At least Lee still believes in America

[sgms18]

I just wanted to share an email response from Lee Precision. This email was prompted by my feelings of disgust towards Lyman & RCBS when I realized that both the Mag 25 & the Pro Melt are now Chinese bs.

254458

[hotrod13]

Good to know, thanks for sharing

[dimaprok]

Some things are just no longer made in USA sadly. The iphone you talk and post messages on is made in China, computers and lathes. I was looking for lathe, even "German" lathes are made in China, I looked in to it. I wanted precision lathe made in USA no such thing. I ended up buying old US made South Bend and it's great machine but technology changed a lot since 1940s and I want DRO (digital readout) and after seeing Precision Matthews machines from GavinTube channel on YouTube they look great. I guess what I'm trying to say is not everything made in China is junk and not everything made in USA is great either. If I showed you the machining tool marks on Lee dies and how crookedly cut the collet in the neck die you would wonder if some drunk guy was cutting it by hand or the burrs and oblong cavities in Lee molds or expanding button in my Lee 300 Blk die is NOT round I get discussted too by lack of quality and mediocre customer service. RCBS on the other hand is much better quality gear, the molds are great but only 2 cavity, Match grade bullet seating dies with a window to drop a bullet is my favorite, powder dispensers I started with Lee but now they're just collecting dust. I got 3 drum type throwers and electronic Chargemaster Lite dispenser, 2 hand priming units RCBS (also got hand and bench Lee primers collecting dust, the bench one broke after 250 primes). I'm also using RCBS 3 way cutter head to trim 223 brass very quickly without any burrs or chamfering needed and let me tell you how amazing their customer service is! On multiple occasions I called when I had some questions or issues they sent me free replacement parts, let's take for example my last call. I call them to ask if I need a large priming rod for my APS priming tool, they said yes and because I didn't have one they offered to send me one now keep in mind I bought this tool 2nd hand, then I asked how to install it, I use needle-nose pliers to unscrew it and they said no we have a little wrench for this and will send you one as well, then he described about the set screw that holds it and it was missing and that was also sent to me, there are more examples but I'll stop for now. Did I also tell you they're very knowledgeable about their stuff? And when I called Lee to complain about the little dot/ring mark left in the shoulder of the case they said that for half the cost of the die the can look at it and see if they can refurbish it. I opted not too, later I learned that hole is there for a purpose and I was either putting too much lube or it was clogged and I was able to remedy this problem, still have the same die it's fine but their customer service didn't know the solution to this basic problem. I was novice reloader at the time.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[sgms18]

I know, America makes junk too. Just look at the modern automobile. I just hate to see shooting/reloading companies sell out like that. We are supposed to be patriots ******. But sadly we just bitch about it & fork over our money anyway. The pro melt WAS the best pot on the market in my opinion. Seen several of them that were 30+ years old & still going strong. I reckon those days are gone for good. They make their products cheaper overseas but the price sure don't go down.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I started reloading in 1966 with a Lee Loader in .38 Special. In the 54 years that have now passed, learning and enjoying the hobby, I've acquired and used equipment by almost every major manufacturer. I've had very few issues with Lee products, and when I've had one they've never failed to set it right. RCBS products are excellent, but cost more. As the old saying goes, "You pays your money and you takes your choice."

[salpal48]

It is not the fact That Most products are made someplace else. The main Reason is lack of support of the American consumer to purchase American made products. I don't make minimum Wage and I sure You Don't either . How can most Americans expect products to be made Cheap. Our standard of living is high . No one I know is working for Chinese wages., But the buying public wants all items Cheap, cheap.
Years ago the American buying public wants Cheap producing Goods. Now they Got them . Be careful want you wish For

[Captain*Kirk]

Everyone has an opinion and they all count equally.
Personally, 95% of my gear is RCBS regardless of where it's made. I don't blindly buy patriotically...I buy based on quality, durability, customer service after the sale and willingness to back their product, and price. I can't even remember how many times RCBS has gone above and beyond for me. That last incident, my son had borrowed my 505 scale from my loading bench (yeah, he got an earful from me) to weight check his broadheads. Somewhere between that and putting it back, the powder pan vanished. After I got over being angry, I went on the RCBS website and located a replacement pan...$20-something dollars...and called customer service to make the purchase. After they took my customer/mailing info and why i needed the part, I offered them my Visa card number. "No need for that, sir. Replacement pan coming at no charge to you". What?!!! I just finished telling them it had been lost, not broken or defective!!!!
It showed up the next day, Fed Ex P1. Talk about blown away...
So, I don't just blindly buy American without doing the homework. Remember, the lion's share of your purchase goes to the company selling the product, and not the Chinese company making little bits and pieces that go into the product.

[sgms18]

Rcbs has top notch customer service no doubt. But for how long? The more stuff they have made in China I would expect that to change. Hope I'm wrong, I really do. But if quality goes down I'd think you have to stop w/the freebies to stay in business. Hell they can't even get the pro-melt 2 to market. How long have we been waiting now? Obviously they are having major issues already. I just wish I'd bought me an original pro-melt several years ago before all this nonsense started.

[OS OK]

Buy from anyone you like regardless of where it came from but try to remember this...

"Every dollar we spend on a ChineeeeeeCheeePo product is putting $'s in the pockets of your enemy!"

I hope one fine day everything we need and use will have a 'made in USA' sticker on it.

[Captain*Kirk]

Rcbs has top notch customer service no doubt. But for how long? The more stuff they have made in China I would expect that to change. Hope I'm wrong, I really do. But if quality goes down I'd think you have to stop w/the freebies to stay in business. Hell they can't even get the pro-melt 2 to market. How long have we been waiting now? Obviously they are having major issues already. I just wish I'd bought me an original pro-melt several years ago before all this nonsense started.

