Sizing .410 cast bullets to .401

[Muddydogs]

I was wondering if sizing the Lee 410 195 swc bullet down to .401 diameter would be to much sizing? Looking at shooting it out of a 10mm XDm as a bear load.

[454PB]

That much reduction would probably eliminate or greatly reduce the lube grooves. You may want to look for an alternate lube, like powder coating or Alox.

[megasupermagnum]

Plenty of people have certainly done it. My mold casts .410", and .405" on the front band, so it's not sizing that much.

[Muddydogs]

Plenty of people have certainly done it. My mold casts .410", and .405" on the front band, so it's not sizing that much.

Thanks for the numbers, to bad Lee doesn't have a data sheet with there mold specs like other makers do, or at least I don't know of one. I'm going to give it a go and see how it works.

[megasupermagnum]

Definitely lube before sizing, whether it's wax, alox, or powder coat. Consider a .405" sizer as an intermediate step. A push through sizer works better than a Lyman style.

[mdi]

Thanks for the numbers, to bad Lee doesn't have a data sheet with there mold specs like other makers do, or at least I don't know of one. I'm going to give it a go and see how it works.

This might help; https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/CastBulletLength.pdf

[Muddydogs]

Definitely lube before sizing, whether it's wax, alox, or powder coat. Consider a .405" sizer as an intermediate step. A push through sizer works better than a Lyman style.

I'll try running them through to Lyman sizer die first, if that doesn't work then I'll try sizing them through the Lee 401 push through before lubing in the sizer. If all else fails then I will pick up a 405 push through, might just have to get me a NOE die then. Hope I don't have to deal with a push through die and the 45/45/10 lube but if I do then so be it.
I've stayed away from powder coating so far.

[Muddydogs]

This might help; https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/CastBulletLength.pdf

Thanks for the link. While it has some interesting numbers I guess I never needed to know the distance from parts of a bullet to it's nose.

[mart]

Before I got my molds for it, I resized quite a few 41 magnum bullets to .403 for use in my 401 Powermag. These are a 410459 220 SWC, a 230 grain FP and a 280 grain LBT WLNGC. All sized with a Lee push through .403 die. Even though the 280 grain looks like the crimp groove is almost gone, there was enough left to get a good crimp. I had no bullet jump with it and it shot very well in the 401. I ended up having LBT make a 240 grain WLN for my 401. If you are using a taper crimp in the 10mm you won't need to worry about a crimp groove. Sizing to .401 shouldn't be a problem.

256125

[gwpercle]

Tip !
When sizing down a boolit more than .002" :
Don't use a super hard alloy .
Don't water drop harden and then try to size.
Size as soon as possible ...the same day or the next day... boolits begin to age harden soon after casting .

Soft boolits are much easier to size down than Hard boolits ...much easier !
Sizing to an intermediate size is also helpful than going down .009" all in one fell swoop .
Gary

[Muddydogs]

Tip !
When sizing down a boolit more than .002" :
Don't use a super hard alloy .
Don't water drop harden and then try to size.
Size as soon as possible ...the same day or the next day... boolits begin to age harden soon after casting .

Soft boolits are much easier to size down than Hard boolits ...much easier !
Sizing to an intermediate size is also helpful than going down .009" all in one fell swoop .
Gary

Ya well unfortunately I'm looking for hard bullets and was planning on water dropping COWW lead. Guess we will see how it goes. Guess I should pick up a NOE .403 or .404 die and bushing.

[Muddydogs]

Before I got my molds for it, I resized quite a few 41 magnum bullets to .403 for use in my 401 Powermag. These are a 410459 220 SWC, a 230 grain FP and a 280 grain LBT WLNGC. All sized with a Lee push through .403 die. Even though the 280 grain looks like the crimp groove is almost gone, there was enough left to get a good crimp. I had no bullet jump with it and it shot very well in the 401. I ended up having LBT make a 240 grain WLN for my 401. If you are using a taper crimp in the 10mm you won't need to worry about a crimp groove. Sizing to .401 shouldn't be a problem.

256125

I'm going to taper crimp.

Tonight I'm going to slug the bore to make sure its .401 though I do get some leading in my .40 and would really like to shoot .402 bullets but dang a .402 lube sizer die is kind of expensive as lube sizer dies go.

[megasupermagnum]

Don't try and fix problems before they happen. I do this too often myself. Chances are things will work out fine. It is quite easy to lap a sizer out .001" with nothing but emery cloth and a wood dowel. A hand drill makes things easier too. You can water drop bullets. Soft bullets are easier to size, but quenched bullets do not immediately harden. Size them the same day, and you will be ok. I regularly size down .005", which is no big deal. Sizing down .008"-.009" is not going to be that much more difficult.

I would lube before you size down heavily though. There are two reasons for this. One, it lubes the die, which makes things much easier. And two, it keeps the lube grooves from collapsing. You can try sizing without lube in the grooves, but I would still use something like case sizing wax to lube the bullet.

[BK7saum]

Do you have a 0.410 lubesizer die? You should size and lube to 0.410 before sizing smaller. The presence of the lube will help retain the lube grooves, plus the lube will ease the friction of sizing.

I would size and lube to 0.410, size to .405 or 0.406, then final size to 0.401 or 0.402.

0.004 or 0.005" is a lot for a Lyman sizer, especially with a hard bullet. I would size immediately or at least same day if possible.

It would be another step, but 0.002-0.003" is a doable sizing step, maybe even for a lyman.

[BK7saum]

I have sized 0.412" bullets to 0.401" in 2 steps. I did not lube as these were for a sabot muzzleloader load. They were relatively soft, range lead, air cooled. It nearly wiped the lube grooves out. If looking to shoot as a lubed bullet, I doubt there would have been enough lube.

[mart]

Those 280 grain bullets were a hard bullet (16 BHN) and many years old. They sized with not a lot of difficulty from .412 to .403 with a Rockchucker press. I did use a little Hornady Unique lube. Great lube and I like it better than Imperial.

[GregLaROCHE]

It can be sized even with hard alloy. I stick to the .002 each step rule for boolits over .30cal. It would be best to lube for sizing. You may have a difficult time getting PC to stick with all the lube pressed in. There won’t be much grease grove left, so Alox would be the best way to go.

[Muddydogs]

Slugged the pistol barrel and I do believe its .401 which kind of puts a spin on things as I will need a bigger die then the .401's I have in stock but less bullet sizing over all.

[megasupermagnum]

Slugged the pistol barrel and I do believe its .401 which kind of puts a spin on things as I will need a bigger die then the .401's I have in stock but less bullet sizing over all.

.402" is a regular size that many use in 10mm. I wouldn't discount .403" either. You can buy them right from Buffaloarms, or you can lap your .401".

[GregLaROCHE]

Think about getting the setup NOE sells. After you buy the original die, you can buy all sizes if inserts inexpensively. They work great for me and others. Here’s a link.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=564_104&osCsid=pbbmja39it2mv4ev4j1lqs1kb0

[Muddydogs]

Think about getting the setup NOE sells. After you buy the original die, you can buy all sizes if inserts inexpensively. They work great for me and others. Here’s a link.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=564_104&osCsid=pbbmja39it2mv4ev4j1lqs1kb0

I've got a shopping cart with the die body and a few .40* body dies in it as well as a couple expanders in the .40* sizes.

[rockrat]

Suggest you try the size/lube @.410 first, then try and run them thru the .401" push thru first, before you do anything else. If it works, your good to go, if not, then go another route.

[mdi]

Thanks for the link. While it has some interesting numbers I guess I never needed to know the distance from parts of a bullet to it's nose. In the photo below that link is an explanation of the mold dimensions, via the part/mold number. In the pic the bullet when cast with the same alloy as Lee used is a gas checked, .308" diameter, 230 grain, round nose. But slight variations in the weight and as cast diameter occur often because of alloy, temperatures and method may differ from what Lee uses...

[Muddydogs]

In the photo below that link is an explanation of the mold dimensions, via the part/mold number. In the pic the bullet when cast with the same alloy as Lee used is a gas checked, .308" diameter, 230 grain, round nose. But slight variations in the weight and as cast diameter occur often because of alloy, temperatures and method may differ from what Lee uses...

Not sure if I'm missing something or not. What megasupermagnum posted was band dimensions and I refereed to other mold makers that have a spec sheet showing what the band, lube groove and other aspects of the bullet dimensions are. Are you saying that Lee has a sheet like this and I'm just not finding it?

Now this is a spec sheet though NOE's new site makes the pic hard to see, hope they fix that. https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/401/403-181-wfn-am1/403-181-wfn-am1-2-cavity-pb

[megasupermagnum]

Not sure if I'm missing something or not. What megasupermagnum posted was band dimensions and I refereed to other mold makers that have a spec sheet showing what the band, lube groove and other aspects of the bullet dimensions are. Are you saying that Lee has a sheet like this and I'm just not finding it?

Now this is a spec sheet though NOE's new site makes the pic hard to see, hope they fix that. https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/401/403-181-wfn-am1/403-181-wfn-am1-2-cavity-pb

For the most part, Lee molds drop the diameter the number says, most .001" over that, I have a few .002" large. I've only had one out of about 20 drop .001" small. It would be nice to at least see that the front driving band is undersized. What's odd is my 452-252-swc, which for all purposes should be the exact same bullet scaled up to 45 caliber, has a full diameter front driving band.

CNC's are an amazing thing.

[Muddydogs]

All my Lee molds drop at size or .001 over also.

[Muddydogs]

Well I cast up some .410's last night which dropped about .411 with air cooled COWW lead. About 30 minutes after casting I ran a few through the Lyman lube sizer .401 die just to see what happens. Well that much sizing sure produces a nice shinny bullet with large driving bands and not a whole lot of room left in the lube grooves. Didn't find the force needed to run a dry bullet .010 over sized through the lube sizer die was all that much more then sizing normal sized bullets.

About that time my Midway order showed up so I went about getting stuff set up to load the 200 grain XTP's. I'll mess with the lead bullets more once I get the right sized sizer die I need.

[Wayne Smith]

If you have lube in the lube grooves it holds them open. Lube is essentially uncompressible. Lube first and then size to your hearts content - well, maybe not quite! But lube first and you will maintain your lube grooves.

[megasupermagnum]

Yep, lube first, and all should be fine. If this is to be a low-volume bullet, I've had great luck dip lubing. I melt some wax lube in a double boiler, hold a bullet by the nose, and dip the lube grooves into the wax 3 times. I then use an expanded fired case to cut the excess off. It's a pain, but it is way easier than pan lubing. I also drill the primer pocket out to fit some kind of stick through to eject the bullet.

[Muddydogs]

Sounds like it would be a good idea like suggested above to lube size at .410 first then size down to .403. I don't really want to dip or pan lube these as I get enough of that mess with .50 and .54 conicals I cast.

I ordered a .403 lube sizer die from Buffalo Arm's today, supposed to take 3 to 4 weeks since its a made to order item.

I didn't realize that lube in the grooves would help hold them open, thanks for that tidbit.

[mdi]

Not sure if I'm missing something or not. What megasupermagnum posted was band dimensions and I refereed to other mold makers that have a spec sheet showing what the band, lube groove and other aspects of the bullet dimensions are. Are you saying that Lee has a sheet like this and I'm just not finding it?

Now this is a spec sheet though NOE's new site makes the pic hard to see, hope they fix that. https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/401/403-181-wfn-am1/403-181-wfn-am1-2-cavity-pb

Have you ever thought about contacting Lee?