Careers in the Firearms and Reloading Industries

[Comfy]

Hello all,

I want to hear from those of you who were or still are fortunate to work in the firearms/reloading industries.

I am 19 years old and studying electrical engineering. I have an engineering co-op in the auto industry. However, this doesn't interest me all that much. I figure it can't hurt to aim for my ideal career while having electrical engineering as a strong back-up plan. The Lord will put me where he wants either way.

I know every company has the generic manufacturing, quality, etc. positions. But that isn't what I'm looking for. I want to work intimately with these things that I enjoy so much. I want to know if I can turn my hobby into a career.
So, for those of you who familiar with the industry, how did you get your foot in the door? What questions did you ask? What connections did you make? What education or background did you have? What opportunities are out there?

I don't know what opportunities there may be or if they even exist. So, please, feel free to tell me if this is far-fetched.

My current tactic has been emailing different companies with a brief essay about me and what I am looking for. This did not seem to garner many responses.

I would love for anecdotes and advice.
Thank You
-CCB

[Wayne Smith]

I hope Outpost sees this. Or you could PM him. He is retired now so some of his knowledge may be dated but he spent most of his professional life in the industry.

[Winger Ed.]

Check out gunsmithing schools.

That might be what you're looking for more so than just working the counter at a gun store,
or some station in the manufacturing end of the industry.

Gunsmithing will be more challenging,
and there will be WAY more different things to do every day than just running one or two different machines in a factory.

Of the old fashioned gunsmiths I've known, they never quit learning, or doing different things in the trade.

[Outpost75]

Working in the firearms industry is an exercise in frustration. While it had its satisfying aspects, in 20 years I grew tired of corporate bean counters and mismanagement and had little saved for my efforts. I was glad to change careers into engineering project management where I could use my education, experience and knowledge for something useful where I could feel that my efforts made a difference, and more importantly, to save enough to enjoy a modest retirement.

My prior experience in QA, logistics, material management, industrial health and safety, research, development, testing, evaluation and project management made for an easy transition to a satisfying 24-year career in public works. I experienced a variety of assignments from accident investigation, risk management, wastewater, stormwater, solid waste management, waste-to-energy production. After 9/11 the focus shifted into emergency planning, hazard mitigation, emergency protective measures, emergency response, and disaster recovery operations. I worked local, state and incidents of national significance ranging from floods and hurricanes through hazmat releases, building colllapses, explosions, highway crashes, house fires and terrorism.

My advice is to get a technical degree in the physical sciences, mathematics or engineering with additional coursework in computer science, accounting, project management, logistics, GIS, etc and to become familiar with the government aquisition, contracting and procurement process.

Lose the fantasy of working at your hobby for a living.

Concentrate on getting a real job to provide a good living for your family, a satisfying work environment, with decent benefits and ability to save for a secure retirement.

After I left the shooting industry I didn't pop- a cap for ten years. Now that shooting is again a hobby I am finally enjoying it again.

[Comfy]

Thank you for the reply Winger,

I am glad you brought up gunsmithing. I have looked at the curriculum for SDI and it seems to lack in ammunition related studies. In their "Program Outcomes" section it says, " [Be able to] Explain the principles of ballistics as they relate to ammunition production, and explain various procedures for making ammunition." I am just using this an example, I don't know how other programs differ.

So in order to move this discussion away from gunsmithing, let's say my ideal job would be to work on the creation of a reloading manual. Gunsmithing school is still something I am interested in, but I don't know if that is going to get me to this.

[lefty o]

Thank you for the reply Winger,

I am glad you brought up gunsmithing. I have looked at the curriculum for SDI and it seems to lack in ammunition related studies. In their "Program Outcomes" section it says, " [Be able to] Explain the principles of ballistics as they relate to ammunition production, and explain various procedures for making ammunition." I am just using this an example, I don't know how other programs differ.

So in order to move this discussion away from gunsmithing, let's say my ideal job would be to work on the creation of a reloading manual. Gunsmithing school is still something I am interested in, but I don't know if that is going to get me to this.

if you want to make good money, stick with an engineering degree. very few gunsmiths make much more than enough to get by on.

[Winger Ed.]

let's say my ideal job would be to work on the creation of a reloading manual. .

I wish ya all the luck in the world, but that might be a tough nut to crack.

Just a wild guess- I'd think that doing the research/testing and putting the books together is more of an in-house sort of thing
done by more tenured employees/machinists/engineers than something readily accessible on a entry level.

