Cock on Closing?

[centershot]

Years ago I had the opportunity to shoot a friends Lee-Enfield rifle. I found the cock on closing bolt to be a much handier feature than the more common cock on opening type. Fast-forward to the present; I'm enjoying reloading & shooting my Ruger American .223 Remington but lately find myself wishing it ad a cock on closing bolt. The more I think about it, I ave to wonder why most rifles today do not have this feature! It certainly makes reloading with the rifle on the shoulder much simpler! Does anyone know how/if the Ruger American can be converted to cock om closing?

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve come across a few. Most were military as I remember. I haven’t heard of any newly manufactured ones. You might get a Swedish Mauser and if you don’t like 6.5x55, have it rebarreled or use the action to have a new gun built on it, if you want to go that far.

I don’t think I can agree the cock on closing is better. Maybe it’s just what you get in the habit of using.

[Rich/WIS]

Think the idea was to reduce force needed to raise bolt and extract the fired case. When the bolt was operated compression of the firing pin spring did not add to the effort needed to open the bolt. Concern was in rapid fire the heat and fouling build up would increase force needed to extract and this way all bolt operation force would used for that purpose. The Lee-Enfield was a battle weapon, maybe the best in WWI, and had a good reputation. Often heard said that in WWI the US had the best target rifle, the Germans the best hunting rifle and the Brits the best battle rifle.

[oldhenry]

I didn't particularly like the cock on close (or the straight bolt handles on some military rifles): but, I changed my mind when I began the CMP Vintage Military event.

That straight bolt handle & cock on close feature on my Swede was a definite advantage during the "rapid" stage. I obtained one of the rare turned down bolt Swedes also & it looks very graceful, but can't keep up with my straight bolt one for speed.

[Hick]

Cock on opening got to be "standard" because, in the late 1800's, Mauser switched their design from cock on closing to cock on opening. The literally tens of millions of Mausers built for countries around the world pretty much established the "standard." But-- the British did not agree, and stayed with cock on closing. I've got both (a Mauser and an Enfield) and can't say that either is better than the other, but most modern bolt-actions are to various degrees variations on the Mauser concept-- so that's why we see so many cock on opening rifles.

[pietro]

Does anyone know how/if the Ruger American can be converted to cock om closing ?




IDK for sure, but IMO a custom trigger setup might do the trick.

If it was something that I wanted to do, I would contact Timney and/or other aftermarket trigger makers to float the idea (after all, they are the experts in the field).

.

[richhodg66]

Lots of military actioned rifles out there that cock on closing. A couple of years ago, I bought a sporter built on a '93 action which cocks on closing and I have fallen in love with it. I shot it a lot for the first year, almost every day when weather permitted and I have come to like cock on closing.

The 1917 Enfields cock on closing as do the '93 and '95 Mausers, Swedish Mausers so too. I think Arisakas do as well.

If you're set on it, look around, I have a feeling converting a Ruger American won't work or wouldn't be practical if it could be made to work.

[akajun]

Some of your better custom smiths “time” the bolts on rem 700 type actions to what they call cock on close, but it’s really nice. They are really timing the action to slightly pull the sear back when you close the bolt, trying to optimize firing pin fall. Jim Borden is a big proponent of this and touts his actions as cock on close.
Be prepared to pay big for his work though, but you’ll have a first class rifle when he’s done regardless.

[uscra112]

There's been kits to convert cock-on-closing actions to cock-on-opening for Mausers. I bought one for a '93 Mauser, but never installed it. I got used to the cock-on-closing manipulation instead. I think one incentive for changing in sporting rifles was that cock-on-closing is noisier. Hunters thinking it might spook a deer.

As posted, the cock-on-closing feature of the Lee-Enfield is said to contribute to the speed with which they can be fired.

Not being at all familiar with Ruger bolters, I can't suggest a way to convert yours, but it would entail eliminating the cam that drives the firing pin back on opening. Cock-on-closing requires a generous sear engagement for safety, which isn't too good for rifles not provided with the typical two-stage military trigger.

[GregLaROCHE]

Now that I think about it, I can remember coming across some 22s that were cock on closing.

[Walks]

I have 5 cock on closing bolt guns. Converted one 1917 to cock on opening.

Have one 98 Mauser and a bunch of commercial bolt guns. Doesn't matter either way to me.

But if you want to shoot a bolt gun FAST.
Cock on closing is the way to go.

[GregLaROCHE]

I have 5 cock on closing bolt guns. Converted one 1917 to cock on opening.

