Bore Butter

[gesthuntn]

Who uses it and how do you dry your barrel before using?

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[rfd]

why do you feel the need for "bore butter"?

what kind of gun and its ignition system, what is the make up of yer loads, what's the prime use for yer gun?

[gesthuntn]

I shoot a Percussion rifle and shoot balls and bullets lubed with Bore butter. Really like the idea of using all natural products in my muzzleloaders.

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[TheOutlawKid]

Hate it. Canr stand it. Especially when mixed with pyrodex. It works for some people, but not for me.

[gesthuntn]

What do you all use to prevent rust in your rifles? How do you remove from barrel before shooting?

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[RU shooter]

I'm also in the hate it camp . There's quite a few better allnatural lubes I'd use before bore butter , don't under stand what your asking about drying your barrel before using it ?

[gesthuntn]

After cleaning I want to make sure all the water is out of my barrel before coating in Bore Butter. That is what I'm asking. Do you use very hot water so that it evaporates fast? I have heard that this causes flash rusting.

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[Camper64]

It sounds like your coating your barrel with bore butter for storage, if that is the case, I would just run a dry patch down it then fire off a couple of caps to make sure the flash hole is open be for loading.

[triggerhappy243]

it is critical to have the bore 100% dry before applying bore butter. a super hot barrel will dryout any moisture in the bore, and yes it does flash rust using hot water. I am finding more people despise pyrodex seem to live in very humid climates. The humidity accelerates the corrosion that the residue seems to create.

[RU shooter]

After cleaning with water run a patch or two down the bore with WD 40 followed with a dry patch and then you can use the bore butter if you want but a simple oil like 3:1 oil is all that's really needed. Just the water out of the bore is most important thing before youtreat it with an oil or preservative

[smokinfeathers]

I run alcohol patches followed by dry patch then lube with oil, get ready shoot run dry patch pop couple caps then load n good to go.

[trails4u]

I inherited bore butter with my first percussion rifle..... Used it, and seemed ok...but for any kind of storage I can't recommend it. Many years have passed...and it's ballistol for me.

[45workhorse]

Don't use it for storage. But do use it for maxi ball lube. Spit for patched round ball.

[rfd]

this all comes down to personal beliefs about how traditional side lock muzzleloaders, whether flint or cap ignition systems, should be both cleaned and loaded.

if yer using "substitute black powder", which IS a smokeless powder, i have no comments, yer on yer own with that junk.

when using real black powder i long ago realized that ease of cleaning means dealing with fouling immediately after the last shot of the day is taken. the longer one waits, the more the bp residue will harden, be more difficult to remove, will be easier to make a good barrel not so good with its corrosive effects.

some sloppy "moose milk" or wd40 patches down the bore, with the last wet patch and rod left in the tube, and generous spritzing of the lock keep the bp soft until yer back home and do a proper, and super fast, cleaning. the reason for the water soluble oil or wd40 is to prevent rust/corrosion during the interim before proper cleaning.

"proper cleaning" of a trad muzzy means to me using plain tepid tap water. some folks with home water softener systems are concerned over salt issues (not me) and if so, use bottle water. hot or warm water not needed. this takes me 3 to 4 patches down the tube until the last comes out "reasonably" clean. don't expect it to be "perfectly clean", that's a myth and a waste of time trying to achieve. a patch wet with any gun oil goes down and out the tube, a spare jagged rod and patch wet with that oil goes down the tube and stays there. this renders a barrel that will always be the best it can be, for me.

while the barrel is being worked on, the lock is removed, as is the flint of a flintlock, and left in a pail/bowel of, yep, tepid tap water. let it soak good whilst ya work on the tube. when the tube's done, pull out the lock and scrub with a toothbrush, rinse, shake and pat off the excess water, spritz or wipe down the entire lock with an oily rag. pivot points can sometimes get a tiny drop of oil. put the lock back. done.

IF the barrel and lock have been neglected, and proper maintenance was never really accomplished, it's a good bet that tap water ain't gonna do the job it should and toxic chemicals along with a bunch of elbow grease will be needed to get an infected barrel and lock back to proper working condition. but from that point on, if the gun is as well cared for as in above, cleaning is silly easy. no need for "bore butter" or any other trad muzzy commercial nonsense.

what goes hand-in-hand with the above is also how well the projectile is lubed - meaning patching for balls, grease for bullets, and lube for shot wads. good lube helps with fouling control, or the need to not hafta employ fouling control between shots.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello gesthuntn,

I use TC Bore Butter and have for years, about 40.
I have a hooked breech system,
First I remove barrel, clean-out screw, and the nipple.
Second I set breech end in a bucket of as hot as I can stand water with Dreft Baby Soap
& push a soaked patch through, then I pump the soapy water through the barrel for a while.
The barrel will get hot and the soapy water will run down the outside of the barrel.
Third I rinse out the bucket and put in clear hot water, then repeat the process again.
Fourth I will set barrel in the basement sink, place a small funnel in the muzzle and pour more hot water through.
Fifth I will run a dry patch through the barrel then set it against the wall muzzle down to dry.
Sixth after 1/2 hour I will run an alcohol patch through and let it stand again.
Seventh I will run a patch full of Bore Butter through the barrel and wipe it on the outside as well.
Eighth I will reinstall the barrel, nipple, and clean-out screw.
Now when I want to load it again, I run an alcohol patch through the barrel, followed by a few caps.
No hang or misfires, just boom.
Some will disagree, but it's what I do, been working for 40 years.

