Taming the Bugger 9mm

[RydForLyf]

For the last 15 years, I’ve had great success casting for my G35 and shooting COWW with 20% lino. I lubed them with the Star luber and life was good. I tried and repeatedly failed doing the same for my wife’s G17. I’ve read and understand 9mm can be a bugger and have gotten to the point of crying uncle.

I’m ready to scrap everything I do for 9mm and simply copy/steal from your success. So, I’m asking for your secret, from alloy, mold, lube, powder, load, everything. I figure this will be a quicker end to the madness of trying more of the same, expecting different results.

Thanks in advance.

[geslayton]

Maybe I just got lucky, but, I've ran around 1,000 powder coated Lee 120 grain TC out of a 6 cavity mold and coated with smokes Carolina blue and sized to .356 without a single hiccup. Shooting them out of a Glock 45 9mm.

My lead has been a hodgepodge of scrap lead, probably running on the soft side, I do water drop out of the mold and again after coating. I'm very new to casting, but what I'm doing seems to be working for my needs.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

[onelight]

What are you loads doing in the 17 ?

[RydForLyf]

Maybe I just got lucky, but, I've ran around 1,000 powder coated Lee 120 grain TC out of a 6 cavity mold and coated with smokes Carolina blue and sized to .356 without a single hiccup. Shooting them out of a Glock 45 9mm.

My lead has been a hodgepodge of scrap lead, probably running on the soft side, I do water drop out of the mold and again after coating. I'm very new to casting, but what I'm doing seems to be working for my needs.

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

It is the same Lee mold I had trouble with. My lead is harder and that may be a good part of the problem. Good luck on your journey.

[RydForLyf]

What are you loads doing in the 17 ?

Leading the barrel with just a few shots.

Bullets are Sized with .357 die and measure .358. Pulled bullets still measure .3575/.358. They fit tight in the throat. My lead is COWW with 20% Linotype, so BHN measured about 12. I have a bunch of stick-on wheel weights, so that will be a lot softer and will be my next experiment.

[nicholst55]

Have you read two sticky posts in the Wheelguns, Pistols and Handcannons subforum - one on Glocks and cast boolits, and the other on Setting up for cast in a new 9mm? There's a lot of information in both threads that might prove useful.

[RydForLyf]

For the last 15 years, I’ve had great success casting for my G35 and shooting COWW with 20% lino. I lubed them with the Star luber and life was good. I tried and repeatedly failed doing the same for my wife’s G17. I’ve read and understand 9mm can be a bugger and have gotten to the point of crying uncle.

I’m ready to scrap everything I do for 9mm and simply copy/steal from your success. So, I’m asking for your secret, from alloy, mold, lube, powder, load, everything. I figure this will be a quicker end to the madness of trying more of the same, expecting different results.

Thanks in advance.


Have you read two sticky posts in the Wheelguns, Pistols and Handcannons subforum - one on Glocks and cast boolits, and the other on Setting up for cast in a new 9mm? There's a lot of information in both threads that might prove useful.

No I haven’t. Thanks!

[crackers]

The fastest powders can be a headache. Unique/BE-86ish can help.

[RydForLyf]

The fastest powders can be a headache. Unique/BE-86ish can help.

Right now it’s 3.5 Clays. I’ll try slower.

Thanks

[sigep1764]

Thats some pretty hard lead you got there. Its my thought you don't need lead that hard. I get by with ww water dropped sized 358 with Lyman Orange Magic on top of 2.8 grains of Red Dot. This with the Elco boolit from NOE.

[ioon44]

I run a 130 gr fp nlg at around 14 BHN and Hi-Tek coated, my barrel slugs at .357" so I am loading .359" bullets and shooting them out of a Walther PPQ SF , I have been using 700 X and Sport Pistol both powders are loaded to around 1025 fps, I have not had any leading with this combo.

I know the Walther polygonal rifling is different than the Glock which is not a true polygonal.

[gwpercle]

Boolit : NOE 358-124-TC-GC , sized .357, Lithi-Bee lubricant , alloy 50-50 COWW / soft scrap lead .
The gas check is the secrete . Mainly it Helps when seating the boolit but also helps with leading at velocities @ 1000 fps with softish alloy . The soft boolit will mushroom on impact .

Powder Charge :
5.0 grains Unique @ 1125 fps - my pet load
5.0 grains HP38 @1135 fps
4.2 grains Red Dot @ 1083
4.2 grains Bullseye @ 1067

Standard taper crimp , seat boolit to pass plunk test .
Gary

[Burnt Fingers]

I'm pretty much using two boolits. A Saeco 115 and a MP 359-125 RNFP. Both are sized to .357 and coated with Hi-Tek.

