S&W Scandium 340PD FAILURE

[Outpost75]

The 340PD is a .357 J-frame. During qual 5 rds of 38 +P 135 gr HP Gold Dot SB. Chunk that came off hit the instructor running the course (no injury). Low round count, just carried a lot in an ankle rig. It continued to run after the chunk came off (round 2 or 3 of 5) as the shooter did not notice it.

255706255707

Apparent cracking initiated by notch sensitivity. Failure crack most likely originated from a tool mark left over from broaching the cylinder recess in the frame. S&W would be well advised to increase the filet radius as well as improving surface finish in the filet and/or shot peening. Looking at the brown stain adjacent fracture looks familiar, this appears to have been working a while and picked this time to let go.

Cop armorer friend in SoCal had to send 2 or 3 standard aluminum J frames (642/442) back to S&W that cracked the frame at 6 O’Clock below the forcing cone. S&W said that happens sometimes from hoop stress transferred through the aluminum when the machine screws on the barrel or when they thread the frame for the barrel. They replaced the entire gun each time.

The so-called S&W "lifetime warranty" has limitations. Same retired LE armorer bought himself a retirement-gift all steel 640 and the “hammer stud” broke off flush with the frame with a few hundred rounds on board. From the gitgo dry firing it did not feel quite right, but was still working as the side plate kind of holds the stud (pin) in place...When he popped off the side plate he saw the internal parts slightly shifted...well that’s not normal.

For a number of reasons I won’t get into S&W needed to replace the frame (they can’t repair aluminum frames so those are replaced when this happens) they sent him a bill for $145 even though they said it had nothing to do with anything he had done. I had to get the local S&W LE rep involved and even he could not explain why this fell outside the normal “lifetime” warranty. Somehow he eventually made the bill go away. Those without a badge or retired credential probably won't be as lucky.

255708

A broken hammer stud is becoming more common with the shift to MIM. Especially on the N frames. Machinist buddy fixes a lot of them because guys don’t want to wait 30-60 days for S&W “service”. As for screwing on barrels, they sure torque'em on tight. Forcing cone constriction has been a problem with the late production guns I’ve inspected. It's usually $100 gunsmith fix to set back and refit, but shouldn’t be necessary if they fitted correctly just cut a UNF-Class 2A thread, not a 3A, then just screw it in correctly and pin it, Like they did in the old days. One of many reasons I prefer the older revolvers. That stud as now manufactured is now a MIM part press fit into a slightly raised collar instead of being screwed into the frame. The repair is to drill it out and then tap thread the frame and install a new stud the old fashioned way.

Reinforces my gut instinct that "an old gun that works is worth more than a new gun that doesn't."
None of my older (1970s) S&W Model 12 Airweight M&P .38 Specials have failed firing standard pressure (NOT +P!) loads.

[junkbug]

Wow. That is disheartening. Glad nobody was injured.

Hope my almost new Taurus 856 UL holds up a little better. It cost less, but I have no illusions about any warranty service. I would have expected much more integrity from Smith and Wesson. But I guess the buyer now pays for any short cut flaws these day

I am still on the hunt for vintage iron, though.

[Outpost75]

I like your term "Vintage Iron"

By golly I will use that!

"An old gun that works is worth more than a new gun that doesn't."

[BK7saum]

I have one of those. They replaced the frame once due to the cylinder sliding past the frame lug when ejecting cases. it was that way from the git-go. I have fired a couple of 158 JHP magnums just to see. The rest of the rounds fired have been 38 target and 38+p 125 gold dots. I'll definitely keep an eye on it.

Brad

[Outpost75]

I have one of those. They replaced the frame once due to the cylinder sliding past the frame lug when ejecting cases. it was that way from the git-go. I have fired a couple of 158 JHP magnums just to see. The rest of the rounds fired have been 38 target and 38+p 125 gold dots. I'll definitely keep an eye on it.

Brad

Was your frame lug forged integral with the Scantium frame or was it a steel one threaded into the frame?

[Thumbcocker]

A little JB weld and it will be good as new.

[Hickok]

Looks like Chinese Mystery Metal.:groner:

[meistermash]

Been following the hammer studd issue on a few other forums.
It's a shame s&w chooses to go the route they do.
I have more than a few older s&w revolvers.
They seem destined to piss off the gun community and ruin their reputation.

[BK7saum]

Was your frame lug forged integral with the Scantium frame or was it a steel one threaded into the frame?

I think it was forged. They sent me a frame with different serial number, it was not a repair of the original frame.

[BK7saum]

They also corrected a canted barrel cylinder gap at the same time. The gap was much closer smaller at the top than the bottom.

[onelight]

They also corrected a canted barrel cylinder gap at the same time. The gap was much closer smaller at the top than the bottom.
Nice to hear they fixed you up.
Sad situation .

[curioushooter]

Sort of makes me not want to "upgrade" my 442, which to date has worked great with Federal HSTs.

[historicfirearms]

Sad to hear of these problems. I don't follow the S&W forums much, are these problems common? I do know that since S&W bought out Thompson Center that quality has dropped.

[stubshaft]

My 325PD has had thousands of rounds thru it and still looks new and locks up tight. However one of my 642's has been back to the factory for a barrel cant issue that was covered under warranty.

[Shawlerbrook]

Read a bit about problems with the scandium frames, especially with a diet of +P ammo. Personally, I would only use +P in steel frame guns, but that’s my choice.