No doubt! I recently purchased a Lee Production Pot because of the numerous negative consumer reviews on the Chinese RCBS pot I was comparing it to. As I said, you have to treat each purchase as a separate entity and do the homework, without any blind allegiance to any one company or place of origin. It's a complete package, and IMHO you should never have to buy a piece of casting or reloading gear twice in a lifetime, so choose carefully!

[sgms18]

I couldn't agree more! By the way, love your signature. The outlaw josey Wales is one of my all time favorites.

[Captain*Kirk]

I couldn't agree more! By the way, love your signature. The outlaw josey Wales is one of my all time favorites.

Mine too!

[sgms18]

Hard to believe ol Clint is 89!

[RogerDat]

Where it is made is almost meaningless anymore. Business that "makes" it in the USA may order parts or materials to do that making from anywhere in the world. Some Mercedes built in Tenn. have more US worker content than Fords assembled in Mich from sub assemblies built in Mexico.

People want the best possible quality at the lowest price. Successful businesses will be those that meet that desire. Post WW2 made in Japan was cheap junk. Hardly the case today. We don't want to try and live on 3rd world wages while working in 3rd world conditions. The people already doing that will work for lower pay in worse conditions. Companies will buy where it is most profitable to purchase.

We all vote with our wallets. I sometimes buy from gun show vendors rather than online because I appreciate the seller and want to support them. With shipping the prices are generally pretty close. When they aren't close enough I buy online. I'll spend a couple dollars extra on a die set or mold to vote for local business, but won't spend an extra $10 on a die or mold set.

When an American made item is available and the price is at least competitive then fine, I'll buy it. But I give to charity directly not in my purchases. Lee makes a good "value" for the money. In some cases what they offer allows one to do something at a price one can afford. Mercedes or Lincoln are great cars, I just don't drive one because I have a Ford budget. A Lee $20 double cavity mold has me casting for 3 calibers/weights where a Lyman or NOE would have me at only 1. When they offer what I need and Lee doesn't then they get the money, when I need some plinking 158 grain SWC in 38 caliber.... Lee takes care of business.

MEC is super on parts, ordering a replacement for a Pacific shotshell press out of production since dirt was new and not only did the person at MEC check to confirm a later version of hull/base sizer could be used with my press gave me the same "warranty part" when it came time to pay for it. Not bad for supporting a press from a company they bought.

Lee has been good about replacing parts, and yes a few items have benefited from some tweaks post purchase. Polishing the push through sizing die for example. Small time investment that isn't "mandatory" but worthwhile saves me money on the purchase. The Lee dies and Classic Cast presses are first rate at a good price. Pretty sure they are US made, also pretty sure not made from only US steel and parts. Washers, nuts, etc. I bet even they don't know country of origin for the raw materials their suppliers use.

[RogerDat]

I have a question. In Michigan there is a push for the state government to purchase from Michigan companies. If that means spending a bit more than buying same item from out of state company is that wasting taxpayer money or keeping taxpayer money "in the state"?

How is our buying a product based on country of origin different?

BTW - I don't have a distinct opinion on this. Cost and value being equal I say sure in-state company wins. Little bit sketchy about paying a premium price just to keep it "local".

[sgms18]

If it supports local businesses then I say go for it. The government (state or federal) is going to waste you money either way. That's just what government does.

[sgms18]

Hard to care too much when your spending money you didn't have to work for.

[Burnt Fingers]

Some things are just no longer made in USA sadly. The iphone you talk and post messages on is made in China, computers and lathes. I was looking for lathe, even "German" lathes are made in China, I looked in to it. I wanted precision lathe made in USA no such thing. I ended up buying old US made South Bend and it's great machine but technology changed a lot since 1940s and I want DRO (digital readout) and after seeing Precision Matthews machines from GavinTube channel on YouTube they look great. I guess what I'm trying to say is not everything made in China is junk and not everything made in USA is great either. If I showed you the machining tool marks on Lee dies and how crookedly cut the collet in the neck die you would wonder if some drunk guy was cutting it by hand or the burrs and oblong cavities in Lee molds or expanding button in my Lee 300 Blk die is NOT round I get discussted too by lack of quality and mediocre customer service. RCBS on the other hand is much better quality gear, the molds are great but only 2 cavity, Match grade bullet seating dies with a window to drop a bullet is my favorite, powder dispensers I started with Lee but now they're just collecting dust. I got 3 drum type throwers and electronic Chargemaster Lite dispenser, 2 hand priming units RCBS (also got hand and bench Lee primers collecting dust, the bench one broke after 250 primes). I'm also using RCBS 3 way cutter head to trim 223 brass very quickly without any burrs or chamfering needed and let me tell you how amazing their customer service is! On multiple occasions I called when I had some questions or issues they sent me free replacement parts, let's take for example my last call. I call them to ask if I need a large priming rod for my APS priming tool, they said yes and because I didn't have one they offered to send me one now keep in mind I bought this tool 2nd hand, then I asked how to install it, I use needle-nose pliers to unscrew it and they said no we have a little wrench for this and will send you one as well, then he described about the set screw that holds it and it was missing and that was also sent to me, there are more examples but I'll stop for now. Did I also tell you they're very knowledgeable about their stuff? And when I called Lee to complain about the little dot/ring mark left in the shoulder of the case they said that for half the cost of the die the can look at it and see if they can refurbish it. I opted not too, later I learned that hole is there for a purpose and I was either putting too much lube or it was clogged and I was able to remedy this problem, still have the same die it's fine but their customer service didn't know the solution to this basic problem. I was novice reloader at the time.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Paragraphs please. Large blocks of text are impossible for old eyes to read. Hitting the enter key twice every so often doesn't cost anything.

