Vaquero or Uberti clone?

[Idaho45guy]

I have a Ruger Bisley 5.5" in .45 Colt for woods carry and a Cimarron Arms 1873 Peacemaker Cavalry model in .45 Colt with the 7.5" barrel for plinking. Bought a new leather western rig while down in Mexico and it doesn't fit either pistol. The Peacemaker fits, but the barrel is too long. The Ruger sort of fits, but is too fat due to being built like a tank.

So, what better reason to buy a new gun?

The Peacemaker fit and finish is superb, but I only use plinking loads due to strength concerns. If I get another pistol, I would like to have it be able to handle some warmer loads. Not necessarily Ruger-only loads, but at least something adequate for carrying on the trail for critters.

So a Peacemaker patterned frame and cylinder with some ability to handle warmer loads with a 5" barrel or so would be perfect.

Would the Ruger Vaquero be better suited to warmer loads than say the Uberti Cattleman II?

[Buzz Krumhunger]

Ruger’s “New Vaquero” fits in holsters made for Colt and Colt clone revolvers, and I think the Ruger is probably stronger than the Colts and Italian copies. But the New Vaquero shouldn’t be used with the “Ruger only” hot loads, as I understand it.

[DougGuy]

Medium framed 45 caliber Rugers are safe to 45 ACP+P pressures of 23kpsi, which we commonly call "tier 2" levels, the Uberti is pretty much a Colt clone, with better more modern steel which makes it able to handle more than the 14kpsi of standard pressure 45 Colt loads, but I would NOT subject it to tier 2 pressures.

I would suggest hunting down a medium framed Vaquero (3 digit prefix serial number) with the color case frame. They are around, you can find them from time to time. 4 5/8" or 5 1/2" either one would probably scratch your itch for a new sixgun!

[Idaho45guy]

Medium framed 45 caliber Rugers are safe to 45 ACP+P pressures of 23kpsi, which we commonly call "tier 2" levels, the Uberti is pretty much a Colt clone, with better more modern steel which makes it able to handle more than the 14kpsi of standard pressure 45 Colt loads, but I would NOT subject it to tier 2 pressures.

I would suggest hunting down a medium framed Vaquero (3 digit prefix serial number) with the color case frame. They are around, you can find them from time to time. 4 5/8" or 5 1/2" either one would probably scratch your itch for a new sixgun!

Thanks! You are the man!

[DougGuy]

Now... If you have a little extra scratch to toss at that itch, there are some spectacular eye catching Vaquero BT editions, courtesy Bobby Tyler gun works doing their eye popping case color on a limited run of guns for Ruger. I think this may be a Talo exclusive, but they certainly stand out with their extraordinary case colors, and the special hammer fitted to them. Quite a few of these on GB right now. Not bad for under a grand!

[Idaho45guy]

I did a search on Gunbroker and there was only one of the case colored used Vaqueros. Photos show it to be pretty beat up and they still wanted $575. I can get a brand new Uberti El Patron for $515. Oh well, no hurry. May have to use my gun fund for a Hellcat if the WA governor pushes through his new gun control regs...

[Idaho45guy]

Now... If you have a little extra scratch to toss at that itch, there are some spectacular eye catching Vaquero BT editions, courtesy Bobby Tyler gun works doing their eye popping case color on a limited run of guns for Ruger. I think this may be a Talo exclusive, but they certainly stand out with their extraordinary case colors, and the special hammer fitted to them. Quite a few of these on GB right now. Not bad for under a grand!

That is a beautiful gun! Just a little too rich for my blood.

[Todd N.]

Now... If you have a little extra scratch to toss at that itch, there are some spectacular eye catching Vaquero BT editions, courtesy Bobby Tyler gun works doing their eye popping case color on a limited run of guns for Ruger. I think this may be a Talo exclusive, but they certainly stand out with their extraordinary case colors, and the special hammer fitted to them. Quite a few of these on GB right now. Not bad for under a grand!

Didn't Turnbull do a Bisley Vaquero a few years ago? Talk about scratching an itch!

[DougGuy]

I did a search on Gunbroker and there was only one of the case colored used Vaqueros. Photos show it to be pretty beat up and they still wanted $575. I can get a brand new Uberti El Patron for $515. Oh well, no hurry. May have to use my gun fund for a Hellcat if the WA governor pushes through his new gun control regs...

That's a large frame Vaquero too, two digit prefix. The one to get is the medium framed one, three digit prefix. I missed a NIB one on GB once, I was looking right at it, reading the label on the end of the box trying to figure out if it was really what I was looking at, getting ready to click the BIN, and someone else clicked on it and it was gone.

Edit: GB has this one RUGER NEW VAQUERO .45 COLT 2001ZH-41255-SA used, 5 1/2" blue/color case you might want to talk with the seller, he is asking a bit much for it, I doubt it will sell at what his starting bid is, but these are increasingly hard to find and prices reflect demand.

