Watch out for new changes to the Lee Classic Cast press!

[BT Sniper]

Aluminum bushing for Lee press replaces original steel bushing!

https://i.imgur.com/XkXgQlbl.jpg

Aluminum breech lock bushing shown above with black finish, I have my doubts it will stand up to swaging pressures.





As many of you may know I am a big supporter of the Lee Classic Cast press for use with swaging our bullets. I have made everything from 17-50BMG cal bullets in it (while I don't recommend it for the BMG it was possible). While others may have broke an occasional lever clamp or at worst maybe a connecting link I have had zero problems or defects with every press I have used........


but...... with the last two presses I just recently received (must be new 2020 models) it seems they are now making the "Breech Lock" bushing adapter standard in the top of the press. Rather then a solid steel reducing bushing mounted in the top of the press that takes the 1 1/4-12 threads of the press down to the 7/8-14 threads of a typical reloading or my swage dies, it now has a breech lock bushing with a breech lock 7/8-14 bushing screwed into it.

I am sure this is fine for reloading but I know we have seen a few of these breech lock bushings broken from the force and strain of swagin in the past and those where the steel inserts as I recal!

The worst part is this breech lock bushing is MADE FROM FRICKEN ALUMINUM! Come on Lee! The Classic Cast was the one good thing you had going, don't screw it up with this!

I plan to do everything I can to let Lee know my dissatisfaction with this obvious cost cutting idea. I already tried to go to their parts list page and order the replacement original all steel bushing but haven't found it yet. I can certainly obtain other reducing bushings no problem but I certainly don't recommend any of us count on this crap aluminum bushing to hold up for swaging, maybe I'm wrong and maybe there are those of use out there already using this set up with success but I sure don't like the change.

I still plan to offer, support and recommend the lee press for nearly all our swaging needs but I'll be making sure this bushing is of all steel construction on anything I use or offer!

I'll have pics uploaded soon.

https://i.imgur.com/AewN4zBl.jpg




https://i.imgur.com/oDfnWIol.jpg
new breech lock aluminum bushing on left, original all steel bushing on right



https://i.imgur.com/VGGJK3ml.jpg







BT

[BT Sniper]

Any of you that may have already bought a Lee Classic that came with parts like these and intend to use the press for swaging, I advise you to proceed with caution or replace these week parts with a steel bushing. Who cares really if this part breaks, I'm sure Lee would replace it for free but when this part lets go it will do so under pressure and cause your expensive swage die to come out of alignment and get possible damage from the base punch misaligned with/in the die. Lee I'm sure has no problem replacing a 10 cent piece on their end but I doubt you will get anything out of them for a ruined swage die!

Also be sure to let the shop you bought the press from know your displeasure with this new part and notify Lee Precision as well. I'll certainly will be and keep everyone advised.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Reply I sent to online store where current production Lee Classic Cast press was purchased. Feel free to use, forward or edit this message for your own needs too if need be.....



Just received, actually opened, my latest shipment of two new Lee Classic cast presses. While you guys have always done a great job fulfilling my business needs I wish to express my disappointment with the new change Lee Precision has made to the top Hex Bushing (lee part # BP2979) of the Lee Classic Cast press. Lee has replaced the all steel one piece bushing with a cheap two piece aluminum breach lock bushing. This is an obvious attempt to cut corners in cost savings and sell more new fancy breech lock bushings and silly aluminum "lock ring eliminator" parts. Does Lee really expect these aluminum parts to hold up to the most demanding of reloading pressures?

I have always found the Lee Classic to be an exceptional press and have purchased more then 30 of them in the last 5 years to use for myself and provide to customers. We use this press to swage bullets with very expensive dies and can not risk injury to self or damage to expensive dies should and when this new part fails. I can not recommend this press to my customers when this aluminum bushing is to be used in the press.

You can view pics and additional comments I have posted in the following thread.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?393883-Watch-out-for-new-changes-to-the-Lee-Classic-Cast-press!

I request to have two or more replacement all steel original bushings (Lee Part # BP2979) sent to me as soon as possible.

Please feel free to forward this message to whom ever necessary including Lee Precision if necessary.

Sincerely,

Brian Thurner

Owner BTSNIPER llc.
541-436-4095

[BT Sniper]

If there is any good news to this development...... the threaded bushing on many of the RCBS, Redding and Hornady presses will work in the Lee.