[dimaprok]

Paragraphs please. Large blocks of text are impossible for old eyes to read. Hitting the enter key twice every so often doesn't cost anything.

Was doing on my phone :) sorry, agree with you.

[dimaprok]

Buy from anyone you like regardless of where it came from but try to remember this...

"Every dollar we spend on a ChineeeeeeCheeePo product is putting $'s in the pockets of your enemy!"

I hope one fine day everything we need and use will have a 'made in USA' sticker on it.

The lines are blurred now. The Ford you buy has more import parts than Toyota. Ironically Toyota has more USA sourced parts than any other card made in USA. Take iPhone, it says on it, designed in California and made in China and my mini lathe, it's made in China but I looked everywhere to buy a new American one but they are not made anymore in USA. The legendary South Bend was sold to Grizzly who in turn imports cheap Chinese lathes and sells it here, you should see how it was assembled inside, like someone took a sledgehammer and "hand fitted" leadscrew to bushings that they spared to put ball bearing in it! It would jam and plastic gears would break when threading, turns out the bushing hidden under plastic housing didn't even have any oil in it.

So yeah I am disgusted by the cheap quality, later I picked up old South Bend lathe when it was made in USA and it works but now I want DRO so I might have to go with something more modern and something newer like Mathew Precision which is also made in Hong Kong. What got me was even when I searched for German lathe and looked in to origin where it was made guess what, it's also made in China supposedly being overseen by Germans so it's not just America doing it. There is a big difference though between an iPhone made in China and some cheap knockoff same as DeWalt made in China and Harbor Freight junk tools - both made in China. So what I am saying not everything is cheap junk because it's made in China (iPhone, DeWalt, etc). It's more like you get what you pay for, perfect example is Lee vs. Redding both are American companies.

Second is when you buy your Dell computer or your Iphone or your TV or your Ford with imported parts are you sending your dollars to enemy? How's that any different from buying RCBS melting pot? If RCBS didn't screw up and 2nd gen pot was even better than 1st one, would anyone even notice it's made in China?

The days of products Made in USA are getting less and less and it's only downhill from now on but it doesn't mean the quality will decline, the production does get better, it will all come down how much you are willing to spend rather where it's made.

[dimaprok]

No doubt! I recently purchased a Lee Production Pot because of the numerous negative consumer reviews on the Chinese RCBS pot I was comparing it to. As I said, you have to treat each purchase as a separate entity and do the homework, without any blind allegiance to any one company or place of origin. It's a complete package, and IMHO you should never have to buy a piece of casting or reloading gear twice in a lifetime, so choose carefully!

Ha! But than it would stop being fun! Maybe not twice but one of each? I want to try everything :) so I am always on lookout for deals especially when I can get killer deals on 2nd hand. The problem now is where do I mount all the presses I accumulated :)))))

[454PB]

Lee has pulled more people into casting and reloading than any other company.

I own and use equipment from every and all reloading/casting manufacturers. In my 50+ years of reloading/casting, I've had only two instances where a tool was defective or that I broke. Lyman was the first, and did finally admit my mould was defective and replaced free. RCBS was the second, I lost a piece from a priming tool (my own fault), they graciously replaced it free of charge.

I've never had a problem with Lee equipment, and I own three of their casting pots and around 30 of their moulds, plus a half dozen die sets, and numerous other gadgets. I'm always amused when I read what junk they make......my oldest casting pot is 45 years old and has melted literally tons of lead.

[djryan13]

As crappy as the Lee pots are, I thought they were made elsewhere. Who would have thunk... sorry, I will stick to my Chinese made RCBS.

[Springfield]

There is a third choice, Magma engineering pots. Made here, great quality, but high price. But it holds more and has a higher wattage, and it can be had with 2 pour spouts. And it doesn't drip.

[djryan13]

There is a third choice, Magma engineering pots. Made here, great quality, but high price. But it holds more and has a higher wattage, and it can be had with 2 pour spouts. And it doesn't drip.

Got one on order!!!

[megasupermagnum]

As crappy as the Lee pots are, I thought they were made elsewhere. Who would have thunk... sorry, I will stick to my Chinese made RCBS.

I've Got three Lee pots, two 20lb, one 10lb. One was originally bought in the 80's and used until I inherited it. I never had a single problem with any of them.

[sgms18]

Sure have been alot of nice bullets made from them ol crappy Lee pots

[Stephen Cohen]

I feel your pain, we have the same problem in this country however we have very few manufacturing companies left now. In todays world and the profits share holders expect it is inevitable that companies will use China to cut cost. I doubt if you will find anything that is totally American made except perhaps ones own children, even the American cars would have had bolts nuts and such made in China and or Japan. My brother has 3 MK 5 Weatherby's one of which is made in Japan and of the three it is by fare the better finished rifle. I can't help but see how ironic it is that my parents generation went to war against these very nations and we now prop them up to be a world power to be worried about, how the times have changed. Regards Stephen

[solman]

Another vote her for Lee loading products.
Over 30 years ago I got into reloading on a Lee press and dies. It was affordable, especially for a newbie who did not want to spend top dollar on a hobby he may or may not end up liking. Later a Lee 10lb lead pot and Lee molds filled the casting bug. I still have those 25 years and they are fine and recently added a 20lb Lee pot. I now have some Lyman and Rcbs molds now as well. Without the affordability of Lee Products I might never have gotten into the reloading and casting part of shooting. Also I have found their customer service to be good the once or twice I needed it.
Solman