Keep at it. Finding a job you're miserable doing is easy.

Find a job you like & enjoy, and you'll never 'work' a day in your life.

[Shawlerbrook]

Great advice from Outpost. Unfortunately, the future in the civilian firearms industry does not look bright.

[MrWolf]

What about the military for job considerations or even defense contractors; the larger ones? Don't know much about engineering as I was one of those bean counters everyone on here loves :bigsmyl2:

[fatelk]

I worked in the industry to a small degree many years ago. In my opinion, Outpost’s advice is absolutely spot on; I agree 100%.

My advice would be to pour yourself into your education and get that engineering degree, then start your career and get some solid experience in your field. After 10 years if you’re still passionate about working in “the industry”, you’ll have a resume that will open a lot of doors for you, and a more developed perspective to compare a potential move against where you’re at already.

[Cole440]

Hey, just figured I would chime in as I am also 19 and looking for internships and such. I am a political science major focusing on American Politics and Public Law so we are going different directions, but just remember, it will all work out! Best of luck to you friend! Hopefully some day when I purchase a new firearm it will have your stamp of approval!
Cole

[wv109323]

It seems from my perspective, that the most people in demand in the gun industry are gunsmiths that specilize in a specific area. Examples are 1911 pistolsmiths, smiths who work on .22 lr benchrest rifles, custom hunting rifles and such. These people get work from all over the USA and have a backlog. Local gunsmiths have to be a jack of all trades and a master of none.
With an EE degree you may land a job with a company that supplies military armament or a career at a site that produces gun powder.
I like others don't see a market in the domestic firearm industries.

[Outpost75]

What about the military for job considerations or even defense contractors; the larger ones? Don't know much about engineering as I was one of those bean counters everyone on here loves :bigsmyl2:

Military procurement is mostly politics and snake oil. Everything that then-President Eisenhower warned us about the Military-Industrial Complex is true. Accountability and consequences for actions are rare inside the beltway.

Soon after I retired one of my VA Tech cadet company classmates who went on to command an infantry battalion was telling me how hard it had gotten since Obama's administration because most of the true war fighters were purged and most O6 and above who were left were mostly "blow dried, fake tanned, liars." He went on to say how hard it is to compete against liars. The liars always have the advantage over you. Soldiers' lives only matter when they can be used as political leverage to fund some Senator’s pet project, otherwise they are an abstraction that only a select few in the acquisition world can even fathom. The courageous ones resist the useless bureaucracy to get things done for our soldiers, who never receive an ounce of recognition but still push against the crushing weight of a system that is designed to prevent materiel from being fielded, but to "milk the cow" for the maximum amount of taxpayer money that can be gleaned through inefficiency and cost over-runs.

Much of the grunt work is done by short-term contract employees who must job hop and move frequently with little job security. It is not much better on the military side unless you are happy being the "PM Glue Gun." All subject to the political merry-go-round and run by a corrupt and hopeless civilian bureaucracy.

[dangitgriff]

Hey, just figured I would chime in as I am also 19 and looking for internships and such. I am a political science major focusing on American Politics and Public Law so we are going different directions, but just remember, it will all work out! Best of luck to you friend! Hopefully some day when I purchase a new firearm it will have your stamp of approval!
Cole

About that degree..?
Burn it or bury it and start over at Mises University in Auburn, Alabama learning Austrian Economics. After America goes bankrupt we will need a few sound monetary advocates to rebuild the banking and financial sectors.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken

[MT Gianni]

If I wanted to be involved in developing a reloading manual for a corporation, I would get a degree in Chemical Engineering, and have a long background in reloading to draw on. I would understand that the last Lyman Cast manual was developed by gunwriters, that most other manuals/handbooks are from family corporations and or large corporations that have little turnover. I expect that there may be 4 or 5 job openings every decade in the industry.
Outpost may have said it best, in that the best way to stop enjoying your hobby is to make it your life work. I believe you would be better off with an occupation that gives you the financial freedom to hunt Africa, shoot to your hearts content and spend time with loved ones.

[fatelk]

It seems from my perspective, that the most people in demand in the gun industry are gunsmiths that specilize in a specific area. Examples are 1911 pistolsmiths, smiths who work on .22 lr benchrest rifles, custom hunting rifles and such. These people get work from all over the USA and have a backlog. Local gunsmiths have to be a jack of all trades and a master of none.
With an EE degree you may land a job with a company that supplies military armament or a career at a site that produces gun powder.
I like others don't see a market in the domestic firearm industries.

