How accurate is a pistol?

[44Blam]

I always assumed that a pistol is going to be accurate to 15-25-50 yards...
So, I'm wondering if my thoughts on pistol accuracy is just because it is only as accurate as the shooter...

Here is my background on my thought:
I shot a steel match the other day with my CZ52 Tokerev. The the targets were 10 yards away and large 1-2' diameter. I had a tough day at work and went in and was missing everything. Not really everything but 2 or 3 or 4 misses out of 6... That sucks...

I consider my CZ52 to be a very accurate gun...

So, couple days later I go to my favorate range and am shooting long range steel targets. While I am waiting on my rifle to cool down, I pull out the CZ52 and think let's just put a couple on the 100 yard targets...

Well, I put 7 out of 8 on a cowboy silhoute at 100 yards that is about 2' tall and 1' wide... The one I pulled... So the gun is accurate...

So, I try for a chicken (about the size of a real chicken) at 200 yards and after about 20 or so rounds I hit the sucker and knock him down.

That CZ52 has a 4" barrel and shoots a HOT round. But I'm thinking... Is a pistol really much more accurate than we think? I told my buddy this story and he said "wow, that is some serious marksmanship" - I thought, well I kind of played a little battle ship... Low, high, left, right, right high and most likely got really lucky on the hit... So not really good marksmanship, but just zeroing in. And the pistol happened to be consistent enough that I could zero in on the target.

Then I started thinking about my other pistols. I have some that I think are really accurate and others that I think that are well not so much. Now I am thinking, perhaps I am just not shooting them right.

Seems like a good way to start thinking about my varius guns and when I feel like there is an accuracy problem, perhaps I should just go to the long range and see if it really is a problem...

My thinking is that I am wrong to think that pistols are sub 50 yard guns and that I should think of them as guns that I need to figure out how far they are actually accurate out to... Basically, I think I need a new notebook...

[BNE]

Every pistol I own is more accurate than I am. I really think they just take more effort to hold steady and to aim than a rifle that is designed to be held more securely. Iron sights that are only 4 inches apart are difficult to properly line up at 200 yards also.

I have done similar tests as you, clay pidgeons can be hit at 75 yards with a standard pistol. But it usually takes me a few shots!

[high standard 40]

Many handguns are capable of long range accuracy. Some handguns are inherently inaccurate. Factors to consider beyond shooter skill are ammunition, individual gun, and environmintal conditions. I've been shooting handgun silhouette since 1980 and I can assure you that hand guns are indeed capable of fine long range accuracy.

[GhostHawk]

I'm with BNE.

I saw my wife take a Beretta 92fs which she had never before seen or shot. Without using the sights or the laser. Her first shot was 4" low, her 2nd shot drilled a 2 liter pop bottle full of water. Kerbloey! And she did it standing, at 25 yards.

I try not to go down this rabbithole because the limiting factor is the shooter.
Anything that causes me to lose confidence also effects accuracy.

[Hickory]

First, you must understand your own limitations. Mine are around 75 yards for deer and less for smaller critters.
I will confess that I took a shot at a very large 12 point buck once at 156 steps that fell where it stood breaking its spine.

But, the accuracy of a handgun itself is more times than not far greater than the person shooting it.

[DougGuy]

You should try this dry fire exercise, might surprise you. Pick a target or a spot to aim at, put the sights dead on alignment, and dry fire the gun. Watch what the front sight did when the hammer dropped. If it jumped, there's half or better of your group sizes. When you can hold the sights motionless throughout the trigger pull/hammer drop, and maintain alignment of the front sight, groups will shrink admirably. That is, of course, if you memorize your grip/trigger pull and use the same in live fire.

[6bg6ga]

You should try this dry fire exercise, might surprise you. Pick a target or a spot to aim at, put the sights dead on alignment, and dry fire the gun. Watch what the front sight did when the hammer dropped. If it jumped, there's half or better of your group sizes. When you can hold the sights motionless throughout the trigger pull/hammer drop, and maintain alignment of the front sight, groups will shrink admirably. That is, of course, if you memorize your grip/trigger pull and use the same in live fire.

