What is it with AMERC brass

[la5676]

Picked up a batch of 45 ACP brass recently. Mixed range brass, tagged as large primer, but I spotted a small primer here and there, no biggie. I am seeing some AMERC brass now, have never loaded any of this before. I have never felt the need for my shooting purposes to separate brass by makers, but while processing (I run them through my progressive (sizing, depriming, and flaring only) I notice the AMERC brass always has a bulge in it. I use an RCBC flaring die, which has the stem that leads the flared edge into the case. The stem measures .448 up to the flare. I also noticed the AMERC brass mics almost double the thickness of any of the other mixed brass. Most others measure .011, but AMERC mics .017 to almost .020.

I do have one of those universal flaring tools that would do the flare without bulging the case, but I assume the stem is opening the case mouth a bit to allow insertion of boolit. Those using the LEE powder through expander die don't have this deeper case mouth expansion feature of the RCBS.

I'll prolly sit down in my man chair and separate some night, but also feel since when I load, I have the LEE FCD in the last station, this will clear it all up, so I should just not worry about it. What do others on the board think of this brass?

I'll end up with only a handful of small primer brass, but of the 2000 mixed, there seems to be maybe 5% or less AMERC.

[turtlezx]

throw them away

[la5676]

throw them away

I'll finish processing them then. It'll be easier to see the difference than to read the bases, ya know, old eyes and all.

[DonMountain]

I have discovered some of them in purchased range brass of 45 ACP, 9mm Luger and 380. When reloaded with projectiles sized to fit the bore of my guns, these AMERC brass don't fit in the chambers. Unless you have really loose chambers in your guns, they don't fit as reloads. I always pick them out and throw them away before doing anything to my brass.

[ReloaderFred]

Recycle any A-Merc brass you come across. It's old stuff, since the company went out of business awhile back, thankfully. If there is an anomaly that can possibly be caused in brass, American Ammunition (A-Merc) somehow managed to produce it.

I had an acquaintance who insisted he was going to reload A-Merc .45 acp brass, and he ended up gluing the primers in, since they fell out of the oversized primer pockets. They fired (for him), and he did it to just prove a point.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Many years ago, AMERC developed a reputation for very poor quality and was shut down. I had fired some of their .223, 4"-5" groups at 100 Yards in rifles that did 1.5" with FC 76 military. Bullets were undersize - .222. I believe Bushmaster would not honor warranty if AMERC was fired in their rifles and said so.

[gpidaho]

AMERC case here just get tossed in the recycle bucket along with worn out brass, they are junk. Thankfully, as stated above, they are out of business. Gp

[wv109323]

Many people that reload .45acp and 9mm do so on progressive presses. Having a stoppage is time consuming to correct. If you can determine a probable cause beforehand you do. Many have found problems with A-merc and thus scrap it to eliminate problems.

[la5676]

Thankfully, so far, I'm only looking at maybe 50 of the 2000 that were Amerc or Win NT. While was was sizing/de-priming, I played around a bit. Stuck the other turret in, and with no primer/powder, just seated some 230's in the cases for ****s and giggles. After seating and running through the LEE FGC station (there was very little friction I felt in the FCD die), I dropped then in my case guage, they all dropped in just fine. Is the 452 sized boolit getting swaged down even more in these thicker cases. I'm culling them, and thanks for the head's up guys. I learnt something. But, why would one have trouble chambering these, if they fit in a case guage? I run every thing through case guage before it gets boxed. Prevents issues at the range.

[sukivel]

throw them away

Yep, we all found them the same way. Straight to the recycling bin...


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[jonp]

Whole lot of AMERC threads online and not many good. I'd cull and toss them. The ones I've ran across were not anything I'd want to mess with.

[ReloaderFred]

But, why would one have trouble chambering these, if they fit in a case guage? I run every thing through case guage before it gets boxed. Prevents issues at the range.

Because you're not shooting them through the case gauge. They have to fit the chamber in order to be fired, so that's what you should be checking them in.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[la5676]

Because you're not shooting them through the case gauge. They have to fit the chamber in order to be fired, so that's what you should be checking them in.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Most (all) case guages are manufactured to SAAMI minimums, in order to fit about any firearm. I don't seem to have tight chambers on anything. I have checked my guages against my chambers, when a few rounds didn't slide into the guage easily, they still did fit my chamber, and besides, the case guage is a hell of a lot handier to mess with than the barrel and a bowl full of loaded rounds, for me anyway.

