Saw an amazing gun/shooter today

[kens]

I went out to my local range today, the 500 yard line. I am a cast boolit kind of guy, and the 500 yard line is mostly taken over by the Ruger RPR/6.5creedmoor guys.
Today everybody there has any one of the modern AR/15,,,AR10 ,,,AR/bolt action upper style rifles.
One guy had a modern bolt action with a IORValdota or Nightforce scope, and some handload boolits. .308win.
He went to shoot and he say leave your ears out (earplugs). He was supressed and subsonic. He had boolits not bullets.
I started talking to him about twist rate, and he say 1:10".
I was very much surprised as he clanged the dinger at 300yards, with cast boolit in a modern .308 with a fast twist.
He did say his speed was 1050fps subsonic. I accepted his accuracy from 10 twist at that low velocity.
However, he cranked up his scope xxmils elevation and took 1 round at the next gong at 400yards. clang!!
Then he cranked up his scope xxmils elevation and took 1 round at the 500yard gong. clang!!!
Then he cranked his scope back to some form of Zero to put the gun away.
Another guy showed up, started BS'ing talking, the guy takes the gun back, cranks in some more elevation and gives the gun to the new guy shown up.
Gives him 1 round and ...clang!! the 500 yard gong.
I was most impressed.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

That is impressive. Especially the repeatable part with a different shooter.

[kens]

That is impressive. Especially the repeatable part with a different shooter.

yes, and the guy took attention to me when I asked if that was a 'Lee' mold.
it had that Lee slanted/round nose profile. I think it was the c309-160 mold it had a short looking nose.
I inquired about gas checks and he say no. He was afraid of losing gas check in the supressor.
So, he had a Lee c309-160RN launching it without gas check.
Imagine what he could do with a proper plain based boolit.??

[Conditor22]

It would be interesting to know what was "under the hood"

[kens]

he say 7gr trail boss

[trapper9260]

This is interesting for how he have it all work .

[jonp]

7gr Trail Boss is an interesting thing for what he was doing

[charlie b]

How big was the gong?

I shoot cast in my .308 quite a bit, also a 10 twist. Right now my favorite bullet is the Lee 180. Fast loads are around 2000fps. Plinker stuff is 1100 or a bit slower (Blue Dot).

I reserve the 'slow' stuff for 100 and 200yd since the wind is usually blowing a bit. The load is good for 1 to 2 MOA depending on the bullets. I usually load up a bunch of reject bullets as plinkers so close to MOA with them is kinda cool. With selected, matched bullets and no wind I have shot some 0.5 groups at 100yd.

The 'fast' stuff is more accurate on a regular basis. These will do close to MOA at 300yd. I usually do not 'use up' a space on the 1000yd range but one of these days will do that and see if I can dope the wind well enough to get a decent group at 600yd.

Even the 'fast' bullets are affected by the wind a lot more than jacketed. That is probably the biggest problem when shooting cast bullets at the mid ranges.

If you have not tried it I encourage you to do so. It is not rocket science and, yes, even the cheap Lee molds turn out good bullets if you cast them well and cull out the bad ones. The key is to size to your groove dia and if a nose ride the forward portion has to fit the bore.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a Lee 309-190 gc bullet mould I bought in 1978 right after I started casting. It makes very accurate boolits on par with 311299 and 314299 Lyman moulds I also have. I also have a 309-150 plain base mould that makes decent boolits for the .30-30.

Randy

[reddog81]

How big was the gong?.

That's what I was wondering. Anything going 1050 at the muzzle starts to drop like a rock around 500 yards. Even a 20 FPS change in velocity from shot to shot will move the POI 2 feet. A slight change in wind can move the bullet over half a foot. To hit a torso sized target takes a lot of skill and a fair amount of luck with those parameters.