I'd agree with that. The folks that I know of who have done well in gunsmithing have: 1. been at it for a long time (experience and reputation), and 2. found their niche. Finding your specialty and developing a strong reputation takes a lot of hard work, long hours, business skills, self promotion. It's a little along the lines of being a famous athlete or a successful artist; many aspire but few succeed.

[M-Tecs]

Outpost is spot on. Turning an enjoyable hobby into a career normal kills the enjoyment factor.

[Pressman]

I spent 5 years working as a catalog writer and new products rep for a major shooting supply company. Yes, it was fun as I got to meet a lot of famous people, only on the phone.

There's work out there, just think outside the shooting aspect box. When I graduated from college my goal was to head for Grand Island and Hornady. That door never opened, not even a crack and I found myself working in an area of the industry I had not thought of.

Ken

[popper]

Forget it! Get your degree and then look for what you want. BSEE, 45 yrs doing design I really enjoyed. Few of the lucky ones. You will probably chase around for work, expect it - Dad told me engineers keep the resume in the back pocket. So true. CS is kinda like MBA now (or a psych degree), too many to go around. Unless you can con a job at DARPA (boring).

[JimB..]

I’m with MTGianni, you want to work with powder then you want more focus on chemistry.

[jdfoxinc]

The Lyman load data is generated in their ballistics lab, using scientific method, pressure barrels, and precicely hand loaded cartridges. Only new powders l/primers/projectiles are tested each issue. All other data pre exists from earlier testing. All of that labs employees have grey or little hair.

Working for one of the companies that design manufactur ammunition manufacturing machinery would be a nitch.

[Outpost75]

...Working for one of the companies that design manufactur ammunition manufacturing machinery would be a nitch.

If you speak French, Flemish, Italian, German or Korean. Most of it these days is produced offshore.

[Wayne Smith]

I know someone with her MS Engineering from Virginia Tech who is working at Scandia Labs investigating making explosives more effective. You gotta be one of the best to land a job like that.

[Outpost75]

I know someone with her MS Engineering from Virginia Tech who is working at Scandia Labs investigating making explosives more effective. You gotta be one of the best to land a job like that.

Yup! The Corps Review magazine in a recent issue had a brief update on her. Bravo Zulu!

It is amazing to see what the former cadets from previous graduating classes are doing now.

[Bent Ramrod]

I don’t know how applicable this is to your situation, but the most difficult problem in getting into any energetic materials R&D area is that the field is so rarefied. There simply aren’t all that many jobs. The Safety Slogan we had was “Minimize, Minimize, Minimize.” As small quantities of material, as gentle a handling, and as few people around as possible.

When one of these people retires, the network does indeed light up as a replacement is sought, but what they typically want is the maximum level of experience, there already, in the replacement.

The military research facilities generally have some sort of Development Programs where they bring in engineering and science degrees out of college. Check with the Army, Navy and Air Force labs. The problem there is that the “window” for hiring sometimes stays shut for years.

Get your name on the list, and get your degree, or degrees, if possible. A chemistry background is typically wanted, but if you could add it to your electrical degree, you would be better set up to build test equipment and instrumentation for the things you are working on.

With a background in government work, you would at least have some experience on your resume. IIRC, one of our people went to work at Remington, but I don’t know what kind of job he got there.

But getting in in the first place is going to be largely a matter of right place, right time.

[fatelk]

I know someone with her MS Engineering from Virginia Tech who is working at Scandia Labs investigating making explosives more effective. You gotta be one of the best to land a job like that.

Did you mean Sandia Labs in New Mexico? I had to turn down a very good job offer there last year, not with the labs, just an onsite contractor. Even so, it seemed like a prestigious place to be. The recruiter got to the point of asking what date he should buy the plane tickets for, for my wife and I to go check it out. I asked her to check her calendar, and she finally said she just flat didn't want to live in Albuquerque, so that was that.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I can give you 2 cents worth about gunsmithing. I did it for a long time. Loved it. It was, for me, exactly what you say you want, which is working at something you really like. I have always been passionate about guns, and the opportunity presented itself to attend a gunsmithing school. Of course, I had fooled around with them for years prior to attending, but the formal school taught me many things and skills I did not previously possess, and a different way of looking at problem solving. After the school I did it pretty regularly for 30+ years, so picked up some opinions.

