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nelson133
12-17-2005, 09:11 AM
Has anyone had much experience with a Marlin 336 with microgroove barrel? I've read that the microgroove is most unfriendly to cast bullets, but I'd like to try them.

imashooter2
12-17-2005, 09:23 AM
I, and many others here, shoot cast bullets through microgroove Marlins with success. The basic rules are size them large and make them hard. Gas checks will make life easier too. My 30AS barrel slugs right at .308. I shoot WW + 1% tin bullets water quenched from the mold, sized at .311.

JDL
12-17-2005, 10:21 AM
My 1977 vintage 336A has no problem shooting air cooled wheelweights to 1850 fps, some sized .309". Slug your barrel to see if there's any tight spots in it as some Marlins are known to have this problem. Slug the throat and first part of the barrel to find what diameter it is, fit your boolits, go forth, and enjoy. :-D -JDL

Singletree
12-17-2005, 12:24 PM
Marlin 336 in 30-30 using Lyman's 311291 will shoot very close to 1inch at fifty yards, 5 shot group with the help of a 2X7 scope. Sized either to .308 or .310, don't seem to make a lot of difference.
Model 62 will only do about 2 inches at fifty, still working with this one.

castalott
12-17-2005, 12:50 PM
I work at the other end of the spectrum with my 336...

I shoot 311410 ( plain base 130 grain) with 4.5 grains of a fast shotgun powder. It is ww or softer...( softer works just great...maybe better!). It stays on the silhouettes offhand just fine. I run mine thru a .311 star sizer but they fall out of the mold at ~.310 or so..depending on alloy.

I haven't had time to try anything else....

Oh, don't load 311410's in the magazine...maybe too pointed...

P.S. I added a screw to stop overtravel on the trigger and done a little trigger work, It is a fine,fine rifle in the field....

26Charlie
12-17-2005, 01:00 PM
Nelson133,
Can you remember where you read this? It is simply not true as far as I can tell - I've got Marlins of several calibers with both types of rifling, and the difference in accuracy between them cannot be discerned - all excellently accurate. Other shooters testify the same.

Now you cannot load cast bullets as hot as jacketed bullets in the .30-30, regardless of the rifling style, but you can do so in the .35 Remington, .444 Marlin, and .45-70 in Marlin rifles.

I had one Marlin that had to go back to the factory for a new barrel, but that was a .25-20 and wouldn't shoot any bullet, jacketed or cast, very well.

This is one of those "theoretic" ideas that keeps getting perpetuated, without basis in fact. I should point out that there are millions of .22 Marlins all with microgroove, and all shoot soft lead bullets very well. A guy at the range was having trouble sighting in his little M60 semiauto Marlin ( he had a bad flinch) so I sat down and shot a 5-shot group with it under 1" at 100 yards, the most accurate .22 sporter I have ever seen. I offered to buy the rifle from him on the spot, but he wouldn't sell it.

Jumptrap
12-17-2005, 02:06 PM
The microgroove crowd never ceases to amaze me. Microgroove rifling was so successful with cast bullets in all forms, that Marlin had a brain fart one day and just decided to reintroduce standard 4 and 6 groove 'Ballard' type rifling just because they had nothing better to do.

The comparison of a dead soft, swaged .22 rimfire bullet and a cast bullet is not an apples and apples deal........apples and applesauce maybe.

Check the archives and read more on this subject as it has been dicussed at length before. Some shout about great success with MG rifling and others outright curse it. I have have 4 Marlin 30-30's presently and have had a few more. Day in and day out, my late 40's vintage Marlins....which are pre-MG rifling.....will outshoot the one MG version I have with cast bullets, and I don't give a **** what tricks I employ.

For the record, I do not like microgroove rifling for cast bullets. But when shooting jacketed bullets, I find no difference whatsoever. If all i had was a MG barreled rifle, I would make do with it, if it showed any promise at all....otherwise, I'd fine it a new home and get an older Marlin.....so far as I know, all new 30-30's are still MG'ed.

