Looking for a piece of MI history

[drac0nic]

Some years ago (but not too many) I bought a brace of S&W revolvers. One is a model 38 (the j-frame "bodyguard" in an air weight. No -, it has a stainless cylinder however. The other gun is a 3" 66-1. These were supposedly carried by a MI State Trooper who purchased his guns when he retired which were then subsequently bought by the guy I bought them from. The .357 would have been carried at the side and the model 38 would be in a cross draw. I presume that's due to the idea of someone coming up on their vehicle. I was wondering if anyone had a picture of one of these wrigs they could post up.

The J-frame has a very canted barrel (throws the sight off about 6" at 7 yards) but I haven't been brave enough to think about sending it in to S&W for repairs. Any thoughts on why I shouldn't?

[Petrol & Powder]

Yes Michigan State Police did issue those J-frames with the stainless cylinders. You can send that gun to S&W to get the barrel issue fixed but they probably will not do that job for free. Because S&W made that gun with the stainless cylinder, you'll probably get it back in the same configuration.
You may be just as well off to find a gunsmith that can set that barrel back and correct that canted front sight.

I don't know if MI State Police issued a shoulder holster for that gun, they may have, or the shoulder holster may have just become a common practice with troopers. The snubnose was intended to be an off-duty & back up gun. MI was a bit progressive in this area; many departments would allow back up guns but few departments would issue them.

That model 38 with the stainless cylinder isn't super rare (S&W made a pretty big batch for MI) but it is super cool ! I would hang onto that gun just for its history.

[drac0nic]

I honestly don't care if it's for free or not I care more about the risk of cracking the frame which I've read is a risk; not exactly a gun that's rare but the idea they are a matched set is what's important in my mind; to the point that if I sell them they'd probably only really go as a pair.

The 66-1 in a 3" is also an order item from what I understand. It seems like Michigan did some order item work and that stuff became a lot more standard in contemporary PDs later on.

It's interesting you say off duty gun. That wasn't what I'd seen when I researched it but may be the case. I have as of yet to see a pic of the cross draw setup (hence me looking for it) to prove what I've seen on other forums. That's part of the reason I'm looking. I think it would be a neat historical companion to these firearms.

[Rick Hodges]

MSP carried/carries the service pistol/revolver crossdraw in a flapped holster. The J-Frame is carried in the strong side pocket of trousers in summer or tunic in inclement weather. The troop who approaches your car all relaxed with his hand in his pocket has that J-frame in his hand.

I have talked with Troops who state they leave the chamber empty on the duty pistol because it is so slow to get into action and easy lose in a tussle. I don't know if that extended to when they carried revolvers. When I retired they were carrying Sig P226's crossdraw and the little shrouded Jframes in their pockets.

[drac0nic]

MSP carried/carries the service pistol/revolver crossdraw in a flapped holster. The J-Frame is carried in the strong side pocket of trousers in summer or tunic in inclement weather. The troop who approaches your car all relaxed with his hand in his pocket has that J-frame in his hand.

I have talked with Troops who state they leave the chamber empty on the duty pistol because it is so slow to get into action and easy lose in a tussle. I don't know if that extended to when they carried revolvers. When I retired they were carrying Sig P226's crossdraw and the little shrouded Jframes in their pockets.

Interesting it's not a cross draw but also interesting that whoever ran the department had that much of an emphasis on firepower accessibility. I would be curious the origin of it since I've never heard of any other department or people doing it. I don't even know that would be politically correct to have policies like that any more! The Israeli Carry thing is also interesting and oddly not surprising considering how "close" the J-frame is to the trooper. If someone made a grab for the main gun it would likely catch them off guard; I've heard of some officers liking a mag safety because if someone makes a grab for their carry gun they can drop the mag and it won't shoot.

ED:Who knew P O s was starred lol.

[Petrol & Powder]

I honestly don't care if it's for free or not I care more about the risk of cracking the frame which I've read is a risk; not exactly a gun that's rare but the idea they are a matched set is what's important in my mind; to the point that if I sell them they'd probably only really go as a pair.

The 66-1 in a 3" is also an order item from what I understand. It seems like Michigan did some order item work and that stuff became a lot more standard in contemporary PDs later on.

It's interesting you say off duty gun. That wasn't what I'd seen when I researched it but may be the case. I have as of yet to see a pic of the cross draw setup (hence me looking for it) to prove what I've seen on other forums. That's part of the reason I'm looking. I think it would be a neat historical companion to these firearms.

A competent gunsmith can face the shoulder on the barrel and achieve the correct orientation of the front sight without cracking the frame. That may or may not require setting the barrel back one thread, depending on where the front sight will end up when the barrel is tight. Obviously, Smith & Wesson can do that work but so can competent gunsmith's.

[samari46]

My old boss had a buddy who was in the NYC PD. He carried not one but two steel framed Model 36's. This in addition to his daily carry firearm. Ah the famous New York reload. And this is going back a good 40 years ago. I see nothing wrong with a J frame. Just remember a gun in hand is way better than no gun. A good friend once told me that the J frame is a one gun fight. Even if you have extra ammo,speed strips or even speed loaders the perp will get to you before you have loaded your 5 rounds. I've carried my Sig P6 which holds 7-8 rounds, but with extra mags. Is the P6 accurate, sure is, I used it to qualify for my states lifetime carry permit. We fired over 200 rounds that day. Every round went into the kill zone of the target. And I had not shot for a couple years. Frank

[Petrol & Powder]

My old boss had a buddy who was in the NYC PD. He carried not one but two steel framed Model 36's. This in addition to his daily carry firearm. Ah the famous New York reload. And this is going back a good 40 years ago. I see nothing wrong with a J frame. Just remember a gun in hand is way better than no gun. A good friend once told me that the J frame is a one gun fight. Even if you have extra ammo,speed strips or even speed loaders the perp will get to you before you have loaded your 5 rounds. I've carried my Sig P6 which holds 7-8 rounds, but with extra mags. Is the P6 accurate, sure is, I used it to qualify for my states lifetime carry permit. We fired over 200 rounds that day. Every round went into the kill zone of the target. And I had not shot for a couple years. Frank

NYPD had a long history with DA revolvers chambered in 38 Special (they never authorized the .357 mag). NYPD's training saved the lives of a lot of officers. The little J-frames were very popular with NYPD officers as back up guns back in the revolver days. The vast majority of gunfights were over before a reload was necessary but a "New York Reload" (accessing a second gun) was a real tactic used by many street savvy cops.
If you study gunfights, you realize that reloading is almost never required and if it is, it is best done behind cover. However, when reloading a DA revolver, it doesn't need to be full to capacity to work. The statement, "Even if you have extra ammo, speed strips or even speed loaders the perp will get to you before you have loaded your 5 rounds."
displays the fallacy of attempting to reload a revolver to its full capacity under stress. If needed, the gun will function with less than its full capacity. If you need to close a partially full cylinder in order to get back in the fight, that's what you do.

As for the SIG P6 [aka P225]; that is an outstanding pistol and one that I've always admired, but we're drifting away from the theme of this thread :-o