AntiqueSledMan.

[winelover]

I do the same as Sled Man...............except for the alcohol saturated patch, for near as many years. I just run a couple of dry patches.

Winelover

[Shawlerbrook]

I used it on my inlines for years. I clean the bore with moose milk or hot water and detergent. Then use tight dry patches. I then use a HF heat gun to heat up the barrel from the inside and outside. Then the bore buttered patches. The butter melts into the lands and grooves. That said, I am going to try Ballistol next season. I shoot 777.

[cub45]

I use nothing but PURE NEATSFOOT OIL, never a problem with fouling or cleaning or rusting.

[pietro]

After cleaning I want to make sure all the water is out of my barrel before coating in Bore Butter.

That is what I'm asking.

Do you use very hot water so that it evaporates fast ?



I can only state my experience with Bore Butter. :coffee:

Since I started using Bore Butter 1000+ when it was first introduced around 1985, the only thing I've used hot water on guns for is to flush out percussion nipples after I removed them from the gun.



I've used Bore Butter for both flint & cap lock guns since then (35 years ago) successfully, with never an instance of rust and/or poor accuracy.




I've found that the best way for me to use BB is to initially clean the bore of all fouling & water preparatory to seasoning the bore - then heat the barrel before applying a liberal coating of BB, letting everything cool & dry.

I then clear of most of that initial coating of BB from the bore with a clean patch, then wipe down the exterior metal with the clearing patch - and leave it until the next time I load/shoot the gun.

Going forward, after every firing session/day, I wet & swab the bore clean with a patch liberally soaked in Moose Milk (T/C #10 Bore Cleaner), followed by multiple passes with clean patches to dry the bore.

I then use a single patch lightly coated with BB rubbed into it to re-coat the bore, leaving the BB in there until the next loading/firing.

The last things I routinely do is to clean & re-install the nipple before wiping down all exterior metal with a light coating of BB.



These are some of the guns I've had & treated as above since 1985

https://i.imgur.com/fAO6dKUm.jpg https://i.imgur.com/RQBIoIdm.jpg

.

[waksupi]

If you shoot in cold weather, you will hate it on about the third shot when your patch and ball are stuck tight halfway down the bore when loading.

[OverMax]

Bore Butter is useless for my application. I tote a Hawken ball shooter in cold climate. Sometimes -20 below Plus. Here in my neck of the woods B/P deer season starts the weekend after Thanksgiving. So its plenty cold out. Enough cold to immediately harden any wax based Patch Lube to a frozen carp like texture in tube or tub.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Sorry Guys,

I forgot to mention that I am shooting Sabots.
I haven't used Bore Butter as a patch lube (or even shot round balls) in years.

AntiqueSledMan.

[megasupermagnum]

Bore butter is great from about 60 to 70 degrees. Above that it turns to water. Below that it turns rock solid.

[triggerhappy243]

Bore butter is great from about 60 to 70 degrees. Above that it turns to water. Below that it turns rock solid.

I have to agree with you on this point. I avoid shooting all together when the temps go above 90 deg. and below 44.

[Muddydogs]

I have went the other way on cleaning my muzzle loaders, whether its BH209 or Pyrodex I don't care I clean just like any center fire rifle with M-Pro 7 bore cleaner and oil. I still use Bore Butter to lube round ball patches which keeps the bore good and clean while shooting. Never saw the need to mess around with water in my barrels when M-Pro 7 cleans the bore up just fine.

[barnabus]

I wouldn't use bore butter to grease a pig.that stuff has ruined more barrels than I could count.

[triggerhappy243]

I wouldn't use bore butter to grease a pig.that stuff has ruined more barrels than I could count.

where do you call home?

[Muddydogs]

I wouldn't use bore butter to grease a pig.that stuff has ruined more barrels than I could count.

From my research on lubes the last few days it seems that Bore Butter is Beeswax and olive oil with a little yellow color. Most home brew lubes contain Beeswax, oil, Crisco, and or some type of lard so for a bullet lube it's right in there with the rest of them. I don't think its the best for protecting a barrel from rust and I highly doubt the claims that it seasons a barrel like one would season a cast iron skillet but as a bullet lube it seems to perform well.

[rfd]

there is no such thing as "seasoning" a steel barrel, that's pure hype.

[Road_Clam]

I dont use bore butter on muzzleload long guns, but Bore Buttter mixed with Crisco is a great lube for my 1858 .44 cal cap and ball revolver shooting real BP .lots of fun, huge mess !

