not spent the money for a lead hardness tester. I've read about pencils and fingernails but I can't scratch anything with my nails and the pencil idea, I guess I could go back and study on that some. Should I invest in a hardness tester? If so, what would be recommended?

[Bazoo]

Hardness tester might be nice to have. I don't have one though. Keep your eyes peeled and you can get one reasonable here.

My unscientific approach is to take a razor knife and cut a sliver off of both the suspect lead and either a wheel weight or it's ingot. This tells me yep, ww alloy. I have a single ingot of Linotype but haven't run into any type yet.

The exact alloy for pistol bullets, or it's hardness is often inconsiquential. If you have any issues with fillout add tin.

I had some alloy once that was wheel weight alloy but I just couldn't get it to work even with tin. Fillout issues and wrinkles even though I was running my mould hot enough to frost. Well in the Lyman manual it says you sometimes will encounter an ornery batch of lead like that. It suggests making it into ingots and using it up a little at a time with another batch. That's what I did.

[Leoparddog]

I cleaned up the mold with a lead carpenters pencil this week and sat down this weekend for round 2 with this mold. It went much better with all your good advice. Stopped pressure casting and figured out how to ride the ladle down the mold and free pour from about 1/2" away. I got about 350 cast, coated and sized this weekend and started running them through the Dillon 650XL. I'll run out of cases before I load all of these so I guess I'll have to go do some shooting soon. Thanks everyone
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[Bazoo]

Glad you're getting the hang of it sir.

[onelight]

Good job !

[curioushooter]

Hardness tester might be nice to have.

I bought my Lee Hardness tester years ago and never looked back. It works though it is a pain to get that microscope lined up. Anything smaller than 30 caliber forget about getting an accurate reading.

The LBT is a good one too. My friend has one. But with what LBT is charging for a new one I would search for a used one.

The SAECO one doesn't give BHN outputs, but I think it can be converted. Everyone that has one seems to like it. It is very portable and good thing to bring along to the scrap yard. Whereas the Lee is more finicky to use afield and the LBT is a fragile thing that you need to take care with.

I believe Cabine Tree made one years ago, and still may. It was well regarded.

[fredj338]

I cleaned up the mold with a lead carpenters pencil this week and sat down this weekend for round 2 with this mold. It went much better with all your good advice. Stopped pressure casting and figured out how to ride the ladle down the mold and free pour from about 1/2" away. I got about 350 cast, coated and sized this weekend and started running them through the Dillon 650XL. I'll run out of cases before I load all of these so I guess I'll have to go do some shooting soon. Thanks everyone
257789
Looks great! I love Skittles!

[fredj338]

Hardness tester might be nice to have. I don't have one though. Keep your eyes peeled and you can get one reasonable here.

My unscientific approach is to take a razor knife and cut a sliver off of both the suspect lead and either a wheel weight or it's ingot. This tells me yep, ww alloy. I have a single ingot of Linotype but haven't run into any type yet.

The exact alloy for pistol bullets, or it's hardness is often inconsiquential. If you have any issues with fillout add tin.

I had some alloy once that was wheel weight alloy but I just couldn't get it to work even with tin. Fillout issues and wrinkles even though I was running my mould hot enough to frost. Well in the Lyman manual it says you sometimes will encounter an ornery batch of lead like that. It suggests making it into ingots and using it up a little at a time with another batch. That's what I did.
I don't sweat bhn that much but use a cabin Tree tester when I am just curious. Yes if you get a pot of alloy that just isn't working out, it may have some contamination with zinc. You can turn the pot up & flux the poop out of it or drain half & add known alloy back in.
This happened to me once when a buddy gave me some 15# bricks of "lead" but there was a lot of zinc in them & it froze my Magma up. Cranked it up & drained half out, put back in some known ww alloy & back to normal. I then just used up the rest of the 15# bricks sparingly.