Hope this doesn't happen to you

[JMax]

I was reloading 38's last night when the carbide insert pulled loose from the die body. Yuck!

I just got an email from Hornaday on the die set, out of warranty so basically too bad, so sad you are on your own.

[xr650]

That just sucks!
Are you going to silver solder it back in?

[JMax]

I haven't decided yet but I have a low temp silver solder and Comet flux that I have used on stainless steel so I'll probably give it a go.

[Scrounger]

And now you know why most buy from RCBS... Care to guess what their response would have been?

[JMax]

I had an RCBS scale that the balance beam broken during a move, it was immediately repaired with no questions asked. The same has been my experience with Dillon. I currently have RCBS & Dillon dies except this soon to be replaced toad, my apologies to all toads.

[No_1]

This is one of those "I ain't never seen that before and never thought I would" things. I am curious at how the repair turns out.

Robert

[JMax]

I too was astonished when it happened. I had just finished loading what I needed for a match this weekend and was finishing what little brass that was left from the tumbler. I have decided to purchase another die set to keep loading so if any experimenters are out there let me know as we can work a real deal.

[Toobroke]

I just got an email from Hornaday on the die set, out of warranty so basically too bad, so sad you are on your own.


Out of warranty? This is straight from the Hornady website:

RELOADING TOOLS
NO-RISK, LIFETIME WARRANTY

All Hornady reloading tools and accessories are warranted against material defects and workmanship for the life of the product. Simply stated – if it breaks, we’ll repair it or replace it at no charge.

If the product is deemed defective by either workmanship or materials, the reloading tool or accessory will either be repaired, reconditioned or replaced (at Hornady Manufacturing Company’s option).

Parts, which by the nature of their function are subject to normal wear such as springs, pins, etc…and parts which have been altered, abused, or neglected, are excluded from the warranty. This warranty supersedes all other warranties for Hornady products either written or oral.


I haven't had any die problems, but they covered a broken part on one of my 14 year old Apex's a few years ago; a part I broke and told them I broke

[JMax]

What their web site states and what the sent me today by email is that I am basically on my own. I have copied and pasted their response "I'm sorry, we no longer have parts to fix the durachrome dies." so my original statement stands,
"I just got an email from Hornaday on the die set, out of warranty so basically too bad, so sad you are on your own". If you get a different meaning from their response please let them know. But they don't have parts, the die will not be repaired or replaced and the discussion is ended. Hence my disappointment with their product. I will return the email with their warranty statement that you kindly posted and see how they respond.

[hylander]

Well thats Odd and a Bummer.
I don't like their Dies to begine with, but
If Hornady will not replace the Die, I would never buy Hornady tools Again.

[JMax]

hylander,
I have that feeling now. I shoot 1000+ 38's per month and will need to get a replacement soon and it will be from another vendor.

[sundog]

JMax, if you're shooting that much, why would the purchase of a new die be so bothersome. Trash the old, get a new one and move on. btw, interesting pic.

[JMax]

Sundog,
Actually if you look at an earlier response from me I will get a new die set and that decision was made earlier in the day. I reload pistol ammo on Dillon 550's and have been very happy with their die sets for 45ACP, 9 mm, 38 Long Colt, and 40 S&W. I use RCBS for rifle dies and have had excellent results with them for calibers ranging from 223 up to 7 mag. I am really disappointed with the existing die set from the beginning due to modifications in the seating die opening for belled cases but that was easily remedied.

As a side note I'm an old Okie, grew up in OKC and went to school in Stillwater.

[1hole]

Get the carbide ring off the case. Clean it and the die body, oil free. Push it back into the die. Get some thin cynoacralate glue (Crazy Glue, Instant Glue, etc.) and let a couple of drop run between the ring and die body. Let it set and harden overnight.

You should be good to go, better than the original. And remember Hornady when you want a new die set. ???

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hornady's customer service and concern for the handloader is a total sham. What they deserve is for someone to run an ad in a prominent periodical exposing the details of this story and their devoutly apathetic concern. It should also be noted in this forum as a stickey so that all forum members are well advised. That said; the advice given by 1-Hole to repair the situation is very good. When the ring is reseated in the sizing die, the outer upper edge of the ring within the die where it contacts the die body does not bear on the case being resized. Its kid of like a small "ledge". Even if the ring when it is slid up into the die body, pushes a small amount of "crazy glue" ahead of it, it will not be in the path of the case. As long as the ring and die body are made "squeaky (oil-free clean)" a super adhesive will work. An alternate substance to consider for use might be "J B Weld which has a good reputation for work with metals. Any hardware store or NAPA carries it. It should work well. Good luck with your die repair. LLS

[river-rider]

:-DI had a carbide insert pulled loose from the die body on a Dillion SQ Deal die. Called Dillion and they had a replacement die in the mail the day I called. No payment requested. Good people (Dillion):-D

[azrednek]

[QUOTE=JMax;428647] "I'm sorry, we no longer have parts to fix the durachrome dies." QUOTE]

Is the die the old Durochrome that was made by Pacific??