[6bg6ga]

Everyone has an opinion and they all count equally.
Personally, 95% of my gear is RCBS regardless of where it's made. I don't blindly buy patriotically...I buy based on quality, durability, customer service after the sale and willingness to back their product, and price. I can't even remember how many times RCBS has gone above and beyond for me. That last incident, my son had borrowed my 505 scale from my loading bench (yeah, he got an earful from me) to weight check his broadheads. Somewhere between that and putting it back, the powder pan vanished. After I got over being angry, I went on the RCBS website and located a replacement pan...$20-something dollars...and called customer service to make the purchase. After they took my customer/mailing info and why i needed the part, I offered them my Visa card number. "No need for that, sir. Replacement pan coming at no charge to you". What?!!! I just finished telling them it had been lost, not broken or defective!!!!
It showed up the next day, Fed Ex P1. Talk about blown away...
So, I don't just blindly buy American without doing the homework. Remember, the lion's share of your purchase goes to the company selling the product, and not the Chinese company making little bits and pieces that go into the product.

I've got a majority of my reloading dies that are RCBS (No Lee) recently had a problem with my 9mm bullet dropper setup from RCBS called them and I received free replacement parts from them with no questions asked.

Kinda wondering here how many of you hard core "Made in America" products spokespeople are driving vehicles made in Japan or vehicles whose profits are going back to Japan or how many buy from discount houses that sell cheap chinese and japaneese junk.

[sgms18]

Kinda wondering here how many of you hard core "Made in America" products spokespeople are driving vehicles made in Japan or vehicles whose profits are going back to Japan or how many buy from discount houses that sell cheap chinese and japaneese junk.

Way too many I'm sure

[porthos]

ALL Redding products are made in USA. too bad that they do not make a furnace; if they did it would be the same quality as their other products. i'm a ladle caster. my pot is a 1980s lyman 20 lb ladle pot. when that quits my next pot will be a Wagee. you get what you pay for.

[M-Tecs]

I love my Waage K4757. It is a special order item. link here https://www.shootandreload.com/2014/02/10/bullet-casting-furnace-overview/

I love my 90 pound Magma engineering.

Both US made and the best of their class.

[sgms18]

I love my Waage K4757. It is a special order item. link here https://www.shootandreload.com/2014/02/10/bullet-casting-furnace-overview/

I love my 90 pound Magma engineering.

Both US made and the best of their class.

Never heard of them. Looks like a good pot though. Too bad the don't offer a bottom pour model.

[M-Tecs]

Never heard of them. Looks like a good pot though. Too bad the don't offer a bottom pour model.

They are primarily an industrial supplier. Very well made.

[richhodg66]

I replaced my Lee ten pound dripomatic a few years ago with an old Lyman 61 I got. Wish like crazy I had done it years ago, I fought with that Lee thing way too long and it Is so much easier to get good bullets with a quality pot.

I'm not a Lee basher. I finally learned to get good bullets from their two cavity molds. I have come to love their six cavity molds and will always use them if possible. I have also come to prefer their dies for straight walled cartridges. I like their little case length gauge trimmers and use their hand priming tools a lot.

I'd not have one of their presses, nor another of their melters regardless of where they're made. Too many better options. I also don't care for that Lee load manual everybody else raves about. Bottom line, they make some good stuff, but I've never had a bad RCBS product. And like many others have stated, I have stuff I use from just about every manufacturer there ever was.

[Phlier]

Everyone has an opinion and they all count equally.
Personally, 95% of my gear is RCBS regardless of where it's made. I don't blindly buy patriotically...I buy based on quality, durability, customer service after the sale and willingness to back their product, and price. I can't even remember how many times RCBS has gone above and beyond for me. That last incident, my son had borrowed my 505 scale from my loading bench (yeah, he got an earful from me) to weight check his broadheads. Somewhere between that and putting it back, the powder pan vanished. After I got over being angry, I went on the RCBS website and located a replacement pan...$20-something dollars...and called customer service to make the purchase. After they took my customer/mailing info and why i needed the part, I offered them my Visa card number. "No need for that, sir. Replacement pan coming at no charge to you". What?!!! I just finished telling them it had been lost, not broken or defective!!!!
It showed up the next day, Fed Ex P1. Talk about blown away...
So, I don't just blindly buy American without doing the homework. Remember, the lion's share of your purchase goes to the company selling the product, and not the Chinese company making little bits and pieces that go into the product.


No doubt! I recently purchased a Lee Production Pot because of the numerous negative consumer reviews on the Chinese RCBS pot I was comparing it to. As I said, you have to treat each purchase as a separate entity and do the homework, without any blind allegiance to any one company or place of origin. It's a complete package, and IMHO you should never have to buy a piece of casting or reloading gear twice in a lifetime, so choose carefully!
Great posts, Cap'n, I couldn't agree more.


As crappy as the Lee pots are, I thought they were made elsewhere. Who would have thunk... sorry, I will stick to my Chinese made RCBS.


Sure have been alot of nice bullets made from them ol crappy Lee pots

I decided that I'd retire my still flawlessly working SAECO pot, and bought a new Lee 4-20 just about five years ago. I have never seen the bottom of that pot since my first melt; I just keep adding alloy to it when it gets low. I don't plan on *ever* seeing the bottom of that pot. And it has *never* dripped. IMO, the secret to getting a Lee "Drip-O-Matic" to not drip is to never see the bottom of the pot. I cast a bare minimum of 1k boolits per week, and that pot still performs like it did on the first day.