Good information here

[gunarea]

Hey 44Blam
Come shoot some Lawnsteel. We are shooting that chicken with stock out of the box Ruger Blackhawks at 75yds. Some of our shooters choose either head or tail for impact. Note; every shot is handloaded using home cast projectiles exclusively. Another very significant point is that velocities, by rule, may not exceed 875fps. This dictates that Turkeys, at 75yds, must be hit in the head to successfully topple them. Come shoot Lawnsteel, we make really good shooters into really good shooters, while laughing.
Roy

[6bg6ga]

Part of accuracy is going to boil down to how the gun fits your hand and the quality of the trigger pull and so on.....my opinions here. To me personally I like a single stack magazine if I have a semi automatic in my hand and I'll go on record as not liking Glocks again personal opinion. With a revolver I favor a S&W say 25-5 or 629 or 686 simply because of the fit and feel and the very light crisp trigger pull. I am very proficient with these three I mentioned. Now, I did break down and purchase a Ruger Super Red Hawk 44 magnum and I couldn't hit anything with it mainly because the trigger pull wasn't up to what I am used to. Part of choosing a gun is how it feels and reacts when you pull the trigger. As mentioned practice sighting and pulling the trigger build precision, accuracy, and confidence.

[tazman]

Just for grins, I mounted a scope on a handgun I had and fired it from a rest. Accuracy was outstanding. groups around two inches at 25 yards. I didn't get to shoot it at longer distances but indications were that it would do well further out.
Without the scope, I didn't shoot it any better than the other handguns I own.
The limiting factor is definitely the shooter.
There are a lot of people shooting long range silhouette with handguns. They specialize in it. Most use standard factory handguns with little to no modifications.

[rbuck351]

Put on a scope and sand bag rest it and you will find many handguns are very accurate to a hundred yards and some a bunch further.

[Kraschenbirn]

I shot metallic silhouettes...both IHMSA and NRA...for quite a few years and my revolvers were, essentially, 'box stock'. In 'Revolver' class, IHMSA allowed 'trigger jobs' and custom grips, otherwise, guns were pretty much 'off the shelf' but that didn't prevent quite a few of us from shooting, consistently, in the high 30s (out of a possible forty) with an occasional 40 on a good day. (Btw: in those days, IHMSA didn't allow optics...factory irons only!!)

Bill

[NSB]

I've owned a number of handguns that were accurate beyond belief. I had Bill Davis make me two revolvers in .357mag that would shoot ten shots inside 1" at fifty yards off a rest. I have owned rimfire handguns capable of shooting around an inch at 100 yards and used them in small bore silhouette to shoot many, many 60x60 scores. I once shot a 9x10 shoot-off string of NRA rifle chickens at 100 yards with that gun using the factory iron sights and those targets were around a total of 1 moa surface area. I've shot deer out to 167 yards with a revolver standing off hand (one of those Bill Davis guns). I hunted woodchucks for many years with a handgun and again, using one of the Bill Davis revolvers I shot eleven chucks one day all over 100 yards....witnessed shots by the way. The longest was 158 yards. Handguns can be very, very accurate if you know how to shoot them and they are a quality built gun. It's almost always the shooter with a handgun, not the gun.

[bishopgrandpa]

The shooter can be the the most steady in the world.
The gun can be the most accurate.
But if you develop your own loads, the load can make or break you.
So what is accuracy? The shooter, the gun, the load, weather conditions or a combination of them all??

[Wheelguns 1961]

It is my belief that you never master a handgun. I have a checklist that I go through in my head every time I pull the trigger. I have gotten some very good advice over the years. The first, squeeze the trigger like you are taking a babies pulse. The second, and this is what Doug Guy is talking about, follow the front sight right on through the recoil. This last one is hard to do, but once you do it your shooting will improve dramatically. Follow through is also a big deal, and kind of links the two together. I wish I was a great shooter, but the fact of the matter is, I must work very hard to get the results I get. Eternal vigilance is a virtue.

[country gent]

Pistols can be very accurate. Several things are also a factor in pistol accuracy. Pistol are harder to shoot well than a rifle. with out the shoulder stock of a rifle and the brace support it provides. The much shorter sight radius makes sight alignment mush more critical. Think about it a pistols 3-5" sight radius compared to the 18=40" of a rifle. Weight light weight supported by 2 hands floating in the air a triggerpull thats sometimes heavier than the pistol. A rifle thats supported by s hands and a shoulder that weighs maybe 7-10 lbs and a much lighter triffer pull maybe around 2-3 lbs. Then comes ammo pistol rounds are handicapped by low velocities and bullets with a low bc sometimes under .3 while rifle rounds are in the 2000-3000 fps range and with bullets in the .4 bc range up.