Between my buddy and I we go through around 500-800 of these a week. We're using a variety of 9mm firearms.

Canik TP9SFX
RIA 1911
PSA AR Pistol
a couple different Glocks
Sig P365
S&W 5906
Ruger PCC

That's off the top of my head.

We're loading both boolits with 4 gr of WST right now. We're not having any leading problems at all.

[fredj338]

I do fine in all my 9mm with range scrap & 10% lino with conventional lubes, sized 0.357" in any 9mm. With PC I can go range scrap & 0.356" water dropped out of the PC oven. YMMV.

[RydForLyf]

Thanks to everyone for your info. I’ll do more testing this weekend but if anyone is interested in selling 50-100 of your ready to load bullets, I’d gladly reimburse you so I can try what you’re having success with.

Thanks!

[onelight]

The buddy's i shoot with that shoot Glocks buy .356 Hi-tek coated I have a couple of guns with the same style rifling as Glocks in 9 and 45 and shoot Hi-tek none of us get any leading . PC or Hi-tek seem to be much more forgiving than traditionally lubed bullets in many guns . I think I may try to PC my own cast if I ever get my building in back done.
Maybe someone here that does not use PC bullets in their Glocks will have an answer for you.

[RydForLyf]

The buddy's i shoot with that shoot Glocks buy .356 Hi-tek coated I have a couple of guns with the same style rifling as Glocks in 9 and 45 and shoot Hi-tek none of us get any leading . PC or Hi-tek seem to be much more forgiving than traditionally lubed bullets in many guns . I think I may try to PC my own cast if I ever get my building in back done.
Maybe someone here that does not use PC bullets in their Glocks will have an answer for you.

I’ve got 500 (5 x 100) hi-tek coated bullets, in different weights, arriving tomorrow from Bayou Bullets. Hopefully I’ll learn something good from them.

[onelight]

I’ve got 500 (5 x 100) hi-tek coated bullets, in different weights, arriving tomorrow from Bayou Bullets. Hopefully I’ll learn something good from them.
Good luck with them .
On the home page of SNS casting he talks a little about fast burning powders and Hi-tek .
In mine I use both red dot and be86 the guys I shoot with only BE-86 .But I have used a variety of powders that worked .

[kevin c]

Accurate and MP 147 bevel based cast of 95-3-2, two coats of HiTek, both with and without lube groove, loaded over 3.2 to 3.4 VV N320 to ~1.125", SPP. The rounds average 900 fps, and have never leaded my G34 factory barrels in the ~20,000 rounds I've fired.

[reloader28]

My mold is the Lee 125RF.
I'm using straight air cooled clip on WW at 15-16 BHN.
50/50 Alox/Beeswax and then 10% parafin wax and sized .358 and Bullseye powder.
But I think the best thing that makes 9mm easy is plain base gas checks. I had fits with a couple 9mms until these. Now we're using cast in about 10 different brands with no problems whatsoever. I think Sage Reloading sells them.

Nope I was wrong. Its Sages Outdoors

[Drew P]

Using a coating like hitek or PC is like cheating. It adds diameter, and prevents lead on steel contact.

[Drew P]

The buddy's i shoot with that shoot Glocks buy .356 Hi-tek coated I have a couple of guns with the same style rifling as Glocks in 9 and 45 and shoot Hi-tek none of us get any leading . PC or Hi-tek seem to be much more forgiving than traditionally lubed bullets in many guns . I think I may try to PC my own cast if I ever get my building in back done.
Maybe someone here that does not use PC bullets in their Glocks will have an answer for you.
Skip the pc and go right to hitek if you want my advice. I’ve tried both and the hitek is way way way easier and faster with less fuss and fiddling.

[pastera]

I was experiencing serious leading with a M&P 9C using the Lee 125-TC with 231.
Tried multiple levels of hardness. With lube, with Hitec, and with both Hitec and lube.
All of them leaded but the combination of lube and Hitek was acceptable (barely)

What fixed the issue was changing to a slower powder (CFE Pistol) which made the coating/lube and hardness choices almost irrelevant.

[onelight]

Skip the pc and go right to hitek if you want my advice. I’ve tried both and the hitek is way way way easier and faster with less fuss and fiddling.

If I decide to start I may take your advice I have had excellent results with the Hi-tek bullets I buy.

[RydForLyf]

Skip the pc and go right to hitek if you want my advice. I’ve tried both and the hitek is way way way easier and faster with less fuss and fiddling.

Hi-TEK is what I’m using and I’m still getting significant leading. I REALLY want to get away from lubing and sizing. Using the Star for sizing only is so much easier.