One thing, you'd be well advised to do if you decide to be a gunsmith is to take some business courses! Of course you're going to make money because that's one reason why you're in business, and you have to decide how to manage the business income and expenditures. The occupation is notorious for "nickel and dime-ing" you to death, as there's always another tool to buy to do a particular job. But, maybe the market place and common sense dictates that you not do some of those jobs. I was a general gunsmith, and there wasn't much that I wouldn't tackle, but to some extent that was a mistake. There are so many makes and models of guns with so many problems that working on anything and everything can become a problem, in that a particular tool, for example, one to help replace Remington rifle extractors may be a good investment as there are a lot of Remington rifles out there, but another tool for replacing rivets for a Remington Mod. 11 shotgun's internal recoil pad may not be a good investment as you may not see many of that obsolete shotgun come through your door. There's some guns you shouldn't even bother to work on. How can you charge someone $150 to repair a gun that originally cost $95.50? Tell them to take their RG revolver to another 'smith. You'll need some capital (money) to get into the business, as there are some tools you must have, not to mention a place of business and the expenses associated with that such as electric bill, maybe rent, an FFL, etc.

Today gunsmithing has sort of evolved from the generalist (M.D.) to the specialist (Brain Surgeon). Some fellows are very successful by specializing in building 1911s or AR-15s (seems like these areas are getting crowded), and fewer can work on S&W revolvers anymore, and even fewer on Colts. I'm not knocking this at all--just how it is. Even myself, the general gunsmith, eventually specialized and found 80% of my business, my niche if you will, in re-bluing. I still worked on general repairs, but became selective in what I would work on.

I could go on and on about this, as gunsmithing is just about my favorite subject, but will try to wrap it up. It's an almost mandatory requirement that if you're going to go into business that you take those business courses and find out how successful business works. Next, if you can apprentice yourself to a successful gunsmith, or at the very least "hang out" it will be invaluable. Go to one of the better gunsmithing schools if you are able to do so. The one I attended had two shifts, Day and Swing, and most of the guys that attended the Swing Shift had daytime jobs to pay their tuition.
Be aware that "the times they are a-changing" and guns and gun ownership are under attack and increasingly restricted. Innovations like making guns from stainless steel and black plastic are reducing the need for metal refinishing (bluing) and stock refinishing. To be successful you'll have to adapt.

A last thought-- do good work. Give the customer their money's worth and don't gouge. Get paid what it's worth, but don't take advantage of customer's pocketbooks. Poor work, substandard, or outrageous prices won't be forgotten by the customer, and he'll tell ten other potential customers about his experience in your shop and your reputation will suffer. There is always room in the field for someone who is honest and does good work, and your good reputation will bring you business.

[dangitgriff]

Or...skip all the headaches and open up a liquor store, instead.

[Cole440]

About that degree..?
Burn it or bury it and start over at Mises University in Auburn, Alabama learning Austrian Economics. After America goes bankrupt we will need a few sound monetary advocates to rebuild the banking and financial sectors.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken

I mean, your not wrong...
Hoping I can turn it into a law degree after I get my B.A. so maybe after the apocalypse it could be useful...

[shdwlkr]

Get your engineering degree period.
I worked in civil engineering back then there was a thing called the draft and Vietnam was a big employer. Well I went through basic and military occupation training and then someone found out I knew how to build roads, bridges and got transferred into combat engineering and then became an instructor. Came out and did 25 years of building roads, bridges and designing then my legs got bad so I went into the office where I went back to college got two degrees in computer science and did 10 years in that world and then retired and went back to college again and got my masters in Mental health counseling. The underlying thing here is never give up on schooling and be adaptable as to what direction life takes you and always be looking at what happens when you retire. Best of luck in your quest for a meaningful life career

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Over my lifetime, I've heard a few people say, "Do what you love and you will never work a day in your life."
I don't buy it!
It appears my experience has been similar to others that have posted here in this thread.
>>>I loved a hobby and I attempted to make a career out of it and in the process, I ruined the hobby for myself. I actually did this three different times, with three different hobbies, over my adult life ...I guess I'm a slow learner? I was lucky enough to have never done this with my shooting hobby...and while I was never in the firearms industry, I believe my career experience transfers over.

I will offer one more piece of advice, if you still wish to continue to seek a job in the firearms industry after much of the suggestions in this thread being a bit negative about that, and that is about "getting a job". Since you don't have the type of experience that would suit you to have a head hunter seek you out, you need to forget about the email. The firearms industry is an old school industry, so you need to seek a job the old school way. Written letters/resumes sent via USPS are good, but going to visit the businesses in person is even better. Prepare your Resume as simple as possible. Research the places you apply to, and tailor each cover letter to each place, and how you could fit in. There needs to be some excitement in your letter, as well as your presence, if you visit the business personally.
>>>This may be difficult to hear, but to your potential employers, all you have to offer as a 19 yr old is your excitement.