[dimaprok]

IMO, the secret to getting a Lee "Drip-O-Matic" to not drip is to never see the bottom of the pot. I cast a bare minimum of 1k boolits per week, and that pot still performs like it did on the first day.

The secret is plain and simple, use clean ingots. For the most part my Lee pot doesn't drip, I don't like leaving lead in the pot, hard to remember what alloy it was and I don't cast that often. If it drips, it needs to be cleaned. Chuck a wire cup brush and clean the pot bottom and sides, clean the drip spout. Take out the plunger, chuck it in the drill and polish the end with the fine sandpaper, this will stop the leaks and should be done when you buy the pot.

[tinsnips]

My old Lyman, an my old Rcbs should outlast me if not I build one myself. Just about all the product we buy now days are not as good as they were in the past. Sad but true.

[djryan13]

The secret is plain and simple, use clean ingots. For the most part my Lee pot doesn't drip, I don't like leaving lead in the pot, hard to remember what alloy it was and I don't cast that often. If it drips, it needs to be cleaned. Chuck a wire cup brush and clean the pot bottom and sides, clean the drip spout. Take out the plunger, chuck it in the drill and polish the end with the fine sandpaper, this will stop the leaks and should be done when you buy the pot.

I am following the same use practices with my RCBS as I did with my Lee. Lee dripped. RCBS doesn’t. Simple math to me. I shouldn’t have a list of rules to follow (don’t feed it after midnight?) in order for Lee pot to not drip. No one should be putting unclean lead in their pot anyway. I don’t. It drips. Never “cleaned” my RCBS. It’s a well built tool.

[dimaprok]

I am following the same use practices with my RCBS as I did with my Lee. Lee dripped. RCBS doesn’t. Simple math to me. I shouldn’t have a list of rules to follow (don’t feed it after midnight?) in order for Lee pot to not drip. No one should be putting unclean lead in their pot anyway. I don’t. It drips. Never “cleaned” my RCBS. It’s a well built tool.

I didn't list any rules, what I said is common sense, don't put dirty ingots and that applies to all. The mod with the plunger is very easy to do and it fixed the problem for me. I see no reason to spend $365 vs $65 when Lee works. I spend money on PID controller, I would spend extra money if I could increase capacity to 40lb but no such option. So what if I get occasional drip, I just put ingot mold or small cast iron pot underneath and it's all good. Can't justify spending $300 extra with no real benefit. I also took Lee Magnum melter ($33 what it cost me for new one) and replaced the pot with bigger stainless steel pot from thrift store ($3) and insulated with ceramic blanket which is covered with aluminum sheet metal. It doesn't have bottom pour but increased capacity about 30lb let's me melt a good batch of alloy. Next step, I got even bigger container I picked up, will put 2 of the Lee heating elements 700 + 700 = 1400 watt, drill the bottom and install bottom pour system similar to lee and than add simple system to hold the pot which will be also insulated with ceramic blanket. Not paying $600, the technology in the pot is not complicated, will be controlled with same PID controller.

[44magLeo]

I agree with dimaprok on this. The Lee is the best pot you can get for the price.
I have been thinking about building a large capacity electric pot.
A local steel seller has a cut off area in the corner. They sell left over scrap pieces of steel by the pound.
One time they had a 4 foot section of 1/4 thick walled, 12 inch diameter round tubing. I thought about getting it and cutting into three sections and welding a 1/4 thick piece on one end for a pot. Well three pots, sell two. to help cover the cost of building them.
Use a 4500 watt water heater element bolted up on the bottom. Use the PID I built for heat control. Adding a pour spout and legs to support it. Use this as a pot to clean wheel weights or mix large batches of ingots of one alloy.
Not sure how much lead a pot 12 inches in diameter 16 inches tall would hold but I'm sure it would hold enough to make a bunch of bullets.
I bet I could have built all three and came in cheaper than those one of Lyman and RCBS pots.
I might still do it next time I see some large round tubbing like what was there that day.
Leo

[454PB]

12"X16" would hold 741.19 pounds of pure lead. I question how well a water heating element would hold up to constant use at 600 degrees, but it's an awesome idea.

[44magLeo]

I guess I don't need a pot that big. I'll try to find a bit smaller tube. I have an old propane tank cut off to use over a propane burner. I might see if I can adapt an element to fit the rounded bottom of that.
The reason I thought of the water heater elements was I just replaced to ones in my hot water heater.
4500 watts and around $12 at Lowes. They sell electric stove top elements in various sizes. 4, 6 and 8 inches. Some have more turns for the same size as others. Like 3 turns or 4 turns in the 6 inch size. The 8 inch has like 6 or 8 turns. I don't recall I guess I should have written that stuff down so I'd know now.
If that 8 inch one with the most turns is flexible enough it may form to the round bottom of that old propane tank.
If not I might see about cutting the bottom off and getting a plat piece of steel to weld to it. The 8 inch element would not have to flex then.
I think the ones that have more turns draw more watts so would heat faster.
They don't have a wattage on the package so I don't know for sure.
I'll have to do some research on that.
Leo

[454PB]

Here is something to think about. I know it's not what you want, but may spark some ideas. I made this up some years ago:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?10127-1-Lead-Smelter

[jonp]

I love my Waage K4757. It is a special order item. link here https://www.shootandreload.com/2014/02/10/bullet-casting-furnace-overview/

I love my 90 pound Magma engineering.

Both US made and the best of their class.

