35 Rem load data

[mattd]

My Lyman manual says 19.5g of 2400 is max load at 26600cup firing a 195gr cast bullet.

The 220gr jacketed bullet next to it maxes out at 35000cup.

I imagine there’s more concern with an old lever gun, but I’m working on a 14” contender.

19.0gr of 2400 worked pretty well w my 185gr NOE WFN. No pressure signs. I’d like to work my way up to try and tighten the groups up a bit. And it seems like the book is pretty conservative. Or am I missing something?

253877

[CamoWhamo]

I've shot 2 different cast loads with 19gn of 2400.
One was with the RCBS 358-200-FN and the other was a flat base clone of it.

Bullet weight was 212gn & 214gn and both chronographed at 1650fps.

I use Quickload software and it estimates the pressure to be 20,500psi.

[1006]

I believe: The load manual limits the pressure with lead bullets because the high velocity and pressure lead to leading and inaccuracy. You can go higher, but accuracy may not be good.

[uscra112]

^^^ I think that's it. ^^^

I'd look very hard at Lil'Gun for your application. Less peak pressure for a given velocity. Best heavy bullet powder in my .357 Max.

Example: Quickload says to get 1800 fps. in a 14" barrel .35 Rem requires 26.8k psi peak pressure using Lil'Gun. Same model but using 2400, the pressure is 30.8k to get 1800.

Years ago I burned a lot of XMP5744 in the .35 Rem. with a 200 gr. RNGC, and got good results, but I wouldn't give it a second look today, even though I've got several pounds still sealed.

[cwlongshot]

5744 is my choice. Yes, many/most cast rifle loads are peaked by a low Arbitrary pressure level (say 25-35K) rather than max pressure recommended for the caliber.

Very much dislike lil Gun. Pressure spikes and it burns too hot for me to be comfortable with.

AA1680, trumps everything in my Maxis.

CW

[uscra112]

There is no such thing as a powder that "burns too hot". Boyle's Law holds no matter who or where you are. At any given pressure, the temperature is the same regardless.

There are powders that are more or less erosive, but that's a matter of the chemistry of the product gases, not temperature.

"Pressure spikes"? Hard evidence? Never saw anything like when testing in the .357 Maximum. It's one of the powders that Bellm recommends for 160-180 grain jacketed bullets, isn't it?

That said, there's nothing wrong with trying 1680 in a short barrel .35 Rem, either.

[cwlongshot]

There is no such thing as a powder that "burns too hot". Boyle's Law holds no matter who or where you are. At any given pressure, the temperature is the same regardless.

There are powders that are more or less erosive, but that's a matter of the chemistry of the product gases, not temperature.

"Pressure spikes"? Hard evidence? Never saw anything like when testing in the .357 Maximum. It's one of the powders that Bellm recommends for 160-180 grain jacketed bullets, isn't it?

That said, there's nothing wrong with trying 1680 in a short barrel .35 Rem, either.

My friend. Question asked and answers.

The powder burns hot. Heat excessive heat kills barrels. This powder burns excessively hot. I can use other powder and shoot Longer WITHOUT overheating my chamber and barrel.

As for proof are you kidding me? You live under a rock? It dosnet like to be compressed a d when it is you will see your sd’s all over the map. I know its a popular powder and might not me a pleasing thing to read your favorite isnt loved everywhere. You like it more power to al enjoy life.

My reply was offered free of charge if it dosent suit you file it and walk away. “Bellm” aint all knowing and he aint the only one with a trigger finger and a brain.

CW

[RU shooter]

To the op I'm sure you have your reasons but why load it with such fast powders (2400) ? Yes I see your using a 14" barrel but the 35 don't suffer to bad in shorter barrels with rifle powders at lower pressures . I also load the 35 in a bolt action 18" rifle and yes book data is pretty tame I agree . You might want to look at some faster rifle powders I've had good luck with AA 2015 and 2230 and similar even mid speed powderslike 4895and 2520 have decent vel in 14" with pressures in the 27-30k range per the accurate manual 38 gr of 2520 is 1875 fps with 200 gr rcbs bullet just food for thought

[uscra112]

My friend. Question asked and answers.

The powder burns hot. Heat excessive heat kills barrels. This powder burns excessively hot. I can use other powder and shoot Longer WITHOUT overheating my chamber and barrel.

As for proof are you kidding me? You live under a rock? It dosnet like to be compressed a d when it is you will see your sd’s all over the map. I know its a popular powder and might not me a pleasing thing to read your favorite isnt loved everywhere. You like it more power to al enjoy life.

My reply was offered free of charge if it dosent suit you file it and walk away. “Bellm” aint all knowing and he aint the only one with a trigger finger and a brain.

CW

Who the H loads Lil-Gun compressed? We don't do that even in the little Hornet case?

I will file your "advice" as you suggest, and others should, too. Myths like that have no place at the loading bench.

[cwlongshot]

Happy New Year my friend.