That's my 2¢

[Todd N.]

Back in the 80's I was in grad school in SoCal. My daily commute took me past the industrial complex where Dornaus & Dixon manufactured the Bren Ten. Being a young and eager gun nut, I spent (too) much time hanging around the place, trying to get a job- any job just to work with guns. All I ever managed was hourly work on a temp basis, unloading trucks and doing other occasional tasks. But I got my foot in the door and I KNEW my Mechanical Engineering degree was going to be my ticket to glory and fun in the gun world!

One day while everybody was on break, Michael Dixon walked outside to chat with the staff. At one point he paused, looked at me and said," Kid, get the **** out of here. The worst thing I've ever done is getting involved in the gun industry. Don't make my mistake."

I left that day and never went back. Dornaus & Dixon closed their doors closed their doors 4 months later. I took a more normal employment path that has kept me with the same employer for 32 years. My job is secure, I have a retirement, I raised a family and my gun hobby has benefited from a solid, guaranteed income.

If you can get into the gun industry, good for you! Get your degree, or more than one, and have a fallback plan because the gun industry in the USA does not have a good prognosis for a healthy future. You could always learn German, move to Austria and go to work for Glock. Or learn Portuguese, move to Brazil, and go to work for Taurus. At least their government and citizenry aren't doing the same dance we are on gun rights.

[Murphy]

Todd N.

It sounds like Michael Dixon may have liked you better than you realize at the time. You got a four a month head start on finding a new job compared to some of the others. Capisce?

Murphy

[Todd N.]

Todd N.

It sounds like Michael Dixon may have liked you better than you realize at the time. You got a four a month head start on finding a new job compared to some of the others. Capisce?

Murphy

I still thank my lucky stars!

[Comfy]

Thank you for the replies,

They have been enlightening. I am glad I can learn from your mistakes!

[dangitgriff]

Hey, CCB...I actually have a serious suggestion:
Design an automated powder-coating machine, clean projectiles in, candy-coated boolits out.
R/Griff

[Littlewolf]

i was an armorer in the Marines (small arms repair). worked on everything from beretta M92 to the 83mm SMAW rocket launcher and the AT4. my first unit in the fleet had 3709 M16A2 service rifles. were it not for medical reasons i was geared up to do another 4 years as a machinist and planned to go gunsmith after that. I've been out for 16 years and have spent every day missing the life. I'm not saying you have to go to the Corps (it's not for everybody) but the rest of the branches have weapons too.

[StrawHat]

While I have only a little background in firearms work, as the assistant range officer I was the armorer for my PD and went though the S&W academy, I did enjoy the work. But, it was only part time at best.

My advice to you I get the best education you need but ALWAYS have a back up plan.

I am 65 years of age and have had 6 careers. The important thing is not how many times you have failed but how any times you are able to restart yourself. My sixth and final (I hope) career is as an independent sharpener. I sharpen knives, scissors etc. for folks and make a good living at it. It has nothing to do with either of my college degrees nor my Maritime engineering license but it is a good career and I look forward to each day.

If you like EE or Political Science, great, how many others are in your class? Will you graduate at th the top of your class? If so, you might get the job you want. In the top 5%? You might get a job in your chosen field. Somewhere else in the class? You want fries with that?

Isn’t fair? No, it is life.

ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP PLAN.

Kevin

[gravel]

if you have a good co-op position, you should keep it. maybe ask to be moved into the CAD/FEM areas.


research civilian USGOV (miltary services) positions a year before you graduate.

as an EE major, take electives that fit the goal:

at least one strength of materials course.
at least one thermodynamics course.
at least one metallurgy course.
at least one CAD class.
you should have controls classes in your EE curriculum. see if the ME dept has a kinematics course you can take.
still have room for another elective? take a second materials/thermo/metallurgy/CAD class.


know some programming language. take specific courses if necessary to show knowledge. it would be nice to know FEM, too.


iirc, USGOV can hire an entry level ME into an entry level EE position. maybe vice versa, too? so apply to other entry level positions, not just EE.

look into the services' arms development centers. Crane and Picatinny for starters.

lastly, have a reasonable story about why you want a job like this. do not sound like a gun nut.