[waco]

Here is a video of me shooting the NOE 30xcb in my 10 twist .308 at over 2600fps
the steel plate is 10 1/2" in diameter and distance is 500 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9VDouNYi7A&t=1s

[Phlier]

Here is a video of me shooting the NOE 30xcb in my 10 twist .308 at over 2600fps
the steel plate is 10 1/2" in diameter and distance is 500 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9VDouNYi7A&t=1s

Great video, and a new subscriber. Good stuff.

[waco]

Great video, and a new subscriber. Good stuff.

Well thank you!

[kens]

Here is a video of me shooting the NOE 30xcb in my 10 twist .308 at over 2600fps
the steel plate is 10 1/2" in diameter and distance is 500 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9VDouNYi7A&t=1s

I have shot enough cast that I have doubts about a good group @ 2600 in a 10 twist. I say because every rifle I tried with a twist like that group fell apart in the mid-2000's.
Please do not try to convince me otherwise.
Also, the OP posted that the guy fired 1 round each at 300, 400, 500 yards and adjusted the scope at each range. 3 shots=3hits.
No sighters, no warm ups, no spotter.
Then he adjusted the scope back to a zero, then re-adjusted the scope to 500yd and handed the rifle to someone else, and again, 1 shot=1hit.
Waco, sorry, you didnt do that.
Sorry

[charlie b]

Well, I have a 2.3" group at 200yd with the Lee bullets, powder coated that were going 2400fps at the muzzle. I did not try faster just cause that is not what I am looking for.

Lubed bullets I also have trouble going over 2100fps.

The shooting by that gent is good given the low velocity. He must know that load well and be able to read wind accurately.
Even a 10" gong at 500 is hard with those slow loads.

[waco]

I have shot enough cast that I have doubts about a good group @ 2600 in a 10 twist. I say because every rifle I tried with a twist like that group fell apart in the mid-2000's.
Please do not try to convince me otherwise.
Also, the OP posted that the guy fired 1 round each at 300, 400, 500 yards and adjusted the scope at each range. 3 shots=3hits.
No sighters, no warm ups, no spotter.
Then he adjusted the scope back to a zero, then re-adjusted the scope to 500yd and handed the rifle to someone else, and again, 1 shot=1hit.
Waco, sorry, you didnt do that.
Sorry

So maybe you are not doing something right? Ever consider that? You take a guys word on what he did and then I show you proof of what I did on video. One round huh?. Okay. Let's see five shot groups...like I did.

[kens]

Waco,
Please refrain from posting anymore on this thread, this post I started for others to share in, please dont attempt to take it over.
Do not insinuate I didnt do something right, I was a witness.
Do not insinuate I took the guys word, I was a witness.
You are the one that missed the point, the point is the repeatability of the man's setup.
especially at such a low velocity. the elevation hold over was very very extreme. And he repeated that with scope adjustments, no spotter, no sighters.

[Hamish]

Kens,

Was first going to joke about letting the cat out of the bag about long range accuracy very easily attainable with cast at subsonic velocities.

I'm rather disappointed of your refusal to believe that good accuracy can be had above 2600fps. in a 1/10" twist .30. Many have done it here.

And many have quit posting of their results because of being met with the type of reaction you gave Waco. Many have left the forum. I've personally witnessed supra 2600fps (close to 3K) accuracy out to just over 250Y in .22, .30, and .35 calibers, by more than one rifle, by more than one person. Those people tired of all the muck thrown and gave up on trying to spread the word.

More is possible than many think.

I will NOT be posting further on this, but for anyone reading this who may become interested, investigate copper enriched alloys and MML+.

[quilbilly]

That is the same Lee boolit my Rem 308 bolt gun likes but not my Mossberg 308 bolt gun which prefers heavier, slower boolits. Both have the same twist. Every barrel has a personality it would seem.

[cupajoe]

Self-moderating are we? Where's that ignore button, there it is.