[Edward]

From my research on lubes the last few days it seems that Bore Butter is Beeswax and olive oil with a little yellow color. Most home brew lubes contain Beeswax, oil, Crisco, and or some type of lard so for a bullet lube it's right in there with the rest of them. I don't think its the best for protecting a barrel from rust and I highly doubt the claims that it seasons a barrel like one would season a cast iron skillet but as a bullet lube it seems to perform well.

You"d be wrong/Ed

[Muddydogs]

You"d be wrong/Ed

About what? What Bore Butter is made of? Rust protection? Barrel seasoning? Good lube? Lots of point to just say your wrong. If you have nothing else to say but your wrong maybe its best to just type nothing since what you typed was kind of a waste of time.

[Buzzard II]

I don't like "Bore Butter" either. I think it's useless and just a marketing ploy. Chap stick would probably work better.

[Geezer in NH]

From http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?317718-Light-rust-in-bore/page4 post 74 I think.

Old post quote from an old BP magazine. Note BB, WL and all the rest of the colors were from the same folks. It' a great read. I have not used any since I was told by a barrel maker they had to chisel the **** out of the barrels the warranted do to it.

I tried the Wonder 1000 theory, and I'd love to see someone
actually do that. I've watched 5 different guys try it, and the record
is 8
shots, same as I got. Of course, another way to look at it is: on any
given day that I am hunting deer with it and I get off 10 shots and
don't have a deer to show for it, I probably ought to go home and give
some serious consideration to what I am doing wrong.

Tony,

You have no idea how much humor has come out of Ox-Yoke's claims on the
1000 Shot Plus lube. To the point where some of us now call them
Ox-Joke. With any of my three BP rifles "an historic feat" is getting the
4th ball down the bore without resorting to a bigger hammer.
I'll run you through the full story since the snow has started to fall.
Lets go back to the early 1980's.

A shooter/buckskinner by the name of Young, living in California, went
to the range one day and forgot his patch lube. In utter desperation he
whips out a tube of Chap-Stick and smears it on a few patches. Lo &
Behold it worked better than the lube he had been using. Several of his
buddies tried his idea and reported it worked well. So Young then
tracked down the source of Chap- Stick which is a common lip balm
formulation that has been floating around since the late 19th century.
Chap-Stick is petrolatum (petroleum jelly) with 5% cetyl alcohol and
water. The cetyl alcohol acting as the emulsifyer. With the cetyl
alcohol the water forms minute beads within the petrolatum. Without the
cetyl alcohol you can't get the water to mix in any way with the
petrolatum. Huge quantities of cetyl alcohol are used in the production
of PVC emulsion resins used in kitchen flooring. (My old job was as an
R&D
Tech. on these resins.) The petrolatum is the moisture barrier and
carrier for a topical agent used to soothe chapped lips. The water
emulsified into the petrolatum reduces the drag of the "stick" when you
apply it to your lips and acts as the moisturizing agent. Young then
finds a place to buy Chap-Stick in bulk and packages it as Young Country
Arms 103 Lube. That his lube and Chap->Stick are identical in every
respect, right down to the color, suggested he simply bought from the
makers of Chap-Stick in bulk quantities. Now Ted Bottomly had started
Ox-Yoke and made pre-cut patches and packs of patch cloth. He wanted a
patch lube to round out his line. He bought the first Ox-Yoke lube from
Young. When I first saw them I was at the late C.P. Wood's house in West
Virginia. Woody was looking at a 4 ounce container
of Young Country 103 and a 3 ounce container of Ox-Yoke's patch lube.
Both were identical in every respect, including color. You paid the same
price for 3 ounces of Ox-Yoke's lube as you paid for 4 ounces of Young's
lube. The logical conclusion would be that Ox-Yoke was buying from Young
and the missing ounce was Ox-Yoke's profit on the deal.

Both were advertising their respective lubes in the magazines. Young
advertised that you could fire a hundred rounds without wiping the bore
with his lube. Three months later, Ox-Yoke would advertise that when you
used their lube you could fire 200 rounds without wiping the bore. The 3
month lag time in the mags being the lag time in getting adds scheduled.
This went on, each one upping the ante, so to speak.
Those of us connected with the Buckskin Report discussed this in letters
and thought it a great joke.

The others in the field at that time were Hodgdon with their "Spit-Patch"
which was nothing more than beeswax emulsified in water with a soap.
Then there was T/C Maxi-Lube which was nothing more than the same
petroleum grease they used to grease the bearings in their machines.
Blue and Grey products was selling an automotive wheel bearing grease
that had been pigmented, not dyed, blue. I receieved several letters from
Doc Carlson. He was seeing BP muzzleloaders come into his shop with
balls or slugs stuck in the bore just ahead of the powder charge. You
could not pull these projectiles by any normal method.
He would have to remove the breech plugs, pull the charge and beat them
out of the bore, toward the muzzle with a heavy rod and a hammer. He
described the presence of a black tar-like film in the bore where the
projectiles had been frozen in place. The common thread in this being
that the shooter had used one of the "petroleum-based" lubes. I had to
explain to Doc that the petroleum greases were nothing more than
petroleum lubricating oils that had been "bodied" by the addition of
metallic soaps such as calcium or cadmium stearate. With a petroleum
lubricating oil, or grease, anytime you heat them to a high temperature
in the presence of sulfur you get asphalt. The way asphalts were
produced was to take crude oil and sulfur in an autoclave. Heat the
mixture to 600 degrees for about 8 hours
and you had road tar. Which is about what was happening in the gun.
Since the repackaged Chap-Stick was a petroleum wax it did not form
asphalt with sulfur and high temperatures. I then wrote an article for
the Backwoodsman magazine and compared the behavior of the two Chap-Stick
lubes to the behavior of sperm whale oil when it had been used in black
powder guns.