336's made before 1957 have standard rifling...I THINK the serial number prefix starting in 1946 was E...so count forward changing the letter for each successive year till you reach 1957..when MG was introduced.

Another tact you may wish to appreciate is the fact that a standard Ballard rifled barrel doesn't have to be coaxed to shoot....they'll shoot anything you feed them...ie., jacketed or cast, with equal success.

I feel Marlin recognized this and knowing the Cowboy crowd would howl when less than stellar accuracy resulted when using MG rifling and cast bullets, they went back to Ballard rifling to prevent problems and it was a correct decision and has been most welcomed by everybody.

StarMetal
12-17-2005, 02:14 PM
.....and another thing, if you think that fellows 22 rifle was the most accurate sporter you've seen, then you haven't seen any of the Remington 541-S Custom Sporters. I've had a few of them and have one currently as as for your 1 inch group at 100 yards, I've shot the staples out of my best friend's target at 100 yards with my Remington and he laughed...then he ordered two of those rifles (he had an FFL then) and kept the best looking one and sold the other.

Like Jumptrap said you can't compare a 22 rimfire bullet with a centerfire cast bullet.

Joe

imashooter2
12-17-2005, 02:56 PM
The reason for Ballard style rifling in the cowboy guns is simple. Marlin discovered it was much easier to change rifling than people's minds.

Jumptrap
12-17-2005, 04:26 PM
The reason for Ballard style rifling in the cowboy guns is simple. Marlin discovered it was much easier to change rifling than people's minds.

Yeah...that's it. They couldn't change their minds so they dumped a pile of money in new tooling to ease the conscience of folks. That's also the reason they quit filling dirigibles with hydrogen.

imashooter2
12-17-2005, 05:13 PM
Yeah...that's it. They couldn't change their minds so they dumped a pile of money in new tooling to ease the conscience of folks. That's also the reason they quit filling dirigibles with hydrogen.

No, they did it so they'd sell more rifles since urban legend dictates that microgroove won't shoot lead.

sundog
12-17-2005, 06:15 PM
Nelson, what caliber? sundog

26Charlie
12-17-2005, 06:20 PM
1) I ain't exactly a microgroove crowd. I am one shooter, going by my own experience with my own guns, moulds, and loads.

2) A .22 rimfire at 1200 f/s certainly is analogous to a centerfire lead plainbase bullet at 1200 f/s.

3) I would be happy to see a more accurate sporter than that $120 Marlin, but I would be even happier if the guy had been willing to sell. You may have one that shoots the staples out of the target - that doesn't refute my experience.

There are a lot of variables contributing to the accuracy of a specific rifle - I don't think microgroove rifling, in and of itself, makes any difference in a sporter. I have not seen any target rifles with microgroove, but I know they made them back in muzzleloading days with 12 or so fine grooves as well as a lesser number of deeper grooves. So even in a target rifle it "ought to work", based on past results.

I have not ever seen an experimental article with a knowledgable cast bullet shooter who ran tests and concluded that cast bullets wouldn't shoot in microgroove rifling. The very few slams by writers I have seen (and I can't remember who) were of the "opinion" kind of remark, or were of the nature of trying a commercial cast bullet with too hot a load.

StarMetal
12-17-2005, 06:54 PM
Mr Harris who did alot of stuff in the NRA Cast Bullet Book made mention of Marlin's micro groove and it wasn't very favorable. We all know he's one heck of a knowlegable cast shooter and reloader. Yeah, micro-groove can be made to shoot, but it's not as easy as regular deep cut rifling. Seems cast bullets like deep rifling. One example is the Steyr M95 8x56R.

Joe

nelson133
12-17-2005, 07:42 PM
My Marlin is a 30-30 of early 70's manufacture. What I have read over the years in various books and magazines is that the velocity must be kept down (below 1800) and the bullets must be very hard. I've started back into casting after a number of years (shot my first cast rifle nulets in my K31 today) and I'm thinking of the old rilfles that are sitting around, and wondering about shooting them again.

sundog
12-17-2005, 07:48 PM
35 Rem in MG works purdy good with the RCBS 35-200-FN in a 336CS. Can't talk to the turdy-turdy ceptin' Mdl 94 (which I'd rather a 32 Win Spl, anyway -- even though there are 'one or two' good loads in 30-30). sundog

...did I ever mention anything at all about liking RCBS mould?