Hand gn sihlouette has the rams around 500yds and they are hit routinely with big revolvers and single shot pistols

[mdi]

I've seen some amazing groups from a handgun in a machine rest. My thinking, and this applies to me, is that 98% of inaccuracy problems is the nut behind the handle. When I was younger (stronger, steadier, and had better eyesight) and shooting my 44 Magnums a lot, I could keep a cylinder full from my SBH in 2" @ 50' all day (indoor range). Not today...

[waksupi]

The more you shoot them the more accurate they (you) are. I have a Ruger .22 semi auto that I can go out to my hundred yard rest, and hit an 8X10" gong pretty much of the time. We shot our .44's and .45's at a 960 yard target during a break at a BPCR match, and once we found an aiming point on the mountain above the buffalo, we were hitting pretty regular, at least enough to make it fun, and to know you wouldn't want to be standing out there with any of us shooting at you.

[sharps4590]

Years and years ago, before the years, beer and coffee took their effect, we shot a great deal of revolvers out to 500 yards. It was easy at the time, we were raising beef and owned the land to do it. I was and still am a fan of Elmer Keith soooo..with the easy availability of the range and having been casting and loading for a couple decades already, we set out to see if what Elmer had said was actually possible and, if we could duplicate any of his "shots". All we ever did was confirm Elmer ever said. I welded up a steel buffalo shaped target about 2 ft. long by about 18 inches high. After a while, at 500 yards, we were getting 4 out of six hits from a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt and a Colt New Frontier in 44 Spl. Both had 7 1/2 in. barrels and factory open sights. We were using the "stance" described by Elmer as sitting on our butts with out knees drawn up and resting our wrists on our knees.

It was pretty amazing to see what could actually be done with accurate revolvers and loads. Admittedly it took a while to get where we could hit that small a target that consistently and, if we laid off a couple weeks the skills deteriorated quickly. I doubt I could do it today. 100 yards is a challenge these days.

[dverna]

In my experience, it is rarely the gun. The CZ is not very accurate but it is not the problem in the performance you described.

I would be happy if a had a CZ and it would hold 2" at ten yard. I would be disappointed if my 686+ would not do under an inch. Guns make a difference but not a much as you might think at short ranges.

[fredj338]

There is mechanical accuracy & practical accuracy. Most modern semiauto pistols are mechanically accurate enough to get hits @ 200y. I have done this with Glocks, 1911, but most guns are capable of sub 2" 25y accuracy in a Ransom with decent ammo. I used to shoot met sil with an 8" DW 44nmag. Our shoot off targets were chickens @ 200m. Yes a good revo is capable of better than 6" accuracy at 200m from a rested position. handguns in general are more accurate than their shooters & should not be considered just close range, under 25y weapons. My scoped RBHH hunter will do 3" all day @ 100y from a seated resting field position.

[fredj338]

In my experience, it is rarely the gun. The CZ is not very accurate but it is not the problem in the performance you described.

I would be happy if a had a CZ and it would hold 2" at ten yard. I would be disappointed if my 686+ would not do under an inch. Guns make a difference but not a much as you might think at short ranges.

Not sure which CZ you are talking about but I have seen plenty that will hold under 2" out at 25y.

[Mytmousemalibu]

If you want to know how good your trigger control is, do some dry fire drills like a dime drill.

Place a dime flat & centered on your front sight. Take a firing position and manipulate the trigger and if you have smooth control (key to accuracy) the dime will still be there after the hammer drops.

[Tom W.]

When I had my SRH 480 Ruger and a 2x Leupold mounted on it I could hit clay pigeons @ a measured 100 yards offhand with my handloads with regularity.
My CZ 75 SP 01 is extremely accurate to 70 yards offhand, with my handloads with factory iron sights. I haven't tried any further yet. My Ruger SRH in .44 mag, while shooting 310 gr Lee cast boolits was smacking steel sillouettes @ 170 yards. Both I and the deputy sheriff I was shooting with were surprised. But this was with 18 rounds, not just six.
Unless the boolit fit is poor and your loads are questionable, a reputable handgun should do really well, pistol or revolver.

[Thumbcocker]

If you want to know how good your trigger control is, do some dry fire drills like a dime drill.