Well, Old Ted Bottomly jumped right onto that one. three months later
he starts advertising that his lube is "all-natural, non-petroleum" and
authentic, using what our ancesters had used. At that point I figured
his parents were to Christian to call him ******* so they settled for
Bottomly. By about 1984, Bottomly and Young had a falling out over
pricing. The one ounce shy thing with Ox-Yoke pushed most of the
customers to Young's lube. Same thing, same price but more of it with
Young Country 103. And by this time we were up to 800 rounds between
swabbings. Technology marches on. Bottomy came out with his first Wonder
Lube. Years of research went into this lube, or so he claimed. Now at
this time Ox-Yoke was located in West Suffield, CT. A short time later I
was searching the drugstore shelves looking for petrolatum-based skin
care products or salves that I coulde repackage and become a millionaire
. I spotted this tube of something
called "Mineral Ice". Menthol in petrolatum. Made by a Dermatone
Laboratories located in Suffield, CT. Out comes the map. just by a
mere coincidence both companies were located just across the river from
each other. This of course raised doubts as to the "years of research"
comments out of Bottomly. The new Wonder Lube went into the lab. Proved
to be mineral oil, paraffin wax, a yellow dye and oil of wintergreen. A
book at work on fats, waxes and oils nailed this one down to a common
chest rub preparation for those with head colds who could not tolerate
camphorated oil. Again it was billed as "all-natural and non-petroleum".
Never mind that paraffin wax comes from paraffinic crude oils and mineral
oil comes from napthenic crude oils, the yellow dye and the oil of
wintergreen should convince anybody that it is all-natural and
non-petroleum. Given the wax and oil, I simply refer to this type of lube
as a remanufactured vaseline. With the yellow dye the rubes will swear
it is beeswax.

One thing about con artists is that they are never content to leave a
con artest for any length of time. In 1990, Bottomly comes out with a
new version called 1000 Shot Plus lube. High-technology now made
possible a lube that eliminated fouling, eliminated the need to clean and
would totally stop bore corrosion. Bottomly searched the world for this
modern technology and found it in Germany after years of searching. This
advance in this lube was made possible by this
secret micronizing agent. It gave the lube a micron particle size that
made all of this advancement possible. At that point his chest thumping
ego trip gave away the formula. This secret micronizing agent is no real
secret and has been around for over 100 years. It is nothing more than a
fossil wax mined in Germany. The same time of wax used to be mined in
Utah as Utah Wax but the mine closed for lack of business.
Paraffin wax is a hard brittle wax that forms huge crystals. When you
look at a block of paraffin wax sold for food canning you see lines on
the surface of the blocks of wax. Those are the lines denoting crystal
size. It had been found that if you added this fossil wax to paraffin
wax it would reduce the size of these crystals, though nowhere near a
micron in size. Paraffin wax was limited in which skin care and salve
formulations it could be used in because of the macro-crystallinty of it.
This made it unsuited to preparations where hardness and brittleness
were objectionable. By using the fossiol wax addition the paraffin wax
could replace more expensive waxes in these products. But when you lay
this type of Techno-Nonsense on a bunch of ignorant rube BP shooters they
will beat a path to your door, wallet in hand.

Now, to get back to an historic feat of 3 shots without swabbing the
bore. The problem with this type of lube is that as long as the surface
temperature of the bore is above the melting point of the wax, about 40
to 45 C, the fouling deposited by the combustion of the powder will slide
off the metal when pressure is applied to it. When the surface
temperature of the bore is below the melting point of the wax it will act
as an adhesive and hold the fouling to the surface. The unburned
charcaol in the powder fouling will adsorb most of the mineral oil
present in the lube. This turns it into an oily sludge that simply
builds up in the breech with repeated loading of the gun. After a few
rounds are fired in a flinter you have the oily sludge being blown out of
the vent which then coats the flint and frizzen. Lubricated flints
strike no sparks.
Now for the real punch line. With the addition of the micronizing agent
they doubled the amount of dye used so the new lube was more orange in
color, compared to the lemon yellow of the previous version, and they
doubled the amount of oil of wintergreen. Convince the rubes that it is
now even more natural. During the past few years there has been much
******** about the quality of Ox-Joke's pre-lubed patches. I have seen
packs in the store where the lube had turned hard and brown. The mineral
oil migrates out of the paraffin wax into the low density polyethlene
used in the bags. This makes the lube hard and brittle. It goes back to
paraffin wax properties. With these an historic feat is getting the
second ball down the barrel without wiping. Ox-Joke supplies T/C with
Bore Butter which is only a slight modification
of Ox-Joke's standard formula.