Have one 98 Mauser and a bunch of commercial bolt guns. Doesn't matter either way to me.

But if you want to shoot a bolt gun FAST.
Cock on closing is the way to go.

Why do you think cock on closing is faster? I have and shoot both types. I would agree that the right angled bolt handle could be faster than a turned down bolt handle.

[john.k]

cock on opening was considered essential in a straight bolt handle military gun to keep the bolt closed without safety catch......The German military wanted it,Mauser prefered the other way,the army got what they wanted.

[GregLaROCHE]

cock on opening was considered essential in a straight bolt handle military gun to keep the bolt closed without safety catch......The German military wanted it,Mauser prefered the other way,the army got what they wanted.
Interesting bit of firearms history. Thanks.

[Larry Gibson]

Cock on opening evolved from one major problem in the early development of cartridges; reliability of primers, especially in colder weather. Many times the primer would not fire on the first "strike" but would on the second "strike". With cock on closing actions if the bolt is operated to re-cock the striker many times the cartridge was ejected or the action was jammed. With cock on closing actions knobs of sorts were put on the rear of strikers so they could be grasped, pulled back and the striker re-cocked. That to the shooter out of firing position. Mauser solved it by cock on opening where the bolt was simply raised the closed so the shooter essentially stayed in position. The cock on opening M98s also were much faster to use in the cock on open method rather than reaching up and re-cocking the striker by hand.

Bolt handles were turned down because they were quicker to use and the shooting position less disturbed. If one thinks cock on open actions are slow to operate then one really hasn't watched bolt action shooters shoot M1903s, M70s or M700s in the old NM course, especially the M1903s in the old original timed NMC "leg" matches. In comparative matches where one also had to hit a target as in shoot for "score" the SMLEs or any other cock on closing actions prove to be no quicker. We might also consider the fact that the M98 Mauser is the most prolific battle rifle ever made; over 118 million of them.....there is probably a lot of very good reasons for that. [Note; the AK-47 and its variants may have over taken that number by now but that number of "AKs" usually includes the RPK and PK MGs]

[waksupi]

I like cock on closing.
It encourages the shooter to manipulate a Mauser action as intended, with force. Helps eliminate feeding problems.
Try to sneak a Mauser bolt forward gently, and a jam is more likely, as the bolt may not pick up the cartridge under the extractor properly to keep it in alignment to enter the throat.
I also find it faster, and can maintain a very rapid rate of fire if I so desire.

[Texas by God]

I wouldn't convert a COC to COO and I'm not sure the reverse could be done for less than the cost of the rifle. COC has a lock time of forever compared to COO but that only matters for target rifles. I enjoy my 93 Mauser just as much as my T3 Tikkas.

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[reivertom]

It was Mr. Mauser's fault. I have a sporterized M1917 that still is cock on closing and I'll keep it that way for posterity....works fine the way it is.

[Texas by God]

I have a question for the historians / professors out there. What was the first bolt action rifle of each method to be made?

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[Gewehr-Guy]

My guess is the Swiss .41 Vetterli, for the cock on opening.

[444ttd]

although i like guns that are cock on closing, its hard for one armed guy:bigsmyl2: to do. i'm am going to cock on opening kit with my 93 mauser and husky m46(i think its 95 mauser?). dayton traister has them. i have a 91 argentine mauser that is cock on closing but dayton doesn't make a kit.

http://daytraco.com/Departments/Dayton-Traister.aspx

[stubshaft]

When I was in my teens I used a SMLE Mk5 as my primary hunting rifle and found the COC to be a definite plus. I have never seen a "kit" to change a COO to COC and would surmise that a new trigger set-up and/or redesign of the bolt shroud would have to be made also.

[Hick]

The reputation that cock on closing is fast has a lot to do with the British and the Enfield. The British thought it was faster. Can't say if that is true or not-- but a British soldier had the record for some time for fast accurate fire with a bolt action rifle. In 1914 Sargent Alfred Snoxall got 36 hits in a 24 inch ring at 300 yards in 60 seconds with a standard SMLE. The British trained soldiers to do this. They called it the "Mad Minute"

[444ttd]

When I was in my teens I used a SMLE Mk5 as my primary hunting rifle and found the COC to be a definite plus. I have never seen a "kit" to change a COO to COC and would surmise that a new trigger set-up and/or redesign of the bolt shroud would have to be made also.

here ya go

http://daytraco.com/Products/Speed-Lock-Kit-M93-96-Mauser__DSL93.aspx