I've also never heard of the Waage. It seems to me that for the price of one you can get 2 Lee Magnum and still have some left over for lead although not everyone has the room for 2 melters.

[jonp]

I've got 2 both Lee's. One bottom "drip-o-matic" and a 10lb. I don't really mind the drips as I'm not in a hurry. When I get a tower of melt I just drop it back in and take a breather for a minute. For the price I agree with others, Lee makes alot of equipment that allows people like me without much to spare to get into casting and reloading while still turning out a good end product. Without a Lee Whack A Mole I'd never have reloaded my first round

[M-Tecs]

I've also never heard of the Waage. It seems to me that for the price of one you can get 2 Lee Magnum and still have some left over for lead although not everyone has the room for 2 melters.

True but before I had my two Waage's I used lee pots for pre-melt. I went through three Lee's with failed heating elements. My bet is my Waage pot will still be in service long after I am gone. Feeding multiple H&G 10 cavities takes lots of lead and heat for extended periods. The Lee's that I owned were not up to the task. I use them for feeding my 90 pound Magma Cast Master.

[jonp]

True but before I had my two Waage's I used lee pots for pre-melt. I went through three Lee's with failed heating elements. My bet is my Waage pot will still be in service long after I am gone. Feeding multiple H&G 10 cavities takes lots of lead and heat for extended periods. The Lee's that I owned were not up to the task. I use them for feeding my 90 pound Magma Cast Master.

Oh, well that's a little different than someone melting for a few hundred boolits. I'm not surprised they were not up to the task you set for them as I don't think they were designed for use like that.

[454PB]

I must be lucky, I have 3 Lee pots (2 ten pound and one 20 pound). The oldest 10 pound has been in use for 46 years, the other 10 pound modified to dipper use by removing the metering rod and brazing the hole closed. The 20 pound is about 20 years old. None of these have had any problems, and I've cast several tons of boolits with them. I once did an experiment with the older 10 pounder, I had some zinc contaminated alloy, melted it in the pot, and left it on and heating for several days. No damage to the pot, and I learned that zinc can't be separated using this method.

[dimaprok]

I was going to say a 12" tube will hold a LOT of lead. I remember watching a youtube video of one guy who build such melter using something like 3 heating elements, in the end he said it took 2 hours to melt I think 100lb of lead. I had same idea of using cooktop heating element but than I realized they are 240v not 110 so that's a problem as where I melt there isn't a socket with 220v. Also 4500 Watt will be only possible on 240 Volt or higher. I've seen a build here on the forum a very elegantly made with ton of pictures I saved, a true work of art. The key thing I remember is he used new oven element and bent around the pot and if the element has never been heated it will bend without breaking.

Note to author of project below if you see it and object that I posted pictures - please forgive me I will delete.255064255065255066255068

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

True but before I had my two Waage's I used lee pots for pre-melt. I went through three Lee's with failed heating elements. My bet is my Waage pot will still be in service long after I am gone. Feeding multiple H&G 10 cavities takes lots of lead and heat for extended periods. The Lee's that I owned were not up to the task. I use them for feeding my 90 pound Magma Cast Master.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but how many years is an element supposed to last? If you have a need for higher production, a 20 pound lee isn't it. If you cast a "measly" 10,000 bullets a year, a Lee last's a long time. And lets not forget a Lee element is $9. Not exactly a back breaking cost.

[M-Tecs]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but how many years is an element supposed to last? If you have a need for higher production, a 20 pound lee isn't it. If you cast a "measly" 10,000 bullets a year, a Lee last's a long time. And lets not forget a Lee element is $9. Not exactly a back breaking cost.

All three of mine failed between 6 and 9 months of medium usage. That was in the late 80's or early 90's. My Magma has been heavily used since that time with zero issues. My Waage's have not been used nearly as much as the Magma but they have been used 10 times what all three Lee were. I used a larger Waage pot at work that only got turned off on weekends. It was there when I started and it was still operating 12 years later when I left.

At the time the heating element was about half the cost of what I paid for the units new. Lee currently lists them for $22 plus shipping https://leeprecision.com/new-heater-500w120v.html

[megasupermagnum]

I take it you were in a casting business? I only use mine for personal use, about 2-3 hours at a time. My two newer ones are only two years old. My oldest one was inherited, bought in the 80's. Titan reloading lists the element for $9.

I would be surprised if the Magma was not a better pot. It would have to be for that price. I think some people are just sour because they know their Chineese Lyman at 3x the cost is inferior to the $65 Lee pot made in USA.

[M-Tecs]

No, not in the casting business but between work, Air National Guard, competitive shooting schedule and family when I would cast it would be for 2 or 3 days for 12 to 16 hours a day.

[megasupermagnum]

Well that's sure getting it done! I'm pretty well beat after casting for 6 hours straight.

[Cole440]

Amen, after my last lyman purchase I swore I would never buy again. I brought a mold that was rust out of the box and miss stamped and overall looked like crap. Screws came pre stripped for 100 bucks! The customer service response was "sorry you dont find our products of quality, have a good one" I sent it back and have not bought a single thing since.

[dimaprok]

Actually you want this one https://leeprecision.com/heat-120v-stand-20lb.html
Everything on Lee's website is inflated by at least 30% $$. But if your heating element fails you can contact them and I believe they will send you a replacement for 7 Bucks. If they failed little over half a year it was something seriously wrong, that should not happen.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[dogmower]

that's good to know. I guess I got bad advice when I started loading (30 years ago) about Lee quality not being up there with lyman, rcbs, hornady. Honestly, the more I use Lee products, the more I like them. IMO I think Hornady has the best blend of quality, price and customer service, but Lee is right there as well. I think Hornady tries to source items from US companies, but I could be wrong.