Jumptrap
12-17-2005, 09:57 PM
No, they did it so they'd sell more rifles since urban legend dictates that microgroove won't shoot lead.

Like arguing with a woman.

imashooter2
12-17-2005, 11:16 PM
Like arguing with a woman.

Nice. I guess when you don't have a point to make, hurling insults will have to do. :roll:

Jumptrap
12-18-2005, 12:22 AM
Nice. I guess when you don't have a point to make, hurling insults will have to do. :roll:

You've invited the wrong one to a pissin' contest. YOU are like arguing with a damned woman.....gonna have the last word if it hairlips the Pope and it matters not whether you're right or wrong.

You espouse that microgroove rifling is fine and suggest that for some assinine reason, Marlin reintroduced to their product line. Sorry, but that turd won't float. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.....well it was broke, and they fixed it.

It is indeed, impossible to reason, with the unreasonable.

imashooter2
12-18-2005, 01:29 AM
You've invited the wrong one to a pissin' contest. YOU are like arguing with a damned woman.....gonna have the last word if it hairlips the Pope and it matters not whether you're right or wrong.

You espouse that microgroove rifling is fine and suggest that for some assinine reason, Marlin reintroduced to their product line. Sorry, but that turd won't float. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.....well it was broke, and they fixed it.

It is indeed, impossible to reason, with the unreasonable.

I had no idea this was a pissing contest. I thought it was a discussion between rational adults as to why Marlin changed rifling styles.

I assert that the only thing that was broken with microgroove was the public's perception of its capability with cast bullets. Marlin is in business to make profit. I believe they analyzed the market, decided they could sell more units by retooling, validated the business case and made the change. That isn't asinine, that's shrewd business.

Your position is that Marlin wouldn't spend a dime unless there was a performance flaw with microgroove. Despite your emotional outbursts and attempts to marginalize me through insults and sarcasm, your opinion is no more valid than mine. Further, you seem to feel you are in a pissing contest and have decided you are going to have the last word if it hairlips the Pope, and it matters not if you are right or wrong.

Your microgroove rifle doesn't shoot cast well? Mine does. Lots of others do too.

9.3X62AL
12-18-2005, 02:20 AM
I've had both good and bad experiences with MG. Not bad at all with a Model 62 in 30 Carbine, not real good with a couple 30-30's. PPC revolvers use a LOT of MG profile barrels, and those drive tacks. Maybe it's just an individual gun or barrel issue not related to the pattern so much as overall quality or consistency of diameters and smoothness. To me, the jury is still out.

Four Fingers of Death
12-18-2005, 07:11 AM
Microgroove rifling might not work,
Microgroove rifling might work with tweaking,
Ballard Rifling will work.
Nuff said, Mick.

Singletree
12-18-2005, 09:32 AM
Ballard rifling in 38-55 did not work with any thing cast. Bought different molds,didn't work. Rebarreled by factory and if the present barrel was turned inside out, it would do a very nice impression of a round file.

krag35
12-18-2005, 10:34 AM
I assert that the only thing that was broken with microgroove was the public's perception of its capability with cast bullets. Marlin is in business to make profit. I believe they analyzed the market, decided they could sell more units by retooling, validated the business case and made the change. That isn't asinine, that's shrewd business.
************************************************** **********************

I don't know that us Cast bullet folks have that much influence on a rifle manufacturer, compared to the jacketed bullet folks. Jacketed bullets seem to work just fine in MG bbls. I only tried cast in one MG, a 44 mag. I tried everything I knew, and it just would not shoot cast worth a hoot (50 yd groups measured in FEET) shot jacketed bullets just fine. I don't care why they changed, just glad they did.
krag35

imashooter2
12-18-2005, 11:37 AM
I assert that the only thing that was broken with microgroove was the public's perception of its capability with cast bullets. Marlin is in business to make profit. I believe they analyzed the market, decided they could sell more units by retooling, validated the business case and made the change. That isn't asinine, that's shrewd business.
************************************************** **********************