[RydForLyf]

I was experiencing serious leading with a M&P 9C using the Lee 125-TC with 231.
Tried multiple levels of hardness. With lube, with Hitec, and with both Hitec and lube.
All of them leaded but the combination of lube and Hitek was acceptable (barely)

What fixed the issue was changing to a slower powder (CFE Pistol) which made the coating/lube and hardness choices almost irrelevant.

I’m loading the Lee 356-125-TC with 3.5 gn of Clays. Clays is pretty fast burning. I’ll try something slower burning.

Thanks!

[Drew P]

Hi-TEK is what I’m using and I’m still getting significant leading. I REALLY want to get away from lubing and sizing. Using the Star for sizing only is so much easier.
Seems that the consensus is that while hi tek can help fix a problematic bullet fit, it will not fix a real problem, so you must address that first. PC, because it’s generally quite a bit thicker, could possibly mask a problem a little more, but it’s still not addressing the real issue. It also can create fit issues with extra thickness on other areas like the noses. If your bullet is too far smaller and that is why you’re leading, you might get a different mold or beagle it or whatever to get the size up. Or hone out your sizer etc. I know .002” seems like a lot of interference, and I’m at more like + .0005” on my 9mm’s, and I’m right at the ragged edge of being undersized in my belief. I think I’d really like a solid .001” interference fit in a perfect world.
I load all my 9mm with red dot. About as fast as it gets.
I believe that one of the big problems with 9mm loading is the fact that it’s a tapered case, so to return the dimensions to factory you end up with a bullet that’s swaged down by the case itself. So, it may not be ideal for a multi-firearm ammo, if possible see if you can chamber cases that are substantially wider at the mouth, and maybe size them down less, or watch that they don’t get crimped down after seating, squishing the bases to below acceptable diameter fit. Pull a few and measure them at the bases.

[onelight]

This is what it says on the SNS casting home page.
Attention All Customers! Over the years, we have noticed one common theme when it comes to dirty/leaded barrels...Powders with fast and or hot burn rates. Here is a link to a powder burn rate chart. We recommend powders with burn rates slower than the top 15 on this list, with the exceptions being Ramshot Competition, Red Dot, and N310.
Here is a link to SNS
https://www.snscasting.com/
I don't know enough about how powder burns to comment on how much difference powder choice makes , but the folks at SNS have this on the home page. I would assume it would be the same for any Hi-tek coated bullet

[RydForLyf]

Seems that the consensus is that while hi tek can help fix a problematic bullet fit, it will not fix a real problem, so you must address that first. PC, because it’s generally quite a bit thicker, could possibly mask a problem a little more, but it’s still not addressing the real issue. It also can create fit issues with extra thickness on other areas like the noses. If your bullet is too far smaller and that is why you’re leading, you might get a different mold or beagle it or whatever to get the size up. Or hone out your sizer etc. I know .002” seems like a lot of interference, and I’m at more like + .0005” on my 9mm’s, and I’m right at the ragged edge of being undersized in my belief. I think I’d really like a solid .001” interference fit in a perfect world.
I load all my 9mm with red dot. About as fast as it gets.
I believe that one of the big problems with 9mm loading is the fact that it’s a tapered case, so to return the dimensions to factory you end up with a bullet that’s swaged down by the case itself. So, it may not be ideal for a multi-firearm ammo, if possible see if you can chamber cases that are substantially wider at the mouth, and maybe size them down less, or watch that they don’t get crimped down after seating, squishing the bases to below acceptable diameter fit. Pull a few and measure them at the bases.

I've measured after sizing and I'm at 0.358. I loaded some and pulled a few and bullets were .3575/.358, so there's a bit of eccentricity. Looked at using a 38 S&W expander, but mine is too short. Weather permitting, I'll load some with slower powder this weekend.

I also just got in 400 coated Bayou Bullets in 124 GN, 135 GN, 145 GN and 147 GN to load and try to see if there is a different result with a more professional alloy.

[RydForLyf]

This is what it says on the SNS casting home page.
Attention All Customers! Over the years, we have noticed one common theme when it comes to dirty/leaded barrels...Powders with fast and or hot burn rates. Here is a link to a powder burn rate chart. We recommend powders with burn rates slower than the top 15 on this list, with the exceptions being Ramshot Competition, Red Dot, and N310.
Here is a link to SNS
https://www.snscasting.com/
I don't know enough about how powder burns to comment on how much difference powder choice makes , but the folks at SNS have this on the home page. I would assume it would be the same for any Hi-tek coated bullet

I shoot my 40's with W231/HP38 and it is really far down the list. I'm loading the 9's with Clays (#9 in their list) because I was using that for the 125 JHP's I was loading. I have some others further down the list to try this weekend.