Place a dime flat & centered on your front sight. Take a firing position and manipulate the trigger and if you have smooth control (key to accuracy) the dime will still be there after the hammer drops.

THIS!

Shooting a handgun is a system of gun, shooter, and ammo. A great gun won't hit for beans with crappy ammo. An average gun can wow you with great ammo. In revolvers dimensions are critical. I have a coupe of .44's that have no problem with gallon jug sized targets at 200 yards from a seated backrest. But that is with properly sized boolits and a load they like.

[Bazoo]

I shoot my 1911 on my 2/3 IPSC out to 125 yards. Been know to shoot the 6" plate at 50 yards. I can hit clay pigeons at 50 yards with my moms single six or a blackhawk. At 25 yards I can hit a shotgun hull every couple tries with the single six. It's right at my limit (so far), and I work to get more consistent. That's standing. Setting rested off my legs I've been known to hit a shotgun hull at 50 yards every couple shots with the single six, but it's mighty difficult.

That's good day stats. Bad days I do good to hit a 6" plate at 50 yards with the single six. It's mostly nerves and concentration, and then lack of confidence on those days.

Confidence and trigger pull and consistent grip and upper body stance makes a good handgun shooter.

The dime trick, try it one handed and see where you get. If someone else balances the dime on my sight I can do it one handed, which is somewhat harder than 2 handed.

[jsizemore]

If you think you can't do it, you probably won't.

[tazman]

If you want to know how good your trigger control is, do some dry fire drills like a dime drill.

Place a dime flat & centered on your front sight. Take a firing position and manipulate the trigger and if you have smooth control (key to accuracy) the dime will still be there after the hammer drops.

I can't do that. My hands move enough that the dime falls off before I even start the trigger squeeze. A steady, two handed hold for me has the sights wandering around nearly 2.5 inches at 10-12 yards.
I just do the best I can.
Over the last 5 years, due to weekly practice, I have improved from about 6 inches of movement to 2.5 so it is possible to get better.
At my age, I don't expect to be a match grade shooter. Just good enough to hit the middle of a man sized silhouette at across the house distances. Practical accuracy.
Every handgun I own is capable of much better accuracy than I can provide. I test them from a bagged rest. Even there, my eyes and movements don't let them perform at their best.
I have seen really good shot with handguns. I am not one of them.

[arlon]

I think handguns are just an order of magnitude more difficult to deal with than the average rifle.
One short stubby bullet that stabilize great for 50ft and then goes crazy and the next one that has a slightly different lube groove is good to 100 yards. One cylinder has five good holes a 6th one I should just weld shut. Problem is that one I need to weld shut changes from load to load. One likes lead and hates jacketed, the next one will not hit a 55 gallon drum at 25 yards with cast. One has a chamber that won't fit cast and the next has cylinder bores a thousandth of an inch smaller than it's brother and it won't shoot anything. The exact same model made on a different day shoots everything. People make a living fixing revolver cylinders....

Then there's that crazy random choke where the revolvers barrels are screwed to the frame. Getting a perfect one is like drawing lottery numbers. Want to drive yourself crazy, go buy a full set of pin gauges.

Then consider the sights. Some I can see fine and line up nicely for my arm and barrel length some have rear sight notches that are three times too wide for barrel length, some too narrow. Some grips are great, some are horrible. There are just so many variations with handguns and all of them are probably good at some distance with some load and a particular bullet and the right shooter..

If I can hit a soda can at 25 yards half the time with a particular handgun it gets put into the "NEVER sell or trade" shelf in the safe. (-:}

[Echo]

Good information here

Plus One! Dry Firing is super exercise , in that one is coaching themselves. Pulling and heeling become VERY obvious...

[kevin c]

I am definitely the limiting factor in the pistol/ammunition/shooter combination. That being said, for me some chamberings like 22 LR and some guns like my heavy barreled ruger target 22/45 are easier for me to shoot accurately. My groups in all my pistols shrink as I practice group shooting more, and do so more quickly if the gun gets accuracy mods like trigger jobs or more precise sights and if I develop a better accuracy load tailored to the specific pistol.

All that to say that, for me, getting repeatable fine accuracy, defined in absolute terms like group size, means addressing multiple factors that include the pistol, load and the shooter, and currently the biggest gains come from working on the last element.