I don't know that us Cast bullet folks have that much influence on a rifle manufacturer, compared to the jacketed bullet folks. Jacketed bullets seem to work just fine in MG bbls. I only tried cast in one MG, a 44 mag. I tried everything I knew, and it just would not shoot cast worth a hoot (50 yd groups measured in FEET) shot jacketed bullets just fine. I don't care why they changed, just glad they did.
krag35

I would agree in general, but a new market opened up. The Cowboy Action shooter. CA shooters are constrained by the rules of the game to use lead bullets. Marlin wanted to be a big player in that market and modified their product to have the broadest possible appeal.

9.3X62AL
12-18-2005, 11:48 AM
I still think it's an individual barrel quality issue. I'm wondering if my Marlin 25-20 Ballard barrel might not be at fault for its largely poor showing with cast boolits. Those MG PPC revolver barrels were made right--probably air-gauged, and they shot very soft lead with very little lube into 50 yard chrysanthemums.

StarMetal
12-18-2005, 12:17 PM
Okay lets settle this. First off a word straight from Marlins website in their FAQ page: 14. Q) Why has Marlin changed its rifling on Models 1894S, 1894CS and 1895SS from Micro-Groove® to Ballard-type cut rifling?

A) To accommodate the use of cast lead bullets.(Jacketed bullets will still function reliably.)
Back to Top (http://www.marlinfirearms.com/FAQs/index.php#TOP)

I would say that says it all. That's from the horse's mouth. Another thing the Cowboy Action shooting is but a small segment of the shooting industry. Big game hunting still remains on the top. Now if Marlin thought they could gain a little segment of the shooting world by making a specific product, such as going back to cut riflling for the cast shooters, then why wouldn't they bring out all the old guns again or at least make the old calibers in their new rifles?There is just as big demand for them as there are for CA guns. Kinda like I always said that if China wanted a big chunk of business in the U.S. why don't they make a brand new 57 Chevy or 65 Mustang, but with emission passable engine and updated other features like disc brakes, etc.??? How many people would buy a brand new 57 Chevy for say under $10,000? You know China can do that too. Okay, same with these old guns being made new again. One reason they said they couldn't produce alot of the old models was because of the cost of machining. Well that all changed with CNC maching.

I think you're somewhat off on microgroove rifling. It's not the best for cast bullets. Yes it can be tweated some to get it to work, but is's a fact that cast bullets like, or should I say require deep rifling for best performance. You know, if Marlin wants to come out with a sales gimmic they can make deeper micro groove. There you go..."THE ALL NEW MARLIN CAST BULLET MICRO-GROOVE" JUST AS THE MARLIN COMPANY BROUGHT YOU THE STANDARD MICRO-GROOVE RIFLING THAT GRIPS YOUR BULLET TIGHTER, MAKES A BETTER GAS SEAL, AND ENCHANCES ACCURACY...WE NOW HAVE DEVELOPED A DEEPER MICRO-GROOVE FOR CAST BULLETS. NOW YOU CAN HAVE THE SAME BENEFITS THAT THE JACKETED BULLET SHOOTERS HAVE HAD FOR YEARS. DROP BY YOUR NEAREST MARLIN DEALER AND CHECK OUT OUR NEW DEEP MICRO-GROOVE FOR CAST BULLET.

Okay...that's it...this thread should be done now. Thank you, thank you ver much,

Joe

Bass Ackward
12-18-2005, 12:32 PM
I think Joe pretty much nailed it.

Shooting cast bullets at reduced pressures creates fouling. If your rifling height isn't adequate and the bullet strong enough to fight the sizing effect, you in effect shoot a smooth bore.

22s prove this when bullets are light weight and slow. But as speed increases or bullet diameter increases, sizing by the fouling causes problems at earlier levels.

If you want to shoot a micro groove, you go big, hard, you shoot a strong bullet design with very little unsupported nose weight and stomp on them to get the pressure up to burn powder clean and you can have success. But it will never be as .... "flexible" as with taller rifling.

