LEE mold chicken laying eggs?

[JKH]

Hey guys,

I've been merrily casting slugs for my 1911's using a new LEE TL452-230-2R, so far these shoot quite well in both my .45's as cast and lubed with LLA.

The other day I cast another 200 slugs, I concentrate very carefully on making sure the molds are completely closed and aligned (these are a bit loosey goosey so I use the flat surface of my cast iron table saw to ensure thngs are aligned right), I also watch my casting speed to get the best results I can by slowing down when bullets start sticking.

I only had maybe 5 slugs that had to go back in the pot, no wings, no wrinkles, not even frosty, I was very happy with the tub full of nice shiny, well filled out boolits:bigsmyl2:

Now, here is where this process went from casting slugs to laying eggs. I grabbed a handfull of slugs and my trusty old micrometer and started checking dimensions. EVERY slug was out of round! across from the almost invisible mold lines (some actually were invisible) the averaged .453, the other direction they measured an average of .457.

So, whats the scoop? I went to great pains to ensure the molds closed properly by inspecting them each and every tme I closed them up, and held them tightly (but not tight enough to bend anything) so that this should not have happened but now I have a bunch of silver eggs on my hands:oops:

Could it be that the molds were cut wrong? Is it my lead (straight wheel weight, all bullets cast from the same smelt batch), or what?

I am assuming that the slugs I fired in my pistols earlier on were the same, if so than this issue certainly didnt have an adverse effect on accuracy (15 yards with al slugs into about 3" offhand, 1 - 5" 1911 and 1 - 3" 1911).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, live with these and maybe size the boolits (which defeats the purpose of TL's in my opinion), or contact LEE?

Thanks

Jeff

[EDK]

If you shot them as cast with no sizing...did you use a factory crimp die or a taper crimp die? Critics claim a factory crimp die (or same in carbide) will size the boolit in the loaded round.

Load a couple of them and then use the micrometer on the case mouth/boolit junction. It might be interesting to see if they are still out of round and what diameter the loaded rounds are.

You could refer to the stickies on lapping moulds and try that...or call LEE and get a replacement. OR you could get a Lee sizing outfit to mount on your press.

I'm using the RANCH DOG TLC 432 265 with XLOX (from Lars) and running them through a .432 in my STAR...and they are working well in my RUGERS.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[JKH]

EDK,

I crimped with the standard seating/crimp died that came with my LEE loading die set.

I'll try to load a couple tomorrow when I get home from the office and see what they say.

I dont have a sizing die for this caliber, what I have is a screw in sizing die like the LEE, but it is made by someone else, this particular unit takes interchangeable bushings bit otherwises works just like the LEE, som unless I can get one made for .45 I wont be able to size them.

If they do require any work I would rather opt for having LEE replace them, I will be sending an e-mail in a few minutes to see what they say.

Jeff

[Ben]

Jeff:

Send it back . Something like this happened to me about two yrs. ago. I sent the mold back to Lee.

In a few days I have a new mold .

There was a note in the box that said. " Sorry, let's try again with this mold ."
As soon as I was able to cast with the new replacement mold that was sent to me , I found that the bullets cast were within .0005 of being perfectly round .

Ben

[JKH]

Ben,

Thanks for the confirmation, I just fired off an e-mail to LEE and hope to here from them in a day or two.

Besides this issue I like the molds, even though I have never cast before it was extremely easy to start casting great looking bullets. My first effort resulted in about 10% bad boolits sent back to the pot, this time it was 5 boolits with a net of 200 good ones, I am very pleased with that ratio!

One thing that probably contibuted to starting the last batch off right and having so few bad pours, I am using a 2 burner electric unit with nice flat cast iron heating elements, I turned the second element on to low and set the mold on there to heat for about 10 minutes while waiting for the lead pot to come up to temp, a couple of the bad bullets were the result of the lead not pouring cleanly out of my dipper and spilling over the top while only partially filling the cavity.

This is becoming an addiction, I just traded for a batch of 7 molds to do more, I can use them all except for a nice one that is made for .44mag/.44special sized cartridges. One is a nealry new LEE 6 cavity tumble lube design for 124 grain 9mm/.380 bullets, that should cast a bunch in a big hurry! Now I just need molds for .30 caliber and 8mm and maybe even .22!

Jeff

[38-55]

JKH,
If you shot them and they worked OK what's the problem ? Just a thought but lee could of screwed up the mold but you could have warped it or the handles the way you pre-heated it... Have you lubed it like the directions say ? I've found that can help some times.. Check it good for burrs and such.. Was your first batch 'round' or did you just discover the 'out of round' condition on your second batch ?
Btw welcome to the addiction !
Stay safe
Calvin

[JKH]

38-55,

Howdy! I went the the LEEmenting process and checked/removed any burr's, etc. beezwax (sp?) for lube, all to no avail. The mold blocks from the start would not close properly, that is even when they were fresh out of the box, unsued and cold. The one side hangs much lower than the other and is also off on the front to rear axis so the only way to get them toclose properly is to placce them flat on the iron saw table oruse my gloved hand to close and align them.

As far as out of round, I didnt check the first batch, they looked great and I had no reason tosuspect a problem, micing the second batch was out of pure curiosity, I will go back and check whats left of the first session but they have been tumble lubed so the results may not be reflective of actual conditions.