[Petrol & Powder]

Handguns are interesting tools. Some are better than others but many of them are capable of surprisingly good accuracy.

Back in my younger days I won more than a couple of bets with a snubnose revolver. A decent snubnose 38 Special is capable of far more accuracy than most shooters can extract from the gun.

On another level, with a 4" barreled K-frame chambered in 38 Special, I saw what a handgun could do. I was with a bunch of guys shooting at about 90 yards. The target was a rock on a berm that was just big enough that you could pick it out from the red clay backstop. Once you got the elevation figured out, you could hit it every time. The cartridges were commercial standard pressure reloads with a LSWC. The guns were model 64's - fixed sights, 4" barrels, nothing fancy. Every one of us could hit that rock (which we could barely see at 90 yards) with amazing consistency. The gun was more than capable.

[jonp]

So, I'm wondering if my thoughts on pistol accuracy is just because it is only as accurate as the shooter...


About sums it up for every firearm.

[jimb16]

How are you defining a pistol? My old Contender with a 10 inch 7TCU barrel , 100 gr bullet and IMR4198 powder will hold 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards off sandbags. I used to shoot .22 shillouette with a 6 inch High Standard H-D Military from prone and knocked down the rams pretty consistently at 100 yards. Those rams are about the size of an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. Good sights, good ammo and plenty of practice make a world of difference with handguns.

[The Dar]

Here is my background on my thought:
I shot a steel match the other day with my CZ52 Tokerev. The the targets were 10 yards away and large 1-2' diameter. I had a tough day at work and went in and was missing everything. Not really everything but 2 or 3 or 4 misses out of 6... That sucks...


My question is, are you new to shooting competitions? I've seen new shooters in competitions get caught up with racing the timer and missing a lot. If you are new, slow down, take aim and realize you're not competing against others. You are competing against yourself and you will improve in time. If you're not new to competitions, shooting is like any other sport, you will have good days and days that aren't so good.

[tazman]

That is something that I have noticed. The more I practice, the more accurate my guns are. Strange, that.

[gnostic]

F. Bob Chow a famous 1911 builder from San Francisco used to guarantee one inch groups at 50 yards, from a machine rest. The short sight radius is a big part of the problem...

[megasupermagnum]

Mechanically, I see no reason a revolver couldn't produce 2 MOA accuracy. Some, like the 30-30 Magnum Research BFR can do that or even a little better with a scope. Based on what a bullseye shooter can do, I would think most production guns are more up to 4 MOA, although you will never see that with open sights. I've been quite surprised by semi-auto's. I never believed they could shoot as well as a good revolver, but some of them can. Obviously a well put together, nearly custom, or fully custom fit gun can shoot well. But even your typical run of the mill semi-auto with slop you can feel by shaking the gun can still shoot decent. It seems many times production semi-auto's are capable of around 3" at 50 yards from a ransom rest.

[OldBearHair]

My pistol groups are reduced by at least half as one or the other of my two sons are doing the shooting.

[44Blam]

This particular gun is shooting a 30x25... So the bullet is going quite fast and the recoil is significant.

From what everyone else is saying and what I kind of figured, the accuracy is truly achived when you have good ammunition, a good gun and a good shooter...

Here we can control all of these varibles.

[M-Tecs]

Different type of pistol and different shooting technique but my Remington XP-100 6mm BR will hold 1 1/4" five shot group at 300 yards constantly.

[Hickory]

Funny that the XP100 would come up.
30 some years ago I was shooting prairie dogs with a guy who brought one along with him for just that purpose.
After an hour of pot shooting prairie dogs before lunch, he put it away and went back to using his rifle.
Setting there in camp he said he couldn't hit anything with the XP.
I asked if I could try it.
After 10 shots and 9 prairie dogs I suggested a better trigger and a higher magnification scope then the 4x he had on it.

[6bg6ga]

AS mentioned before the pistol is probably better than the operator. My 44mag Desert Eagle was capable of 50 yard groups of 1/2" on sandbag with an X2 scope. It would have been better yet with a decent trigger. Hickory mentioned a higher magnification scope and a better trigger which is necessary to obtain the most of the easier modifications that can be done.

[Bookworm]

.....

Then there's that crazy random choke where the revolvers barrels are screwed to the frame. Getting a perfect one is like drawing lottery numbers. Want to drive yourself crazy, go buy a full set of pin gauges.