[megasupermagnum]

that's good to know. I guess I got bad advice when I started loading (30 years ago) about Lee quality not being up there with lyman, rcbs, hornady. Honestly, the more I use Lee products, the more I like them. IMO I think Hornady has the best blend of quality, price and customer service, but Lee is right there as well. I think Hornady tries to source items from US companies, but I could be wrong.

I also think Hornady makes good products. I always thought RCBS products, especially their dies were odd. I don't like them at all, but that's a personal preference thing. I don't think much of new Lyman products.

I like Lee the best, Hornady is good too. It just happens Lee is the least expensive, but that's not why I buy their products.

[maxreloader]

I have had not good interactions with Lee. I have had really good interactions with RCBS. I own and use all kinds of reloading equipment. My $.02 I would have used other words besides "not good" but this site has issues with that type of lingo.

[elmacgyver0]

If you want your heating elements to last keep your pot full.
Same as don't let a tea pot boil dry.
At least this is my theory, so far it has worked for me.
But then I probably haven't made near the boolits you fellows have.

[dimaprok]

I also think Hornady makes good products. I always thought RCBS products, especially their dies were odd. I don't like them at all, but that's a personal preference thing. I don't think much of new Lyman products.

I like Lee the best, Hornady is good too. It just happens Lee is the least expensive, but that's not why I buy their products.

RCBS dies - I have their 45 ACP that I got in the trade and they are great, loaded 11 boxes of ammo no issues. Purchased 308 dies and noticed how much harder it was to size, I though for sure will get case stuck even though I was using imperial wax but if I just pushed it harder it went through, ok brushed it off as this must be the norm after 223. Than a depriming rod came loose (threaded piece) and decapping pin broke after maybe 30 cases, than I broke another one pin, borrowed one from Hornady die it fits! Contacted RCBS they sent me 5 free decapping pins and whole new decapping rod, great customer service. Returned RCBS dies after Lee 4 die set came from Amazon. Noticed sizing was surprisingly easier, 4 dies instead of 2 for about same price. BUT.. the quality how dies are machined is day and night difference! RCBS is top notch, lee is meh.. but it seems to work better in this instance.

I really like RCBS powder measures, I have 3 of them and if you are patient you can find them pretty cheap on ebay. I also love my RCBS Lite chargemaster, also their die wrench is a must have and powder pan and crimp remover and primer pocket uniformer, their shell holders are nice but overpriced, Hornady is better than Lee but almost half price.

[megasupermagnum]

There's nothing wrong with the RCBS powder measure. I had one. I broke it, but it was my fault. The Lee powder measure is just as good. They all work. The Lyman #55 is just ridiculously overcomplicated though. No idea what people see in them at all.

I haven't notice a huge problem of quality in RCBS dies, it's just the features they offer I don't like. Set screw lock rings, crimping seating dies, odd threaded depth adjusters, etc. Just preference stuff. I own a few die sets of Hornady, one or two RCBS, else I must have 30 sets of Lee. Lee is the only dies I buy anymore. I have yet to have a problem with any die set. Nothing wrong with Hornady dies, just not my favorite.

[Kenstone]

Lee replacement heating element at Titan:
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-service-parts/mold-and-melter-parts/lee-el3453-heater-coil-700w-120v

$9

[GregLaROCHE]

Where are other Lyman and RCBS products made? I bet a lot come from China too.

[ReloaderFred]

Where are other Lyman and RCBS products made? I bet a lot come from China too.

I didn't ask Lyman at the SHOT Show last week, but I did ask RCBS, and only their electronics are made in China. Everything else is made in the U.S.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[GregLaROCHE]

[QUOTE=ReloaderFred;4815976]I didn't ask Lyman at the SHOT Show last week, but I did ask RCBS, and only their electronics are made in China. Everything else is made in the U.S.

Hope this helps.

That’s good to know, because I buy a lot of RCBS stuff.

[PhatForrest]

Hopefully after this latest fiasco runs its course, people will realize that 3rd world countries should be less relied upon for manufacturing, including everything up to and including PPE and medication. MBA bean counters have ruined this country.

That being said, I applaud Lee for keeping their production line here, staffed by hard working Americans, and will spend my money accordingly.

[EDG]

Your patriotism is misplaced. As soon as Lee figures out they can reduce costs by 30% they will be buying stuff made in China too. Lee is just late to the game and will eventually copy the other manufacturers to remain competitive.

I bet you guys did not know large companies that source billions of dollars in components regard parts of the US as high cost regions. Those regions include the New England area and California. When they can they avoid doing business in those regions since they can get equivalent products in lower cost regions of the country. Basically they avoid doing business in states dominated by labor unions.

[dragon813gt]

Your patriotism is misplaced. As soon as Lee figures out they can reduce costs by 30% they will be buying stuff made in China too. Lee is just late to the game and will eventually copy the other manufacturers to remain competitive.

I see you’ve never spoke to anyone at Lee. They will not do this as long as the family is still in charge. They could have done this at any point but haven’t.

[Outer Rondacker]

Don’t get me wrong I love lee reloading but....... no QC. 50%of the Lee molds i have bought represent the quality of a product produced in Chinese prisons. If you call them and choose to speak with them you get a very nice lady. She has to talk over her shoulder to a pissy grumpy man that thinks his crap doesn’t stink. So they don’t give 2 shakes for America’s if they did you might get some appreciation for being a customer.