[M-Tecs]

The Uberti Cattleman II is not listed with a 45 ACP conversion cylinder. Cimarron lists a couple so they are claiming the 45 ACP cylinders are good for 23K.

https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/products/revolvers/single-actions/model-p-1873-1896/model-p-1.html?caliber=255

[Love Life]

Either one will work. A 255 gr bullet at 850-950 FPS will do all you need. I have a new vaquero and, A Uberti 1873, and a Cimarron. I’d pick the Colt clone over the new Vaquero.

Ruger new vaquero in the top picture.

255001
255002

The Ruger is the top gun in the bottom picture, cimarron new sheriff in the middle, and a Colt SAA on the bottom.


Load it full and have fun!!

255003

[bigted]

Yepper ... New model Vaquero in 4-5/8ths will handle any task needed for a 45 Colt round to do.

Go back to the old black powder loads and see that Colt built this for the military desire to be able to go thru a horse and kill or wound an Indian riding and slinging arrows from under the neck of their horses. Any question of the power developed with the 255 grain bullet over 40 grains of compressed 3Fg black powder ... feller owes themself the education of loading and shooting a cylinder full of them to get the full impact ( pun intended ) of the power of this round developed with those ANTIQUE loads.

A 255 grain boolit trotting along at around 800 FPS is a do all round with ease of shooting and easy on the revolvers. No "magnum-a-fication needed for these old dandy's.

If more power is required ... the 44 Mag will do but for plain ol power and get-er-done ... 45 Colt is your animule in its original weight and speed ... 8.5 grains Unique powder under a 250 ish boolit will get er done!

[35 Whelen]

I had a 4 5/8" New Vaquero in 45 Colt several years ago. Never again. The cylinder throats were too small and it had the well known thread choke in the barrel that I thought I'd never get lapped out. Even after these two problems were corrected, it still never shot as good as my Uberti's, and compared to them, was just clunky, somehow nearly a 1/4 lb. heavier than a like Uberti. Definitely built like a tank, looked like a tank, and felt like a tank.


The Uberti Cattleman II is not listed with a 45 ACP conversion cylinder. Cimarron lists a couple so they are claiming the 45 ACP cylinders are good for 23K.

https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/products/revolvers/single-actions/model-p-1873-1896/model-p-1.html?caliber=255

This. 45 ACP cylinders have been/are available for Uberti revolvers, and they're good for +P ammunition which of course means they're proofed at nearly 30,000 psi, although I wouldn't dream of using loads near that heavy.

I've owned a 4 3/4" Uberti Frisco in 45 Colt now for a couple of years and other than installing a wire-type bolt/trigger spring and cleaning up the forcing cone, it was good to go right out of the box, and actually shot no better after doing these two things. Since I planned on hunting with it I tested a variety of loads, including a couple of Tier II loads.

The first was a 265 gr. SWC from an RCBS 45-255-SWC mold. Using AA#7 I loaded it to almost 1050 fps, and it was quite accurate-

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/RCBS%20Load_zpst9npbvcf.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/RCBS%20Load_zpst9npbvcf.jpg.html)

Ultimately for a hunting load/bullet I settled on one cast from the RCBS 45-270-SAA mould. Loaded with Power Pistol this is a Tier II load and shoots very, very well-

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2075%20yds%2045-270%20edited_zpsc5kix4z8.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2075%20yds%2045-270%20edited_zpsc5kix4z8.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2075%20yds%2045-270%209-9-2018_zps00czqpf1.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/Frisco%2075%20yds%2045-270%209-9-2018_zps00czqpf1.jpg.html)

I didn't use this revolver and load last season, but did this season on my annual meat buck. He was 41 yds. out, the bullet struck about 1/3 of the way up, just behind his left shoulder, fractured a rib, passed through the lungs, exited the far side and bounced of across the pasture.

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Buck%20and%20revolver%20close_zpsxkonvn5q.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/Buck%20and%20revolver%20close_zpsxkonvn5q.jpg.html )

These two loads are hunting-only loads, so they're fired for occasional practice and when hunting. For plinking/practice I prefer a load of 6.5 grs. of either Red Dot or 700-X and a 250-255 gr. cast bullet. This load pretty much duplicates the original and shoots quite well.

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/250%20gr%20RNFP%2075%20yds_zpsaibbgrty.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco/250%20gr%20RNFP%2075%20yds_zpsaibbgrty.jpg.html)

It's easy to see that the Uberti is extremely well fitted. And FWIW, y'all don't judge me for the ugly ring around the cylinder...this was a display model from gun shop in Louisiana where it had obviously been mishandled by a few mouth-breathers!

35W

[bigted]

35 ... good lookin revolver! Good shooting with it also.

I still have my New Model Vaquero and feel lucky with it. Cylinder mouth's are .4525 and the barrel is .443/.4515. It is a shooter but I fitted a dragoon style super grip frame and fumbled round till I discovered a spot on the indexing hand on the bottom that hit the TG when cocking ... enough that till I ground it to clear it would lock it up tight.

I like the Uberti's a lot and have several in cap n ball's that I find up to the highest standards.

Did not know that their ACP cylinders were graded to +P pressures. That says a bunch about their certainty with the 73 model revolvers that they fit.

I have a second gen Colt that I certainly would never shoot 30K rounds of any kind in.