Still can't believe it.....

BT

[BT Sniper]

Latest revision I just sent to Lee....

1/8/2020

To whom it may concern,

I wish to express my disappointment with the new changes made to the Lee Classic Cast press concerning the top Hex Bushing (lee part # BP2979) with the replacement of the former all steel one piece bushing to the current cheap two piece aluminum breach lock style bushing.

I have always found the Lee Classic press to be an exceptional press and have purchased more than 30 of them in the last 5 years to use for myself and provide to customers. I feel this new change is a down grade in the quality of this great press and an obvious attempt to cut costs while attempting to sell more of your breech lock bushings and/or lock ring eliminators. If my customers or I wished to use this press as a breech lock we would have purchased the adapters.

I fear risk of injury to self or damage to expensive dies should and when this new cheap part fails. I can no longer recommend this press to my customers if this aluminum bushing is to be used.

I request consideration be given in the replacement of these cheap part to something stronger. I also request to have two or more replacement all steel original bushings (Lee Part # BP2979) sent to me as soon as possible two be used with the two Lee Classic cast presses I just purchased.

Please feel free to forward this message to whomever it may concern.

Sincerely,

Brian Thurner
PO BOX 1783
Hood River, OR
97031

Owner BTSNIPER llc.
541-436-4095

[BT Sniper]

Am I over reacting here? Yesterday was a bit of a challenge on short sleep but.... Maybe all I saw was the hit to my bottom line in the additional $$$ it will cost me to replace this part while continuing to offer this press to my customers.

Anyone think this aluminum breech lock adapter is a improvement to the Classic? Is it going to be as strong as the original steel? Should we be forced to find out at our own risk?

Well we shall see what Lee's reply is before I post reviews on all the big box online stores regarding this new change.

I'm off my soap box for now, going back to work.....

Swage on!

BT

[BT Sniper]

I did a quick little test with this new part. I put a solid die blank in the press and a solid 1/2 threaded bolt in the ram of my Lee Classic press. Press is set on the short stroke extra leverage setting. I covered the press with a thick blanket should anything fly apart and then proceeded to apply a good deal of pressure, more then is normally used in most of our swaging......... everything held tight. I probably could have applied more pressure but dang it I didn't want to break anything else.

So maybe I am over reacting but...... darn it..... everything was good before and "proven" to work.

WAIT!!!

Ok It "might" be strong enough but one thing that is going to be a big PITA...... guess what happens when you tighten down a die in this new breech lock bushing and then try to remove the die from the press!

https://i.imgur.com/wciRY94l.jpg

YEP! Bushing comes out now locked to the die as there is nothing that locks the bushing in the press!

Removing the bushing that is now stuck to the die is going to be a challenge for any typical user. They will try to grab the small knurled ring that is .092" thick with a pair of pliers, when that doesn't work they will attempt to clamp on to the narrow .140" unthreaded portion at the bottom of the bushing and when that doesn't work the only thing left to grab on to is the large threaded portion of the bushing and then it becomes useless as the threads will no doubt get screwed up..... unless you have a three jaw chuck and a lathe then it is easy to clamp on to the unthreaded portion and remove it but how many everyday users of the Lee Classic are going to have a lathe?

Dang it! This is why I find it hard to justify Lee products some times. You would think they tested this, maybe they did? Maybe they figure it will be a hassle to the customer and force them to by the expensive breech lock adapters putting more money in their pocket...... buy a $140 press and then spend $5 per adapter for every possible die you ever need to use in the press! Sound familiar? Reminds me of printers now days! By $100 printer spend $15 per ink cartridge that runs out every month or two.

Problem with the classic cast press now is there is no pin that locks the 7/8-14 threaded adapter in place. I have not bought or used the Lee Breech lock press but it looks like there is a pin in the top of that press that "supposedly" keeps adapters in place. The classic has no such option. I still do not recommend the Lee Breech lock press though.


BT

[Zbench]

BT,

Yet another reason to use a real swaging press, not one designed for reloading cartridge brass. If Lee offered this for swaging, I think you would have a point. But, it's a reloading press, and I'm sure it will more than stand up to the pressures involved in squeezing and forming brass. Sort of like expressing surprise when your Ford Ranger Truck can't haul 4000 pounds in the bed.