Tall rifling is king with cast.

JDL
12-18-2005, 12:53 PM
Some of the Marlin MG barrels were reputated to be oversized as much as .002", with constrictions, as a result they failed with cast bullets, but did ok with jacks. Aparently, others have had this problem, but whenever anything is printed, it seems to be indisputable and becomes "law". Some writer had a bad time of making his mg barrel shoot cast (must be all them little grooves!) and wrote it up. It became "law" and other writers proclaimed the same (whether they indeed tried it or not) reinforcing the "law". Remember how the .243 was so superior to the .257 Roberts and .250 Savage? This was before the average joe was able to own a chronotach. Gunwriters at work! Even Lyman wrote that mg barrels needed oversized and hard bullets to shoot. They should know, shouldn't they? I believed this and obeyed the "law" until I tried some sized .309" of just air cooled wheelweights and found they shoot as well as the hard oversized ones.
It just happens that my particular 336 has a bore of .300" and a groove of .307" without any constrictions, and shoots 2" at 100 yards, which is all I ask of a deer hunting rifle. The only tweeking I did with it was adjusting the powder charge until my velocity goal was met, 1750-1850 fps. I used 2 boolits and 2 powders to accomplish this task. Lymans 311407 and RCBS 30-180 FN with Rx 7 and MR-3100. My '94 will only do 3", but that's still good enough for deer where I would hunt with it. Oh, I also have a conventional rifled bolt action that won't shoot for beans with cast so, don't believe that every standard rifled barrel will shoot circles around a micro-groove barrel. I know that there is one mg that does just fine with cast, but I would say that not all do, just as with conventional rifleing.
My reccomendation is, try it to see! It may will or it may won't. Anyway, it will be fun, edjucational, and you just might break the "law". :-) -JDL

StarMetal
12-18-2005, 01:02 PM
JDL

Anyone on this forum should know that some guns shoot and some guns don't, don't matter what they are or what rifling they have. If you took all the micro-grooved marlins in the country and had all the members of this forum get together and shoot them I know you would find that conventional rifled guns would outshoot them.

Joe

Maven
12-18-2005, 01:15 PM
JDL makes an interesting point: We've continually read (e.g., Al Miller of "Handloader;" Lyman, et al.) and accepted the idea that MG rifling and CB's aren't a perfect combination. Personal experience may have skewed our judgement as well. Meanwhile, we've ignored and/or forgotten the fact that many rifles with standard (whatever that is) rifling aren't automatically m.o.a. cast or even jacketed bullet shooters. I've written about this several times before, but my 2 Marlin 336's (MG) handle air cooled CB's (wheelweights + 1% Sn) exceptionally well. The .30-30Win. with an aperture sight, rough bbl. ahead of the chamber (courtesy of Marlin's workmanship) and a gravely trigger pull will put Ly. #311466 and Saeco #315 (sized either to .310" or .311") into one big hole @ 50 yds. The .45-70 will do the same thing with a variety of CB's, but it wears a 4X 'scope and has a much better trigger. Interestingly enough, it shoots exactly the same as my friend's 450 Marlin and his late brother's .45-70, both of which have Ballard rifling. It seems to me the so-called "microgroove problem" may be more one of bbl. quality and [cast] bullet fit than rifling form per se, regardless of what the experts, including Marlin Firearms, say.

Jumptrap
12-18-2005, 04:26 PM
In light of the Christmas spirit....that is the celebration of the birth of the Messiah.....I recant everything I said.

Microgroove rifling is without a doubt the finest thing since percussion caps were invented. It is without flaw and capable of delivering the utmost of accurcy with any projectile launched through/over it.

Why any company that possesses such a shrewd invention would go backwards and readopt an ancient form of barrel rifling is beyond me. The countless testimonials alone, to its worthiness, would appear to indicate this obvious guffaw on the part of Marlin&Co.