[kens]

I apologize to all if my remarks were taken as rude or coarse.
My OP is about subsonic (cast) loads at long range.
High velocity was not included in the OP.
would anyone with more experience than me please duplicate the shooting as in the OP. make a video of it, please.
Here is the shooting task as requested:
No sighters and no spotters allowed at any time nor any range.
Subsonic cast boolit only,
boolit weight not to exceed 160gr
not to exceed 1050fps at muzzle,
only 4 rounds of ammo, no more.
Shoot 1 round , not to exceed 1050fps at muzzle, at 300yd and clang the gong. 1 round=1gong
Crank in 100yd worth of elevation in your sight and take 1 more of the same ammo and hit , 1round=1gong.
No sighter and no spotters allowed.
Crank in another 100yd worth of elevation in your sight and 1 more of same ammo and hit, 1 round=1gong.
no sighters.
Crank your sight back to 100yard zero, put the rifle down.
Again pick up rifle, crank in 500yard worth of elevation and hand the gun to a stranger and give him 1 round of that 1050fps ammo, and the stranger hit, 1 round=1gong.
Please send me the video.
Thanks.
Sorry for any crude remarks.

[waco]

That is indeed impressive shooting. I have no doubt the shooter knows his rifle and load well. Doing this subsonic May have some benefits. Some Boolit styles do not like the transition from super to subsonic. This is a problem I ran into. I had to keep them moving at a pretty fast pace. I’ve seen guys run sub 300blk loads out to 500.
No hard feelings here. I should have worded my response better.
Waco.

[Huvius]

Not doubting your account but in thinking about this, I came up with a couple questions about what you witnessed.
1050fps is probably what a 7gr load of TB would generate but that is way below the recommended starting load from Hodgdon - maybe a bit scary - don't know. Anybody load that much below TB recommendations before?
How long did the bullet flight take in your opinion?
500yds takes about two full seconds at a MV of 1050. Did it seem that long to you?
Obviously, the guy is quite a marksman but just may have been pulling your chain on the load. You know how some folks are...

[kens]

it was a really slow time of flight.
and he had a huge amount of elevation.

[dtknowles]

How big were the gongs? How much range time with this load did the shooter have on previous days? I am assuming this shooting was from a bench or prone. I don't have a 500 yard range but going from 100 to 200 yards with subsonic .22 LR and never missing the gong is not hard. I don't even have to crank in elevation just use the mil-dots. What were the winds like. Can't do it on a windy day. Our gongs are 12" x 8" rectangles, just hold 4 dots over the top of the gong at 200 yards. ping. Yah got 4 moa of windage and 6 moa of elevation, if you can shoot 3 moa groups how can you miss.

I have never shot at a range with 500 yard gongs but I bet they are bigger than 12 x 8.

I remember testing my 22 for drop at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards for small bore hunters pistol silhouette comps. I had the number of clicks of elevation I needed to adjust for each stage. Chickens, pigs, turkeys and rams. I had to shoot groups offhand for each distance because the drop was different offhand than from the bench.

I am not saying that the shooter was not awesome, just saying that the ballistics is repeatable and if your scope isn't it belongs in the trash. Yeah, no sighters that day but I bet a lot of practice other days.

I was at the range last week and I took out my revolver and hit the gong at 100 yards with the first shot. Offhand, iron sights. How is that. It is an 8 moa target the gun will shoot 2 moa groups and I remember the sight picture that was hitting the gong the last time I was shooting. I can hold about 6 moa offhand, the gun is heavy and the trigger is light. It is a Dan Wesson Super Mag in 357 Maximum. If you guns and shooting are not repeatable then we know what you need to work on, consistency.

Tim

[dtknowles]

Actually, I try the same thing with a couple guns I own. Take them to the range and shoot the 100 yard gong, offhand, cold gun. Really the gong is big and if I can't hit that big gong something is wrong. I am talking my 30-30, my 30-06 and the Dan Wesson. I used to have a 300 yard range and then it was a deer target and field positions, sitting, kneeling, crossed sticks. No, I don't think I can shoot a deer at 300 yards offhand, I would not try.