(-:}

I feel your pain brother, I feel your pain...:-|

[gnostic]

Funny that the XP100 would come up.
30 some years ago I was shooting prairie dogs with a guy who brought one along with him for just that purpose.
After an hour of pot shooting prairie dogs before lunch, he put it away and went back to using his rifle.
Setting there in camp he said he couldn't hit anything with the XP.
I asked if I could try it.
After 10 shots and 9 prairie dogs I suggested a better trigger and a higher magnification scope then the 4x he had on it.

I have an XP-100 with a four power Leupold and can't shoot it worth crap. I put it on sandbags and can still see movement in the crosshairs at a hundred yards. I think this pistol would shoot great if I could get a better hold. The long eye relief scope is hard to use, the crosshairs move around and it blacks out altogether depending on the angle being viewed at...

[44MAG#1]

45 reponses so far.
I will say this and it is based on many, many, many, many years of being a member of an outdoor range and also shooting on indoor ranges where I have had the opportunity to see many different levels of handgun shooters firing. From absolute beginners to High Master class NRA Bullseye shooters.
Based on that experience I would say 80-85 percent of the accuracy of a handgun fired by the shooter, standing offhand (freehand if you so desire) with a two hand hold is the shooter themselves.
Shooting from a rest rarely, if ever, has anything to do with how good a handgun shoots once in the shooters hands once they stand up and shooting on their feet holding the gun unsupported in their hands.
Also many will have an extremely lucky day and they forget all about the bad shooting they have done in the past. How well one shoots should be based not on ones most lucky day or their most unlucky day. It should be based on what the shooter can do over and over consistantly.
If this post is inappropriate please let me know. I will delete it if it is.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I can't do that. My hands move enough that the dime falls off before I even start the trigger squeeze. A steady, two handed hold for me has the sights wandering around nearly 2.5 inches at 10-12 yards.
I just do the best I can.
Over the last 5 years, due to weekly practice, I have improved from about 6 inches of movement to 2.5 so it is possible to get better.
At my age, I don't expect to be a match grade shooter. Just good enough to hit the middle of a man sized silhouette at across the house distances. Practical accuracy.
Every handgun I own is capable of much better accuracy than I can provide. I test them from a bagged rest. Even there, my eyes and movements don't let them perform at their best.
I have seen really good shot with handguns. I am not one of them.

I completely understand that. I'm not nearly as steady as I used to be. There are various other dryfire drills out there that may be better suited for you too. Im a USPSA competitor myself, I can easily say that practice is key to improvement. For example I practice draw to first shot drills. When starting it feels like you are at the limit to how fast you physically move your muscles. That seems like something that just is what it is. But with enough repetition that can improve too. You can change your physical attributes with enough training if you want to. Dont let that take your fun away though. You do you and pursue what makes you happy!

[6bg6ga]

45 reponses so far.
I will say this and it is based on many, many, many, many years of being a member of an outdoor range and also shooting on indoor ranges where I have had the opportunity to see many different levels of handgun shooters firing. From absolute beginners to High Master class NRA Bullseye shooters.
Based on that experience I would say 80-85 percent of the accuracy of a handgun fired by the shooter, standing offhand (freehand if you so desire) with a two hand hold is the shooter themselves.
Shooting from a rest rarely, if ever, has anything to do with how good a handgun shoots once in the shooters hands once they stand up and shooting on their feet holding the gun unsupported in their hands.
Also many will have an extremely lucky day and they forget all about the bad shooting they have done in the past. How well one shoots should be based not on ones most lucky day or their most unlucky day. It should be based on what the shooter can do over and over consistantly.
If this post is inappropriate please let me know. I will delete it if it is.

Since we can not consistently guarantee the accuracy or lack of on a day to day basis I see no merit in trying to boil it down to Joe blow can consistently shoot 96 out of 100. You get what you get. Some days are good and some not so good. Some days I can shoot well and others my arthritis makes it very painful and my score goes down the tubes. So am I a 50% shooter or a 90 %? depends on how you want to score it. I can live with I managed 90% today and next Tuesday I got 70%. to me thats easier to take than saying I'm a 80% shooter.