[Pavogrande]

Super glue or loctite --- Too much danger of getting epoxy - jb weld -- into the die body and the difficulty of removing the excess squeeze out. -- my ha-penny

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Re insert the carbide ring into the die body. If there is a slight radius on the edge of the carbide ring, or the steel die body extends past the ring a bit, I would try to carefully peen the die body over to hold the ring, much like crimping a case into a bullet groove. I believe this is how they're assembled in the factory. Any tapping of the bottom edge of the die body will tend to lock the ring in.
Morgan

[Bret4207]

I'd call and talk to someone. If they don't "have parts" (silver solder) to fix the die then they should give you a new one. Keep going up the ladder.

[montana_charlie]

You can 'glue' it back in.
Clean the die interior, and the carbide exterior...then use Loctite 680 to glue it back in.
You can probably use any good degreaser for the cleaning, but Loctite sells one, too.

680 adds 4000 psi of holding power.
CM

[coalgeo]

I had a Pacific case trimmer. I went to Hornady a couple of years after they purchased Pacific and tried to get parts. They said - sorry.
Bunches and bunches of new green, orange and yellow containers - with tools, dies, and bullets - have crossed the reloading bench since that day and none of it had the "Hornaday" name on it.

[1hole]

""J B Weld which has a good reputation for work with metals."

It's a great epoxy for sure but it needs a little space to fill into to work well, the carbide ring is likely too tight for that. Crazy Glue, most varities anyway, is quite thin and can wick its way into the die. It will hold such things unbeliveably well! You could probably use the press (and a proper size wrench socket on the ram) to gently push it in as far as possible first, ideally flush or just below flush with the die mouth.

Don't think I'd try to peen it in place tho. Carbide is quite brittle and I fear you are more likely to break the ring than to secure it; use the glue.

[mikenbarb]

Sweat a little Silfos solder in it and it will be fine. Just make sure its aligned proper when you do it.

[JMax]

The die set box had Hornady printed on it so as far as I am concerned it's theirs. A new set from Dillon will be ordered in the AM and I am done with them.

[beagle]

Had a .45 ACP TC die do that once. After beating my head against the wall and trying to repair it, I bought a new one....and a spare.

My recommendation to you./beagle

[JMax]

Here we are 11 days since my original post and guess what happened. I got a response to my last email to them including their warranty quote provided by Toobroke expressing my disappointment in their warranty and service. It was sorry and please send the broken die to us and we will take care of it. The unfortunate or fortunate thing for me is that I just received my new die set from Dillon, Oh well.

[No_1]

Send it back for the replacement. Having 2 die sets on hand for the same cartridge is never a bad thing. If you would have had 2 on hand when this happened you prodduction would not have stopped dead in the water.

Robert



Here we are 11 days since my original post and guess what happened. I got a response to my last email to them including their warranty quote provided by Toobroke expressing my disappointment in their warranty and service. It was sorry and please send the broken die to us and we will take care of it. The unfortunate or fortunate thing for me is that I just received my new die set from Dillon, Oh well.

[Tom-n8ies]

I really like my older durachrome dies, glad they are going to take care of you. In the future make sure you are not banging the ram into the carbide insert too hard, that may have been the cause of your failure.

I had a set of carbide lee dies that I purchased at a gun show and it looked like the carbide ring was slightly tipped in the die causing sized cases to have a ridge toward the bottom.

I sent it back to lee with a couple cases and they replaced it no charge.

