Anyone here build their muzzleloader from scratch?

[Bigbore.729]

Hey guys, so to be frank, I've never done anything like this before, but I think it's doable given time and research.

So for all my adult life I've been collecting big bore rifles. I started out with a 45-70, got bored, and then moved on down the line to 458 lott. The lott kept my interest for a while until I built my 12 gauge from hell. Now, that cartridge will absolutely never get old to me, but there is one caliber in particular that's been at the top of my "need to have" list. And that would be the mighty 4 bore.

A few years back, I inquired on having one built and was quoted $5k+ not including materials and a several year long wait. Needless to say, I'm not quite that "baller" and a few year wait makes me shiver.

I figured my best bet for getting to own my dream big bore would be to make it myself. So the other day I commenced to doing some research and priced a barrel. To my surprise, a 4 bore barrel is actually very cheap. I was thinking it would cost over $1k, but actually I can get one for around $600.

While I'm not a machinist, I have access to a machine shop (and machinists) that can help drill and tap items with a mill. If there is something complicated (like installing the breach) I can just send it to a Smith for that process. I figured the hardest part (and would take the most time) would be making and inleting a stock from scratch. I've done some small inleting tasks before, it's a pain but doable if care and patience is applied. In my mind, I would guess getting the lock and trigger put in place correctly will be the hardest task at hand.

I've ordered two books to help me get some knowledge on the subject which are "The Art Of Building The Pennsylvania Longrifle" and "The Gunsmith of Grenville County: Building the American Longrifle". People seem to reccomend them a lot.

So I guess my question is, to those that have built their own, what was the hardest process for you? What are some tips that can make the process a little less intimidating for a novice? General tips will also be very much welcomed as well.

Like I said, I've never done anything this in depth before, but I am a good fabricator, I learn fast, and I know when to ask for help. I think it's entirely possible for me to do this, though it will be challenging. Thanks for any advice given!

[Winger Ed.]

You'll do well.
The pros that built them 300 years ago didn't have a fraction of the tools we have access to now.

I've done a couple projects where I could do almost everything, but one or two things.
Like installing a Rem 700 barrel- for a one time thing, I didn't want to get the tools and teach myself how to do it.
So I had a gunsmith install and chamber it. It cost less than the tools, was done right the first time, and was several weeks faster.


Your biggest challenge might be building a stock from a fence post rather than something semi shaped and inletted.
If you do either one, I'd get a couple basic tools from Brownell's or somewhere that are made just for doing stock work.

[Eddie2002]

I built a matching set of smooth bore .50 caliber pistols from a real old, maybe 1780 rifle barrel that had the breach blown out. I used commercial flint locks and hardware. Drilled the barrels out on my big metal lathe and pretty much made the rest except for the breach plugs. It was fun but a lot of work. If you decide to go that route it's going to take a lot of time, effort and frustration. Kinda fun once everything gets together though. ;)

[kens]

I guess you need to look into muzzle loading suppliers
track of the wolf
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/
and the others that supply parts and accessories
colerain barrels
rice barrels
oregon barrels
and then all the lock makers.......

[RU shooter]

You'll most likely have to carve the wood yourself never seen a precarve stock for anything much bigger than about a 1.25" dia barrel at the breach . Not exactly sure how big a 4 bore is but assuming the barrel dia at breach will be substantial

[bosterr]

Look into Jim Kibler kits. I think the price compares favorably in price to Track of the Wolf and other suppliers and a lot less work since they use CNC machinery to make the stock. A lot less chance of making a mess of it.

Sorry... I missed the OP's looking for 4 bore.

[Bigbore.729]

You'll do well.
The pros that built them 300 years ago didn't have a fraction of the tools we have access to now.

I've done a couple projects where I could do almost everything, but one or two things.
Like installing a Rem 700 barrel- for a one time thing, I didn't want to get the tools and teach myself how to do it.
So I had a gunsmith install and chamber it. It cost less than the tools, was done right the first time, and was several weeks faster.


Your biggest challenge might be building a stock from a fence post rather than something semi shaped and inletted.
If you do either one, I'd get a couple basic tools from Brownell's or somewhere that are made just for doing stock work.

Yeah I figured the biggest hurdle would be carving a huge chunk of wood. Finding a giant piece of dried wood that can handle the abuse a 4 bore throws will be challenging. Will have to be a tight grained wood. Not gonna be really pretty.

[Bigbore.729]

You'll most likely have to carve the wood yourself never seen a precarve stock for anything much bigger than about a 1.25" dia barrel at the breach . Not exactly sure how big a 4 bore is but assuming the barrel dia at breach will be substantial

Yep, again, I think the wood carving will be absolutely the worst part.

[Bigbore.729]

Look into Jim Kibler kits. I think the price compares favorably in price to Track of the Wolf and other suppliers and a lot less work since they use CNC machinery to make the stock. A lot less chance of making a mess of it.

Sorry... I missed the OP's looking for 4 bore.

Unless they have a 4 bore kit I doubt they have anything I can use other than locks and hardware.

[Winger Ed.]

