Ortgies 7.65 for the heavy 32 ACP loads.

[serger]

I have been reading all the 32 threads and picked up a :

Walther PP
CZ-27
Beretta 81

and a S&W 32 hand ejector circa 1917.

I've been watching Colt 1903's but haven's gotten one yet.


My question is, are the Ortgies pistols stout enough to
handle the 5.9 grain load of 2400 with Rim Rocks 75 grainers?
If I get one then I'm going to research heavier recoil springs
to keep from beating it up.

I plan to get Accurates 31-094H for use with the PP and if
It won't tear it up maybe try limited use for the Ortgies


thanks

serger

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Hi serger-- welcome to the forum! The Ortgies pistol was a well made pistol, but made now-many years ago. Personally, I wouldn't feed it a diet of anything hotter than standard loads. Hot .32 loads did not exist when it was made.

[Outpost75]

Also, with the Ortgies there is no reliable source of replacement heavy-duty springs or spare parts if you break anything. I use the heavy .32 ACP loads only in pistols where I can substitute a heavy-duty 16-pound recoil spring for the standard 14-pound one.

The Beretta 81, while a light alloy frame, has a heavy slide and heavy 16-lb. recoil spring, the same as in the .380 ACP Model 84 pistol. It's actually difficult to rack the slide on an empty chamber to feed a round unless you cock the hammer first so that you aren't also fighting the hammer spring.

Walther PP, CZ27 and Colt Model M are also sturdy pistols.

[onelight]

Welcome to the forum , sounds like you are catching up to some of these guys fast!

[serger]

the PP and model 81 run fine with the 5.9gr 2400 load. And they both require cocking the
hammer due to stiff recoil springs. But that's old news considering ya'll have been working
on these loads for a decade at least.

I haven't shot the CZ-27 because it's a 1939/1940 transitional gun with the DR Reichbahn
markings and slanted pre-war slide grooves in the 19k serial number range. I screwed up
with that one. Wanted a shooter and got something more....

If I do get the Ortgies I'm going to research heavier springs. It should
run the Buffalo Bore clone fine. We'll see.

I do know these are more fun for me than the 40 S&W SIG 229/226's.

[Outpost75]

The CZ sounds like a nice collectible. The Ortgies should handle the 77-grain bullets OK.

[serger]

Thank you Sir! I appreciate you reply. I've read
most of the threads and down loaded some of them.

I think I might play with the 4gr. herco load with
the 75 gr bullets.

It's still a learning curve for me.

Gotta Chronograph this stuff when it warms up to
see what they do in my guns.

I don't recall in my research if anyone had tried
magnum pistol primers to bump the velocity up.
That's another thing I gotta try.

[Outpost75]

Not sure where you got the 4 grain Herco load or if it was a typo... Sounds too much.

I wouldn't exceed 3 grains with the 77-grain bullet until you've actually chronographed it and examined fired cases.

The 3 grain AutoComp load is very good with bullets from 77-94 grains at minimum ctg. OAL 0.945"

I did not find magnum primers beneficial in this small case.

[serger]

Thanks for the primer info.

I will look up the
Link for the Herco load
And post it.

[Outpost75]

Thanks for the primer info.

I will look up the
Iink for the Herco load
And post it?

Please do. Last pressure testing I did in .32 ACP was back in 1980s, all radial copper procedure, and while CIP permits higher pressure the measurements are all piezoelectric and their statistical conventions are much different.

[serger]

I can't find the 4gr Herco loading information I referenced.
The 1987 Aliant data sheet only lists 3.2 gr @880fps With 13500 CUP using the 71 gr bullet.
I'll keep digging, maybe it will show up.

Too bad I can't interpolate data on a pressure curve

[serger]

I found the reference to the 4 grain Herco load here:

https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/126171-replicating-buffalo-bore-s-32-acp-p-ammunition.html

In post # 8, the OP Marshall Thompson, discusses the load in paragraph 11:

" 75 gr RNFP / 4.0 gr Herco / 0.915 OAL
24501 psi / 1156 fps / 222 ft-lb / 87.3% Burn / 118.1% Fill "

The load is above CIP maximum pressure of 23206 psi but below what would be considered
+P CIP of 25527 psi. I "think" I will try 3.5 grains of Herco to start with in the Walther.
It will wait til thaw when the wind doesn't eat me up as bad.

Outpost75, your replies are in posts #16,17 & 19. I printed out Your post #16,
The Fouling Shot #246 March-April, 2017,

“Buffalo Kicks Tomcat, Cracks Rib!” - Things You Can Expect to Happen When “Chasing the Buffalo” with a .32 ACP!
C.E. “Ed” Harris, Gerrardstown, WV

One thing I have wondered, what is the optimal velocity? In my limited experience between 1000 to 1200 fps
is what you need when poking holes in things that need holes poked in them. With small rounds there is the
camp that says go through the target to allow fluid leak out of both openings. But there is also the camp
that says if the round escapes the target, you wasted resources. I tend to believe if the round makes it to
the opposite hide of the target you did good.

I tend to go with the old timers who thought the 32 ACP should be heavy enough to make it inside and
then bounce around.

[Outpost75]

I would consider the estimated Quickload pressure of the 4 grain Herco load in the Thompson article unsafe, because it exceeds the CIP Pmax and it IS only an estimate and not based upon actual measurements.

7.65 Browning CIP

Pmax (Maximum sample average) 1600 bar = 23206.04 psi
PK (Maximum statistical individual pressure 1840 bar = 26686.94 psi
PE (Mean PROOF pressure) 2080 bar = 30167.85 psi

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-iv/tabivcal-en-page12.pdf

[serger]

well krap. Thought I was going to add to the discussion and it didn't
happen. I will say the 2400 load burns quite clean at 0 fahrenheit
for powder my late father got in 1968. But the wind sucked and my
hands can't hack the cold like they used to. Just glad I'm not at sea
playing whack-a-mole with swimmers.

Also no leading. I don't know if that's Rim Rock's alloy or my
running the boolits thru a .309 sizer. later this year when I get
Accurates 31-094H I'm going to cast the 1:30 alloy and powder
coat them. Hopefully they won't lead then.