Remember the dbate about blowing down the barrel on the message boards.
My off line joke was that as long as you use the repackaged Chap-Stick as
a patch lube you would not get chapped lips from blowing down a cold
barrel.

Then their was Uncle Mike's Apple Green patch lube. Another paraffin
wax/mineral oil lube with methylsalicin in it. Nothing more than a
repackaged arthritis salve. I can tell you that is was very effective on
a knee suffereing degenerative joint disease. So if you are going to go
out in those North Woods in winter weather to hunt the elusive whitetail
you ought to take all three lubes along. Prevent chapped lips, take care
of chest colds and arthritic joints from all of the hoofing through the
snow. No reason for you to return home in anything less than the best of
health in spite ot the weather. Might be a good idea to take along one of
the ascorbic acid-based powders since that is vitamin C. Then Goex's
sugar-based powder might make an emergency trail food.

I joke with Dixon that it is bad enough we have to deal with the ATF,
what next with these products, the Food and Drug Administration too???
Well, time to go sit out on the deck for a smoke and listen to the snow
flakes fall.

[rfd]

geez, don't we love to complicate what should be -and is- simple?

[idahoron]

I have only used lube on my over powder wads. I tested both hornady great plains lube and bore butter. I only put enough lube on them to keep the wad from catching fire. The claims that bore butter got hard, yes it does. So did the hornady lube. I actually like that with my over powder wads. It makes them stiff. The wads i use are oversized. The hard lube makes it easier for me when I load them.
Any claims of seasoning or barrel protection are in my opinion, are false.

[Walks]

So what do I use on My Maxi-Balls ?

I'm still gonna use Crisco on My Cap & Ball Revolvers ?

[triggerhappy243]

So what do I use on My Maxi-Balls ?

I'm still gonna use Crisco on My Cap & Ball Revolvers ?

Walks................. i use bore butter on my t/c maxi-balls. have the applicator jig, that t/c put out. it is the same consistancy as crisco. I shot this group a few years ago using of all things......... Pyrodex RS. I swab between every shot. always have. The pyrodex residue does get crunchy, But I can live with that. If it gets bad, i use a bronze bore brush dry to break it down. but as you can see ,, the effort paid off.

[triggerhappy243]

This spring, I will repeat this drill, but switch to real black powder. Give it an unbiased equal chance. BTW, Dear old Jonathan (Frontiermuzzleloading), posted the same article on one of his threads. pitching the sales of his wonderlube he (SUPPOSEDLY)developed. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. He probably Bought a 55 gal. drum of chapstick too. He flat refused to send me an MSDS for allergy research. I want to try this "how many shots " thing too. Who is up for some fun?

[Edward]

About what? What Bore Butter is made of? Rust protection? Barrel seasoning? Good lube? Lots of point to just say your wrong. If you have nothing else to say but your wrong maybe its best to just type nothing since what you typed was kind of a waste of time.

You just listed whats wrong ,before getting panties in a bunch utilize the search engine in the top right of this forum . Try doing the work ,I have for years/Ed

[Muddydogs]

You just listed whats wrong ,before getting panties in a bunch utilize the search engine in the top right of this forum . Try doing the work ,I have for years/Ed

Why not explain instead of just throwing out stupid posts? If I'm all wrong then your saying that Bore Butter isn't a good lube but is good for rust protection and barrel seasoning? Maybe you need to hit that search function just a little since you seem to be going against what most people think of Bore Butter.

Here are a couple links to get you started.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-17099.html

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/making-homemade-bore-butter.794403/

https://www.shootersforum.com/muzzleloaders/8056-ingredients-bore-butter-wonder-lube.html

As you can see from the links while this is a great forum there are a ton of other resources on the net that can be found with just a simple Google search for a topic.

[jjarrell]

50/50 pure mink oil and beeswax. You’ll never use anything else.

I used Bore Butter for many years mainly because I never tried anything else. I don think it’s that great of a lube after using the beeswax/mink oil mix. BB doesn’t lube the ball or patch as well, and I only swab after 25 shots or so with mink oil. Then when I do, it cleans easier.

If that’s all you can get the by all means use it. But on the back end, it provides no rust protection at all for storage. Others may disagree but this has been my experience. 40 years of black powder so far.

[megasupermagnum]

50/50 pure mink oil and beeswax. You’ll never use anything else.

I used Bore Butter for many years mainly because I never tried anything else. I don think it’s that great of a lube after using the beeswax/mink oil mix. BB doesn’t lube the ball or patch as well, and I only swab after 25 shots or so with mink oil. Then when I do, it cleans easier.

If that’s all you can get the by all means use it. But on the back end, it provides no rust protection at all for storage. Others may disagree but this has been my experience. 40 years of black powder so far.

I've been looking to change to TOTW mink oil. At room temperature it seems perfect, and even below freezing it seems to stay soft enough. Does the stuff really thin out above 80 degrees?