Regards,

Pete

[badgeredd]

To me, it seems like Lee should offer either style bushing as an option. IMHO though, I think a fellow would be better off getting a stronger press for swaging like a RCBS Rock Chucker. I have had some issues with the Classic Cast press when trying to re-form or convert brass for some larger cartridges that are either a wildcat or obsolete. Therefore, I have a RCBS for heavy duty work as well as a Classic Cast for reloading.

[BT Sniper]

In regard to Zbench's comment yet not dirrected at Zbench personally......(by the time I finished my reply badgeredd had posted his coment)

yep... but..... darn it..... the Classsic worked just fine, and still does (with steel bushing), it just makes my attempt at recommending them more difficult when quality components are swapped for cheaper ones. Sure a designated swage press is designed to withstand more pressure then a typical reloading press but.... here is a question...... what do we consider a "real swage press"?????

That is a good question to think about and I'll ask to all of us here with no bias opinion or intentions......... what do we consider a "real swage press"

I bet all answers would be the ANEAT press built here or Corbin/RCE right?



All the top carbide swage die makers and a few others set up their dies to be used in "reloading" presses! Ulrich, Rorschach, Niemi, Orginal RCBS, SAS, BTSniper, CH-4d (and possibly others I have not mentioned or forgot) all use relaoding presses, either the Lee Classic or Redding Big Boss, I have even seen these dies set up on a RCBS ammo master press. You know the only swage dies I can think of at the moment that are not designed to work with a reloading press is Corbin, RCE, Blackmon and the old swage-o-matic dies. Then there is the old saying......The RCBS press started as what?????? the Rock Chucker Bullet Swage press right :) So maybe it is all the original "swage" presses from long ago that have been reduced in quality and strength to make the cheap "reloading" presses of today.

Granted I am pretty certain all these converted reloading presses of today have some upgraded components supplied by the maker of the dies. New rams, stronger linkages, etc. just like I supply with the Lee. With these improvements any number of decent reloading presses can make a pretty darn good swage press. I suppose there is the argument as to what size bullet one wishes to make and most all of the top quality die makers I mentioned above are typically making 6mm-30 cal bullets in the 60-130 grain range, well within the pressure abilities of a decent reloading press but to make a 375 grain 500 cal bullet or a 400 grain .458 bullet or experimental bullets from scrap brass then the strong press makes it much easier.

But some of the most accurate benchrest bullets in the world are still made on a Lee Classic Cast press, look up BIB bullets on the score boards of any benchrest match.

It is something to think about..... what do you all consider a "real swage press" built Ford Tough? Only the RCE, CSP or DIY (ANEAT) I suppose, right?

Anyway I got to get up off this computer and get to work...

Thanks for listening to my rants!

Swage on!

Brian

[BT Sniper]

After all my rants..... I'll still recommend the Lee Classic Cast press with the advise that a one piece steel reducer bushing is used in place of any sort of breech lock set up.

Brian

[BT Sniper]

Badgerred,

Yes that is my hope too that Lee will offer the original all steel bushing but I also bet it will take a while for enough reviews from customers reporting any problems with this new set up before they do.

Swage on!

BT

[BT Sniper]

As for the real swage press vs. reloading press.......

I have done quite a bit of testing on a lot of different presses, and I can back up claims to the advantages and disadvantages to nearly all of them. Just like the Ford Ranger shouldn't be expected to haul a 4 ton load, a reloading press shouldn't be expected to swage 400 grain bullets but.... that little Ford Ranger is probably better equipped to navigate a rough back country road or tackle daily driver tasks to the market then a F350 supper duty extended cab dullay would be, just like I can make light weight 55 grain bullets faster on a Lee Classic then I did on my Sea Girt.

Nothing wrong with using a F350 as a daily driver or a CHP-1 press to make 55 grain bullets, obviously but nothing says a Ranger or Lee Classic can't either :)

I'm sure there is a saying...... "for every task there is the correct tool"??? nope... looks like it goes "there is a perfect tool for every task"

I better get to work :) Hope you guys all realize my reloading vs. swage press comments is nothing personal to what anyone is using for their bullet swaging needs. As long as we are making our own bullets no matter what press we are using all is good! But if Lee would quit making ...... Nope not going to go there ..... :)

Swage on!