[whisler]

I had leading with the Lee 125RF and 231. Tried the 38 S&W expander which helped some. Hardened the lead and that also helped some but still had leading. Switched to Unique (with 38 S&W expander and same hardened lead) and leading went away.

[Ateam]

The 9mm I had leading troubles with had a non existent throat, a few turns with a throating reamer and no more leading, might be worth a peek.

[leeggen]

I had leading at first with the 9mm. I finally slowed them way down and started back u in load. Found a sweet spot between 900fps and 1000fps. If I ran any faster it would lead, this was with a S&W2.0. It worked for me but everyone has to find their own sweet spot. (Alliant Power Pistol) Good luck with your workup.
CD

[Conditor22]

I have good luck with BE, RedDot & green dot in my 9MM's [I powdercoat everything] I used to HiTek coat but for small batches, it took too long. I like to run 5 -- 7# batches of boolits at a time when I do HiTek

[Burnt Fingers]

The 9mm I had leading troubles with had a non existent throat, a few turns with a throating reamer and no more leading, might be worth a peek.

This is something to consider. I had terrible leading with my Canik till I had DougGuy do the throat. Now there's no problem.

[onelight]

I had leading at first with the 9mm. I finally slowed them way down and started back u in load. Found a sweet spot between 900fps and 1000fps. If I ran any faster it would lead, this was with a S&W2.0. It worked for me but everyone has to find their own sweet spot. (Alliant Power Pistol) Good luck with your workup.
CD
Most of what I load is in the range you load in , my experience the faster you shoot them the more advanced techniques you have to add to the process. I also find 900 to a 1000 more pleasant to shoot.

[pastera]

I've measured after sizing and I'm at 0.358. I loaded some and pulled a few and bullets were .3575/.358, so there's a bit of eccentricity. Looked at using a 38 S&W expander, but mine is too short. Weather permitting, I'll load some with slower powder this weekend.

I also just got in 500 coated Bayou Bullets in 124 GN, 135 GN, 145 GN and 147 GN to load and try to see if there is a different result with a more professional alloy.

Find someone with a lathe - a new expander is an easy turning job.

I have to see if a 3d printed part will be strong enough - I use PLA for seating stems and top punches so with the right print settings it might be able to work as an expander (but probably not as a powder through expander)

[RydForLyf]

I had leading with the Lee 125RF and 231. Tried the 38 S&W expander which helped some. Hardened the lead and that also helped some but still had leading. Switched to Unique (with 38 S&W expander and same hardened lead) and leading went away.

Other than the Clays, I’ve got W231/HP38, WST, Power Pistol and Herco. This weekend is supposed to be nice, so I can do some experimenting.

[RydForLyf]

I had leading at first with the 9mm. I finally slowed them way down and started back u in load. Found a sweet spot between 900fps and 1000fps. If I ran any faster it would lead, this was with a S&W2.0. It worked for me but everyone has to find their own sweet spot. (Alliant Power Pistol) Good luck with your workup.
CD

Power Pistol is a great crowd pleaser, especially in dimly lit ranges. ;-)

[RydForLyf]

There may be better ways to go but the 32-20 cowboy set expander I have by rcbs is a very nice die for this. It’s long and has the step in it for lead

I tried my Dillon 38 expander, but it’s just too short.

[RydForLyf]

Find someone with a lathe - a new expander is an easy turning job.

I have to see if a 3d printed part will be strong enough - I use PLA for seating stems and top punches so with the right print settings it might be able to work as an expander (but probably not as a powder through expander)

A 9mm “L”, for Long, would be nice if someone made that expander.

[Drew P]

Find someone with a lathe - a new expander is an easy turning job.

I have to see if a 3d printed part will be strong enough - I use PLA for seating stems and top punches so with the right print settings it might be able to work as an expander (but probably not as a powder through expander)
I’d be very surprised if it would work as an expander. Or how long it would last even if it did. Brass is stronger than pla

[Burnt Fingers]

I tried my Dillon 38 expander, but it’s just too short.

If you have Dillon dies and a Dillon powder measure then get this part.

http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1582

I use this custom powder funnel to load my 9mm and it works like a champ.

[asmith80]

Lathesmith also makes a really nice 9mm custom powder funnel for the Dillon setup. I really like mine

[ioon44]

I would go with Lathesmith also, he is really good to deal with.

[mvintx]

I tried my Dillon 38 expander, but it’s just too short.

I was going to try that but I'm glad I read your post. It is shorter than the 9mm powder funnel.