That slow subsonic bullet needs to be used with a range finder and some good wind dope. Wind flags and known ranges is cheating. :-)

Tim

[kens]

this group of guys that was there typically go for the smallest gongs. I cant verify exactly which one he got, but the biggest is 14" at 500.
you may say that is a 3moa gong, fine, but there is so many factors going on that I was impressed.
we all know muzzle crown is critical item, this was a supressor rifle,
we all know the 1st hundredyards goes relatively flat, but progressive ranges go progressively steeper elevation, and he started at 300.
we all know that cast bullet at (approx) 500yd is really close to subsonic, if not already there, it is on a steep downward trajectory, he was subsonic from the get-go.
he got all his elevation adjustment in the scope dials, he did not have to pause to install a canted MOA mount nor anything else.
his elevation was pointed well over the treeline at 500yd,
we all know the 'box test' for a scope is a tall task, he did the better half of box test and bang the gong in doing so.
he shot a gas check bullet without the gas check, many on this forum say that is a no-no for accuracy,
he used a Lee mold and many on this forum have a disdain for Lee,
many people say you need 100% case fill either dacron or some filler, he had none,
some people question his 5-shot group vs 1shot hits, I believe his 5shot groupings were established a long time ago before he worked up his external ballistics, (and memorized them)
Yeah, I also question the 'size of the gong', but when you add all this up, I was impressed

[JoeJames]

I went out to my local range today, the 500 yard line. I am a cast boolit kind of guy, and the 500 yard line is mostly taken over by the Ruger RPR/6.5creedmoor guys.
Today everybody there has any one of the modern AR/15,,,AR10 ,,,AR/bolt action upper style rifles.
One guy had a modern bolt action with a IORValdota or Nightforce scope, and some handload boolits. .308win.
He went to shoot and he say leave your ears out (earplugs). He was supressed and subsonic. He had boolits not bullets.
I started talking to him about twist rate, and he say 1:10".
I was very much surprised as he clanged the dinger at 300yards, with cast boolit in a modern .308 with a fast twist.
He did say his speed was 1050fps subsonic. I accepted his accuracy from 10 twist at that low velocity.
However, he cranked up his scope xxmils elevation and took 1 round at the next gong at 400yards. clang!!
Then he cranked up his scope xxmils elevation and took 1 round at the 500yard gong. clang!!!
Then he cranked his scope back to some form of Zero to put the gun away.
Another guy showed up, started BS'ing talking, the guy takes the gun back, cranks in some more elevation and gives the gun to the new guy shown up.
Gives him 1 round and ...clang!! the 500 yard gong.
I was most impressed. Shooting like that caused the organizing of the NRA!

[Elkins45]

Not doubting your account but in thinking about this, I came up with a couple questions about what you witnessed.
1050fps is probably what a 7gr load of TB would generate but that is way below the recommended starting load from Hodgdon - maybe a bit scary - don't know. Anybody load that much below TB recommendations before?
How long did the bullet flight take in your opinion?
500yds takes about two full seconds at a MV of 1050. Did it seem that long to you?
Obviously, the guy is quite a marksman but just may have been pulling your chain on the load. You know how some folks are...

My 308 has an 18" barrel. To push a 200 grain cast bullet just below sonic takes me 9.5 grains of Trail Boss. But it's not very accurate compared to other powders in my gun.

[country gent]

While not a 308 Attend a couple BPCR silhouette matches and watch the shooters. AT each range they adjust up to the next "zero" on the tang sight reading the vernier scale. Most get first shot hits on the animal with Loads in the 1150-1200fps range loaded with black powder. They hit rams at 500+ yds consistently with IRON sights. Even the scope shooters are limited to period scopes and 6X with a 3/4" tube. They do this with 1870s era technology.

Most high power shooters have their zeros down to when changing distance the results are Xs first shot as long as they read the wind right. Mt M1A is 1 1/2 clks 200yds, 4clks 300yds and 24 clks 600 yds.

