How to Anneal Brass Cases

[warren5421]

How do you anneal large BP cases? I shoot pistol BP so don't anneal my cases but shooting .45-70's I need to anneal the cases so that they last longer than 3-4 shootings.

[Reverend Al]

Two years ago I finally broke down and bought myself an Annealeez automatic annealing unit. I'd been hand annealing for years, but this little unit takes a LOT of the work out of the process. I anneal all of my brass regardless of calibre, it just lasts longer that way.

https://i.imgur.com/ZA9SXZe.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ezU773G.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/A6EKF6G.jpg

[RedlegEd]

^^^^+1 on what Reverend Al says! I've annealed "manually" and hot salts method, but since I got my Annealeze II, (https://annealeez.com/) it has made annealing cases much easier, more efficient, and more precise. It comes with a standard wheel set to do my "normal" rifle brass (.260 REM, .300 Sav, .308, .30-06, etc.,) and I bought the large wheel kit so I can also do .45-70. Once you get it set up and running, you get a case perfectly done every 5-6 seconds. That means you can get ~600/hr if you really get after it.
Ed

[JM7.7x58]

Cell phone running a metronome program. Set at 1 second interval.

Propane plumbers torch. Set as low as it can go, and reliably stay lit. Inner flame focused on shoulder.

Tempilstik temp sticks. Just to verify that the base isn’t getting overheated.

1/2” Dewalt Drill motor with the handle attachment replaced with all-thread and bolted to a 2x4board (this acts as a pivot/hinge)

Sliding bar clamp, for attaching the 2x4 to your bench.

1/4” hex to 3/8” socket driver adapter, w/deep well socket.

Bucket of water.

Strip of electrical tape, to set the drill motor speed.

Focus inner flame on shoulder, count to 8, pivot, quench, load socket, repeat.

360 per hour.

Cost = nothing: l had everything in the basement already.

JM

[RU shooter]

I do a simple method using my cordless drill with a suitable sized spud in the chuck . I have the drill clamped in my vice and the torch sitting on my table aimed at the spud where the case mouth will be . Just insert your case onto the spud with drill turning on low speed I do a count to 5-6 then grab the base and remove , and repeat , when you grab the base to remove and it's too warm to hold decrease the count . For my spud I just use something that will closely fit the case mouth for 30 cal I use a small tapered drift and the case mouth ends up at the same position every time .

[georgerkahn]

I pretty much anneal all rifle cases! For most I use the Girraud machine (pictured here), and for cases I don't have a Girraud wheel for, my two other methods are holding the case in an inverted automotive socket which has a nut-bolt through bottom, chucked in a cordless drill; or, using a Bernzomatic head purveyed by Todd Kindler of the Woodchuck Den254319
Annealing assures a more-consistent (imho) bullet grip, as well as providing significantly more life to the brass.
geo

[6bg6ga]

I made one several years back it worked ok for what it was.

I hope no one tries to anneal loaded rounds. I had a fellow ask me one time if he could anneal what he already had loaded and I simply asked him if he enjoyed living. The conversation ended.

[MT Gianni]

Set the lp torch at desired level. Put the 1/4" x 1/4 socket adapter in a battery operated drill and a 1/2" deep socket in it. Insert the case in the socket, then in the flame while turning until you see a color change. Dump into a bucket of water and repeat.

[leadhead]

I would love to see a video of that thing working.
Denny

[Wally]

I would love to see a video of that thing working.
Denny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33z2hflbSY&t=169s

[Conditor22]

Have any of you used or built an induction heater electronic module + brass heating coil unit?

[fastdadio]

Set the lp torch at desired level. Put the 1/4" x 1/4 socket adapter in a battery operated drill and a 1/2" deep socket in it. Insert the case in the socket, then in the flame while turning until you see a color change. Dump into a bucket of water and repeat.

Why do you dump the hot cases into water? Wouldn't that re-temper/harden the brass? I was under the impression that allowing a metal to cool slowly was the proper way to remove hardness.

[Dusty Bannister]

Quenching the brass case does not harden the brass. It does keep the head area from annealing so it does not get too soft. You only want to anneal the case mouth and neck area.

[DHDeal]

I bought a Vertex annealer about 5 years back. I had annealed with a Lee 3 jaw spindle for a while, but the Vertex makes it ridiculously easy. I even anneal my revolver brass as I can set the flames and dwell time where I want. It wasn't cheap, but it has been worth it.