Finding a giant piece of dried wood that can handle the abuse a 4 bore throws will be challenging. Will have to be a tight grained wood. Not gonna be really pretty.

That's part of the challenge and reward of doing it.

I met a guy once that made his own stocks.
He would seek out old gate or corner posts on farms.

Hey, check out the thread about the guy with a walnut tree, you might make a deal:kidding:

[kens]

I got a few big pieces of black walnut
it is in big rough blanks

[Bigbore.729]

That's part of the challenge and reward of doing it.

I met a guy once that made his own stocks.
He would seek out old gate or corner posts on farms.

Hey, check out the thread about the guy with a walnut tree, you might make a deal:kidding:

True. Hard work that kicks your butt and tests you is always rewarding.


I got a few big pieces of black walnut
it is in big rough blanks

It will be some time before I start looking for wood. I want to read my books front to back first and get the barrel work done first.

[Winger Ed.]

When I was building a new carriage for a Civil War era replica cannon, I dug around on the net and found
a lumber place or mill in the Carolinas that sold cut to order hardwood planks & such probably to custom furniture makers.

They have all the different kinds of wood you'd want, and the little brown truck will bring it to ya.
It wasn't cheap, but the prices were realistic for what they had.

If you want to go all out-- there's a fella up around the Great Lakes that recovers old sunken logs
from ones that sank when they rafted them down from the forests a couple hundred years ago.
He's set up to properly dry them out and mill them.

I've seen pictures of stocks made from it on muzzle loaders that will make ya wet your pants.

[LAGS]

Back when I was 16 years old , I made a matchlock Hand Cannon from a Baseball Bat and a section of 3/4" ID 1/4" was Chrome Molly pipe.
It was fun to shoot.
But I watched my grandfather a few years before build all his Muzzle loaders from Scratch.
That included the barrel ,lock and stock.

[Bigbore.729]

From my experience with inleting, the barrel itself will be the easy part to get inlet. Getting the lock and trigger to all line up correctly and fit snug will be challenging. Will likely solder a recoil lug (or two) to the barrel and glass bed everything in to help save the wood from recoil. Mainly concerned about the wrist. Will also likely epoxy a bolt in the wrist for extra strength. Old gunsmithing trick for safari guns

[RU shooter]

From my experience with inleting, the barrel itself will be the easy part to get inlet. Getting the lock and trigger to all line up correctly and fit snug will be challenging. Will likely solder a recoil lug (or two) to the barrel and glass bed everything in to help save the wood from recoil. Mainly concerned about the wrist. Will also likely epoxy a bolt in the wrist for extra strength. Old gunsmithing trick for safari guns
Actually for me anyways inletting the lock and other parts aren't that difficult if you can inlet a barrel you can do the others no problem . Limiting factor for me is trying to make a stock blank (big long rectangle) look like a rifle . One of the reasons I use a precarved stock with only the barrel inlet and ram rod hole drilled . I would see if I could find some pictures of original large bore guns and see how big a stock blank you would need

[waksupi]

I'm not sure how many I've done over the years. I'm just finishing a poor boy plank build. Probably my last build, as time on my feet in the shop is too hard on me now.
For a 4 bore, I would ask the maker to go ahead and breech it for you.
For a massive gun like a 4 bore, you won't find a pre-shaped and inlet stock. To me the trickiest part is to get the ramrod drilled properly. Leave a bunch of wood on the bottom of the blank, drill the hole, then drill a small inspection hole and use a piece of wire
for a depth gauge through the barrel channel to locate the bottom of the ramrod hole. That will help avoid cutting through the channel when final shaping. Everything else is fairly simple if you take your time.

[Bigbore.729]

Actually for me anyways inletting the lock and other parts aren't that difficult if you can inlet a barrel you can do the others no problem . Limiting factor for me is trying to make a stock blank (big long rectangle) look like a rifle . One of the reasons I use a precarved stock with only the barrel inlet and ram rod hole drilled . I would see if I could find some pictures of original large bore guns and see how big a stock blank you would need

Hey thanks. I didn't even think of the ramrod hole. That does sound like a daunting task. Especially since the ramrod will need to be around 3/4" in diameter. Getting brass fittings for the rod might be an issue too.

[Bigbore.729]

I'm not sure how many I've done over the years. I'm just finishing a poor boy plank build. Probably my last build, as time on my feet in the shop is too hard on me now.
For a 4 bore, I would ask the maker to go ahead and breech it for you.
For a massive gun like a 4 bore, you won't find a pre-shaped and inlet stock. To me the trickiest part is to get the ramrod drilled properly. Leave a bunch of wood on the bottom of the blank, drill the hole, then drill a small inspection hole and use a piece of wire
for a depth gauge through the barrel channel to locate the bottom of the ramrod hole. That will help avoid cutting through the channel when final shaping. Everything else is fairly simple if you take your time.

