.30-06 and Unique

[richhodg66]

253859

Been messing with a custom target rifle built on a '98 Mauser action in .30-06, which I got an excellent deal on, apparently no one else wanted such a rifle and I got it for the opening bid. So far, I'd been rather unimpressed, but started working with the 311284 and shot this target this afternoon at 100 yards using it, sized to .309 with 12 grains of Unique.

That's a nine shot group, the bullseye is a Xerox copy of a standard 10 meter air rifle target, the black is probably a one inch circle.

The bullets I used were some I cast years ago, not sure how many more of them I have, gonna have to dig out that mold and get to work, I think.

[Texas by God]

That is nice!

[RedlegEd]

Rich,
Sweet! Now try the 311413 and NOE 30XCB to see how they shoot.
Ed

[Ben]

Impressive !

[swheeler]

Rich very nice! I like 100 yd groups

[richhodg66]

Rich,
Sweet! Now try the 311413 and NOE 30XCB to see how they shoot.
Ed

Ed, this rifle does not seem to care for that XCB bullet for some reason. I have a .308 I want to try it in.

I was really sure I had a single cavity of the 311413 in my stuff and you got me interested in trying it, but when I looked, it turned out to be the 311414. Might still be a good one. I read where it's designed for the .300 Savage of which I have a couple, so might be a good one to try.

This 311284 has been a performer in a few other rifles of mine. It's odd this rifle seems to like a smaller sizeing diameter. I still have to seat this deep enough that some of the bullet base is inside the case. My guesstimate on velocity is about 1400ish FPS. Looking closely at the holes, there may be just a tiny bit of yaw, might try to up that load a little at a time and see where accuracy goes.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

That Lyman 311284 works in my A3 Springfield (scoped), 30.5gns 3031 gives it 1740fps, this 10 shot sub MOA group was the second for my day on the range.

https://i.imgur.com/SabiU6D.jpg

[richhodg66]

That Lyman 311284 works in my A3 Springfield (scoped), 30.5gns 3031 gives it 1740fps, this 10 shot sub MOA group was the second for my day on the range.

https://i.imgur.com/SabiU6D.jpg

I think a group that small would exceed my abilities as a shooter. Was this with iron sights?

I am thinking of experimenting with some slower powders, probably IMR 4895. I used to shoot this bullet with the old Lyman manual's recommended most accurate load of 22 grains of SR4759, but I don't have very much of it left and it's now discontinued.

[gnoahhh]

Geez, Rich, I wish we were neighbors- I would give you some of my stash of 4759. Have you tried 2400, Rl-7?

I recently picked up a pre-war 1903 T-style heavy target rifle (rebarreled by John Dubiel circa 1936-7). It likes the NOE 309-169 Elco spitzer shaped bullet, cast fairly hard bhn 15-16, with pretty much any 4759 load between 20-24 grains or 20 grains 2400. The 4759 is tops (5/8-3/4 MOA) but the 2400 is pretty close. (But in full disclosure it gets done with a 16x Unertl scope mounted on it.)

RL-7 at 25 grains and that 311284 in another Springfield gives sub-MOA too. (A 1903A1 USMC sniper clone, with 8x Unertl.)

Gotta love these old .30-06 target rifles our fathers and grandfathers won long range matches with. The old guys knew what they were doing.

[GregLaROCHE]

Tell us more about the rifle. What’s the barrel like? Heavy? Any pictures ?

[richhodg66]

I'm going to try some 2400. Honestly, I have a lot of Unique and if it'll do this well consistently, I may just stick with it. I bought this rifle just to informal target shoot, and it's unlikely it'll ever see longer than 100 yards very often. This is a nice, economical load.

The rifle is nothing special, really, I wanted a heavy barreled .30-06, just because I think the longer neck and a few other things about it make it better than the .308. Someone had built one on a Mauser '98 and was selling it on gunbroker, I minimum bided and won. Nice rifle, the guy did a good job. For what I wanted, I might should have bit the bullet and bought one of those Remington Long Range since they're the only .30-06 heavy available, but I don't care much for Remington 700s and this was cheaper.

[RU shooter]

Try upping the load of unique till you hit the next accuracy node for me it was in the 14-15 gr range I've always had better accuracy with unique the warmer loads

[richhodg66]

Try upping the load of unique till you hit the next accuracy node for me it was in the 14-15 gr range I've always had better accuracy with unique the warmer loads

I will try that. I know I have a bunch of these around I cast years ago which are not sized or lubed, been a couple of moves ago, once I do, I'll start experimenting. It sure would be nice to have a great, consistent load that uses a cheap and easily available powder.

[gnoahhh]

Rich, I might have to drive out to Kansas one of these days!

Warm Unique loads always worked better in '06's for me too.

[richhodg66]

Spent some time working with this rifle today mainly trying the 311291 since it's generally a good bullet in most things, this rifle doesn't like it. In fact, it hasn't liked much of anything except that one load so far. I began to wonder if that one group was a fluke, so I loaded up ten of the exact same load and had the same results. The one flyer at the bottom was my fault and I called it before I even looked at it.
254095

The 311467 did a good bit better than anything besides that 311284, so the rifle seems to favor heavier bullets. I'll keep playing with it as I get time. Might never get another load to shoot that well.

