Bad primers?

[ryan28]

I am down to the last 300 of a box of Winchester small pistol primers, and am experiencing about 5% won't fire with the first drop of the hammer in my S&W model 13. Nothing in my reloading has changed, no oil anywhere near the RCBS universal priming tool I use, no moisture or extreme heat changes here at all.
I Have tried seating the primers with a firm seat, almost flattened, and then lightly seated, just under flush, no difference, still 5% fail.
Powder is Winchester 231. 4.9 grains under a 125 grain bullet.
These primers are about 10 years old.
Any Ideas?

[onelight]

Could it be the gun ? Do other loads work well in it now ?

[ryan28]

Can't see it being the gun, all was well until recently with these primers, first 600 or so, no problem. The primers are getting a good whack with the hammer. I have some CCI that I'll try next, see what happens.

[Phlier]

Are the primers showing evidence of being hit nice and hard by the firing pin? If so, I'd call 'em up and complain. At worst, they do nothing. At best, you might get some free primers for your trouble.

[wildwilly501]

You said first drop of the hammer are they firing second time?If they are firing second time its almost always primers aren't seated deep enough.Same brass you have been loading or different brass?

[ReloaderFred]

Check and make sure you're seating the primers deep enough. All tools wear during usage, and your priming set up may need adjusting. I try to seat all my primers at least .005" below flush.

If the rounds go off on the second strike, it's a primer seating issue.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[ryan28]

This is the same brass I have been using for some time now, and was good till now. I seat the primers the same way as I always have, no way they are not seated deep enough. Like I said, everything was fine till now. But I will check my priming tool again. Has to be something simple.

[fatelk]

Have you checked the mainspring strain screw, to make sure it hasn't loosened up and backed out? That could cause misfires.

[ryan28]

Have you checked the mainspring strain screw, to make sure it hasn't loosened up and backed out? That could cause misfires.

Yes, checked that.

[BK7saum]

one thing that's possible is that the mainspring is weak. To check, place a primer cup on the stain screw to give extra tension. You may need to replace the mainspring.

[BK7saum]

That would be a fired primer cup that the firing pin indent has been flattened back out with a punch.

[Lloyd Smale]

my thought too.
Have you checked the mainspring strain screw, to make sure it hasn't loosened up and backed out? That could cause misfires.

[Newboy]

Just a long shot, but I had that happen once. It was after I had taken some cases from a friend. They had been loaded with wax bullets, and the residual paraffin was killing the primers.


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[mdi]

I've only had problems with one primer in over 36 years stuffing them in brass; Winchester SP. I got a new Ruger LC9s and I had about two or three FTF per magazine. I used the very same batch in two other guns successfully, no FTF. I disassembled the gun, completely for a good cleaning and made sure firing pin/striker and striker channel and bolt were clean and very lightly lubed (just a film).I used Federal and CCI primers in the gun, seated exactly the same (Yep all were seated to the bottom of the pocket) all rounds fired. "Second strike" worked sometimes but not consistently. I then read about "sensitizing" primers so I started "pre-loading" the Winchester primer and I get 100% firing. (pre-loading is seating primers all the way to the bottom of the pocket them adding a bit more force to add a little pressure between the anvil and compound). Now whenever I use Winchester SP primers I make sure to add a bit more pressure, not enough to completely flatten/distort, and I get 100% performance...

This instance is only one out of a few bricks of Winchester primers, just a combination of gun and primer and only happened once. No problems ever prior to this with Winchester primers, any size in any gun...

[oldhenry]

Ryan,
Winchester primers are so good and so many people have used them without issues that it's difficult for most to realize that they are not perfect. It seems to me that you have done all that you can do to prevent this type problem.
I had a problem with Win. primers when I first joined the forum & everyone tried to help & all had 100% confidence in Win. primers (many testimonials).
1. I called CS @ Winchester & gave them the lot number.
2. Without any questions they sent a prepaid label for return of the unused primers by O.D. (I drove 25 miles to the next town to an O.D. depot)
3. They did not replace the primers (they gave several reason why that was not possible), but they paid for the unused primers. The price they paid was less than I paid for them (bought during the Obama years).

I had a similar problem as yours earlier this week with WLP primers (2 out of 200). A revolver that fired on the 2nd. strike and to be completely honest the main spring is 1 lb. lighter than OEM. All loaded on a Dillon 550. I'm no speed freak & load very carefully. I visually check the powder level of each round & feel each primer bottom out. If I don't feel that primer bottom, I stop to see why. In my case the 1 lb. lighter main spring may be the problem, but I have my doubts since the primer looks like I got a solid hit.

If you don't have that problems with the CCIs, you can rule out the revolver as the cause.

Even though Winchester primers are good, I'll get Federals or CCI if available.

Henry

[oldhenry]

mdi,
Good information.

[Conditor22]

I had problems with Winchester Magnum primers not working in multiple guns. I had to cock and re-fire several times to get many to go off.

Tooke them back to Sportsmans Warehouse usually, they don't accept returns on primers but made an exception this time.

[ryan28]

I have a new batch of ammo loaded with CCI primers. I will shoot them tonight, and see how it goes.

[ryan28]

Got the same rate of misfires using CCI primers too. Has to be the mainspring then. Will get me a new one now.

[dikman]

I've been experiencing occasional no-fires lately, Winchester Small Pistol, loaded on both a Loadmaster and Dillon 650, fired in Ruger Vacqueros and Uberti 1866 (.38sp). Has to be the primers, very annoying. Almost used up, next lot will be Federal.

[BK7saum]

Ryan28, try the primer cup over the strain screw to add tension until you get a new one in. Itll allow you to continue using the revolver.

[dale2242]

I`ve said this many times.
I have never, in 50+ years of reloading, had a FTF that was the primers fault.
It has always been the fault of the gun.
Maybe I`m just lucky....dale

[ryan28]

Ryan28, try the primer cup over the strain screw to add tension until you get a new one in. Itll allow you to continue using the revolver.

I will try that. Good way to make sure.

[dikman]

Dale, guess you are a lucky so and so.[smilie=l: The primers I had trouble with were indented nicely, tried again in different guns but simply would not fire.:-(

[Mitch]

If you have another gun that uses the suspect primers i would try that.realy hard to tell without seeing the fired primers and the gun

[elmacgyver0]

I guess if I were having a failure to fire with my reloads and could not see a reason for it I would try some factory loads.
If the problem went away I would toward my reloading and then the primers.

[ryan28]

I measured the trigger pull with a luggage scale. Not the right tool for the job I know, but useful in this case. The trigger was at 9.5 lbs double action, compared to about 15 lbs on my other two K frames. I am certain that it's the mainspring now. I will shoot the rest of this batch in my other guns to be sure.

[lefty o]

you can always encounter a bad primer. once in a blue moon they do escape the factory, but 99.9% of the time it is typically either they werent seated bottomed in the pocket, or a mechanical problem with the gun.

[Burnt Fingers]

I`ve said this many times.
I have never, in 50+ years of reloading, had a FTF that was the primers fault.
It has always been the fault of the gun.
Maybe I`m just lucky....dale

I've got a solid 45 years of reloading under my belt I've used CCI, Winchester, Remington, Federal, and S&B primers. Many many thousands of them. I've had ONE primer in that time that didn't go bang. When breaking that round down I found there was no anvil in the primer. I glance at them before I flip them. I'm guessing that the anvil fell out somewhere in the process.