Getting the barrel breached by the barrel maker is likely not an option. The barrel I found is from Krieger Barrels. Here is the specs on the barrel

255890

And thanks for the tip for the ramrod hole! That's clever

[waksupi]

Getting the barrel breached by the barrel maker is likely not an option. The barrel I found is from Krieger Barrels. Here is the specs on the barrel

255890

And thanks for the tip for the ramrod hole! That's clever

Try contacting Ed Rayl, W.E. Rayl, Box 91, Gassaway, W.V. 26624 . Ph 304-364-8269. Do some Googling, I think there are other suppliers for big bore barrels. I think there is a place in Oregon. You might also try Xcaliber barrels, Kalispell, Mt.

You wouldn't want or need that large of a ramrod. It would interfere with inletting a lock. The guys around here with 4 bores are using a standard 3/8" I think.

You could also go to the American Longrifles forum and ask. The gun building section is also a good place to learn.

[Bigbore.729]

Thanks! I'll look them up and join that forum.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
About 7 years back decided it was time to build a matchlock. Put near 3 months into getting it done but was a lot of fun.

255900255901255902255903

Came up with these photos... If you do a search in "advanced search" more info is there.
Mike in LLama Land

[RU shooter]

Now That is really cool Mike . An unusual gun for sure

[rfd]

i would easily take on the job of a muzzy scratch build again, but at my age i have no desire to pour all that time and energy required to just make a good, basic flintlock. for younger folks of such build inclination, who have both the time and energy to get into a scratch build, it's a great endeavour and they will learn heaps and have a gun they can truly call their own. these dayze, i'd go with a "kit gun" such as a kibler or tvm, because the real major work of the preliminary stock layout, the barrel channel and ramrod hole, are done. there still will be a heap of work to do but now we're talking a few weeks max and not at least a few months.

[Jkrem]

Hello,
I’m building a Dickert style flintlock rifle in .45 caliber. Here are the items I decided I wasn’t up to doing, and I have a gunsmith assisting me with them. Note they are the ones I deemed most critical to safe function. I plan to complete the rest of the rifle after this is all done.

1. Remove original plug and replace it with a plug proper for my TOW Dickert stock. The back story here is that it is a 1970s Douglas barrel from a rifle that was never completed. The first owner butchered the tang for some reason known only to them.
2. Drill properly located lock screw. The original owner for some reason drilled my beautiful Siler lock in the wrong spots. And I don’t own a drill press..
3. Drill, tap, and install touch hole and liner. Call me a wimp, but I wasn’t attempting to do it. If it is set too deep, you can’t clean the barrel.
4. Cut dovetails to pin barrel to stock. I will probably attempt the dovetail for the front and rear sights, but first owner had done a poor job on some of the pin lug dovetails than need to be sorted.
5. Drill tang bolt, and tap trigger plate. I understand the proper way to do this is with a long tap that goes all the way through the stock so the alignment is correct. Beyond my skills, and toolbox.

I received fabulous advice here on the forum. Also, there are a number of guys doing complete builds that you can watch there progress on YouTube. Prepare yourself for a journey that can’t be rushed. On the other hand, my smith told me that gunmakers have been making these for 250 years, and it’s not rocket science. Your final product will “function” as a rifle. It may or not have the artistry we would all like, as we frankly don’t have all the tools, skills and experience necessary to execute the carving, engraving, etc. I wish you luck!!

[rfd]

wonderful matchlock, mike! 255921

[rfd]

IF there is a pressing need for total DIY trad muzzy build, assess both yer smithing skills and special tooling inventory. anything lacking thereof, yer a far better candidate for a "kit gun", which can also range from a screwdriver-it-together kit (the offshore ones that can literally be completed in a day) to a "high end" kit that will basically have most of the major stock work done (but you will still need certain skills and tool inventory) with a build time that can vary wildly from under a week to a month or lots more. lotsa options, lotsa dependencies.

[Bigbore.729]

If someone knows of a 4 bore kit gun I am 100% all for that idea lol. I didn't set out "wanting to build a rifle", I set out wanting a 4 bore. A custom build was going to cost thousands with a heck of a wait time. My cheapest option to get my dream big bore is to build it. Trust me, if there was another way to get it that didn't break the bank, I would jump right on it. The only kit I know of that's a 4 bore is a blunderbuss. Not really what I'm after. I am a huge fan of the stopping rifles from the early days of big game hunting. So, if anyone knows of a kit, let me know! Is there an option for a custom built kit out there maybe?

[Bigbore.729]

So the plan is to get a 1.5" round piece of chrome molly and machine my breach and tang out of it. Does anyone know what heat treatment requirements are needed for the breach? The steel I'm looking at comes annealed.

[Mac118]

3/4" diameter ramrod? Couldn't a smaller diameter rod work with a large attachment or flared end? I've drilled ramrod channels before. Had to make a jig that held the stock place in perfect alignment with the bit, which was a single blade bit welded onto the end of a rod and went threw a couple of bushings that were movable. That type of bit doesn't wander off grain. Used my B & D hand drill clamped to the rig and moved the stock forward into it. As I approached the stanchion with the bushing, I just moved the bushing back closer to the drill. I had to back it out frequently to get the shavings out. If I can find the jig I'll take a pic and post it.