[Larry Gibson]

Kens

I've had several suppressed .308W rifles. While I didn't use cast bullets in them I most often used a 180 gr Sierra RN jacketed for a subsonic load at 1050 fps. The worst they shot was just at moa or a bit over in one rifle. I also didn't use Trail boss. With them staying on a steel F silhouette (old Army prone target) wasn't that difficult out to 600 yards given known ranges and good conditions. I have no doubt it can be done.

this group of guys that was there typically go for the smallest gongs. I cant verify exactly which one he got, but the biggest is 14" at 500.
you may say that is a 3moa gong, fine, but there is so many factors going on that I was impressed.
we all know muzzle crown is critical item, this was a supressor rifle,

I'd say this was not his 1st rodeo shooting that rifle/load at those gongs.
He knew the ranges
He knew his sight settings
Also I'd venture given the cost of suppressing a rifle and with a $2,200+ scope on it the muzzle crown was perfect.

we all know the 1st hundred yards goes relatively flat, but progressive ranges go progressively steeper elevation, and he started at 300.
we all know that cast bullet at (approx) 500yd is really close to subsonic, if not already there, it is on a steep downward trajectory, he was subsonic from the get-go.
he got all his elevation adjustment in the scope dials, he did not have to pause to install a canted MOA mount nor anything else.

As mentioned he knew the sight settings to the various gongs at their ranges. With either scope he had enough elevation adjustment plus 20 - 30 moa hold over with most of the reticles in either scope
You can bet with that set up he already had a 20 or 30 degree base installed.

his elevation was pointed well over the treeline at 500yd,

The line of departure maybe but if adjusting the elevation and connecting like you say he did I doubt the line of sight was.

we all know the 'box test' for a scope is a tall task, he did the better half of box test and bang the gong in doing so.

The two scopes you mention are certainly able to handle the "box test" with ease. That's one of the things the big bucks pay for.

he shot a gas check bullet without the gas check, many on this forum say that is a no-no for accuracy,

At subsonic velocity doing so can be accurate.

he used a Lee mold and many on this forum have a disdain for Lee,

And probably more of us use and like lee moulds along with the much more expensive "custom" moulds. I like mine and I have quite a few lee moulds.

many people say you need 100% case fill either dacron or some filler, he had none,

Not with the faster powders used to get subsonic velocity in a .308W.

some people question his 5-shot group vs 1shot hits, I believe his 5shot groupings were established a long time ago before he worked up his external ballistics, (and memorized them)
Yeah, I also question the 'size of the gong', but when you add all this up, I was impressed

Many of us don't question "accuracy" (as in hitting a target) as compared to "precision" (the grouping size of the load). The guy obviously had a load that could group well and did know his sight settings for those gongs. The best of both.

Yes, I agree, it was "impressive".

[kens]

I have shot cast bullets, and shot MOA groups, and hit the gong, and done the box test, and shot 500yards, and adjusted sights, and shot reduced loads, and all those things:
I just never ran them all together at the same range trip.
I guess that's why I was inspired.

[robg]

Must have an amazing scope to be able to adjust for that amount of drop at 500 yards.

[Larry Gibson]

Must have an amazing scope to be able to adjust for that amount of drop at 500 yards.

Most scopes of the type, make and quality of the two mentioned will be between 65 - 90 moa elevation capable. Additionally using the reticle and add another 20 - 30 moa. The shooter, given a 100 yard zero, probably needed 65 - 75 +/- moa elevation correction.

[kens]

if I understood correctly, he added 27mil from 300 to 500.
his scope was in MIL not MOA so that threw me off my thinking of drop.
I also believe that to be a 40mm scope tube.

and the guy was saying that because he was subsonic all the way, there was an advantage there that he need not pass the trans-sonic stage.
I didnt quite get the full understanding of that part.

[PAT303]

he say 7gr trail boss

7grns is what I use, I went up to 9 but they started cracking, I have only shot to 300m and once dialed in they will hit a 10'' gong every time.