Most manufactures will take care of problems.

tom

[JMax]

The die when it is returned will be used as a backup and gather dust. Over the years I like most re-loaders have had an issue with numerous vendors products. This is the first in my experience where it took so long to resolve. I have not used Lee products but a friend does and swears by them and they have provided him with excellent service as had CH, Dillon and RCBS for me.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I'm surprised you had a problem with them. Several years ago, I purchased a used old-style ProJector, on evilbay, and was having a problem with the powder measure, which I'd changed over from ram, to case operated. I'm loading .38-40's, which, like .44-40's, have notoriously thin case mouths. The pressure needed to operate the converted Hornady measure, was collapsing many cases. We never were able to solve the problem, but they sent me free springs and die parts in an effort to help. I finally wound up adapting a Dillon measure, which requires less pressure to operate. This doesn't take away from the fact that they gave me excellent service, and free parts, for an old, out of date press, which I'd bought used. I never e-mailed them, always speaking to someone on the phone, maybe that's the difference.
Morgan

[fourarmed]

I have always found that the best way to deal with the loading tool/gun companies is by telephone. Email seems to be very iffy with some of them. I have always gotten top service over the phone. Having said that, I have found lately that many of them have been taken over by the "Press one for..." robots.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I've used Hornady a few times for service on die parts and things I've broke or have worn out. In each instance, I called their 800 number off their website. In each instance, I received free replacement parts, shipped to me at their cost, even when it was my fault or the parts simply wore out due to use (springs). I think if you had called them instead of emailing and got through to the technical support guys, your results and speed of service would have been much different.

I don't put much stock into email results when requesting service. Who knows who you're communicating with. Better to call and speak to a live person with a name.

BTW, I did notice you didn't give the name of the individual at Hornady you received a response from. Did the email have a name? IF so, then call Hornady and complain, so they can be set straight.

Regards,

Dave

[fatnhappy]

I got the same response to a die problem from hornady years ago. I sent a letter to Hornady that needed to be written on asbestos.
I received a replacement die a week later. I like their dies and haven't had any issues before or since but it galls me I had to go to extremes to have a reloading company stand behind their warranty.

[JMax]

All emails have come from "sales" with no names.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

All emails have come from "sales" with no names.

And therein may be the problem. All the service I've gotten from Hornady was from communicating with their service department, not sales. Didn't require anything extreme from me, just a phone call to the service department.

Dave

[anachronism]

Hornady's idea of product life is simple. If they still make the exact product exactly the same, it seems to be covered. If they've made any changes in the product, including paint color, your product has exceeded it's service life & is no longer under warranty. When I first started loading, I started with LEE. 3 months later, when everything started breaking, I replaced the broken stuff with Hornady, which lasted several years. I had a few warranty claims denied, including a 007 press that flat wore-out, the switched again. I do all my business exclusively with Redding, Dillon, & RCBS. I'm pretty vocal about my displeasure with LEE & Hornady because I wish someone would have told me about their issues before I bought the original products.

[crashdummy]

I bought a set of Lyman 9MM dies from one of the on line auctions, so God only knows how old they were, or their history. on the 3rd case the carbide insert in the sizing die came out.
I e mailed Lyman for an estimate of repairs, they said send it in, it was repaired and returned at no charge. GREAT customer service !

[readr1]

I had a set of Lyman .38\.357 dies jump off the shelf into my hands at the Bargain Cave in Cabella's that had this exact same problem. I ended up seating the carbide ring as far into he die as it would go, then taking a short flat screwdriver and peening 3 spots around the ring. I have loaded ~200 rounds with no problems or issues. YMMV

[Hardcast416taylor]

I had the same problem with my Lyman .38/357 mag sizer die. I called them, they said send the die back. About a week later I got a new die and the case I sent with the ring stuck on it. Total cost was ZERO! The dies were about 5 yrs. old. :-D Robert

[JMax]

I received the replacement die yesterday, nearly a month later after my first contact. It appears to be well made but late.

[billsr]

I had an RCBS carbide die do the same thing many, many years ago. I took red Loctite and loctited the carbide ring back into the die, and to this day it is still holding and working just fine.

[flutedchamber]

Like billsr, I had the same thing happen in the mid eighties to a RCBS 38 carbide die. The die was about a year old and used only for about 100 cases and the insert came out. I called RCBS and was asked to sent the die and insert back for replacement. I did so and two weeks plus or minus a few days later I received a box back from RCBS with my old die and loose insert inside, along with a note stating that it was abuse in their eyes.

The die didn't have a mark on it except for a fingerprint of flash rust on the top of the die on the knurled spot from adjusting the die with damp hands. Not a mark on the die otherwise.

I kept the die and sent a letter to RCBS that should still have their ears burning. I will never buy another RCBS die again.

On a whim I bought a set of Lee carbide dies because I needed them to load a volume of 357 rounds. Today, many many many thousands of rounds later the dies still function as new.