[EDG]

Forget working in the firearms field. There are only a few jobs compared to the population of the US.
For the most part there is relatively little design going on in civilian firearms markets.
Look at the offerings of Remington or Winchester. Most of the models are 50 to 80 years old.

If you have an mechanical engineering or chemical engineering degree there might be a government lab or arsenal job for you but there are far more excellent paying jobs in the various high tech industries.

There are 2 things that make for a good career. You have to make enough money to take care of your family obligations. If you do not make enough money your entire family pays a terrible price even if you are happy. If you plan on a job that does not offer much of a future or pay do not plan on a family. Otherwise you will have kids that you cannot afford to give a good education who will in turn not be able to get into good careers.
Your work should ideally have a good bit of variety. Even if it starts out interesting, 3 to 5 years of most anything over and over will get boring. I once worked for an aerospace company that specialized in small contracts back during the 1970s and 1980s. Back then a small contract was a $1 to $5 million. I saw a wide array of different government projects for countermeasures that boggled my imagination.
It was very interesting because almost every branch of engineering, math and physics was used.
I later worked in semiconductor and then medical implant businesses. The semiconductor equipment business was interesting but most of that work was sent to China. The medical implant business by contrast was a very competitive but boring. The designs did not and could not change much. The human body is not evolving so the materials and designs are slow to change. Few materials are suitable so there are few metal finishing processed etc etc.

[am44mag]

Be very careful about choosing to turn a hobby into a career. It does not take much to turn something you love into a job that you want nothing to do with when you get home. I woodwork as a hobby and have been doing so for about a decade and a half. It didn't take too long to learn that building what someone else wants is nowhere near as fun as doing your own thing. In fact, it sucked the fun out of the hobby to a large degree. I'm much pickier about what I do now, and I enjoy my hobby more too.

When I was first going to college, my plan was to get a degree in Mechanical Engineering and go into exactly what you want to do. There was a lot of reasons why I ultimately chose a different path, but not wanting to ruin my passion for firearms was one of them.

I would keep firearms a hobby, and just go into a career that pays well enough for me to thoroughly enjoy that hobby.

If you really want to get into firearms, maybe try being a gun writer on the side. As far as the firearm industry goes, that's probably one of the easier and more flexible careers to get into. Especially since many places are online only now. Don't try to do it as a job, at least not at first. Just write a few things, see if you can get someone to buy and publish them on their site. There no risk other than a bit of your time and effort. Who knows, you might get good enough that you become one of those writers who gets to travel around the country, go to SHOT shows, and shoot cool guns for a living.

[yeahbub]

. . . the best way to stop enjoying your hobby is to make it your life work. . . . Amen!

I had the same fire for a shooting related career for some years, but was dissuaded by talking to the people in the industry, who were perennially trying to find better ways to make ends meet without much success and the gun store employees who were commonly looking for a job that pays a decent wage on the side. One manufacturing fellow I talked to said there's a great deal of turnover in the industry, but most get a job with a competing company because there are a limited number of seats in an inherently limited industry which is always trying hard to expand market share. An idea I had was to work a career that pays decently and develop my hobby-related ideas on my own.

[jonp]

Soon after I retired one of my VA Tech cadet company classmates who went on to command an infantry battalion was telling me how hard it had gotten since Obama's administration because most of the true war fighters were purged and most O6 and above who were left were mostly "blow dried, fake tanned, liars." He went on to say how hard it is to compete against liars

Daughter is still in from before Obama. She can attest to the truth in this. The Officer Corp about O4 and Senior NCO's have learned how to play the political game to get ahead. Obama did a real number on the institutional memory of our military and it may take decades to recover if ever.

[Outpost75]

Soon after I retired one of my VA Tech cadet company classmates who went on to command an infantry battalion was telling me how hard it had gotten since Obama's administration because most of the true war fighters were purged and most O6 and above who were left were mostly "blow dried, fake tanned, liars." He went on to say how hard it is to compete against liars

Daughter is still in from before Obama. She can attest to the truth in this. The Officer Corp about O4 and Senior NCO's have learned how to play the political game to get ahead. Obama did a real number on the institutional memory of our military and it may take decades to recover if ever.

Thanks for the independent validation. Our men will fight with heroism and honor, as they always do. That alone does not yield victory. Life in combat arms business doesn't require a refined persona, but blunt honesty and the iron will to do what is required even when that involves grave personal consequences when going against conventional wisdom. Veterans understand this. Most of America doesn't. This situation is made worse by things like the Department of Homeland Security branding veterans as a domestic threat because they have militarily useful skills and may not support the direction of the current administration. That declaration is more insidious than people might think, because it is motivated by a desire by the left to control those veterans who still take seriously their oath to defend the Constitution. It also drives much of what we've seen in terms of personnel drawdown and the evolving current politics. Just look at the small percentage of General Officers cashiered in 18 years of war without victory and you have the answer...Especially when compared to the numbers during WWII where commanders were relieved regularly, and without prejudice.