[kens]

The guy say there is a big advantage to staying subsonic the entire time of flight,
I wish someone could explain that to me in layman terms.

[jonp]

I'm still trying to get over the 7grns of Trailboss.

[fastdadio]

The guy say there is a big advantage to staying subsonic the entire time of flight,
I wish someone could explain that to me in layman terms.

It's a deep subject, but give this article a lookieloo.
https://loadoutroom.com/thearmsguide/long-range-shooting-external-ballistics-transonic-region/

[Larry Gibson]

if I understood correctly, he added 27mil from 300 to 500.
his scope was in MIL not MOA so that threw me off my thinking of drop.
I also believe that to be a 40mm scope tube.

and the guy was saying that because he was subsonic all the way, there was an advantage there that he need not pass the trans-sonic stage.
I didnt quite get the full understanding of that part.

Easy to convert mils to moa or visa versa. One mil basically equals 1 meter at 1000 meters or 1 yard at 1000 yards. That is 36" at 1000 yards or basically 1 mil. At 100 yards 1 mil basically equals 3.6" or the 36" at 1000 yards.

If he was zeroed at 100 yards, if the velocity was 1050 fps and he was using the lee 200 gr cast bullet. then it would take about 24 mils to go from 100 yards to 500 yards or about 80 moa. From 300 yards to 500 yards would require 13 mils/45 moa elevation adjustment. Very doable with certain models of the 2 scopes you mentioned. If he needed 27 mils that indicates the velocity was less than 1050 fps and he went from 100 yard zero to 300 yards then to 500 yards for a total of 27 mils(?).

Regardless of what he may or may not have used for the correct elevation correction what he did was indeed impressive as you say.

[waco]

The guy say there is a big advantage to staying subsonic the entire time of flight,
I wish someone could explain that to me in layman terms.

Because the bullet is not having to transition from super sonic to sub sonic. This does weird things to the trajectory of the bullet. Either keep them going fast all the way too the target(super) or keep the slow(sub)
Much easier to get slow accurate loads. The trick is having a high end optic with enough moa/mils to dial in the elevation.

[kens]

Easy to convert mils to moa or visa versa. One mil basically equals 1 meter at 1000 meters or 1 yard at 1000 yards. That is 36" at 1000 yards or basically 1 mil. At 100 yards 1 mil basically equals 3.6" or the 36" at 1000 yards.

If he was zeroed at 100 yards, if the velocity was 1050 fps and he was using the lee 200 gr cast bullet. then it would take about 24 mils to go from 100 yards to 500 yards or about 80 moa. From 300 yards to 500 yards would require 13 mils/45 moa elevation adjustment. Very doable with certain models of the 2 scopes you mentioned. If he needed 27 mils that indicates the velocity was less than 1050 fps and he went from 100 yard zero to 300 yards then to 500 yards for a total of 27 mils(?).

Regardless of what he may or may not have used for the correct elevation correction what he did was indeed impressive as you say.

I dont know where his actual zero was, but I remember he say 27 mils elevation from........somewhere.,,,and we did talk about how much moa that was, and it was a LOT.
I did ask to sandbag the rifle, and he had the bolt removed, and the scope on the target, look thru bore and it was pointed well above treeline at 500yds. and those are huge southern pines!!!!

[charlie b]

Supersonic vs subsonic.

Supersonic the aerodynamics are driven by shock waves (what makes a sonic boom) and there are usually two of them, one at the nose and one near the tail.

Subsonic the aerodynamics are driven by the flow of the air on the surface of the bullet, what most people think about when they consider the aero drag of an object.

When the flow changes between the two conditions strange things can happen. Aircraft development work involved several crashes due to the effects of this flow region.

Also should know that the speed of sound changes with atmospheric conditions. Not much but something to be aware of.