I must say that RCBS has replaced other small parts with no problems...like the retaining spring that holds the shell holder in the ram. After 25 years it broke. Replaced with no problem.

[Winger Ed.]

Like billsr, I had the same thing happen in the mid eighties to a RCBS 38 carbide die.
I received a box back from RCBS with my old die and loose insert inside, along with a note stating that it was abuse in their eyes. .

I've watched all this stuff on how companies handle product problems for years.
I listen to other folk's problems, share my own, and spend accordingly when I buy more stuff.
I sort of figure that most all of us do the same..... over the years and generations.

Its amazing to see how some of them have grown (along) with better & better customer service over the years,
and some seem to just sort of keep slugging on along in spite of theirselves.
Then, there is that almost cult like following Dillon has.

Hornady used to be the worst- whatever went wrong, it was your fault and they wouldn't fix it.
That's why I've tryed not to buy anything from them since about 1985.
RCBS seems to have evolved nicely, and it looks like the company has grown in the industry over the last few years.
I have plenty of 'green stuff' myself. Including a new Ammo-Master to reload .50BMG-- that I'm real happy with.
(Sure wish they'd publish a loading book on their cast bullet molds though)
Lee has always seemed to be good, and more than fair with product problems that I know of in the last 25 years.
Lyman: I've gots lots of 'orange' stuff, but never had any problems with it,
and don't hear about anyone else haveing any troubles much either.

Of all the warranty claims, product problems:
Dillion is the one to beat. (I don't have any 'Blue' stuff, but wish I did.)
There was a fella several years ago who had a Dillon progressive-
and it was also several years old,,,, but functional.
His house burned down, and he lost everything.
In the ashes, was his burnt, and charred Dillon press.
A year or so after he got his life back together, he found it again,
and sent it back to Dillon with a note- something like:
"This press was in a house fire. Tell me if it can be repaired, and if so;
how much it will cost. I'll send you a check and wait for it to be refurbished."

A week or so later, he got his new one.
--A complete new Dillon progressive set up, with new dies & powder measure.
Even though the guy offered to pay full price to have his pressed fixed-
Heck, he might have even gotten re-imbursed for it on his Home Owners Insurance--
No questions asked,,,,,, no hassle,,,,,, no problems,,,,,,,,, Mr. Dillon warrantied it.
What does he get for those things? 5-600 bucks?
I don't know...... I bought a Pro-Jector 'Red' one before I learned better.

None of that-
"Even though it doesn't look like its ever been used- Your die is out of warranty"
"Send us everything you've ever bought from us, and we'll make a determination"
"Missing parts? It didn't leave here like that. Talk to the place you bought it from"

Just:
Boom.
Get old, burnt up, top of the line reloading press in,,,,,,,,, look to see that its pretty well trashed.
Put his return address on a new one's box, and wait for the Little Brown Truck to pick it up a few hours later.
Is that cool or what?


As small as the shooting & reloading community and it's customer base is,
and as much as we all talk to each other:

It amazes me why some companys will so willingly just 'dump' on someone for something that might only cost them $2. ,
or a 10 cent decapper pin & a postage stamp.
Even if they are right in the first place,, and some customer might be nut, or just trying to 'get over' on them.

I'm amazed.
I often wonder how many ads. ya need to buy for thousands & thousands of dollars
in the Gun Magazines to overcome the loss of making 20 people mad over $50 bucks (total, not each)?
Or,,,, How many hundreds of high-dollar reloading presses and equipment has Dillon sold- at full price-
simply because word got out that he more or less gave away one to a fella,,,,,,,, 20 years ago?

And then we get to Federal;
Hey! Remember that miss-fired factory round of .30-06 I sent you guys back in the late 80's?
that I never heard back from?
I don't know how much money you saved by not replaceing it..............
Not that I buy factory ammo anymore:
But, no problem..
And I hope yawl haven't worried too much about screwing me back then.
However;
Of all the one gallon buckets I've filled with spent primers that have dropped out of my presses since then-
All those brass got processed with CCIs or Winchester primers.
And I'm sure you'll be happy to hear- To date- not one single round of them have miss fired like your's did.

.

[cuzinbruce]

"I have plenty of 'green stuff' myself. Including a new Ammo-Master to reload .50BMG-- that I'm real happy with.
(Sure wish they'd publish a loading book on their cast bullet molds though)"

RCBS did publish a loading guide for their bullet moulds. I don't know if it is still in print or not. It does seem to turn up on eBay regularly. That's where I got my copy.