[Dimner]

I toss them when I find them in 223/556. Awful cases.

[David2011]

Don’t throw them away. Just sell them as scrap.

[kevin c]

I've found A-Merc to be thicker than any other pistol brass by a wide margin, to the point that any coated boolit over jacketed diameter gets shaved or sized down in the case.

It's useless for my needs so it's equated with split, crushed, dented or corroded cases and treated as scrap brass.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I cull Amerc brass and recycle them.
The first time I discovered them, I've found a high percentage give me problems during all the steps of reloading.

[ReloaderFred]

Most (all) case guages are manufactured to SAAMI minimums, in order to fit about any firearm. I don't seem to have tight chambers on anything. I have checked my guages against my chambers, when a few rounds didn't slide into the guage easily, they still did fit my chamber, and besides, the case guage is a hell of a lot handier to mess with than the barrel and a bowl full of loaded rounds, for me anyway.

I think you're going to find that a lot of case gauges are made to SAAMI Maximum, or somewhere in between. The point is, cartridges aren't fired in gauges, they're fired in chambers, so they must fit the chamber they're going to be fired in. A gauge simply tells you whether or not that individual cartridge fits in the gauge, but doesn't tell you if it's going to fit in the chamber of your firearm. I've seen lots of cartridges that fit gauges, but wouldn't chamber and fire. They're two different measuring devices.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[JimB..]

I’ve always scrapped them based on internet lore, really just not worth the tome. Great to hear that they are gone.

[LUBEDUDE]

I discovered Amerc 15-17 years ago when I bought a case of 45acp from Sportsmans Guide. After a few bent decapping pins I have since trashed every piece of Amerc I see.

[375supermag]

Hi...
I can only echo what others have posted.
My experience mirrors theirs.
Amerc brass is junk.
Any I find goes in the recycle bin.

[la5676]

Thanks guys,

I sat in my manchair last night with Frankford and primed close to 1500. I missed a few Win NTs (small primer)when I was culling for the A-Merc, looks like I'm not multi-tasking, but ran across a small primer case I had never seen before. I had thought the only small primered cases were Win NT, but I have one that is a Federal case.

[la5676]

I discovered Amerc 15-17 years ago when I bought a case of 45acp from Sportsmans Guide. After a few bent decapping pins I have since trashed every piece of Amerc I see.

I went ahead and sent them through the decapping stage without a hitch, but I did notice that a majority of them had very off center flash holes. QC at it's best.:drinks:

[fguffey]

Yep, we all found them the same way. Straight to the recycling bin...

Not to be different, I found cases with small primers while measuring flash holes, the flash hole gage did not touch the case.

F. Guffey

[la5676]

Not to be different, I found cases with small primers while measuring flash holes, the flash hole gage did not touch the case.

F. Guffey

???

Gonna need to elaborate the significance of this statement. For me anyway.

[fguffey]

???

Gonna need to elaborate the significance of this statement. For me anyway.

I have a flash hole gage, the flash hole in cases with small primers are large, my flash hole gage will fall straight through without touching the case.

Some use the primer fit to determine case head expansion, a few understand if the case heat gets hammered the case head diameter increases; same of flash holes, if the case head gets hammered with heavy loads the flash hole will increase in diameter.

No one measures case head thickness from the cup above the web to the case head but when the case head gets hit with a heavy load the case head thickness gets thinner. When my case heads get thinner the diameter of the case head increases.

All of my shell holders are not alike; my favorite shell holder is the RCBS shell holder because they are loose, most of my RCBS shell holders have .011" loose fit between the rim of the case and shell holder. RCBS shell holders are my favorite because they fit like a hand-me-down shirt, they only fit where they touch.

I have another group of shell holders, that fit with no slack. It means nothing to most but if I am using the tight fitting shell holders when I come across a case that will not fit the shell holder I suspect the case head has been hit with a heavy load if I measured before and again after.

F. Guffey

[la5676]

I think you're going to find that a lot of case gauges are made to SAAMI Maximum, or somewhere in between. The point is, cartridges aren't fired in gauges, they're fired in chambers, so they must fit the chamber they're going to be fired in. A gauge simply tells you whether or not that individual cartridge fits in the gauge, but doesn't tell you if it's going to fit in the chamber of your firearm. I've seen lots of cartridges that fit gauges, but wouldn't chamber and fire. They're two different measuring devices.