[kens]

I looked in the old Lyman cast bullet book. They have a lot of ballistic charts in there.
I started to notice that a bullet loses speed at a faster rate when it is supersonic. it loses speed at a lesser rate when subsonic.
Example:
a load is fired supersonic and is subsonic at 400yds and the chart goes out to 600.
The bullet loses more speed in the first 200yds, than it does from 400 to 600.
in the first 200yards it lost 34% of its speed, but from 400 to 600 it only lost 17% speed.

[dtknowles]

I looked in the old Lyman cast bullet book. They have a lot of ballistic charts in there.
I started to notice that a bullet loses speed at a faster rate when it is supersonic. it loses speed at a lesser rate when subsonic.
Example:
a load is fired supersonic and is subsonic at 400yds and the chart goes out to 600.
The bullet loses more speed in the first 200yds, than it does from 400 to 600.
in the first 200yards it lost 34% of its speed, but from 400 to 600 it only lost 17% speed.

It is not just because it is supersonic. Drag is one half the drag (ballistic) coefficient times the air density times the velocity squared. Double the velocity quadruple the drag. As a bullet slows down the rate at which it slows down decreases. There is a step function at the speed of sound as most shapes have a change in the ballistic coefficient when they approach the speed of sound. Bullets that are used above and below the speed of sound should quote two ballistic coefficients. I don't put much stock in manufacturers ballistic coefficients.

I did not mean to imply that I did not thing the shooter was impressive. I would like to think that sometimes I am that impressive. What he was doing is hard but not amazing. With care and practice are impressive feats achieved.

I rarely see shooters practicing mostly they are just shooting. Nothing wrong with that but it is not impressive.

Sadly my most impressive shooting goes barely noticed but if I bring an expensive gun to the range that gets noticed.

Tim

[barrabruce]

Sounds like a 50 yard zero for about 27 mil correction.
1 m/hr wind would push the bullet about 6 inches and you will have about 6" of twist correction anyway.

I’ve impressed myself getting a 2moa group on a 300m gong with subsonic.

That 500 yard shooting is impressive to me.

I wish I could see splash out that far where I shoot sometimes you can see some at 300 but not often with a 4x

[charlie b]

Sadly my most impressive shooting goes barely noticed but if I bring an expensive gun to the range that gets noticed.

Tim

LOL ain't it the truth. But, usually at the range I can't tell what people are shooting at so it kinda goes both ways. Unless someone sets up some special targets, like gongs, then I can't tell if they hit what they are aiming for or not.

Once I really dial in a rifle and load then I start 'fun' shooting along with practice and bullseye. Soda cans at 300 and 400yd are fun targets. Just a bit narrower than MOA. I also have some of those little sauce containers, about 2.5" in dia. Filled with water they give a nice 'blast' when hit. These are what I use with a cold bore when I am shooting warm up shots. Placed at various ranges they allow me to dope the wind and verify scope settings.

Every now and then someone notices the 'little' targets and how often they 'explode'. Usually prompts a 'what are you shooting' kind of discussion.

[Texas by God]

My youngest older brother and I used to fill empty Copenhagen cans with flour and duct tape them closed. We got fairly consistent hitting them offhand at 100 yards. That white puff was easy to see. I'd be lucky to hit a basketball nowadays.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[kens]

Hmmmm, little cans of flour,,,,,,,

[dtknowles]

I have lollipop sticks things for holding clay targets. Some for standard clay pigeons and some for smaller chalk type disks that are perfect for the round center of clay pigeons when you run out of the chalk disks. For my bench rest rifle I use paint balls like for paint ball guns. I put them on golf tee's. You would think misting 5 for 5 paint balls at 100 yards might raise some eyebrows but maybe others are too shy to comment.

Tim

[Kraschenbirn]

Hmmmm, little cans of flour,,,,,,,

Sometimes, I'll do Gatorade bottles, painted 'survival orange' and filled with water, at 300 shooting off buffalo sticks with my .38-55 Highwall. Never fails to impress the guys with scoped ARs struggling to keep five shots on one of the 12" gongs at the same distance.

Bill

[charlie b]

I like the paintball/golf tee thing. Will have to get some.