I didnt realize anyone needed your approval to have an option different from yours.

I Hope the light of our lord shines upon you.

CW

[uscra112]

If you are willing to listen, I'll show you why your barrels seem to get hotter than with, say 5744. It's a simple explanation.

[Dinny]

I can't imagine loading more than 19gr of 2400 into the small 35 Rem case when using 16gr in a 308 or 30-06 is considered a universal favorite. There are old reloaders and bold reloaders but few old, bold reloaders.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

Thanks, Dinny

[mattd]

Maybe cause those are 30cal? 19.5g in my 35 whelen with the same 185 WFN as I'm using here gave excellent accuracy and seemed to be a relatively light load.

[cwlongshot]

Seems 15-20g of 2400 (many diff calibers W/cast) is widely used going by all the posts I have read thru the years.

I seem to hover 16/17 in most calibers. My most accurate after many dozens of frustrating loads in a ‘Tender 30/30 before I found 16.5g 2400 made it a one hole shooter.

Unique is another I use alot for plinker cast. 5744, 4227 and RL7 for “hunting loads” altho not 35 Rem specific. More cast in general. I do, shoot more 35 calibers from the lil 357 sig to my big lady Norma Magnum.

CW

[Dinny]

Maybe cause those are 30cal?

And maybe cause they, like the 35 Whelen, have a case capacity of more than 51gr of water. 2400 wasn't made for rifle applications, fortunately it does have some use in them though. Personally I would look to a different powder before I loaded more than a book max without talking to the powder company first.

Thanks, Dinny

[MT Gianni]

Every container of 2400 I have ever purchased says "Rifle powder" on it.

[Dinny]

Mine says, "Smokeless magnum pistol powder. Great for .357,.41 and .44 Magnum high velocity loads"

Thanks, Dinny

[uscra112]

2400 was originally marketed as THE powder for the Hornet. Claim was you got 2400 fps with some bullet or other. So yeah, it was/is a "rifle powder" that has application in pistols. Fair is fair - we use a lot of pistol powders in our rifles. And Lil'Gun was introduced as a shotgun powder.

In the .35 Rem., even 22 grains of 2400 wouldn't be unsafe, but it would stress a cast bullet too much for accuracy, unless the alloy were very hard.

[cwlongshot]

I dont have a bottle to check, Mine is from my buddy when I ran out and couldnt find any last summer. ;)

But its a long time cast bullet powder no doubt. I have a few “CAST BULLET LOADS” manuals. Early ones where mostly Red Dot, Unique and 2400. Nearly same loads all calibers too. :)

Matt,

Most cast loads are established at a pressure as lead usually wants less pressure. Super hard bullets can sometimes be pushed harder and of coarse GC bullets too. But even then its still a lead progectile and they simply shoot beat with the lower pressures.
Its fun as some like that kick in the **** others not. Many things happening. Too hard and they dont obturate and can have those hot gas and high pressures up alongside/beside bullet. Many times causing leading always causing inaccuracy. Dont think jacked loads more often then not its a light switch from a inaccurate load to a very accurate on. Something generally not seen in jacketed. Most of my cast are now powder coated changing things again! But thats the fun of it. Like solving a mystery and you have to pay attention to Whats going on to figure it all out.

Good luck, CW

[Good Cheer]

Plastic deformation of the boolit base kills accuracy.
When trying to develop higher velocity cast loads you sometimes have to create work arounds to avoid it.
The "slow powder" formula of flattening and elongating the pressure spike behind the boolit is sometimes a good thing to try. Depending upon the cartridge, the boolit and the piece you might find an unreasonably slow powder lit off with the hottest available primer to be beneficial in trying to whooosh the boolit on its way. Same idea as the duplex and triplex loadings of long ago but without quite so much sweat dripping into your eyes.

PS,
No sir, not gonna try it in a .35 Remington lever gun.

[Larry Gibson]

My Lyman manual says 19.5g of 2400 is max load at 26600cup firing a 195gr cast bullet.

The 220gr jacketed bullet next to it maxes out at 35000cup.

I imagine there’s more concern with an old lever gun, but I’m working on a 14” contender.

19.0gr of 2400 worked pretty well w my 185gr NOE WFN. No pressure signs. I’d like to work my way up to try and tighten the groups up a bit. And it seems like the book is pretty conservative. Or am I missing something?

253877

Back in the day when that manual was published Lyman accuracy tested (50 yards....:?) the loads. That 359430 is also a PB'd bullet so the load listed does pretty much max it out accuracy wise....nothing to do with pressure.

I use 32 gr IMR4895 under a RCBS 35-200-FC which is a GC'd bullet. It runs 2162 fps out of my 35 Rem [M91 Argentine rebarreled with a 26" Shilen barrel] at 41,000 psi as measured in that barrel via a M43 Oehler PBL. You might try the RCBS or Lee equivalent GC'd bullet with IMR. Your Contender can Handle that load but suggest you work up as you may not like the recoil.