[barnabus]

powder coat and your problem will be solved

[RydForLyf]

powder coat and your problem will be solved

Sorry, but powder coating isn't an option. I'm using HI-TEK on the bullets as my preferred coating.

However, great progress has been made by moving away from Clay's and using slower powder. Both Power Pistol and Herco, while not optimum for 9mm, are slow enough burning that they are shooting fine at minimum loads. Hopefully in the next week or so, I will be able to increase charges to find upper limits before leading returns.

[onelight]

Sorry, but powder coating isn't an option. I'm using HI-TEK on the bullets as my preferred coating.

However, great progress has been made by moving away from Clay's and using slower powder. Both Power Pistol and Herco, while not optimum for 9mm, are slow enough burning that they are shooting fine at minimum loads. Hopefully in the next week or so, I will be able to increase charges to find upper limits before leading returns.

I have had great results with Alliant BE-86 with Hi-Tek coated a good powder for 9mm

[RydForLyf]

I have had great results with Alliant BE-86 with Hi-Tek coated a good powder for 9mm

When I burn through the 2 pounds of Herco I've got, BE-86 is one of the ones on my shopping list.

Thanks!

[ioon44]

I have had good results with CFE Pistol with Hi-Tek coated bullets, I have been trying to use up a 8 pounder of 700 X in 9 mm, .40 S&W & .45 and not had any problem with Hi-Tek coating. Bullet size after loading and throat length always need to be considered.

[RydForLyf]

I have had good results with CFE Pistol with Hi-Tek coated bullets, I have been trying to use up a 8 pounder of 700 X in 9 mm, .40 S&W & .45 and not had any problem with Hi-Tek coating. Bullet size after loading and throat length always need to be considered.

Powder Valley has free Hazmat through tonight, so I'm getting an order ready of some slower powders to try while it's a bit cheaper. CFE Pistol is on my list.

[OutHuntn84]

For what its worth, I've never had any problems with any of mine with any molds. I use COWW and SOWW in a 2:1 ratio or pure COWW. I size to .357" and lube with Carnauba Red. I like to use Unique powder and load mine anywhere between 850 to 1000 fps. YMMV but its what works well for me. Good luck!!!

[RydForLyf]

For what its worth, I've never had any problems with any of mine with any molds. I use COWW and SOWW in a 2:1 ratio or pure COWW. I size to .357" and lube with Carnauba Red. I like to use Unique powder and load mine anywhere between 850 to 1000 fps. YMMV but its what works well for me. Good luck!!!

Man, you gotta get out of the caveman days and come on over to the HI-TEK side. Life is so much better with no lube and pretty bullets. ;-)

[tazman]

CFE Pistol and Longshot are great for 9mm. The Longshot for higher end loads and the CFE Pistol for everything. For heavy for caliber boolits, I use AA7.
I can't offer any suggestions as to what may be causing your leading as I have never owned a Glock. I doubt my experiences will transfer.

[jsanch03]

Reading the op’s post reminded me of the trials and tribulations that I went through when figuring cast loads for my g17-g4. What now worms for me has been information/techniques and approaches that I’ve read about from fellow members on castboolits. Here’s my set-up:

Alloy is COWW with 1-2% tin added cast out of a lee 120-TC 6 cavity mold. Then they’re powder coated with smokes Carolina blue and sized to 356. Yes, that’s 356. I was having way to many issues with 357 and 358 sized bullets because my range brass consists of various brands that have various case thickness.

I load on a Dillon xl 650 with a Lyman m die in station #1 which opens up the case and adds a slight flare. Station #2 regular Dillon powder thru plug. Station #3 powder check. Station #4 (seating station) has been the most challenging prior to what I’ve done. You want to eliminate seating the boolit crooked so I bought a Hornady bullet alignment seating die with the alignment sleeve. This has by far reduced any issue with seating crooked bullets. The TC design was not playing well with the original Dillon seating die even after reversing the seating plug. Station #5 crimp to .379.

My loads work in my gun and my data is from my experience. I use 3.9-4 grains of sport pistol at an OAL of 1.075. After powder coating my boolit comes out to about 125gr.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crackers]

“Man, you gotta get out of the caveman days...”
...and try a simple shake and bake.

[Landshark9025]

Sorry, but powder coating isn't an option. I'm using HI-TEK on the bullets as my preferred coating.

However, great progress has been made by moving away from Clay's and using slower powder. Both Power Pistol and Herco, while not optimum for 9mm, are slow enough burning that they are shooting fine at minimum loads. Hopefully in the next week or so, I will be able to increase charges to find upper limits before leading returns.