[35remington]

Even worse....this happened to a 357 shooting 38s.

[Idaho45guy]

Seems I am reading about more issues with S&W revolvers than any other gun on the internet. Did Remington buy them out or something??

[country gent]

My 357 mag S&W is a 340 scandium titanium gun. It has a warning on the barrel that says only bullets over xxx weight ( I dont remember the exact weight). I wonder if lighter bullets cause a shock effect or bad harmonics

[M-Tecs]

It's no less than 120 grains and it's for "Bullet Pull". In light weight revolvers the inertia of discharge with the accompaning high speed recoil makes the projectile start creeping from the casing. This can eventually have the bullet projecting from the face of the cylinder and locking up the gun.

[Outpost75]

It's no less than 120 grains and it's for "Bullet Pull". In light weight revolvers the inertia of discharge with the accompaning high speed recoil makes the projectile start creeping from the casing. This can eventually have the bullet projecting from the face of the cylinder and locking up the gun.

That's why police duty loads are sealed for water and oilproofing with Black Lucas, which also increases bullet pull.

Important safety tip - pull down one of your factory rounds.

If you see no black mouth varnish you should buy something different next time.

[M-Tecs]

That's why police duty loads are sealed for water and oilproofing with Black Lucas, which also increases bullet pull.

Important safety tip - pull down one of your factory rounds.

If you see no black mouth varnish you should buy something different next time.

Excellent point. I hadn't thought about that.

[Outpost75]

Sad to hear of these problems. I don't follow the S&W forums much, are these problems common? I do know that since S&W bought out Thompson Center that quality has dropped.

You don't hear much about them on Internet forums. But if you attend LE instructor seminars they do occur occasionally, though I would not say frequently. If you re-read the original post the reported experience paints a clear enough picture for me to look at other options before I would buy a new S&W today. But I still have a healthy skpeticism from experiencing outright lies and attempted fraud by their corporate reps during during contract proceedings of the 1980s in which certain parties then in their corporate came very close to going to jail. I would grade their corporate dishonesty on a par with VW and their diesel vehicle claims and will leave it there.

[Speedo66]

This is a fine time to be buying the S&W police turn in K frames from places like AIM Surplus. Better quality for half the price, even better with no MIM parts, external locks, or two piece barrels, and with a hammer mounted firing pin.

I bought a stainless 65, no worry about finish, and it's an excellent shooter. Who knows how much longer they'll be around?

[str8wal]

S&W needed to replace the frame (they can’t repair aluminum frames so those are replaced when this happens) they sent him a bill for $145 even though they said it had nothing to do with anything he had done.

What a load of horse-hockey. I guarantee that Ruger would not have done that.


those are replaced when this happens

When this happens? Not very assuring, I know that will never be buy one.

[curioushooter]

I do know that since S&W bought out Thompson Center that quality has dropped.

I don't know about any of T/C's other products but I have a T/C made contender, a T/C made G2, and a S&W G2. The S&W G2 I've had most problems with. Cracked stock from the factory. The rimfire pin in the hammer fell out. When I sent it back to S&W they returned the thing to me with an entirely new hammer and the trigger stunk.

[charlie b]

I wonder if the Ruger LCR would suffer the same problems under the same conditions? Or Taurus.

I really do want a light .357 but, I may have to stay with a semi-auto.

[Jtarm]

I thought the warning pertaining to light bullets was to prevent erosion of Ti cylinders. From what I’ve read on other forums, Ti is somewhat porous and does not tolerate heat terribly well.

It also seems to me heavier bullets would be more inclined to creep.

I once had a 325 PD, which I sometimes regret trading (not so much when I see stories like this about Sc frames cracking.) I could shoot five rounds of just about any 230 grain factory ball and bullet #6 would slip crimp significantly.

[curioushooter]

Another thing about Titanium is that it reacts adversely with graphite, a common additive to smokeless propellant and some cast bullet lubes (like Moly-Bee).

[9.3X62AL]

I appreciate the heads-up, Outpost. I have a nearly-new Model 642/38 +P, I will keep an eye on the stress points. So far, no issues for about 450 rounds.

[Walks]

I bought a M642 in .357 when they came out almost 25yrs ago. Fired 2 mag rds. Emptied the cylinder and reloaded with .38 W/C's. Never fired another magnum, fitted it with Packs. Sold it off to a friend who shot REM 125gr JHP's.
Cylinder cracked after 60rds. Smith replaced the Cylinder and told him to change brands of ammo. Forcing cone cracked after another 100+ rds of Fed 158gr JHP's. Smith refused to replace the Revolver, accusing him of using hot handloads.
Cost me a Good Friend.

Another Friend bought a New M19 Classic-4" bbl. I made him a Beautiful Carved Holster, a copy of the Bianchi #5 lined.
Blasted gun didn't fit, 4.25" bbl.

GEEZ ! S&W is getting to just not be worth the effort.
OLD IRON is the way to go.

[curioushooter]

I've been shooting my 2016 produced M442Pro using almost exclusively Federal 130 grain HST and Lee RNFPs ballistically matched to that load (as well as I can). I shoot around 25 round per week. It's nearing 1000 rounds with zero problems. I don't like the 642s and related matte gray finish guns because it's hard to see the sights, especially in sunlight. I shoot my wife's 638 sometimes. I blacked out the sights with Britemark which needs to be periodically restored.