If I were in the market for an annealer now, I'd probably get the AMP.

[georgerkahn]

Why do you dump the hot cases into water? Wouldn't that re-temper/harden the brass? I was under the impression that allowing a metal to cool slowly was the proper way to remove hardness.
Good question! Without getting into metallurgy, the quick, accurate, and short answer is, in caps, YOU DO NOT WANT THE BOTTOM OF YOUR CASE TO BE ANNEALED!!!
Once brass is annealed, it is softened. You'll read great advice to use a temperature indicating chemical such as Temp-Laq 750* to ascertain you get the case neck at the correct temp to anneal the brass. But -- reason for the caps ;) - you do NOT wish to anneal the brass cartridge base. Should this happen, the brass will not have the strength to withstand the high pressures from powder burning gasses -- with a high probability for catastrophic, dangerous consequences. The cases are dropped in the water to keep the high temperature used to anneal the neck from migrating down and (oops) annealing the bottom.
Hope this answers -- there a (literal) tons in this site, as well as elsewhere on Internet re annealing, too.
BEST!
geo

[Conditor22]

My understanding is:
Quenching the brass will stop the brass from heating up but won't stop the brass from reaching to hot a temperature. The old NRA method you put the piece of brass in the center of a cake pan 2/3 full of water sitting on a turntable which rotated the pan/brass at a slow speed. the water in this instance kept the lower part of the brass from getting too hot.
People quench so they can handle the brass sooner -- BUT -- now they have wet brass and have to dry it instead of just waiting a few minutes for it to cool [smilie=b:

My 2¢ worth

[megasupermagnum]

You are doing something very wrong if you are only getting 4 loadings on a 45-70 shooting black powder.

I've gone this long in my life and never once needed to anneal a case. That is until recently I needed to form 444 marlin into 309 JDJ and it wouldn't form unless annealed (brand new Starline brass). On non-wildcat cartridges, it's not all that necessary for anything besides the highest of pressure bottle neck cases. Even 6mm Remington, I got 15 loadings before I ditched the brass, never annealed.

[fatelk]

I know a lot of guys use the method with a drill and socket, but all I've ever done is twist the case slowly in my fingers, wait for that slight color change and stop just before it would glow. It's super quick and easy, been doing it that way for many years. I've never burnt my finger or used any temp crayons or sockets. It works for me. One of those annealing machines would be nice, but I think I could about keep pace with one, at least for a while. :)

[waco]

I use the Bench Source Vertex
https://youtu.be/RHa30N9kQKY

[MT Gianni]

I toss it in water as the end of the case is now both hot and softer. I want it in one place and don't want something hard landing on it. I also want to pay attention to what I'm doing which is watching the next case in the flame.

[kevin c]

So, to make sure I understand, brass alloys do not quench harden like iron alloys (steel) and lead alloys (boolit material)? Or is it the temperature range for annealing different from what is needed for quench hardening?

[Wayne Smith]

Nope, you were right the first time. Brass does not quench harden, it work hardens.

[McFred]

Have any of you used or built an induction heater electronic module + brass heating coil unit?

I've built several for myself, family and friends. I'll never go back to a torch, socket and drill.

https://vimeo.com/279384452

[barnabus]

You are doing something very wrong if you are only getting 4 loadings on a 45-70 shooting black powder.

I've gone this long in my life and never once needed to anneal a case. That is until recently I needed to form 444 marlin into 309 JDJ and it wouldn't form unless annealed (brand new Starline brass). On non-wildcat cartridges, it's not all that necessary for anything besides the highest of pressure bottle neck cases. Even 6mm Remington, I got 15 loadings before I ditched the brass, never annealed.

lol...annealing brass is not just to avoid splits. every experienced " hand loader" knows that consistent neck tension is critical to accuracy...a "reloader" doesn't and sees no need to anneal and says what you just did.

[lightman]

Back during the shortages of 2007, 2008, 2009 it seems like everyones QC slipped. I was having a high % of new unfired Winchester brass split on the first firing. The brass was fairly inexpensive, if you could find in, but I put a lot of work in it. Trimming, deburring, primer pockets, flash holes, sometimes even neck turning. So I bought a Giraud annealing machine. It works great!

Before that, I used melted lead to anneal my brass. It also worked well but it was very "hands on".

[country gent]

I use a variation on the molten lead. my pot is filled with a very fine silica sand. It has a rack the case are set in and into the sand. Tempering is a temperature vs time for our use the temps need higher and faster to avoid it getting into the head. There are many ways to do this and finding what works for you is the thing.