[FLINTNFIRE]

Use what you find to work in your firearm and with the temps you shoot in and when can some of you stop running off at the mouth about this and that and go shoot a little more . Some use bore butter , I have and yes I have shot 30 plus shots and had no problems loading , yes they were maxi balls I cast myself , no it is not what I use for patched round balls , yes mink oil is nice on my caulk boots , used neats foot oil to , crisco , beeswax , olive oil , find what you like there are enough lubes you can pick and choose and most of them will fit the need and will be useable in what your need is go shoot and see what works for you and quit beating each other for what each likes , chapstick was a nice touch but I question some of these stories as the bore butter 1000 plus seems to have a different consistency in what I have , maybe carmex is closer , do not care , heck use some old pig or beef fat , almost any lube will actually work more then the time wasted talking about it.

[sharps4590]

IF we're still allowed to own firearms in another 200 years.....I'd bet a million dollars there will still be lube debates going on...and I'd probably win.

[Dimner]

After cleaning I want to make sure all the water is out of my barrel before coating in Bore Butter. That is what I'm asking. Do you use very hot water so that it evaporates fast? I have heard that this causes flash rusting.

Sent from my moto g(6) (XT1925DL) using Tapatalk

when I clean my front stuffers I use a kettle full of just boiled water. Therefore when I am done cleaning, the bore is only wet for a half a minute. The bore gets very hot from the boiling water and retains that heat and therefore evaporates the moisture that is on/in the bore.

Then I apply the bore butter. And I love the stuff and the smell. When I smell it, I'm like Pavlov's dog. I immediately think of muzzleoading.

[mooman76]

IF we're still allowed to own firearms in another 200 years.....I'd bet a million dollars there will still be lube debates going on...and I'd probably win.

No body wins

[longcruise]

when I clean my front stuffers I use a kettle full of just boiled water. Therefore when I am done cleaning, the bore is only wet for a half a minute. The bore gets very hot from the boiling water and retains that heat and therefore evaporates the moisture that is on/in the bore.

Then I apply the bore butter. And I love the stuff and the smell. When I smell it, I'm like Pavlov's dog. I immediately think of muzzleoading.

The next time you clean with that method, once it is dry and cool run a clean dry white patch in and out. You might be surprised at the color!

[hc18flyer]

The next time you clean with that method, once it is dry and cool run a clean dry white patch in and out. You might be surprised at the color!

I have purposely stayed out of this discussion. I have used bb or wonder lube for 30 years. With a new gun I can get some 'flash rust', but after a few cleaning, I never see it again. If I do my part, everything works perfectly. I will say that if target shooting, I will spit patch, so I can fire more shots between cleaning. It was the way I learned, saw no reason to change. Tom

[Dimner]

The next time you clean with that method, once it is dry and cool run a clean dry white patch in and out. You might be surprised at the color!

Actually I do run many patches down there. First both whIle the bore is wet, I'll mop it with patch after patch until the water coming out the flashhole is no longer black. Then after it dries, I run dry patches until they come out without brown streaks. Brown streaks are very very minor, the width of a sliver. After that is when I give it bore butter.

[longcruise]

The red streaks are rust!

If you use tap hot water it won't happen.

[indian joe]

The red streaks are rust!

If you use tap hot water it won't happen.

yep yr right .....bet ya wont convince him tho...................
tepid (blood temperature) water is even better
just caint tell them fellers with the kettle though :bigsmyl2:

[Dimner]

So your saying I can skip the boiling? And no mini brown streaks? Not sure how tepid or hot water will be different than boiling, but I'll give it a try. Wife always looks at me oddly when I have a musket in one hand and her kettle in the other.

[longcruise]

I think the boiling hot water thing started with the TC owner's manual.

[idahoron]

The guys that clean their guns in a bath tub make me shake my head.

[Randy Bohannon]

Mink paste for patches and a clean bore for storage.

[Shawlerbrook]

Never had a problem with BB, but it is a pain to use. This year I am going to try Ballistol.

[mooman76]

While not the best lube it does work. In my small calibers I need to swab after a couple shots or accuracy goes south quick. It also does help keep corrosion down if you don't clear right away after shooting.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Great thread. Certainly interesting to watch y'all chat about it. haha
I've used BB for ball patch lube in my .54, and find it a pain after the 3rd or 4th shot.
So yes, I'm looking for something different. Thanks to you fellas for the ideas!

[Maven]

Bob in St. L, This one is effective and easy to make (and you can substitute canola, olive, or peanut oil for the castor oil): https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/making-stumpys-moose-snot.105258/

One minor caution, which I recently discovered: Patches coated with Stumpy's or with Bore Butter or its clones, deteriorate over time. Just sayin'....

[GOPHER SLAYER]

How many mink do I have to squeeze to get enough oil to make up a batch of lube? I have plenty of bees wax. Come to think of it, What is mink oil?