I tried Hi-ten nine ways to Sunday. Different temps, different durations, with a PID, without, letting dry overnight, the two part liquid variety and the powdered variety. They always passed the smash and wipe tests, but would also lead. Only one thing cured it for good....

Two top coats of BLL. Worked like a champ and I hear there’s a new formula now as One-step is no longer available.

I just powder coat now.

[RydForLyf]

I tried Hi-ten nine ways to Sunday. Different temps, different durations, with a PID, without, letting dry overnight, the two part liquid variety and the powdered variety. They always passed the smash and wipe tests, but would also lead. Only one thing cured it for good....

Two top coats of BLL. Worked like a champ and I hear there’s a new formula now as One-step is no longer available.

I just powder coat now.

I'm using HI-TEK and getting great results now. My main problem was my choice of powder, Clay's was just too fast. Once I moved down the burn rate chart, results changed drastically.

I'm a happy camper now.

Best of luck to you.

[nueces5]

I think I have improved a lot, but I have some occasional keyholing with my G17.
What I have done is to increase my diameter (I used the lee 120 TC, but I had no luck), with a RCBS 9mm 124 cn mold, which gives me about .357, then I make PC and then read sizing die .358
It has also helped me a lot to change the serial expander of my 550 dillon for one that I bought here in the forum made by mr lathesmith and expands the mouth of the brass to 358
The brass is a problem, unfortunately I shoot IPSC and guide my reload method so that I can load all the brass. But some have more problems than others.
Hernan

[RydForLyf]

I think I have improved a lot, but I have some occasional keyholing with my G17.
What I have done is to increase my diameter (I used the lee 120 TC, but I had no luck), with a RCBS 9mm 124 cn mold, which gives me about .357, then I make PC and then read sizing die .358
It has also helped me a lot to change the serial expander of my 550 dillon for one that I bought here in the forum made by mr lathesmith and expands the mouth of the brass to 358
The brass is a problem, unfortunately I shoot IPSC and guide my reload method so that I can load all the brass. But some have more problems than others.
Hernan

That is very interesting as keyholing with the Lee 120TC was my initial problem in a G17 too. It was detected at a GSSF match when inspecting targets. It appears that the rounds were just tumbling in the general direction of the target. I sent that mold to eBay heaven and replaced it with the Lee 356-125-2R and I have no sign of tumbling. My guess was that the G17 just wasn't getting a good grip and wasn't getting it spun up fast enough. I also had horrible leading with it too.

I'm glad you've found something that works. The 9mm can be quite the challenge to get it to run well.

[asmith80]

I'm glad you've found something that works. The 9mm can be quite the challenge to get it to run well.

Amen to that. I thought I had it licked when I was using my Lee Classic Turret Press, and then when I switched to a Dillon 550, it's like I had to figure out the solution to a whole new set of problems.

[RydForLyf]

Amen to that. I thought I had it licked when I was using my Lee Classic Turret Press, and then when I switched to a Dillon 550, it's like I had to figure out the solution to a whole new set of problems.

I can't imagine switching presses would affect a load, unless you switched dies and started using something like a Lee FCD which has a really bad reputation in the cast 9mm world.

[asmith80]

I did switch from RCBS dies to Dillon dies and had some trouble getting the sizing die and the crimp die set up so that I would get reliable feeding. It was a different set of problems to what I had with the LCT which was leading and unintentionally swaging boolits

[dverna]

Good thread.

[ioon44]

About a year ago I switched from Dillon 9 mm to Hornady 9mm for my 550 and a lot of my bullet swagging problems went away.

[RydForLyf]

About a year ago I switched from Dillon 9 mm to Hornady 9mm for my 550 and a lot of my bullet swagging problems went away.

What specifically did you change?

[ioon44]

The 3 die set, I still use the F funnel with the Dillon powder measure and bell the case to about .390" depending on the tensile strength of the brand of case.

[RydForLyf]

Let the cast 9mm experimenting begin.

https://i.imgur.com/TQwcOC9.jpg

If you’ve got any favorite 9mm loads with any of the above pictured powders, please share.

If it ain’t in the picture, I ain’t got it. :-D

[jsanch03]

Ahhhh yes, the fun of experimenting with various powders and the ladder tests that come with it. Please share your results. I myself am interested. Alliant sport pistol has been my go to lately with a 124gr boolit (lee 356-120 tc). I’ve used bullseye and titegroup in the past but rather then attribute the leading (even with powder coated boolits) I think i was getting brass spring back and bullet swaging from not expanding the case enough.