[AZ Pete]

Winger Ed.

This year I bought a bunch of Federal bulk packed .22 long rifle (550 per box) at Walmart. I had some mis-fires, usually corrected by rotating the bim in the chamger and shooting again. None the less, there was a small percentage that would mis-fire.

I e-mailed Federal, with the lot number, and asked it they were aware of a bad lot. Federal responded immediately and asked how many I had. I told them 6 boxes of 550 each. They responded for me "to keep my eyes out for UPS". I had replacements within a few days.

Federal didn't ask for samples or the original ammo to be sent to them, because "it was too expensive and cumbersom for customers to be expected to do that, now days".

The new lot of ammo shoots just fine.

Times change, you might want to give Federal a second chance.

[dogfood]

And I thought I was the only guy to ever have an issue with Hornady ...

A few years back, I had a Hornady .45 ACP sizing die that was notorious for breaking decapping pins ... of which I had several, so I wasn't overly concerned. When I broke the last one, I tried to order more, but they were no longer available. I called Hornady - yes, on the telephone - and I was told it was a "wear" part and not covered under warranty. But for something like $16 with shipping, I could "upgrade" to the new style decapping pin.

I've purchased Lee, Lyman, RCBS and Redding reloading gear since then.

dogfood

[mold maker]

I just had the toggle on the handle of my #450 orange sizing press to break. Yeah it took quite a bit of force to size hard cast down .003. Anyway Lyman said the handle was no longer serviced????? I'd have to buy an upgrade for it. Then the good news that the upgrade required some more parts to make it functional. Turns out I'm out $17. for a defective part, just because I didn't break it soon enough.
The repaired Orange sizing press will be for sale and a green one will take it's place.
I'm sure RCBS will enjoy selling me a sizing press, melting pot, ladle and H&I die for the price of an orange #4500.
I've had VERY few problems with my green equipment, and every time RCBS bent over backwards to make me happy.
My first press was an RCBS in 1966, which I still use. The last press I bought was a 2000 Pro press, and I expect them both to last longer than me or my son.
Yeah Lyman makes pretty good stuff, but if it breaks after the short time limit it's you dumb luck.
Considering what it's used for and how over built it should be, all of them should have lifetime no BS warranties. You can bet that from now on as I replace, or add equipment, the color won't be caution orange, but GO GREEN.

[flutedchamber]

Winger Ed,

Don't get me wrong. I own many sets of RCBS dies that I bought prior to the insert incident....along with 3 RCBS presses that I wouldn't trade for anything in the world. I just won't buy their dies again after the royal screwing that they gave me.

This stuff isn't limited to just RCBS. I had a Hornady Pro-Jector that was the largest piece of crap ever produced. My mistake...I bought it about six months after it came out.

After two months of playing with the press and ruining a few dozen assorted cases I noticed that only one station on the press was out of sync. IIRC it was the third after the decap station. Anyway...this station produced cases that had a banana shape on one side. The shellplate and die didn't line up. All stations before and after this station worked fine.

This could only be caused by one of two things. First...the shellplate had one station machined a few degrees out, which wasn't very likely since the problem happened at only one station on the press. Or second...the station bored thru the press frame was out of line.

I made a lot of measurements with dial indicators and such and found that the one station was in fact .018 too far in towards the center of the press.

How this press ended up being machined this way is beyond me. Unless these presses are made in a tiny job shop on a drill press, all this type of work is usually done by computer controlled machines which reduce this type of error to near zero.

I should add here that this one station being out of sync also caused a wear on the center shaft that rotates the shell plate...after only about a hundred rounds.

So I box the press up and send it back to Hornady with a long letter explaining what is wrong and asking for a new press.

In ten days I get a letter back from Hornady saying that they received the press and are looking into the ALLEGED problem. Two weeks later I get my old press back with a letter stating that the press was within manufacturing tolerances and any wear on the press was a function of misuse...which I assume is a kind word for abuse.

I sold the press to a friend for parts after showing him what was wrong...for $30. Hornady got a letter that made the one I sent to RCBS seem like a thank you note.

Hornady makes great bullets. In my opinion they should stick with that and leave the presses to other manufacturers.

[lmcollins]

If the ring is carbide it will probably crack if you try to peen it. Carbide if very brittle.

[Lloyd Smale]

ditch the hornady dies. Ive had problems with them before and like you had to pay to get parts. Personaly i think a set of lee dies is a better set of dies for half the money.