[waksupi]

I worked for three gun companies. Don't expect to make much money.
There aren't many true custom shops anymore, as the younger generation seem enamoured with black guns now. Learning to actually build guns takes a long time. I've been at it for 40 years, and learn something new every time I talk to other builders.
One thing that happened was, when I was working for others, my shooting time really dropped, except for one company where we test fired every rifle out the doors. Those jobs are rare.
Setting up for doing the business yourself is quite expensive. I usually jobbed out machining processes, and checkering once my eyes went bad and arthritis set in.
You don't learn to build a $15-20,000 rifle overnight. I'm not familiar with the powder development end of the business, but as others have said, such jobs would be as rare as hen's teeth. Good luck in your endeavors, but have a fall back plan.

[akajun]

Continue with your engineering degree, study electrical , mechanical, automation. Next start shooting competitions and meeting people in the industry.

[Ickisrulz]

I have no idea what the demand is, but there aren't too many companies producing swaging equipment.

Lots of guys have their own internet gun channels on Youtube or blogs: Mr. Gunsgear, Hickok45, Gunblast, to name a few.

[Dimner]

Hey, just figured I would chime in as I am also 19 and looking for internships and such. I am a political science major focusing on American Politics and Public Law so we are going different directions, but just remember, it will all work out! Best of luck to you friend! Hopefully some day when I purchase a new firearm it will have your stamp of approval!
Cole


About that degree..?
Burn it or bury it and start over at Mises University in Auburn, Alabama learning Austrian Economics. After America goes bankrupt we will need a few sound monetary advocates to rebuild the banking and financial sectors.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken

Ashamed to see this 2nd quote. It's attitudes like this that mean we will never be able to change anything politically in this country.

1st, telling someone to burn their hard work is just rude.

2nd, if we don't have young people go into American Politics and/or Public law, how is anything ever going to change? Complaining about it on an internet forum isn't going to do it. This young person has far more opportunity to make changes than us on this forum with our keyboards and internet connections.

Don't discourage young people, encourage them, teach them values, let them loose in the system with those values... repeat this process until you have the change. I have two children that I have molded into sensible young people with the values and ideas that I want to see in our future generations and government. Do this with your children and grandchildren.... or just go back to complaining on the interwebs...

[lightman]

CandyCoatedBoolits,

I would encourage you to continue your Engineering degree. You might be able to turn an engineering background into a decent paying job in the firearms industry but its not very likely. I think you are on the right track sending inquirys out to the powder manufactures, the bullet companies, maybe even to the firearms manufactures.

We have a Remington plant in our area and its known as one of the better paying jobs. A decent wage and some benefits. There are production jobs, maintenance jobs, ect. Apparently the employees are discouraged from talking very much. As a reloader, I have tried to engage a few of them in conversation, mostly unsuccessfully. I'm pretty sure that they make their own brass and bullets but I'm unsure about powder and primers. They have a lab and they test ammo.

Good Luck to you.

[OutHuntn84]

Here is my best advice based on 15 years of experience getting people jobs.
Get off the computer, exit the class room and go talk to your future employers. Find out what degrees, experience and opportunities they will be looking for in the upcoming year. Then see if those jobs can afford you the life style you want. Once you narrow down what your future employers want, you can start working towards it. After you figure that out and as soon as you can start working for them. Internships, part time, scrubbing a toilet, it doesn't matter get your foot in the door. There are state and federal funds available for paid internships at little to no cost to the employer.
Once you show that kind of leg work and dedication to peruse a job like that; you're a shoe in.
Employers are hard pressed to find good people with the skills and work ethics they want. You give them the opportunity to mold you to their spec and most reasonable employers will jump at the chance.
Also don't limit yourself to name brand manufacturers. Look for the small to mid sized companies that support the gun industry. Almost everything is subbed out to someone; find out who they are.

[waksupi]

CandyCoatedBoolits,

I would encourage you to continue your Engineering degree. You might be able to turn an engineering background into a decent paying job in the firearms industry but its not very likely. I think you are on the right track sending inquirys out to the powder manufactures, the bullet companies, maybe even to the firearms manufactures.