Now that I use a Lyman m die and a Hornady bullet seater with the alignment sleeve on my Dillon I’m thinking about revisiting loads with bullseye and titegroup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ioon44]

I am starting to use Alliant Sport Pistol for 9 mm really impressed with how well it meters, some of my chrno data shows ES of 8 a lot of the time.

[geslayton]

I am starting to use Alliant Sport Pistol for 9 mm really impressed with how well it meters, some of my chrno data shows ES of 8 a lot of the time.How clean does it shoot? I have been using ramshot zip and it meters well and functions fine but it is somewhat dirty. I'm about out of it and wanting to switch to something cleaner that won't eat the coating off my bullets for long term storage

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

[dverna]

I am starting to use Alliant Sport Pistol for 9 mm really impressed with how well it meters, some of my chrno data shows ES of 8 a lot of the time.

It's a 9mm pistol...ES is moot. We are not shooting MOA groups. The OP needs a powder that may affect the degree of leading he is experiencing. That typically will be the slowest powder that will give acceptable performance...consistent cycling, reasonable velocity and accuracy.

If the slowest powder will not improve leading...I doubt any powder will help so that is how I would approach the problem. Next will be bullet (size and alloy), then lube. I only put lube last as any good lube should work. If I PC'ed, I would use that.

As a last resort. PB GC's. Not acceptable for me as I shoot too much. For the handful of hunting or SD loads one might need, it remains an option and should allow softer alloy.

Wanted to add:
If you know someone with the same gun, try out their barrel. The other option is one of the after market barrels. I bought one for my Glock 22 so I could use 9mm.

[RydForLyf]

An update to my original post is in order.

No more lube. It’s all HI-TEK coated bullets from here on out. Also, no more Clay’s. I’ve already gotten rid of my leading by switching to a slower powder, Power Pistol and Herco. I took advantage of Powder Valley’s “no hazmat” sale to load up on other slower powders looking for best accuracy and feel. Unfortunately, PV was out of some I wanted to try. I’ve still got plenty for solid testing sessions.

Thanks to all for the great input so far.

[mvintx]

I'll add a vote for Power Pistol. In my testing so far, it is more accurate than Red Dot, Unique and Bullseye. The boolit is a powder coated Lyman 356402 and I'm using a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel in a Glock 23.

[onelight]

Amen to that. I thought I had it licked when I was using my Lee Classic Turret Press, and then when I switched to a Dillon 550, it's like I had to figure out the solution to a whole new set of problems.
I relate to what you experienced each press , other than single stage , seem to have a learning curve to get them set up where they work smoothly and where we learn to operate them in the way they work best . Usually takes a few sessions at least for me.

[ioon44]

How clean does it shoot? I have been using ramshot zip and it meters well and functions fine but it is somewhat dirty. I'm about out of it and wanting to switch to something cleaner that won't eat the coating off my bullets for long term storage

Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

The Sport Pistol seems to shoot clean but all powders will leave some carbon or un burnt powder.

I use Hi-Tek coating and as far as I know powders don't effect the Hi-Tek coating.

[asmith80]

From everything I've read and with some of my own testing Sport Pistol is extremely similar to VV N320. It's got almost the same burn rate, similar charge weights to get similar velocity, both really clean burning, and both meter really well. Plus, Sport Pistol is much cheaper in the US than N320. Once I get through my 8lb. jug of Bullseye I'm going to switch over to Sport Pistol permanently

[RydForLyf]

So far in my Reloading Powder Shoot Off, the one that has really gotten my attention is Winchester Autocomp. Knowing that it was designed for compensated race guns, someone forget to tell the powder to not perform in a stock G17. Loving it!

First, when shooting across the chrono, the consistency was outstanding. I’m using range brass of mixed head stamps, so I’m not expecting super consistency, but I got it. Granted sample size is small at 5 shot strings but I was impressed

5.0 gr of AC behind a HI-TEK coated Lee 356-125-2R gave 1,074 FPS, SD 5.4 and ES 13. I was working to baseline all powders for 125 pf, so I started turning it down and the first thing I noticed was how easy this powder was to precisely control the velocity. Sometimes you have to chase a load to get the desired speed, but with AC, it felt like a volume knob. It was really nice. Maybe I was just lucky, but it measures so great, it was a joy to use.

Part 2 of the testing was to take my 125 pf baseline loads and ladder up in .1 gr increments to check accuracy. I started 4.5 gr of AC up through 4.8. Accuracy was ok starting out, but at 4.8, it tore a bloody hole in the target. The group was great.

Next step is to take the 4 best groups and build a magazine full of each one and put all of them on the same sheet of paper to eliminate variables like lighting and possible fatigue.