Hope this helps.

Fred

You are right, I said that wrong. They are machined to max SAAMI specs so as to fit any properly machined chamber. Were I reloading for just one single pistol, the plunk test would be the thing to do. I won't say who all I load for, but it's real close family and friends that like to shoot with me, and are more limited on funds than I seem to be. By using my Lyman case guage, I am pretty much assured they will chamber in anything.

[nun2kute]

THEY ARE NOT JUNK !!! They are perfect candidate to drrop a hunk of lead into and swage into 452 or larger bullets.

We do have a swaging section here.

[Wild Bill 7]

Scrap brass bucket is too good for that brass. The liberals must have conspired to have that brass made to cause us some misery. LOL. I hate that brass also.

[lightman]

Like most of the above posters, I consider Amerc brass to be junk. Its a well earned reputation! I don't swage bullets so whatever I find goes in the scrap bucket.

[fguffey]

I think you're going to find that a lot of case gauges are made to SAAMI Maximum, or somewhere in between. The point is, cartridges aren't fired in gauges, they're fired in chambers, so they must fit the chamber they're going to be fired in.

The Wilson case gage is designed to measure a fired case and a sized case. It is up to the reloader to determine the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head. Many reloaders treat the case gage as a drop in gage. The instructions suggest the reloader use a straight edge. I agree but suggest the reloader take it one step further; I suggest the reloader use a feeler gage set. From the beginning the case gage was designed as a datum based tool. The difference between my datums and the Wilson case gage is the radius; Wilson has used a radius on their datums since the late 30's.

F. Guffey

[Engineer1911]

AMERC = Junk

AMERC ≤ Junk

AMERC brass does not keep the primer in the primer pocket when the bullet is seated.

[mozeppa]

AMERC = Junk

AMERC ≤ Junk

AMERC brass does not keep the primer in the primer pocket when the bullet is seated.
many times the flash hole is nowhere near the center of the primer pocket.

[rondog]

Is AMERC and A-USA the same? Haven't seen AMERC much, but do run across A-USA now and then.....

[ReloaderFred]

Is AMERC and A-USA the same? Haven't seen AMERC much, but do run across A-USA now and then.....

No, they're completely different companies. A-Merc is out of business, and has been for awhile.

A-USA is Armscor ammunition which is made in their plant here in the U.S. Armscor is base in the Philippines, but established a plant here a few years ago, since they've been doing so much business in this country.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[rondog]

Ah, thank you sir! Forgot about Armscor......

[JimB..]

Thanks guys,

I sat in my manchair last night with Frankford and primed close to 1500. I missed a few Win NTs (small primer)when I was culling for the A-Merc, looks like I'm not multi-tasking, but ran across a small primer case I had never seen before. I had thought the only small primered cases were Win NT, but I have one that is a Federal case.
I’ve seen SPP 45acp brass with Win NT, Fed and Speer headstamps that I recall. There are a bunch of headstamps that I routinely toss in the scrap bucket, no idea if they are converting.

[BrutalAB]

A lot of hate for amerc brass. Leads me to believe it is well deserved. Especially considering the only redeeming opinion is to turn it into a jacketed boolit.

Thoroughly enjoyed the gluing primers in anecdote.

[BrutalAB]

Just found my first a merc case i believe. Wouldnt even fit into the shell plate on my pro 1000.
38 special.
Its in the recycling bucket now.

[bullet maker 57]

I agree with all the above. In the scrap bucket.

[mdi]

For quite a while Amerc. has been getting negative reports on nearly every reloading forum I've visited. Mostly inferior brass alloy, small and off center flash holes and varying thickness. Haven't run across any here (So. Oregon).

Post #11 and #12 are excellent, print and put in your reloading manual...

[ioon44]

Yes, In the scrap bucket.

[kerplode]

This crap was of barely sufficient quality for the first firing. Any I find goes straight to scrap. At least it seems to be turning up less often than in the past.

[Frosty Boolit]

The exact same issues that make amerc garbage are also found in maxxtech brass. Reloaders beware. At least they has been my experience with 9mm.