I have 6 other LEE molds, all of them close right up without any extra girations or issues and without lube. I also understand that few molds will throw a boolit that is perfectly round, however this .45 mold is .005" minimum out of round which is way off the other molds I have. I cast fresh slugs (minimum of 10 from each) out of all my molds last night from the same batch of lead I cast the .45's from, the greates deviation from round was .002, even a Lyman mold I have where someone kept baning the botom of the halves on a hard surface to release the boolits and peened the edges, was only out by .002"

Yes, these shot fine in my 1911's so I am pleased with that result, if in fact that was the only issue I would probably keep them, but with the major issue of how they close PLUS the major out of round condition i am going to send them back for replacement.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Jeff (yes, I am addicted, my wife had to yell at me about the stink to get me to stop last night!)

[Springfield]

All my LEE moulds are a couple to three thousandths out of round, that's what sizing is for. Besides, since they are exactly out of round they will still balance when shot. My steel moulds are not as bad but not perfect. If you hadn't measured you would have never known, and they would have worked just fine.

[JKH]

Springfield,
I understand what your saying but .005" MINIMUM out of round (some were as much as .007") is a bit much, yes they do shoot ok BUT, the molds align so poorly that it takes twice as long to cast an amount of boolits equal to what another LEE 2 cavity mold can throw, THAT is whats unacceptable.

ETA: sizing would correct this issue to a point, however, being a tumble lube design they are made to be used as cast and the grooves are extremely shallow. If I sized these particular bullets it would wipe out the lube grooves on 2 sides which I am sure would lead to leading and accuracy issues.

Jeff

[bohokii]

Springfield,
I understand what your saying but .005" MINIMUM out of round (some were as much as .007") is a bit much, yes they do shoot ok BUT, the molds align so poorly that it takes twice as long to cast an amount of boolits equal to what another LEE 2 cavity mold can throw, THAT is whats unacceptable.

ETA: sizing would correct this issue to a point, however, being a tumble lube design they are made to be used as cast and the grooves are extremely shallow. If I sized these particular bullets it would wipe out the lube grooves on 2 sides which I am sure would lead to leading and accuracy issues.

Jeff

i'm not so sure about that ive cast a few where i didnt close the mold properly and there was a bit of whisker on the top when i sized it it squished through ok and didn't rub out the micro grooves on the two oversize sides

realize these are just boolits they dont have to be perfect

unless you are quiggly down under

[Springfield]

If the mould is bad it is bad, but like you said, they shot fine, and that is the main thing to care about. I don't like LEE 2 cavity moulds myself, been spoiled with the 6 cavs.

[JKH]

well guys,

Maybe I am Quigley, who knows? ;^ )

I will reiterate; the boolits seemed to shoot ok which I would live with IF the dang molds would function properly, 6 other LEE molds I have function 100% and require no extra diddling to close as I just swing em in and move the sprue plate into position. These .45 molds are a pain the rear and are plain not right, I didnt spend good money to live with something that wasnt built right so they go back to LEE, but I would be more than happy to sell them to you for what I payed and then I can buy a set that is right.

Springfield, all the other LEE 2 cav's I have are a drream to work with, better than the one Lyman I own thats for sure, I also have a LEE 6 cavity and that is a very sweet piece of equipment for the money and can throw slugs in a big hurry, my next mold purchase will most likely be a 6 cavity throwing the same .45 slug I am casting now.

Jeff

[mold maker]

Is there play in the fit of the handles to the blocks, or in the handle hinge that allows the misalignment?
The only alignment problem I ever had was using a different brand handle with very well used 4 cav. alum mold. The loose handle to block fit allowed them to close off center, forcing the alignment pins to seek the holes. The weight of the sprue cutter caused all the slack to be in opposite verticle directions. The short handle to block fit allowed them to meet off center end to end.
I changed to a 6 cac. handle that was slightly thicker and solved the problem.
As long as there is no side to side imbalance in the same direction, they should shoot fine. Your barrel is going to resize them anyway.

[JKH]

mold maker,

These are new LEE molds, they mismatch in 2 planes but evenwhen they do close there is some verticle shuck bewteen the two halves which necessitates carefull scrutiny each time the mold is closed to prevent mismatched lube grooves.

The barrel will indeed size them down but new molds shouldnt be that far out of round, they also should functionproperly without having to be massively tweeked, hence they will be off to LEE in a day or two. I was actually casting boolits faster the other night with a 250 grain .45 wadcutter mold that is a single cavity mold than I can cast with these, THAT is pathetic in my book!

Thanks for the input guys!

Jeff

[Dale53]

I use Bullshop's Sprue plate lube on ALL of my moulds but the Lee two cavity moulds especially benefit from the lube. My few Lee two cavity moulds seldom alighn correctly without lubing with sprue plate lube but conversely work quite well when lubed. I have not found any lube that I like NEARLY as well for bullet moulds.

FWIW
Dale53

[TAWILDCATT]

Please if they are not made properly send them back.dont talk about it as they are not right.I have a dozen of there molds and all were good.I like the 6 cavity and at $36 their a steal.:coffee:[smilie=1: