Dumb Question

[Fly]

I keep hearing reduced loads, like 60% below normal load? What is that? case volume, weight? what is normal load?

Sorry for the dumb question but I must lean someway.

Fly[smilie=1:

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Is this a general or specific question? I mean, do you seek reduced load(s) for one certain cartridge like 7.62x54Rmm, or are you seeking an explanation of reduced loads in general?

[popper]

"normal' load is from reloading manuals. Some powders will work below manual loads, some are DANGEROUS when loaded below min. Problem is they don't burn correctly and can cause pressure spikes.

[gumbo333]

When it comes to reloading, never has been a dumb question, as I have asked many on this forum. People here are great. The 60% you are asking about is likely refering to H4895. Check the Hodgdon site. I think it is safe to reduce H4895 60% by weight from max loads. Check it out though. For Trail Boss you can reduce loads 70% by volumn in the cartridge case from where the powder just touches the bottom of a seated bullet. Never compress Trail Boss. Check that out also. There is a plethera of internet load data for rifle cartridges using greatly reduced pistol and shotgun "fast" powders, using greatly reduced charges in rifle cartridges. These are usually given as starting weights and max weights, not as a % of reduced powder weights or volumn. They occupy very little of the cartridge case. Fast powders can build pressure fast. Check out gmdr.com. You need to really know what you are doing with these reduced loads. If I'm all wrong or complety missed the point, someone please correct me.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

In discussions like these, the term "normal load" usually needs defining, just like Hardcast alloy usually needs defining. Every day I see questions with terms that need defining before a good answer can be offered.
:killingpc

[Fly]

OK this sounds like a mixed bag of answers. For me yes it is for shooting cast in MN. I been reading a lot from different sites, even though this
is my main one. I have loaded my ammo for years. But not for Military rifles. I just went by the recommended loads for 9mm, 40 SW & so on.
I have many Milsap rifles. SKS, Swiss, Finn & so on. I won't attempt loading for my PCL though, just bolt actions. But there is just so many powders
& loads. I need to get some 2400 but there is not any places in east Okla, to find it. Next trip to OKC or Tulsa, No problem. Any way that is why I,m asking.
I,m wanting to get around 1800 to 2000 fps. I don,t care to shoot wimp loads. Yes I have slugged my bore & fitted my bullets.I have 155 to
208 grain bullets & know they take different powder loads. Most are gas checked & all powder coat or HI-Tek coated. At those fps I don't
see leading.
Fly

[popper]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?152431-Recipes-for-quot-Mouse-Fart-quot-Loads-in-30-06
Couple threads here for reduced loads to give you an idea. Unique is reasonable, 2400 works pretty well. Most pistol powders work as well (not H110) at 5gr or less. Have to verify your bullet leaves the bore. Generally GC not required and accuracy may not be the best. Typically powders will be between HP38 and 2400. 4227 and H4895 work OK. Other rifle powders generally need good case fill (maybe filler added) to work properly.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I agree with everyone posting so far. Fly, I knew you had been working with and asking about 7.62x54Rmm in other posts, and figured that was the area in which you want information. But, like others are saying, to get a good answer a question has to be more precise, and terms have to be defined. Even then it's kind of hard to say exactly what is "normal". If you want to say that normal is any load that appears in a published reloading manual that's fine, but it covers a wide range of loads. Further, there's often disagreement among the manuals as to what the maximum load is for any given powder and cartridge, some going as high as 2 or 3 grains above another. But, if 1,800-2,000 fps. is what you're looking for, I've found that most manuals list starting loads in this range, and that is a favorite velocity range of mine. I really enjoy loading cartridges such as the .30-30 Win. and .30-40 Krag, and I like to load with powders that produce the lowest chamber pressures possible in that velocity range. These loads are easy to find in manuals and are just fine for normal hunting applications. They are not "reduced loads" per se, but just reasonable starting loads. There are also the often talked about universal milsurp loadings like 12 gr. of Red Dot, etc., but I've never run across a "Manual of Reduced Loads", although one may exist. I believe that for the most part such loads are the results of experiments of individual reloaders and the swapping of information thus obtained. It's always a little risky to experiment around with untried, unpublished loads; but there is probably far less danger in doing so with reduced loads than with maximum-plus loads. Some of the folks on the Forum seem to be experts in reduced loads and especially in those using fillers to take up excess space in the cartridge case, and perhaps they'll chime in to help you if you'll cite specific cartridges for which you seek the information. A reloader really can never have too many reloading manuals.

[Fly]

Der Gebirgsjager you read my mine. That was spot on as to my thinking.

Thank you Fly

[Fly]

(quote,
(A reloader really can never have too many reloading manuals.) That is so true! I have Lee manual & it is very limited to loading cast 7.62x54. Pistol cast loads are
very good but not cast milsurp loadings.

Fly

[popper]

around 1800 to 2000 fps That is not a very 'reduced' load. More like 'normal' cast hunting range. 2400 is not good there. Find some H4895 to try. Lets you get on your feet loading for rifle without error. later you can experiment.

[john.k]

Might be referring to the possibility of SEE from loading 4895(and others ) to case volume fill of less than 60%.....as far as I can ascertain,this rule only applies to bottlenecked cases......Strange thing about Trail boss is some of the ADI loading guides quote compressed loads ......personally ,I dont think compression is an issue,the issue is in using too much TB for the case volume.....in other words ,defeating the claim you cant overload with TB.

[Fly]

What would be a good lead loading manual ?

Fly

[LAGS]

Lyman Cast Bullet Manuals

[popper]

Hodgdon.com, reloading data. Pick middle of range or lower. H4895 has a section for kid loads. Imr is not the same. I've run 4895 to 2700 in 308, 20 gr for light load in 30/30. If I'd started with it the several #s of 335 wouldn't be wasted. IMHO, it's a very good beginners powder.

[725]

Older Speer manuals ( and maybe newer ones too - I don't have newer ones) publish reduced recoil loads. They may fit the general bill for what you are looking for. Still zippy and depending on the particulars, suitable for hunting. I know reduced .270 loads are just the ticket for coyote. :)

[LAGS]

I think what the OP is looking for is "Reduced Loads" for powders that he Has.
Reduced loads in the manuals use Other powders that can be reduced safely like 4198 and such.
I always went by the 60 percent of the case Volume so the powder when laying flat in the case is higher than the primer flash hole , somewhat preventing a Flash Over across the top of the powder .
A filler helps take up the space and keeps the powder back against the primer where it can Burn , rather than Flash.
But I am not a loading Expert.
I prefer to go by published data which will have slight safety perimeters built in.
But that also depends on the rifle and other components.
IE.
You just can't take Any powder , Reduce it , and add Filler.
The proper powders should be used.
Is your life or gun worth the cost of another can of the proper powder ?

[Fly]

Lags you brought up the Lyman cast bullet manuals. I looked them up & most are out of print but can still be had for inflated
prices. But my question do they have data on load cast for milsurps. I did order a 50th Lyman edition which I really did need.
I,m surprised no one has published a book concerning this topic with data.

Fly

[trapper9260]

Lyman have a new cast bullet manual. It is not just came out but been out for about 2 to 3 years now that is the up date one . I thing there is about 4 of the series of there manuals. If you do not mind any reprints I think it is Cornnel Publishing have them. here is the link of the one I am talk about . https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Cast-Bullet-Handbook-4Th/dp/B07PSNM3KV

[LAGS]

Fly.
I will find my two Lyman Manuals and get you the info you might need for the 150 gr and 200 gr cast Boolits.
Are you only using them in the 7.62x54 for right now ?

[Fly]

Ya the bullets you sent me & the 155g Lee,s I cast.

Thanks buddy Fly

[john.k]

Make sure you get the latest Lyman cast bullet handbook.....the previous one ,on sale some places at a $5 discount is seriously out of date,like 40 years .....so be sure to get the latest.

[LAGS]

I have edition three and Four.
I will look to see if there is a newer edition.
But Edition 4 came out in 2010
Edition 3 came out in 1980
Lyman also put out a pamphlet book in 2011 that is called "Historic Military Calibers".
It covers loads for .30 carbine , 7.62 x39 , 7.62x54, 7.65 Argie , .303 Brit and 8mm Mauser.
They don't cover the .30-06 or .308.
I have that booklet also.
"Load Books " also puts out a pamphlet on the 7.62x54 ( as well as other calibers ), but it only has limited data on Cast Loads.
But I got one anyway , along with many other caliber books.

[Mr_Sheesh]

A few of them free on archive.org:

here (https://archive.org/search.php?query=lyman%20cast%20bullet%20handbook&sin=TXT)

[MrHarmless]

Hey Fly, if you're ever around Enid, Breckenridge Arms has the best powder supply this side of Tulsa. Dong's Reloading in Tulsa has a wider selection of reloading everything in Tulsa, but tax and prices are generally higher.

[Fly]

Ya Dongs is where I normally buy. I live in the far east side of the state.

Fly

[sundog]

Fly, you might also try Jerry's (https://www.jerrysreloading.com/) in Tulsa. Nice people and a fairly good selection.

[MrHarmless]

Sweet! I hadn't heard of Jerry's. I'll have to hit that up myself!

[Fly]

Thanks I will check out Jerrys also, next time I go to Tulsa.

Fly