BT

[Zbench]

For me, a real swage press is my Corbin Hydro, but the Corbin Mighty Mite in either the S or H die size also qualifies. I have all three, hate to be out swaged!

[nicholst55]

Just a thought, if the bushing from other manufacturers will fit the Lee press, why not just STRONGLY recommend that your customers use one of same with your dies? Perhaps even stock some and offer them as an option?

[BT Sniper]

Yep that is what I'll do, until this new bushing proves itself to me.

It may be just as strong, I don't know, I think I was more upset about Lee forcing it upon us with no other option.

BT

[BT Sniper]

EVERYTHING IS COOL AGAIN!


https://i.imgur.com/KeG9lWql.png

https://leeprecision.com/die-adapter-bushing-classic-cast-press.html







Received communication from Lee that they will continue to offer the original steel bushing for the Classic Cast press as an additional purchase option.

Wow.... what a relief for me!

I actually got a reply back this morning from Mr. John Lee himself, president of Lee Precision products, regarding some possible solutions to my stuck bushing problem. I was amazed and honored that the president of a company would take the time to address my concerns

After I had tested the bushing a bit more I spent 3 hours on drafting a detailed and professional reply as to my findings and recommendations to Mr. Lee, in short providing much evidence and support to requesting that they at least make the original one piece all steel bushing available to us that wish to use it instead of this new breech lock set up.

Just as I was looking over the final draft of my carefully worded message getting ready to hit send I happen to check my inbox and there was a reply from another Lee employee. Here is a copy of the reply....

After speaking with John about your feedback this morning, we have decided to offer the steel die adapter bushing as an accessory for those who don't wish to utilize our adapter Breech Lock Bushing feature.


Wow! I felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders as I read this reply and I could breath again, don't know why I get so worked up over these little things but???? anyway... I didn't have to send my long detail message for they had just basically granted the very wish I was asking for at the end of message.

I just had to call Lee Precision and express my gratitude. I said thank you to a few employees then got to thank John as well for their/his decision to continue to offer this original bushing. Makes me feel pretty good knowing the company was willing to work with us customers and support their products, specifically this Lee Classic cast press. SWAGE ON LEE!

Please feel free to click on above link and order this bushing as needed, I don't know how long Lee will support this but did say something along the lines of "as long as there is a demand". I have actually purchased extra pf these bushings in the past to lock a few of my most commonly used dies in so rather then take a die out of the press I take the entire die and bushing out to replace with another that is preset. I happened to spend 2 hours yesterday speaking with Randy Robinett about his use of the Lee Classic to make is BIB bullets. He not only uses the Lee press but also uses the method I spoke of about using an extra bushing for each die he wishes to keep locked in place to a particular setting.

Wow... I feel emotionally drained! Think I'll grab some breakfast and go to work feeling better knowing I won't have to track down any other manufacture's threaded bushings.

BT

[BT Sniper]

I was told their stock is low, matter of fact I think I just ordered the final last two, but I was told they have ordered more material to machine more of these.

Swage on!

BT

[plus1hdcp]

That's great news Brian and it sure is glad to hear a company respond to a customers concern. Especially this time when it works out for both sides.

[rcslotcar]

Great job to Lee!!!

[hollywood63]

What is the outside diameter and thread pitch of the steel bushing

[BT Sniper]

Pretty sure the original steel bushing is 1 1/4-12 threads.

[Lead pot]

I think you guys using the reloading press swage dies would use a RCBS Big Max A-4 press or even the C&H three station H press and use the center die holder for doing this type of work.
The Big Max is one super press I got on for mostly forming wild cat cases and also swaging pistol bullets using the C&H dies also the Hemp and Herters. Hemp made a nice attachment for ejecting the bullets from the die so you don't need to use a rawhide mallet and Herters made a GG swage die and the A-4 press handled these loading press dies in fine shape.
I still have the A-4 but it seldom gets used anymore except for loading long cases as well as the C&H H press.
The Lee might be alright for swaging the little .22 calibers ? but I think something would give when getting into some larger pistol bullets unless they are swaged using pure lead.

[BT Sniper]

For any of you using the current Lee press for swaging with the week aluminum quick change insert..... here is the strong steel original part you will need for swaging.

https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-die-adapter-bushing/

Swage on

Brian