[dondiego]

I've built several for myself, family and friends. I'll never go back to a torch, socket and drill.

https://vimeo.com/279384452

What caliber are you annealing there? They look tiny!

[Dimner]

I anneal using a spirit lamp/candle and my fingers. Very easy, clean and quiet way to anneal brass while I'm watching the TV with my beloved. Or catching up on shows on netflix. Or hanging out at the cottage with family, or... or... or...

I'm the guy who always needs something to do with his hands.

[McFred]

What caliber are you annealing there? They look tiny!

.223 Rem in the vid. I imagine the vertical perspective makes it look stubby. For a friend, I've annealed .22 Spitwad (.224 Spitfire cut short to 1.150 case length; 30 carbine parent case)

20-round M1 Carbine magazine:
https://i.postimg.cc/tT8xjGc1/spitwad-Ammo.jpg

[megasupermagnum]

lol...annealing brass is not just to avoid splits. every experienced " hand loader" knows that consistent neck tension is critical to accuracy...a "reloader" doesn't and sees no need to anneal and says what you just did.

Right... So every real hand loader out there has a fancy annealing machine. Nothing says "accurate" like a guy with a propane torch and a socket.

[fatelk]

I've built several for myself, family and friends. I'll never go back to a torch, socket and drill.

https://vimeo.com/279384452

That's pretty cool; I like it. I do have one question though. All the "experts" say that if you get the brass hot enough to glow, it's completely ruined and must be scrapped. I've wondered to what degree that's true. I see some pretty bright, glowing brass in your video. How has that brass been working? I assume that since you've built several it must be shooting OK?

I've been doing it my own way for years, and it works for me. Threads like this are interesting in that there are many ways of doing things, and I often learn something new.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve recently been annealing my .45/70 brass using a length of cleaning rod with a .45cal bronze brush chucked in the mini lathe. I set a propane torch in the right spot and count the time needed. I then pull it off with a gloved hand and put on another. So far it seems to be working well for me.

[McFred]

I do have one question though. All the "experts" say that if you get the brass hot enough to glow, it's completely ruined and must be scrapped. I've wondered to what degree that's true. I see some pretty bright, glowing brass in your video. How has that brass been working? I assume that since you've built several it must be shooting OK?

Haha, there's always that one guy... It's hot for the sake of capturing it on "film." The camera doesn't work nearly as well in the dark, looking for a very faint dull red, and makes for uninteresting videos. So, yes, my video's cooking some scrap/setup brass into oblivion for show.

[sixgunner452]

Dimner, I anneal in the flame of a common household candle. I read an article a while back, stated it is the perfect temp. It seems to work too. Randy.

LINK HERE https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/BenchTopics%2021-LR.pdf

[fatelk]

Haha, there's always that one guy... It's hot for the sake of capturing it on "film." The camera doesn't work nearly as well in the dark, looking for a very faint dull red, and makes for uninteresting videos. So, yes, my video's cooking some scrap/setup brass into oblivion for show.

OK thanks, that makes sense. I've always been careful to avoid getting the brass hot enough to glow, but have wondered just how critical that really is.

[Dimner]

Dimner, I anneal in the flame of a common household candle. I read an article a while back, stated it is the perfect temp. It seems to work too. Randy.

LINK HERE https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/BenchTopics%2021-LR.pdf

That's the article I read too!! I did start out with a household candle, but the soot made me grumpy. I didn't want to have to tumble again after annealing. So I made a spirit lamp out of a small jar (used to be a relish jar). Drill a string sized hole in the lid. Then off near the edge put another pin sized hole for air flow... fill 1/3 with denatured alcohol, run household cotton twine for a wick and your in business, soot free. No more black fingers!

[sixgunner452]

Dimner, I just do as the article says, damp towel to wipe off soot. Low cost, the volume I need to anneal it works. The spirit lamp is a great idea. Randy.

[dondiego]

Haha, there's always that one guy... It's hot for the sake of capturing it on "film." The camera doesn't work nearly as well in the dark, looking for a very faint dull red, and makes for uninteresting videos. So, yes, my video's cooking some scrap/setup brass into oblivion for show.

I could see where those fellows who use 9MM and 40S&W brass to form/swage bullets could use this item. You have to completely soften the brass cases in order to swage the lead core and casing into a bullet.