[Bob in St. Louis]

Bob in St. L, This one is effective and easy to make (and you can substitute canola, olive, or peanut oil for the castor oil): https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/making-stumpys-moose-snot.105258/

One minor caution, which I recently discovered: Patches coated with Stumpy's or with Bore Butter or its clones, deteriorate over time. Just sayin'....
I'll check out that link, thank you! :)

[fastdadio]

How many mink do I have to squeeze to get enough oil to make up a batch of lube? I have plenty of bees wax. Come to think of it, What is mink oil?

It's the oil most commonly used for squeaky minks.

[yeahbub]

I wonder, has anyone tried to synthesize sperm whale oil for patch lube? I read great things about it, but the last commercial availability was as automatic transmission fluid when they first started to become available. I'm going to have to try that neatsfoot oil/beeswax mix.

I use Bore Butter, mostly because it's there and easy and won't contaminate the powder charge when hunting, but I NEVER considered a marathon shooting stretch to see how many I could load. The third ball down the bore was warning enough that it wouldn't be fun. I suppose at some point, the fouling would reach an equilibrium point between the amount left behind and what's ejected and loading would get no more difficult, but I have no interest in torturous frustration. It works okay for the few rounds I need it for - good enough. Good accuracy too, but the strike point is 3" higher at 100 yards than with water-bearing patch lubes. I don't trust it to protect the bore from rust for more than the length of the hunting season. For long term storage, I use LPS-3, which provides a 2-year corrosion protection on bare metal in a stable environment. I've used it for years after seeing its effectiveness when I was a machinist. It goes on as a liquid and leaves behind a soft petroleum wax which is easily removed before shooting, if you care to do so. It's a wax, so it doesn't have that turn-to-asphalt effect with BP. I just load and shoot and haven't noticed any negative affect on accuracy.

When cleaning, I remove the clean-out screw and suck hot tap water with a drop of Dawn up into the barrel with the patched rod like a syringe plunger, thus flushing out the flash channel and cleaning the bore. This is followed by a boiling water flush with a funnel down the bore to get the steel hot, followed by two patches to wipe/dry the bore and blow out any water left behind. While the steel is hot, breech, screw and cone threads are anointed with paraffin, and the clean-out screw and cone are screwed back in while the paraffin is liquid and a few strokes with the rod to blow out any excess paraffin. When solid at room temperature, this provides a thread-filling sealant/anti-seize material to prevent fouling getting into and rusting the threads. Anyone who's had to take out a screw that hasn't been removed in years of shooting will know why this is a good idea. Should removal become necessary, they'll come out without resistance. The outside of the barrel is stroked with the block of paraffin so it melts in and saturates the finish (rust brown) and fills dovetails, under-rib joint and other spaces where water can hide when hunting in bad weather. Once cool, I re-assemble and stroke the bore with a patch wet (not sloppy) with LPS-3 and rust will not be a problem. Boeshield is a similar product containing lanolin which I hear good things about, but I haven't run out of LPS-3 yet.

[winelover]

I know most don't want to hear it, but if you used Pyrodex, you would get more than 3 shots before loading becomes hard. I get more than ten, using Pyrodex "P" in my front stuffers.

Winelover.

[idahoron]

I know most don't want to hear it, but if you used Pyrodex, you would get more than 3 shots before loading becomes hard. I get more than ten, using Pyrodex "P" in my front stuffers.

Winelover.

I clean between shots but I tortured tested my guns. Load and shoot load and shoot.

https://youtu.be/su-1Ql-Nhtk

[Edward]

I wonder, has anyone tried to synthesize sperm whale oil for patch lube? I read great things about it, but the last commercial availability was as automatic transmission fluid when they first started to become available. I'm going to have to try that neatsfoot oil/beeswax mix.

I use Bore Butter, mostly because it's there and easy and won't contaminate the powder charge when hunting, but I NEVER considered a marathon shooting stretch to see how many I could load. The third ball down the bore was warning enough that it wouldn't be fun. I suppose at some point, the fouling would reach an equilibrium point between the amount left behind and what's ejected and loading would get no more difficult, but I have no interest in torturous frustration. It works okay for the few rounds I need it for - good enough. Good accuracy too, but the strike point is 3" higher at 100 yards than with water-bearing patch lubes. I don't trust it to protect the bore from rust for more than the length of the hunting season. For long term storage, I use LPS-3, which provides a 2-year corrosion protection on bare metal in a stable environment. I've used it for years after seeing its effectiveness when I was a machinist. It goes on as a liquid and leaves behind a soft petroleum wax which is easily removed before shooting, if you care to do so. It's a wax, so it doesn't have that turn-to-asphalt effect with BP. I just load and shoot and haven't noticed any negative affect on accuracy.