In my opinion the new Lee follows a Chinese way of business. Build it just good enough and screw the customer if they get a lemon. I still will own lee molds and dies.

[frkelly74]

Not gun related ... but I was just going through the engine of My Daughters PT Cruiser and replacing some parts incidental to getting to the engine . I noticed that the brace like engine mounting parts had bad bushings. They are heavy castings that kind of resemble dog bones and there is one at the top of the engine and one at the bottom to keep the whole engine from rocking in place. Well I got to looking for replacements and discovered that Mopar parts cost about $130 each, looking further there were made in China copies of the same part for less than $40 each. I needed a bridge for the boys Violin and got one off ebay which I had to fit to the instrument. I discovered I could buy 5 for about $6 with free shipping from China. I do not know how they can make stuff so cheap, and I am not sure I want to know.

[Hawks Feather]

Back in the early 70s when I started reloading RCBS was pretty much the king of the hill and Lee was not even close. Plus whenever I had a problem I called RCBS and they sent a replacement at no cost. In the last 15 years I have purchased some Lee items and one was totally out of specs. I called Lee and they told me to send it in, which I did. They said that it looked fine and told me I would need to pay for the return postage. Needless to say I told them to just keep it. That being said, I have a friend who has mostly Lee products and loves them.

I do like buying American but I also like buying quality when I can afford it. I also like buying local and know that prices on local are usually higher than online sources. That being said, if a brick of .22 LR is double in price locally I am going to make my purchase online.

[OS OK]

I have tried to give Lee the 'benefit of the doubt' over the years...there's been a few things that haven't required me to polish them up to make them work smooth, like their sizers that can be any size around what you ordered. I haven't given that much thought because I still hone them to size what I want with my particular lead.

The rub for me is about this last abortion they put on the market almost wholely untested and tried. The 'APP' .... burns my hide.
Several of the key people, key customers that did the R&D after it was delivered never received even a thanks from that outfit as far as I know.
One of them discovered the problem with the shell holder needing that slot in the bottom.
Another reworked the slide and fingers that'd push a case out without tipping.
Another made the first handle for the goofy knob they made.
Not one of them have heard anything from Lee but 'crickets'...no thanks no nothing.

That's typical now from Lee...so if you buy because it's cheep and choose them over another quality product...well, know that there's more than a savings that comes with buying for 'cheep'....there's problems and those problems are on your nickel.

[Conditor22]

OSOK, at least Lee isn't made in China :) :bigsmyl2:

[onelight]

osok here is a Link to Lee's sight where they thank folks for posting the videos of problems with the just released App it's at the 1-27-2020 update.
https://leeprecision.com/app-automatic-processing-press/ it's about the middle of the page.
I thought that was a nice public response .
Not real sure where the "abomination " word comes from , I haven't heard any of the people that are using them describe them that way.
Have you been unable to get yours to work?

[jonp]

Your patriotism is misplaced. As soon as Lee figures out they can reduce costs by 30% they will be buying stuff made in China too. Lee is just late to the game and will eventually copy the other manufacturers to remain competitive.

I bet you guys did not know large companies that source billions of dollars in components regard parts of the US as high cost regions. Those regions include the New England area and California. When they can they avoid doing business in those regions since they can get equivalent products in lower cost regions of the country. Basically they avoid doing business in states dominated by labor unions.

I'm surprised at your answer and the dim view you have of the intelligence of the people running Lee. The fact that they can turn out quality equipment and at a lower cost than other companies shows that they have figured out how to get it done right here in the USA.

I guess what this thread proves is that some people, myself included, like Lee products and have had no problems with them, some have had problems and gotten them promptly resolved and others think Lee is junk. To each his own.

[jonp]

Kinda wondering here how many of you hard core "Made in America" products spokespeople are driving vehicles made in Japan or vehicles whose profits are going back to Japan or how many buy from discount houses that sell cheap chinese and japanese junk.

1) Japan has about 40% of the domestic market and of that 40% approximately 75% of the vehicles are made in the USA

2) Japan is not a hostile Geo-political nation to the USA. As the most recent of the several pandemics the Communists lied about until it swept the world have demonstrated and then refusing to allow medical products including masks be exported, China is not our friend.

[OS OK]

osok here is a Link to Lee's sight where they thank folks for posting the videos of problems with the just released App it's at the 1-27-2020 update.
https://leeprecision.com/app-automatic-processing-press/ it's about the middle of the page.
I thought that was a nice public response .
Not real sure where the "abomination " word comes from , I haven't heard any of the people that are using them describe them that way.
Have you been unable to get yours to work?

I didn't order one ... I don't have one. . . I don't want one.

I built an upside down sizing press and couldn't be happier.

https://i.imgur.com/F6rMpum.jpg

The APP doesn't have any advantages over any single thing my other presses do much better with no headaches involved.

Thanks for pointing this out...I would never have found this without your instructions to locate it. They really went overboard to express gratitude to their dedicated customers for their hours and hours of frustration trying to make this untried press operate.

https://i.imgur.com/RqZEcN7.jpg

[charlie b]

I like my Lee stuff. It is a great value for the money. I am not a production user so my Lee stuff has been in use for more than 20 years. When I order parts that have worn out Lee usually sends them for free.

Made in USA? Don't make me laugh. Go through your house and count how many items are really completely US made. Don't forget to include where the raw materials come from and the tools that the manufacturer uses to make the products.

[Outer Rondacker]

I’m 100% made in the USA. LoL just for giggles.

Most lumber is not even made in the USA. Here trees get cut in NY and shipped out to Canada processed and shipped back to the states.