I am of a mind to approach Marlin and inquire if they would rebarrel all of my 'Ballard' rifled firearms of their make in order to take advantage of their MG technology and perhaps cause them to reconsider thier recent and odious mistake in going backwards. It is an obvious marketing blunder, doomed to failure. Perhaps Winchester will pick up the ball Marlin has dropped and begin offering a version of microgrooving in all their arms. I hope so.

felix
12-18-2005, 05:03 PM
Gosh almighty, Jump, you're coming through again! Cannot believe it. What's in your sippin' juice? ... felix

26Charlie
12-18-2005, 07:42 PM
Now that's all thrashed out, 'b'lieve I'll join Felix! A tequila on ice with a beer back ought to do it - dark rum if we are out of tequila. Clutching a 336C Marlin .35 Rem microgroove in one hand, and a 336A Marlin .35 Rem regular cut in the other hand, and feeling the warmth in my tummy and toes.

StarMetal
12-18-2005, 08:57 PM
Probably what is in his sippin juice is good Tennessee whiskey, not that watered down Kentucky rye piss. har har har

Joe

Jumptrap
12-19-2005, 12:19 AM
Probably what is in his sippin juice is good Tennessee whiskey, not that watered down Kentucky rye piss. har har har

Joe

Oh the agony! I feel your pain Josepi, but quite honestly things haven't deteriorated that badly. Rye.....a weed in any form...is fit only to be trampled under the feet of men and beasts.

Corn on the other hand, a hybridized version of the ancient maize, a member of the grass family, is a royal plant and at it's best when rendered into a finely ground mash, fermented, distilled and then properly aged in a charred oaken barrel for a minimum of seven years.

Woodford Reserve Bourbon rivals the sparkling waters from the Fountain of Youth when compared to Tennessee's Jack Daniels...which appears to be a byproduct of the Lynchburg septic system's sediment ponds. It's of little wonder to me it induces delirium to all those who imbibe this ancient form of drain cleaner.

Delerium is not one of my symptoms, but rather a warm glow...from head to toe and a mellowing of the soul.

StarMetal
12-19-2005, 12:38 AM
Jump,

I had to laugh at that....you made me laugh pardner. I know there is a rivalry between Kentucky whiskey and Tennessee whiskey, that's why I was teasin you. My sippin whiskey is Jim Beam

Joe

Jumptrap
12-19-2005, 01:29 AM
Jump,

I had to laugh at that....you made me laugh pardner. I know there is a rivalry between Kentucky whiskey and Tennessee whiskey, that's why I was teasin you. My sippin whiskey is Jim Beam

Joe

I knew you would! In all honesty, I abstain from all hard liqour..regardless of it's origin. Now a cold beer and good company.......I can do that! Merry Christmas.

StarMetal
12-19-2005, 01:34 AM
Jump,

I probably don't have more then a couple drinks a year. Same with beer. Now Coke Cola, I'm addicted

Joe

Char-Gar
12-20-2005, 10:05 AM
I don't pretend to be the expert on all things Microgroove, but I do have two Marlin 30-30s with MG barrels and I have done allot of shooting with them and cast bullets. One is a 1960 vintage Texan carbine and the other is a 1972 vintage 336A. Both of the rifles have oversize barrels. The Texan runs .310X.305 and the 336A runs .309 X .302.

When fed cast bullets that FIT the barrels, either rifle will shoot cast at full charge velocity as well or better than condom bullets.

If would appear that Marlin MG spec are anything but uniform and most tend to be on the large size. This makes the Marlin MG a special needs child when it comes to bullet fit. However with a bullet that fits they will shoot cast with the best of them. The developed the reputation for not doing will with cast bullets becasue of bullets that did not fit.

My 336A (24" bbl. and half magazine) wears a Weaver K 2.5 Scope and will put five round into 1.5 to 1.75" at a hundred yards when I do my part and it will do it with RCBS 305 (sized .311) and 29/3031

Bret4207
12-20-2005, 07:23 PM
So the DSL dies for a few days and a hot topic comes along. Figures. Two comments-

1. In THEORY, just theory mind you, a Micro-groove "style" barrel should be among the best with cast. The resemblence to Pope style rifling is supposed to be close. Not having a Pope or 3 lying around to compare to a Marlin I can't say. But, several folks have noted that the multiple groove type rifling shold work great with cast. Why some folks have problems I can't say.