[44MAG#1]

Since we can not consistently guarantee the accuracy or lack of on a day to day basis I see no merit in trying to boil it down to Joe blow can consistently shoot 96 out of 100. You get what you get. Some days are good and some not so good. Some days I can shoot well and others my arthritis makes it very painful and my score goes down the tubes. So am I a 50% shooter or a 90 %? depends on how you want to score it. I can live with I managed 90% today and next Tuesday I got 70%. to me thats easier to take than saying I'm a 80% shooter.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I try to look on how good I shoot based in what I can do based on an extended basis.
Someone else can do it their way.
Remember an accidental Hole inOne does not make someone an excellent golfer. Just Lucky.

[fredj338]

If you want to know how good your trigger control is, do some dry fire drills like a dime drill.

Place a dime flat & centered on your front sight. Take a firing position and manipulate the trigger and if you have smooth control (key to accuracy) the dime will still be there after the hammer drops.

A very old drill that really only has an application for the slow fire bullseye guys. The target never lies. Your target, what ever the distance, will tell you if you have the three basics in hand; grip, sights, trigger press, at what ever your speed is..

[megasupermagnum]

I never understood the coin drill. Every single handgun I own has a hammer strong enough to knock the coin off, even if the gun is set firmly on a rest. Is this just some impossible drill guys make beginners do to make them feel bad?

[John Boy]

I always assumed that a pistol is going to be accurate to 15-25-50 yards...
So, I'm wondering if my thoughts on pistol accuracy is just because it is only as accurate as the shooter...
Sure is a long post when you determined it is not the handgun ... IT'S YOU

[Mytmousemalibu]

I never understood the coin drill. Every single handgun I own has a hammer strong enough to knock the coin off, even if the gun is set firmly on a rest. Is this just some impossible drill guys make beginners do to make them feel bad?

I have several handguns that I had tried this on some time ago and while not all would work, I certainly had success with it.

I have a favorite live fire drill I like to do which can be done at any type of range. Its all about calling your shots. Put a nice shot up target over a fresh one. Take how ever many shots you feel comfortable with. Call your shots as shoot, write them down if needed. Check your target, did your actual hits match your called shots?

It tests your shot calling but also your ability to to get accurate hits.

[marek313]

I learned not to long ago that handguns require much practice and "dry firing" in front of your TV or just sitting around is the best, safest, cheapest way to practice and over time it will make you much better shooter. I even broke my firing pin on my Canik TP9 SFX but its ok it was worth it.

As many mentioned handguns and especially revolvers can be very accurate. Short barrel is not a problem the only problem is short sight distance, holding it steady and smooth trigger break.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

You know you are having fun when your target only occupies a small portion of your front sight!

[dtknowles]

We would not need long guns if handguns were as easy to shoot accurately as long guns. Smaller mistakes cause bigger misses with handguns.

I had three CZ-52's. I recently sold one, did not need three even though I have 9x19, 9x23 and 7.62x25 barrels. It is easy to swap barrels and recoil springs. Mine all shot like I would expect a service handgun to shoot. Around 3 inch groups at 25 yards. Good enough that you have no excuse if you miss a plate on the plate rack at 25 yards. The 9x23 hurts if I don't wear a glove. It is like shooting a model 19 with full magnum loads and small grips. I feel I can shoot better than the CZ-52 the gun is the limiting factor.

I can shoot those same 3 inch groups at 100 yards with my Dan Wesson revolvers or my Ruger MK II and 2 inch groups with my Anschutz Exemplar. With these guns while the ammo can make some difference, I am the weak link. With the Exemplar, small differences in grip pressure and shoulder position made a big difference off a bench. Not so much when shooting off hand because holding up the gun makes you have a consistent grip and shoulder position.

I think 1 moa pistols are rarer than 1 moa long guns and even if the guns can do it it is harder for the shooter.

Tim

[Mytmousemalibu]

I know well made handguns put in capable hands can produce some real feats of accuracy. Like most of you have mentioned, they are more accurate than we are in most cases and its the short sight radius that presents a challenge. That and you don't typically have the extra points of contact as on a long gun that add stability.

Every year I shoot the Area 3 USPSA championship match at the Hornady range in Nebraska. They like putting in some tough, long distance shots in some stages. Its a guarantee there will be 4-8 shots required on a couple targets set at 48-50yds. This is a very speed & accuracy dependent sport. Those are tough shots to make without taking a lot of time. A lot of the competitors are iron sight divisions too. Ive seen some pretty amazing shooting doing stuff like that or shooting from a wobbly bridge, etc. If the shooter is capable, so are the handguns!