We have a Remington plant in our area and its known as one of the better paying jobs. A decent wage and some benefits. There are production jobs, maintenance jobs, ect. Apparently the employees are discouraged from talking very much. As a reloader, I have tried to engage a few of them in conversation, mostly unsuccessfully. I'm pretty sure that they make their own brass and bullets but I'm unsure about powder and primers. They have a lab and they test ammo.

Good Luck to you.

One reason they may have not had much to say, they may have not known much. When I worked for a company doing AK47 compliance conversions, I was the ONLY real gun guy in the shop. It was a job for trained monkeys, and that was what was working there. They had no firearms problem solving skills whatsoever. I was never so happy to be laid off of a job in my life.

[dangitgriff]

Ashamed to see this 2nd quote. It's attitudes like this that mean we will never be able to change anything politically in this country.

1st, telling someone to burn their hard work is just rude.

2nd, if we don't have young people go into American Politics and/or Public law, how is anything ever going to change? Complaining about it on an internet forum isn't going to do it. This young person has far more opportunity to make changes than us on this forum with our keyboards and internet connections.

Don't discourage young people, encourage them, teach them values, let them loose in the system with those values... repeat this process until you have the change. I have two children that I have molded into sensible young people with the values and ideas that I want to see in our future generations and government. Do this with your children and grandchildren.... or just go back to complaining on the interwebs...

1st, a political science degree is as useless as teats on a bull. A STEM degree will ensure a good income will be derived from hard work, not mulcted from the taxpayers via political diktat.
2nd, Chelsea Clinton, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, et al, are hell-bent on using the political process to steer us into full-blown socialism, and they will get there with the help of the Congress in its entirety, not to mention the OP’s generation of voters, who now comprise the largest voting bloc in the United States. Don’t become politicians with political science degrees and psychopathic tendencies to rule the world. Socialism killed over 100 million people in the 20th century, so, yeah, that’s a hard NO.
The best values to teach our young generation today are that government is not your friend, so avoid the machinery of government at all costs and make every effort to reduce the size and scope of government; audit and end the Federal Reserve; and focus on individual success in spite of the government interventionist policies that stand in every American’s way.
Also, study Austrian economics and reject modern monetary theory if you want to build the kind of wealth you will be able to pass down to succeeding generations, which will be much easier as soon as the Federal Reserve is shut down for good.
R/Griff

[Outpost75]

A picture is worth 1000 words:

255230

On September 29, 1959 Russia’s (USSR’s) Premier Khrushchev delivered his message to the UN; … his prediction for America. TV coverage of him banging his shoe on the podium was carried on all of the network news broadcasts. At that time, the word ‘communism’ was feared throughout our nation.

THIS FOLLOWING WAS HIS ENTIRE QUOTE:

"Your children's children will live under communism, You Americans are so gullible No, you won't accept communism outright; but we will keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you will finally wake up and find you already have Communism. We will not have to fight you; We will so weaken your economy, until you will fall like overripe fruit into our hands." "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

Consider this when you listen to the rhetoric of the Democrat presidential candidates.
Historically socialism leads to Communism. So, how do you create a Socialistic State?

History teaches that there are 8 levels of control; read the following recipe:

1) Healthcare - Control healthcare and you control the people.

2) Poverty - Increase the poverty level as high as possible, because poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them.

3) Debt - Increase the public debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control - Remove the ability of dissenters to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state without resistance.

5) Welfare - Take control of every aspect (food, housing, income) of their lives because that will make them fully dependent on the government.

6) Education - Take control of what people read and listen to, and take control of what children are taught in school.

7) Religion - Remove the belief in God from the Government and schools because the people need to believe in ONLY the government knowing what is best for the people.

8) Class Warfare - Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. Eliminate the middle class. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to tax the wealthy with the support of the poor

This is exactly today’s Democrat agenda espoused by the current candidates for President!

May God bless you and your Family richly with the foresight and freedom to make correct decisions for/with them!

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[MT Gianni]

The above deserves a like.

[Outpost75]

The above deserves a like.

Thanks.

I censored some less politically correct thumbnails I may have sent, but the humorous ones still get the message across...

[Iowa Fox]

Reading this thread certainly makes me glad I'm retired.

Just a couple things
First, complete your education.
Second, without a mentor its hard to go anyplace this day and age.

[RU shooter]

I can't add much to what's been said already but I will say get a job for yourself or working a company providing goods or services that people will always want and need not what is the newest trend or fad product