2. Scotch, preferably a fine single malt, is "whiskey". That corn liquor and rye stuff is good for paint stripping and getting the bugs off your windshield. Beer comes from Massachusetts and is labeled "Samuel Adams" and comes in a keg, not cans or bottles. Both should be used very sparingly.

onceabull
12-20-2005, 08:01 PM
THanks to all those who finally helped me understand why Uncle Sugar was willing to sell me Black Jack for $2.85/fifth at the class 6 store in France, 62-63..Guess I was lucky to live through it... Onceabull

PatMarlin
12-21-2005, 01:49 AM
First, let me say Marlin can do NO wrong!.. :mrgreen:

Second, let me say my 1970 336 thutty, thutty slugs at .307, and my 1972 336 .35 Rem slugs at .3585.

Both so far shoot 1/2" at 50, and working on 100. I plink a small cylinder at 200 with the .35 Rem and open sights with the RCBS 35 200 boolit.

I think that the barrels are each unto their own, and some will shoot and some won't to well.

That's an insiders opinion.. :mrgreen:

Newtire
01-07-2006, 11:44 AM
The reason for Ballard style rifling in the cowboy guns is simple. Marlin discovered it was much easier to change rifling than people's minds.
I hear ya Ima! Some of us have good luck with some things, others don't. How do you guys get that 311291 bullet to shoot beyond 1600fps anyhow?! I say it can't be done! Most everyone else gets it to work but not me...I am thinking it's the Karmic tradeoff I have to endure because my micro-groove guns do really love cast bullets...Ya think?

lovedogs
02-03-2006, 10:58 AM
All this shore is interestin' to listen to. We've been arguing around campfires for ages which gun is best, which bullet kills best, who makes the best barrels, etc. The controversy between Micro-Groove vs. Ballard will, undoubtedly, go on as long as you have one and I have the other. What it really comes down to is that we don't know everything and some things don't hold up to logic. We've probably all looked down some rusty, neglected bore, shook our heads and declared that gun would never shoot, only to have it outshoot our favorite target rifle. My perception is that we don't always know as much as we think we do but we enjoy the discussion. And I guess that's what matters in the end. I say if you have a gun that shoots well enough to make you happy, more power to ya. We all love what we are doing, this site is proof of it. Have a good day, ya-all.

Maven
02-03-2006, 11:24 AM
I'm with Jumptrap, et al. on this one for several reasons. First, I have a Marlin MG .22cal. that will put 5 shots into a dime @ 50yds. with match ammo (won quite a few matches with it too!). Second, my Marlin #336's, .30-30Win. & .45-70, have MG bbls. and shoot exceptionally well. In spite of a rough patch ahead of the chamber in the .30-30, it will shoot into 2 m.o.a. or better with a Ly. #66 aperture sight and has never leaded the bore.* A typical load is 20gr. 5744 + 175gr. CB such as Saeco #315 or a 160gr. Ly. #311466. Third, a friend of mine bought a 450 (?) Marlin with Ballard rifling while his late bro. bought the .45-70 version, also with Ballard rifling: There was no difference in accuracy between them using the same loads in the Ballard .45-70 and mine (MG). The 450 did no better or worse than the others. It seems to me that it's time to bury this old cast bullet myth.

*I don't use heat-treated or water-quenched CB's in either rifle and never have. However, I try to hold vel. to <1,350fps. in the .45-70 in deference to recoil in such a light rifle. A CB that fits well and carries enough high quality lube may spell the difference between success and failure.

Mr Peabody
02-03-2006, 12:03 PM
In my workings with two of the Marlins in 45-70 and one in 444 they've shot cast well enough to hit everything I wanted too. I'm not very interested in matching factory jacketed loads for velocity either. Gas checks are a plus for starting out it seems. The RCBS 300gr GCFP in the 45-70 is very good . Lyman's 429244 GCFP in my 444 hits ground squirrels to 75 yards all day. I think they work pretty well. Luck helps