[Thumbcocker]

Many years ago Ross Seifried (sp?) wrote an article about the MOA revolver. He was able to get 5 shots into a group about teh size of a postage stamp at 100. Before he did that he spoke with readers of the magazine he was writing for and some of them had gotten 1" 100 yard groups from a revolver. IIRC almost all the guns had been fire lapped. Ross carefully loaded his ammo and I think had a custom mold made.

I got two things out of the article:

1.) Revolvers can be very accurate.

2.) there are people out in the real world who do extraordinary things with guns and reloading but never thump their chests and beat the drum about it. They just do it.

[44MAG#1]

Talked several times with Seyfried years ago over the phone. I ask him about his shooting abilities. Never did he say he could shoot like some claim or give the indication they can when shooting offhand.
That is the reason I judge shooting ability by what someone can do over a period of time. That is also the reason I say 80 to 85 percent of the accuracy of a handgun is the shooter.
I have been accused of saying just shoot any load whether it shoots well or not and have at it.
I have never said that exact thing. I have said minor differences in benchrest accuracy will not make any difference in the vast, vast, vast majority of shooters ability.
Ive seen evidence of that too.
This is especially true as recoil goes up. Someone that can do very well with a 22RF then handed a 357 Mag full power sometimes will fall flat with it. Hand them a 44 Mag and they will do even worse. Ive seen people shooting in the ground between the firing line and the 25 yard target and the target would be chest height. Hand them a 454 Casull and see where they hit.
The handgun is the least component in the formula of accuracy in shooting unsupported.

[Drew P]

For kicks look up Jerry miculek shooting a steel target at 1000 yards with a revolver, I believe it was a 9mm but I can’t quite remember.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ3XwizTqDw

Wow, second shot he hits it. The guy is a freak. Interesting how flat he seems to be pointing it.

Apologies if this was already posted.

[44MAG#1]

One quickly notes that he did not shoot the cylinder full of 8 rounds at it. Smart men know when to quit.
I will guarantee out of two cylinder fulls of ammo he could hit it far more than most of us though.
How many rounds, if any, did he fire in preperation for the filming?
When Bob Munden hit that steel plate with his 44 Mag how many shots did he shoot walking them in before the actual hit segment? I think the show showed him shooting only two rounds.I called him shortly after that was on TV and he walked them in. We didnt see that on TV.
I am not trying to be a spoil sport but just looking at reality.



For kicks look up Jerry miculek shooting a steel target at 1000 yards with a revolver, I believe it was a 9mm but I can’t quite remember.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ3XwizTqDw

Wow, second shot he hits it. The guy is a freak. Interesting how flat he seems to be pointing it.

Apologies if this was already posted.

[NSB]

You can take all those Youtube videos with a grain of salt. They film continue to film until they get one good result and then use only that segment. Several years ago I was asked by a film crew to shoot some very small steel plates at 35 yards and not miss. They told me right up front that they'd like me to not miss and shoot slow if that would help. They said they'd speed the shot up to make it look fast later on. My forty second sequence was sped up to about fifteen seconds. As good as Jerry M. is, he doesn't count on hitting anything at a thousand yards with a 9mm handgun. He might shoot until it happens and that's the part you'll see.

[sharps4590]

Our experience echo's 44MAG's. When we first started shooting at 500 yards, all three of us walked the rounds onto the target while another or both of us spotted. GENERALLY, once the correct sight picture was found it was good for the day....unless the sky was full of floating clouds. Change the nlight and so did the sight picture.

Elmer Keith had a front blade made with gold bars laid in it that came on at different ranges when held level with the top of the rear sight. I think Ed McGivern did the same. We did something similar by just filing grooves in the front blade and filling them with white out. It worked very well.

Oh, for us and certainly me, if the wind kicked up a little...I was done. We learned a lot about what a little breeze will do to a slow moving bullet. As for me, I never did learn how to apply it to my shooting. Being a woos...it was easier to quit...lol!!

[rbuck351]

First let me say Miculek is one of the best but on the 1000yd shot he missed the balloon. His shot was low and left but the splatter on the steel plate broke the balloon. Still quite the shot at 1000 yds. But no, we don't know how much prep work or how many shots were fired to make that "hit". Jerry didn't say he hit the balloon, he just said he would see if he could break it.

[Thumbcocker]

Oh to have an ammo sponsor.