[thebigmac]

O.K. It happened to me... First, let me explain why it happened; I removed the die from the press.. As I looked it over I noticed the die body was somewhat battered. This came from the die being TOO close to the shell holder. A new die was inserted and I made sure it was not as tight... I use a Camdex "J" loader, 1800 per hour. Don't run it that fast though. No problem after a few thousand loads. Finding out why it was too close was a job.. During a 'field strip' cleaning I missed powder that had stuck to the shell holder, that raised the shell holder just enough to cause the problem... Hope this helped.. Bigmac ...

[HangFireW8]

Everyone should know... if you cam-over on a carbide die, it may break out the insert. This is the abuse that isn't covered by warranty. The first generation of carbide dies from every maker weren't the greatest of dies, and reports of inserts coming out were common.

Pacific is not Hornady, Pacific is the loser and Hornady the winner of a buyout. Choosing to support another company's product is strictly optional.

I've had only a few problems with Hornady products. One was a flare die that didn't expand deep enough, after a long phone conversation, they made me a deeper flare die and sent it, no charge.

I have the dreaded ProJector, a later model, and guess what, it works for me. The primer seater is a pain to adjust, but if you follow the instructions carefully, it will work flawlessly. I bent the roll pin at the bottom with a stuck case once, pulling hard on the handle, they diagnosed it on the phone, sent a couple in the mail but I had it up and running thanks to a well-stocked locally owned Ace hardware store. The local Home Depot, on the other hand, had a special drawer for roll pins, completely devoid of roll pins, but with a few nuts and bolts thrown in for good measure. I complained, they said it was their hardware stocking subcontractor's problem. Check back in a few weeks. A few weeks, months later, still empty. I shop at Lowes now, unless they are out of stock, then I go back to the B.O.R.G. only as a last resort. I've bought a washer, dryer, and yesterday a water heater from Lowes since then. I hope that hurts the BORG and their $300Million ex-CEO. Work harder, BORG guys, Bob needs his platinum helicopter.

I bought a scale off of FleaBay with a missing clevis (sp?). Required a re-cal so had to send it in. Told Hornady the truth, sent it in to their scale department (different address), with a letter offering to pay. Came back fixed, in a box like new, only had to pay shipping to them, not back.

I had one problem with Lyman, the center shaft on my big 3200 tumbler broke after about 5 years. Way out of warranty, I sent it back in and they sent it back rebuilt, no charge.

I've broken a half dozen Lee press parts, had to buy every replacement part, each was reasonably priced. Since my press is out of production, we'll see what happens next time. They'll run out of parts eventually. I don't expect them to be replaced.

RCBS costs more because you get the great warranty service. I've bought a powder measure incomplete off of eBay, they sent me the parts no problem. My Lube-a-matic came without any lube, I called, they sent some.

I had one two-phone-call go-around with Leupold about an out-of-round scope ring. The first call got me no satisfaction, but the second call did. The first time the gal was just having a bad day, I think. I got her again the second time and got the part in the mail a few days later. I sent the old one back in to make a point, yes, even their CAD/CAM machines have off Mondays and early Fridays.

Why do I get such great service? I call by phone, I ask the guy or gal how they're doing, I take a moment to say how long I've been using their products, how great something-or-other of theirs is (all brands have their strong points), then get into the gory details of what went wrong, asking if it may be my fault. I never threaten to deep-six their company or their products.

Point is, after hearing one noob after another kvetch on the phone line, the product and company always to blame, your friendly Customer Service Rep is ready to be treated like a human being, and their company with respect.

-HF

[HangFireW8]

ditch the hornady dies. Ive had problems with them before and like you had to pay to get parts. Personaly i think a set of lee dies is a better set of dies for half the money.

I've had quite a few sets of Lee dies. I used to have some in .222 that the neck was .004" off. I indexed it, and used it to correct reformed .223 brass that came out of the swaging process eccentric. I would put the brass in with the high side opposite the index mark on the Lee. Had to buy Redding dies to keep the cases concentric, though.

I have RCBS FL and small base, Hornady FL, and Redding Competition bushing .308Win dies in Neck and Full Length "S". Off all of them, the standard Hornady FL produces the most concentric sized case. When I think of how much I spent on the Reddings....

Sure, if you don't like a set of dies, get the competition. Competition is a good thing. But if you write off companies for one bad product, you'll soon run out of companies, or be very limited in what you allow yourself to buy. It's your choice.

-HF