.50-70 Governtment in a Sharps carbine

[David LaPell]

I have an opportunity to pick up a 1863 Sharps carbine in .50-70 Government or .50 1 3/4 as it's listed on the barrel. The gun is a newer rifle made by Shiloh Sharps. I don't have much experience with the round, I do know from looking I can get dies, ammo and brass fairly easy from Buffalo Arms and a couple other sources, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the round, or Shiloh's rifles. I have had a few guns in .45-70 over the years, I've heard the .50-70 was a bit of a thumper compared to the .45-70, I figured it will be a nice change of pace.

[dtknowles]

I don't see a lot to recommend 50-70. I have a Swede Roller in a similar cartridge. I reload it without dies but Black Powder only. The brass is more expensive than most cartridges and the trajectory is less flat. It might hit harder than 45-70 but that only matters if the target needs it. What are you shooting at the needs more than a 45-70.

I got my roller because I wanted one and that was the cheapest roller around. If it came in a more common caliber for the same price I would have pick differently.

Tim

[Chill Wills]

1863?
Does Shiloh make a conversion Sharps replica?

To respond to your question about Shiloh quality, it is very good and they stand behind their product.

Do you have a picture?

[Harleysboss]

I dont have any info on the Shiloh Sharps but I do have a 50-70 govt Remington Rolling Block. Mine is a carbine length built on a #5 action and re barreled and chambered in 50-70. Love it! MVA vernier tang sight. The ammo is easy to build with BP. Easy on the shoulder with the Lee 515-450 grn and 65 grains FFG Goex compressed. This was my first BPCR and was intimidated to say the least. All for not. I picked up a book "The 50-70 Shooters Handbook by Croft Barker. Pretty much tells you all you need to know. I also researched old post on this forum to learn. Then, I just pulled up my big boy pants and started doing it. If I can do it... a caveman can too or something like that:)

[Jedman]

I know very little about the Shiloh Sharps rifle, it sounds like something I should own but I don't. I do have several 50-70 rifles and carbines on different single shot action types and it's one of my favorites.
It has similar ballistics to a 50 cal. muzzleloader like a 450 gr. boolit at 1200-1300 fps and similar trajectories.
Saying it is more of a thumper than a 45-70 isn't really the way it is. Both can be loaded light or heavy and with black powder loads they are similar but the 45-70 can be loaded to a higher performance level depending on the gun. I like everything about the 50-70. It looks to me like a GIANT 22 short. I have taken several deer with it and can say it's just like a 50 cal. muzzleloader but different. Count me as a big fan of the 50-70 but I only shoot it with smokeless powder.

Jedman

[David LaPell]

1863?
Does Shiloh make a conversion Sharps replica?

To respond to your question about Shiloh quality, it is very good and they stand behind their product.

Do you have a picture?

Identical to this one.

https://i.imgur.com/2CkstJL.jpg?1

[Chill Wills]

Nice - for the right price.

I checked, Shiloh may not make the 1863 anymore. They do not catalog it on their websight and so it is harder to check if they made a cartridge model (conversion Sharps) 1863. I was guessing they did not but I don't know. A phone call to them would provide a lot of information as a prospective buyer of one in the aftermarket.

[smithnframe]

I'd buy it if the price was right!

[varsity07840]

If you go to the forum on Shiloh's site, you can get lots of information about their .50-70s. I'm pretty sure that their barrels have a .510 groove and are intended for .512 bullets. I believe their twist is faster than the 1:42 of the original government .50-70s. Using 70gr black powder loads and the 450gr. government style bullet, I'd say the carbine's recoil is about the same as a light weight .45-70 off the bench. In warm weather, I wear a sissy pad for either. I owned an H&R Offficer's Model TD .45-70 that was brutal in a session lasting more than 10 rounds. The Lee 450 gr Government bullet is usually the bullet of choice. I tried a shorter 380 gr bullet intended for a Smith or Maynard but I couldn't get them to group well. My carbine is an original with the three groove liner.

[rockrat]

Mine is a converted Ruger #1. I can go from mild to make you cry loads. I have shot 750gr boolits thru it with almost cloverleaf groups @100yds, but three shots was all my shoulder wanted!!!

Really gets peoples attention when I shoot our 100yd. gongs, with any weight boolit. Its pretty loud and makes the gong really move

[Tom Herman]

David,

If you have the opportunity to pick up a .50-70 rifle or carbine, I would do so!
I have both an original 1868 Springfield Trapdoor and an 1859 Sharps (one of the 30,000 or so converted from percussion to .50/70 about 1867-69).
The .50/70 is very easy to load, and an absolute scream to shoot!
Recoil (even with BP rounds) is noticeably less than with .45/70 or 11mm Mauser.
The 11mm (Mauser 71/84) and .45/70 (11.7mm Danish remington, w/.405 .45/70 bullet) are not comfortable to shoot more than casually.
The .50/70 Springfield is a real pleasure! I can shoot as many rounds as I want without a shoulder pad.
I even let a youngster fire it that had never fired a gun before, that's how tame it is.
My original guns use .515" and larger bullets. I'm using 365 grain Spencer bullets, they work great!
The Model 1859 has a broken tang. Once that's taken care of, I look forward to firing it as well.
I use about 70 grains of 1.5 F BP, and roughly 40% smokeless equivalents: Starting loads of around 25 grains of 5744 and 4198.
Would recommend the 5744, as it's not position sensitive. I heed the warning not to use fillers. Expect unburned kernels of powder. LOTS of fun!
Enjoy!