[35 Whelen]

35 ... good lookin revolver! Good shooting with it also.

I still have my New Model Vaquero and feel lucky with it. Cylinder mouth's are .4525 and the barrel is .443/.4515. It is a shooter but I fitted a dragoon style super grip frame and fumbled round till I discovered a spot on the indexing hand on the bottom that hit the TG when cocking ... enough that till I ground it to clear it would lock it up tight.

I like the Uberti's a lot and have several in cap n ball's that I find up to the highest standards.

Did not know that their ACP cylinders were graded to +P pressures. That says a bunch about their certainty with the 73 model revolvers that they fit.

I have a second gen Colt that I certainly would never shoot 30K rounds of any kind in.

Uberti's cylinders are just about dimensionally identical to those of the Ruger Flat Tops and New Vaquero's-

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Flat%20Top%20Blackhawk%20Cylinder%20Diameter%20red _zpszbz6cbwy.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Flat%20Top%20Blackhawk%20Cylinder%20Diameter%20red _zpszbz6cbwy.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco%20Cylinder%20diameter%20red_zpszje sbjno.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Uberti%20Frisco%20Cylinder%20diameter%20red_zpszje sbjno.jpg.html)

Additionally Uberti's manuals state- NEVER use anything other than new cartridges that have been commercially loaded in accordance with SAAMI or C.I.P. standards.
, and of course 45 ACP +P @23,000 psi falls into that category.

35W

[M-Tecs]

Did not know that their ACP cylinders were graded to +P pressures. That says a bunch about their certainty with the 73 model revolvers that they fit.

.

SAAMI has made the standard 45 ACP and the standard 38 Special obsolete. In the US any 38 Special or 45 ACP are proof tested a +P.

SAAMI proof specs. page 180 - 189. *note in the case of the 38 Special and the 45 ACP SAAMI lists the pressure for standard 38 Spec and 45 ACP as obsolete. They use the higher +P pressure.
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.3-CFP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

[Outpost75]

CIP Pressures in Bar, convert to psi multiply Bar by 14.5038

Caliber____________Max Sample Avg___Max. Indiv.______Proof Pressure

.38 Special Std._____1200____________1380__________1560

.38 Spl. +P_________1500____________1725__________1950

.357 Mag.__________3000____________1725__________3900

.44-40 Win_________1100____________1265__________1375

.45 Colt___________1100____________1265__________1430

[DougGuy]

Measuring the OD of a cylinder with calipers is totally irrelevant as a comparison in determining strength from one cylinder to another. The weak point is under the bolt cuppet which tends to be VERY thin in both models, and also the web thickness between chambers which is often thinner than the wall thickness of the cylinder on the OD.

[Love Life]

The Peacemaker fit and finish is superb, but I only use plinking loads due to strength concerns. If I get another pistol, I would like to have it be able to handle some warmer loads. Not necessarily Ruger-only loads, but at least something adequate for carrying on the trail for critters.

So a Peacemaker patterned frame and cylinder with some ability to handle warmer loads with a 5" barrel or so would be perfect.

Would the Ruger Vaquero be better suited to warmer loads than say the Uberti Cattleman II?

How warm do you want to go? 35-37 gr of Goex OE 2f will get your attention.

[35 Whelen]

Measuring the OD of a cylinder with calipers is totally irrelevant as a comparison in determining strength from one cylinder to another. The weak point is under the bolt cuppet which tends to be VERY thin in both models, and also the web thickness between chambers which is often thinner than the wall thickness of the cylinder on the OD.

Yeah....sometimes one must infer. I think most of us here are intelligent enough to understand that the diameter of the cylinder in and of itself isn't an indication of cylinder strength. However...

I removed the .44 Special cylinders from my Flat Top Blackhawk and one oy my Uberti's and took some measurements. In both cylinders the distances from the center of axis of the base pin to the center of the chambers is identical. As pictured above, the Uberti's cylinder is about .003" smaller in diameter than that of the Ruger. But ironically, the Ruger's bolt notch was just about .003" deeper than that of the Uberti. So the bottom line is the chamber wall thicknesses are for all practical purposes the same in the Ruger and the Uberti.

35W

[kaiser]

I've owned a .45 Colt "flat top" Vaquero that I had to have the cylinder rebored because it was out of specs. I sent it down the road because it was heavy and not fun to shoot with .44mag level loads. Next I purchased a Uberti made Beretta Stampede and found it not only balanced better (to me) than the Ruger and was more accurate with a cylinder where all 6 cylinders were bored .4525.

I later bought a "New model" (smaller frame) Ruger Vaquero and found it much like the Uberti in size and accuracy; however, I found that I really didn't care for the difference in unlocking the cylinder for loading and unloading that I had come accustom to in the Uberti (Colt clone). While the New Vaquero might take a small amount more pressure, as has been pointed out, the "clones" have more than enough power to do any job needed done (IMHO). One area worth checking is the length of the cylinder, for I also have a Uberti 1875 Outlaw that I cannot load a 45-270 cast bullet to recommended COAL - too short (the 1873 Uberti is OK).