The results aren’t in yet, but the Autocomp has really gotten my attention in this stock G17. I was very surprised.

For the other end of the scale, I’m finding Universal difficult to work with, mainly metering. It is such a bulky powder, it just doesn’t meter very easily, especially in low charges in my Redding Micrometer Measure. I love the way it’s impossible to double charge, but it’s just “crunchy” in the measure. I understand it’s awesome in 9mm, but for testing purposes, it’s not easy to work with.

If anyone cares, here are the baseline charges I found for 125 pf for the Lee 356-125-2R

AA #5 5.7 999 FPS
Autocomp 4.54 1000 FPS
CFE Pistol 4.6 1006 FPS
HS-6 5.4 999 FPS
Universal 4.1 1005 FPS

[canyon-ghost]

Since you seem to have leading issues, there is one thing that will cause it. No one has mentioned copper fouling. To make lead shoot well, I've had to shoot only well cleaned barrels dedicated soley to lead bullets. I may load a 9mm with hollowpoints for defense, but won't fire them if I don't have to. I use wheelweight , hardening isn't necessary for my uses. Stubborn copper fouling will rip lead from the sides of your cast projectiles. Just a thought, guys.

Good Luck, Ron

[RydForLyf]

Since you seem to have leading issues, there is one thing that will cause it. No one has mentioned copper fouling. To make lead shoot well, I've had to shoot only well cleaned barrels dedicated soley to lead bullets. I may load a 9mm with hollowpoints for defense, but won't fire them if I don't have to. I use wheelweight , hardening isn't necessary for my uses. Stubborn copper fouling will rip lead from the sides of your cast projectiles. Just a thought, guys.

Good Luck, Ron

Choosing a slower powder was the solution to my leading problems. I shot 600 - 700 rounds this weekend doing load development and no leading issues. Just like SNS Casting states, powder choice is a major factor in shooting cast in lead. Maybe now I can sell off the KKM barrels I bought just to be able to shoot cast in the Glocks.

[canyon-ghost]

Since you seem to have leading issues, there is one thing that will cause it. No one has mentioned copper fouling. To make lead shoot well, I've had to shoot only well cleaned barrels dedicated soley to lead bullets. I may load a 9mm with hollowpoints for defense, but won't fire them if I don't have to. I use wheelweight , hardening isn't necessary for my uses. Stubborn copper fouling will rip lead from the sides of your cast projectiles. Just a thought, guys.

Good Luck, Ron
258282

[h8dirt]

IME ... I solved the same problem in my G34 by replacing the Glock barrel with a Storm Lake traditionally rifled barrel. It’s a drop in part, it’s fairly inexpensive and will shoot under two inch groups at 25 yards with a basic lead reload. The Glock barrels are notoriously problematic with lead alloys. YMMV.

[onelight]

Choosing a slower powder was the solution to my leading problems. I shot 600 - 700 rounds this weekend doing load development and no leading issues. Just like SNS Casting states, powder choice is a major factor in shooting cast in lead. Maybe now I can sell off the KKM barrels I bought just to be able to shoot cast in the Glocks.
It's great to hear you got a clean shooting load !

[jsanch03]

Plus 1 on the copper fouling mention. I use a piece of cloth wrapped around a worn brush with Kroil and JB bore paste. I’ll call it clean after about 60 back and forth strokes. Then With a clean patch and JB bore paste polish (purple color paste) I’ll run it back and forth in the barrel about 60 strokes. After that the bore is pretty good looking.

This also works for me when I cleaned a sewer pipe bore of a Mosin and SMLE.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RydForLyf]

Since you seem to have leading issues, there is one thing that will cause it. No one has mentioned copper fouling. To make lead shoot well, I've had to shoot only well cleaned barrels dedicated soley to lead bullets. I may load a 9mm with hollowpoints for defense, but won't fire them if I don't have to. I use wheelweight , hardening isn't necessary for my uses. Stubborn copper fouling will rip lead from the sides of your cast projectiles. Just a thought, guys.

Good Luck, Ron
258282

I'm having a feeling of Deja vu right about now. Either that, or it's Ground Hog Day all over again.

[RydForLyf]

IME ... I solved the same problem in my G34 by replacing the Glock barrel with a Storm Lake traditionally rifled barrel. It’s a drop in part, it’s fairly inexpensive and will shoot under two inch groups at 25 yards with a basic lead reload. The Glock barrels are notoriously problematic with lead alloys. YMMV.

Yes, I already have replacement barrels, KKM, that I mentioned I will no longer need since I'm now successfully shooting lead through the stock barrels. GSSF matches do not allow aftermarket barrels, so stock barrels is where it's at for me.