-Tom

[bob208]

I have a garret . have had it for years I only load with bp. very good shooting rifle kicks about as much as a 94 in .30-30

[Reverend Al]

I'd say yes to it as well. I have a New York Militia Remington Rolling Block rifle, a C. Sharps Arms Hartford Sporter, and an original 3 band Sharps military rifle that was converted from percussion to cartridge after the Civil War. All 3 are in .50-70 Government and it's interesting cartridge with lots of great history and is pleasant to shoot.

[junkbug]

I had a Farmingdale Shiloh carbine in 50-70. It is one of 2 rifles I bitterly regret selling, The recoil was a little stiff with the 450 grain bullets, but not as bad with the 335 gr express mold. Sadly, at that time, I cast little, and reloaded black powder even less. It was a high quality gun. I am always on the look out for a replacement.

[StrawHat]

The more I use my 50-70, the less use I have for the small bore sibling. I use an 1866 frankenrifle I cobbled together from an 1866 barreled action and the lock, stock, etc. from an 1841 Mississippi rifle. Similar hit from the 50 hit noticeably harder than from the 45. Yet easy on my shoulder, the shoulder that is plastic and stainless steel.

If you decide to pass, let us know. Someone will be glad you did!

Kevin

[David LaPell]

I contacted Shiloh Sharps today, they discontinued the 1863 carbine model when they introduced the 1877 model Sharps in 2013.

[flint45]

Ihave a rolling block in .50-70 very fun to shoot. I have the lee 515 gr. shoots great plus two custom molds one from Accurate and one from Mountain Molds both are excellent shooters and a Lyman and a R.C.B.S black or smokeless it works great. Love the .50-70 I would buy the Sharps.

[Tom Herman]

Reverend Al,

Do you load a single size bullet for all of your .50/70's, or do you load different diameters for the different guns, and segregate the fired brass according to gun?
Many Thanks!

-Tom

[Chill Wills]

I contacted Shiloh Sharps today, they discontinued the 1863 carbine model when they introduced the 1877 model Sharps in 2013.

That makes sense. Though cool rifles, percussion Sharps may not have been a big seller. Or not enough to keep it in the line-up anyway.
For us curious types, what is the price on the rifle you are looking at?

[David LaPell]

That makes sense. Though cool rifles, percussion Sharps may not have been a big seller. Or not enough to keep it in the line-up anyway.
For us curious types, what is the price on the rifle you are looking at?

The gun isn't a percussion sharps, it's in .50-70 like Shiloh still offers now. This gun is like the original carbines that were re-chambered from percussion carbines from 1859 and 1863.

The gun is at a firearms auction house, reputable, and the auction is three weeks out. The estimate is going $900-$1400 by the condition, etc. I imagine it could also be a little lower because .50-70 is not a cartridge that's easy to come by, who ever wants this gun is going to have to handload and it's not an original Sharps carbine it's a new production gun so it's nothing for collectors.

[Chill Wills]

The gun isn't a percussion sharps, it's in .50-70 like Shiloh still offers now. This gun is like the original carbines that were re-chambered from percussion carbines from 1859 and 1863.

Right.
Thanks for making that clear but did understand it is a cartridge rifle and suspected it had to be a replica cartridge rifle conversion from your first post. What started my reply, was the "1863" paired with "50-70". I was never interested in the percussion model Shiloh's, at least not enough to remember if they made a copy of a conversion Sharps as well as their regular percussion model. As a replica, it occupies an interesting sub-model. I'm primarily a match shooter that is interested in all old rifles. My one time match shooting partner 20 years ago had a large collection of original civil war firearms and we shot his two conversion Sharps from time to time as well as the percussion Sharps. They are fun to get to shoot, for sure!

I think that if this particular well made Shiloh model rifle does it for you, ...and it looks to be a nice rifle/carbine and the price is right, you should jump on it. The 50-1.75" as has been said, is an easy one to load for and is fun to shoot. I also have a rifle chambered for 5-2.5" (50-90 SS) and for 99% of the shooting I do with it the 50-70 Gov. would have been more than enough gun. I can load the 50-90 to be pleasant to shoot so it is not a problem either.
Dies are the only possible problem with the smaller 0.508 barrels.

Should you end up with the rifle please post some pictures of the action area from a few angles. I for one would be interested in seeing how Shiloh did it.
I hope you buy it.