[richhodg66]

It also turned out those bullets were in fact .311, I got them mixed up with a batch I had sized for a model 70 which likes them smaller.

[charlie b]

I notice that you are not using any bore riding designs. Those seem to work best in my .308. 311299, RCBS 165SIL and even the Lee 309-180. I have had good luck with IMR4198, IMR4895 and Varget.

[Larry Gibson]

Aren't the 311284 and 311291 bore riders?

[arlon]

Interesting. I have an old Ideal 308284 mould, suspect it didn't change much when Lyman took over. I recently got 8lbs of Unique. I have a nice custom 1917 enfield I got cheap because it wasn't a 6.5mm something. Has long heavy barrel with 1-12 twist, rebarreled by Robert Findley.. Need to test that load out. I haven't tried any heavy bullets in 1:12 twist gun. I suspect the 308284 will be long for this gun but I'm sure going to try it out.

[richhodg66]

I'm surprised no other bullet even comes close. That 311291 is generally a good one in almost any .30.

I'll try sme slower powders and still have several designs to try. I have quite a few of these I cast up years ago, but I may need to dig that mold out and go on a casting binge if that's what this rifle likes.

[fcvan]

Some years ago my dad loaned me his sporterized 03A3, his deer rifle in the 60s and 70s. I remember him working on loads and then going to the range to test them out. He had a load that would put 3 190 gr Boat Tail bullets under a quarter all day long, 3 under a dime on a good day. I remember the first time I shot the rifle and I was warned about the kick and scope bite by my friend's dad. It didn't kick any more or less than a 12 gauge (Dad had me shooting his old Ithaca since I was 8) and I had already read that scope bite can get you more shooting prone. I hit what I aimed at w/o a scope bite. Beautiful rifle, hand checkered by my friend's uncle.

Anyway, I asked Dad 8 years ago if I could try some cast boolits through his rifle and to my surprise he gave me the go ahead. The only mold I had was a Lee C309-150 RF I had bought to load for my wife's 30-30 Winchester 94 she inherited from her grandfather. I should probably bought the 170 RF but the 150 was on sale for 12.50 so what the heck. I first loaded with loads laddered up from 10 to 18 grains of Unique with great success. Well, my measure of success is hitting 'minute of soda can' at 100 yards, off hand. I could not miss all day. BTW, this was lube/sized .310 with Javalina.

This was before I got into powder coating, mostly for 300 BO at the time. Along the way, I bought an NOA 309-150 Spitzer using gas checks I made from aluminum flashing. My powder of choice was IMR4227 for the BO as it fully cycled the BO. The a year or so later I bought a Springfield M1A, and then a Sig 716 Patrol rifle, and a year later a Mossberg Scout Rifle. M1A fully cycled at 24 grains of IMR 4227 which a book load max was 30. I laddered up to 28 grains with consistent accuracy in all 3 308 rifles. Then, I decided to run 28 in the 03A3 knowing the pressure would be less due to the larger case capacity. Same 'minute of soda can' off hand.

I know this is about 30-06 and Unique, and I know I never have to worry about cycling a bolt gun. I will probably go back to Unique for my next 30-06 loads. I might also try Unique in a recently gifted 7.65x53 Argentine Mauser. Bore is pristine, stock has a couple of dings, bluing has a couple of worn spots, but all serial numbers match. I had it checked out, action is sound with no appreciable wear on the bolt and action which I was told it has not been cycled much. That coincides with the previous owner's claim that his brother in-law had only fired about 20 rounds, having purchased the rifle from importer in the mid 1950s supposedly unfired.

None of my load manuals list pressures for the 7.65, but plenty of resources indicate the case capacity is substantially similar to the 303 and 308, and that loads can be worked up using those loads as a starting point. I also know that most cast boolit loads are lower pressure than copper condom loads. I'm sure Unique will be to my go to for for the Argy with little worry of going overboard pressure-wise. Unique just works.

[richhodg66]

I don't have one in front of me, but I'm sure the older Lyman manuals I have include cast bullet data for the 7.65 Argentine. It ought to be great with cast, seems most oversize .30s are.

[izzyjoe]

That's some great shootin'. I have had good luck with the Lee 170 in 308- 30-06 rifles and 2400!

[Oyeboten]

253859

Been messing with a custom target rifle built on a '98 Mauser action in .30-06, which I got an excellent deal on, apparently no one else wanted such a rifle and I got it for the opening bid. So far, I'd been rather unimpressed, but started working with the 311284 and shot this target this afternoon at 100 yards using it, sized to .309 with 12 grains of Unique.

That's a nine shot group, the bullseye is a Xerox copy of a standard 10 meter air rifle target, the black is probably a one inch circle.

The bullets I used were some I cast years ago, not sure how many more of them I have, gonna have to dig out that mold and get to work, I think.

Where's some nice pictures of the Rifle?

I'd like to see what it is!

Great Target!!

I am soon to be loading .30 '06 and I'll keep in mind to try some Unique.

What weight is that Bullet?