When cleaning, I remove the clean-out screw and suck hot tap water with a drop of Dawn up into the barrel with the patched rod like a syringe plunger, thus flushing out the flash channel and cleaning the bore. This is followed by a boiling water flush with a funnel down the bore to get the steel hot, followed by two patches to wipe/dry the bore and blow out any water left behind. While the steel is hot, breech, screw and cone threads are anointed with paraffin, and the clean-out screw and cone are screwed back in while the paraffin is liquid and a few strokes with the rod to blow out any excess paraffin. When solid at room temperature, this provides a thread-filling sealant/anti-seize material to prevent fouling getting into and rusting the threads. Anyone who's had to take out a screw that hasn't been removed in years of shooting will know why this is a good idea. Should removal become necessary, they'll come out without resistance. The outside of the barrel is stroked with the block of paraffin so it melts in and saturates the finish (rust brown) and fills dovetails, under-rib joint and other spaces where water can hide when hunting in bad weather. Once cool, I re-assemble and stroke the bore with a patch wet (not sloppy) with LPS-3 and rust will not be a problem. Boeshield is a similar product containing lanolin which I hear good things about, but I haven't run out of LPS-3 yet.

I use bear oil but have used neatsfoot with great results ! Note ,no where did I mention bees wax for patch lube ,that"s for boolits with grooves . At least in my guns/Ed

[Bob in St. Louis]

I clean between shots but I tortured tested my guns. Load and shoot load and shoot.

https://youtu.be/su-1Ql-Nhtk
Great video, thank you!
So.. the wool wad with BB on it, that's not something I've used or thought of. That, in and of itself, should help keep things firing almost infinitely, right?
I mean that's all you really need. Because you're cleaning and lubing as you push it down the barrel. I was blown away at the fact the rod "fell down" like it did, as I've got to shove mine even on the first round. I saw in your comments it's a .45. Is a round ball? What size ball? and what ticking do you use?
Good stuff man, thank you very much!
Bob

[smoked turkey]

Ron, that is a great video, and one that shows what can be done by a man experienced with his muzzleloader, and the load. I have seen enough of your videos, and pictures of the game you and your son have taken to know that this stuff works for you, and works well. Your "secret" I believe is your knowledge of your weapon and load. There are no smoke and mirrors here. Just the facts. Thanks for all you do to advance the art of hunting with a muzzleloader.

[idahoron]

Great video, thank you!
So.. the wool wad with BB on it, that's not something I've used or thought of. That, in and of itself, should help keep things firing almost infinitely, right?
I mean that's all you really need. Because you're cleaning and lubing as you push it down the barrel. I was blown away at the fact the rod "fell down" like it did, as I've got to shove mine even on the first round. I saw in your comments it's a .45. Is a round ball? What size ball? and what ticking do you use?
Good stuff man, thank you very much!
Bob

I was using a RCBS 11mm rifle bullet paper patched and sized in my 45.

[idahoron]

Ron, that is a great video, and one that shows what can be done by a man experienced with his muzzleloader, and the load. I have seen enough of your videos, and pictures of the game you and your son have taken to know that this stuff works for you, and works well. Your "secret" I believe is your knowledge of your weapon and load. There are no smoke and mirrors here. Just the facts. Thanks for all you do to advance the art of hunting with a muzzleloader.

I am glad you liked it.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I was using a RCBS 11mm rifle bullet paper patched and sized in my 45.
Thank you Sir.

[Eddie2002]

I've been using BB for a few years now with my .50 caliber front stuffers with BP and have found that it seems to work best when the patch gets a thin coating of BB and then a shot of spit or water rubbed in the patch also. I have been able to shoot 25 or 30 shots before needing a quick swabbing to remove the crud ring. Even then a wetter patch will remove the crud ring most of the time. Too much BB with not enough spit causes the crud to build up faster and my patches are on the wet side, not damp. The yellow BB in the tube is a pain in cold weather while the green BB works great but turns runny when it gets hot. I don't use it for storage, have had a couple of barrels start rusting after only a week after using BB for storage. Been thinking about making my own lube but haven't got the proportions right yet. Guess I'm a bit lazy and like the fact it comes in a tube. ;)

[T-Bird]

I like bore butter for patch lube. I've used it since it came out, before that I used crisco. This was before all this other stuff was available. I would never use it to prevent rust etc. I clean with soap and water then finish with oil. Works for me.

[quilbilly]

There is a replacement for sperm oil that NASA used at one time because, as I understand it, it could be used in space or at any extremely low minus temperatures. It is ratfish liver oil. I used to know the guy who made it and sold it in tiny quantities. He bought the fish from local PacNW trawlers and set the livers (very large for a rather small ancient sharklike fish) out in the sun where the oil would just spill out. There were guys who hunted in winter in the Arctic back then who loved it. For the record - this trivia isn't even good to impress anyone at cocktail parties.

[DeadWoodDan]

Just wanted to share something that happened to me in my youth. Dad gave me his Stevens 12ga side by side (anniversary present from mom) for x-mas after they divorced. It sat under my .50cal later that summer after a shooting session I cleaned just like the T/C manual said ( or I think ); hot water and then season the bore with BB. I must have applied it on outside also, only thing I can think of is the BB melted (we didn't have AC) and a couple of spots had landed on the Stevens. Next time I went to grab on of the guns and found the top of the Stevens had blueing removed! Bad enough I had to have it re-blued.
Stoped using it after that...but never did hurt the T/C