[richhodg66]

Nothing really special about the rifle. I wanted a heavy target rifle in .30-06. Except for the Remington 700 Long Range, there isn't a current offering so I found this one on gunbroker and won it for the opening bid. Whoever built it did a nice job, but it isn't really anything special.

The 311284 is nominally 210 grains, they usually drop heavier. Very long bullet, and has been a good shooter for me in .30-06, .30-40 Krag and 7.62x54. My mold is an old single cavity Ideal.

For a 100 yard load, I have doubts I'm going t255459o get much better than that 12 grains of Unique. It's at the point where it shoots as well as I can. So far, IMR 4895 looks promising for a more powerful load.

[izzyjoe]

Sweet rifle! I to have a want for a HB '06, and I have a 98 action, just don't know what barrel to use!

[big bore 99]

Great work. Unique is a very useful powder. My favorite actually.

[richhodg66]

Great work. Unique is a very useful powder. My favorite actually.

It's probably the most useful one out there, and fortunately, I have quite a bit of it.

I inherited a big lot of 700X for free and have been using that in all kinds of stuff and have to say it's almost as versatile, but doesn't seem to give as good accuracy as Unique in this rifle or the .308 I'm working with, but it's pretty much all I use in my 7x57 and works great. I've burned a bunch of it up in that rifle already and plan to use a lot more.

[Martin Luber]

What are you folks using for lead alloy for heavier loads, and the most precise loads?

ie 30 of 3031 leads badly for me with ww alloy however it was superb at 12-13 unique.

[richhodg66]

These I've been shooting were ones I cast years ago, and it seems to me like I cast them of Lyman #2 or close to it.

What did you size yours to? That load in a .30-06 shouldn't have been too bad.

[Martin Luber]

These I've been shooting were ones I cast years ago, and it seems to me like I cast them of Lyman #2 or close to it.

What did you size yours to? That load in a .30-06 shouldn't have been too bad. l will check that again thanks.

[BigAlofPa.]

The 1st time i shot cast out of my 30.06. Accuracy was bad. Here i was loading to hot with unique. Lymans cast 3rd edition. The starting charge was 17 grains if i recall right. I backed the load down. Then i was doing well.

[richhodg66]

The starting load was 17 grains? Which edition of Lyman book was that? None of mine (I have several) start at anything close to that.

It seems ten grains of Unique is a good place to start in any medium to large rifle case with just about any "normal" weight range cast bullet. That would be a bit hot in a .30-30, but a .308 case or bigger, no problem.

[gnoahhh]

Ditto.

[BigAlofPa.]

It was the 50TH. Under 160 grain cast. 18 grains they have as starting. Sorry for the confusion.

[richhodg66]

Wow! Wonder what they were thinking? That's a lot of Unique.

[BigAlofPa.]

I think it was a publishing error. Other loads before and after that bullet weight are much less. I didn't have the cast editions at the time either. I now have the 3rd and 4th.

[unclemikeinct]

That is one Sweet old rifle. Enjoy it. unclemikeinct

[richhodg66]

That is one Sweet old rifle. Enjoy it. unclemikeinct

Yeah, like they say, she's built for comfort, not speed, LOL.

[charlie b]

FWIW CE Harris recommended 2400 for cast bullet shooting in the .30-06 and similar cartridges.

His 'universal' load for ranges up to 200yd was 16gn 2400 behind 170-180gn bullets. For hunting and out to 600yd he recommended 18-21gn of 2400 and 180-200gn bullets.

[0802]

I deleted my post because there is data for what I was asking about.

My problem is that I’m looking for data on a 311284 with 2400– but the problem is that my boolits are coming in at about 232 grains with GC and lube.

I’m thinking that 18.0 or so would be a safe starting point.

[richhodg66]

A quick check of an old Lyman manual I have from about 1970 shows a starting load with the 311284 as 19 grains and a max load of 24. They list it as a 220 grain bullet, the difference of 12 grains is likely insignificant, that's less than a 5% difference in weight.

[richhodg66]

Does anyone have a lot of experience with the Lee .309 200 2r bullet? So far, and a brief shooting session with a couple of things this afternoon, show that the 311284 shoots circles around anything else in this rifle. I got to looking at the pictures of that Lee bullet and it sure looks similar. Cheap as Lee molds are, might be worth a try. Does Lee make that in a six cavity?

[0802]

Thanks for the info. No experiencing that Lee mold.


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[RedlegEd]

Does anyone have a lot of experience with the Lee .309 200 2r bullet? So far, and a brief shooting session with a couple of things this afternoon, show that the 311284 shoots circles around anything else in this rifle. I got to looking at the pictures of that Lee bullet and it sure looks similar. Cheap as Lee molds are, might be worth a try. Does Lee make that in a six cavity?
Hi Rich,
I used to cast that bullet a lot for my Garands over about 34 gr of H4895 and it shoots/functions very well. The Lee bullet style is very close to the Lyman 311299. Since I also have the NOE clone 311299 clone, I gave the Lee mould to my son so he could cast for his Garand. Sending you a PM. The group below was shot using a Browning B78 in .30-06 at 50yds.
Ed

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