High shoulder shots

[mattd]

Been considering taking the high shoulder shot on deer with my deer rifles and cast bullets vs the normal behind the shoulder vitals shot.

People seem to say it more reliably drops them in their tracks at the cost of more blood shot meat. But that’s jacketed people saying that. I feel like cast would likely drop em, but preserve more meat. Haven’t yet tested that theory tho.

So, what about a RB in front of 80g of 3F? It wouldn’t have the shock of a high power rifle I guess. But I’d imagine it break thru the onside shoulder and make it to the other side, going thru both lungs on a broadside deer.

Stick w behind the shoulder vitals or try high shoulder?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I know lots of people like the high shoulder shot, but the one I tried this year wasn't to my satisfaction. Used a Ranch Dog 270 cast from ACWW at 1800 fps. Punched a neat hole in the top of the shoulder blade and skidded over the top of the spine, breaking the "fins" on the vertebrae. Took the deer off its feet, but it got up and limped away. Requiring a follow up shot. They might run a bit from a double lunger/heart shot, but I've never seen one get up from it after going down. Sample of one, I know.

[John McCorkle]

Alot depends on your hunting plot too...if it's very thick and or on the edge of property lines...high shoulder makes sense. This all precludes you are hunting at distances that you can repeatedly hit a grapefruit sized target with a elevated heart rate.

I love it. I've used it alot more recently (even naming my 300 blackout rifle "spine breaker" because of its deadeye accuracy to place a round absolutely exactly where I want) break the shoulder, clip the spinal column and take out both lungs in one go...but I hunt in very thick woods with lots of swampy land around ... recovering a deer through that has been atrocious especially at night.

If you have the space to track them...take the double lung shot. Id rather the broadside shot if I had the ability to track them through more open woods. But it's completely impassable so I opt to dropem.



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[megasupermagnum]

It's not worth it. The shoulder shot has 2" maybe 3" of leeway. If you got a deer inside of 50 yard to stand still for a couple of seconds, maybe.

The best shot is a heart shot. Don't aim behind the shoulder. Aim about centered with the leg on a perfectly broadside deer. Don't let the internet scare you from heart/lung shots. Between all of my family, we have had a couple deer make it 100-150 yards with such a shot. I'd estimate 95% go 20-40 yards. I've only shot a single deer with a round ball, and 80 grains of Goex no less. A double lung shot, it ran as hard as it could, but only made it 30 yards.

The heart itself is only about a 3"-4" target (bigger than the shoulders though), but the lungs are a good 10" or better target.

[RU shooter]

Take the heart / lung shot if your worried it's gonna run too far or on to another property aim for the shoulder and break bones

[waksupi]

Heart / lung shot equals maybe 25-30 yards, tops before they are down and dead.

[John McCorkle]

Heart / lung shot equals maybe 25-30 yards, tops before they are down and dead.I wish that were true...my experience has shown differently. They can book it if/when they are already adrenalined up...if their "alert" is in they can put some distance underfoot.

Of course I've also seen them kinda stooper over and go to sleep too...but the average is prob about 30-50 yards with outliers on each side.

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[725]

Heart & lung every time.

[Eddie Southgate]

Got a high double lung shot yesterday , in on the left shoulder and out on the ribcage on the right . Took out the top of both lungs and damaged the heart . Deer ran like hell for about 60 yards , stopped and fell over . Shot with a .358 Winchester BLR shooting 180 gr Speer flat point and 43.0 gr H4198 , V 2911 fps . Shot distance was 49 yds and he never knew I was there , just diddie boppin and enjoying the scenery when I hit him .

PS: In my experience a round ball is one of the best killers around , I much prefer them to conicals in my muzzleloaders .

[Wolfer]

I generally take the shot they give me but prefer the shoulder about a third of the way up.

I shoot a paper patched 360 gr mini with 70 gr of FFFg so penitration is never a problem. Get a relatively clean hole without a lot of bloodshot meat.

[RU shooter]

I wish that were true...my experience has shown differently. They can book it if/when they are already adrenalined up...if their "alert" is in they can put some distance underfoot.

Of course I've also seen them kinda stooper over and go to sleep too...but the average is prob about 30-50 yards with outliers on each side.

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I agree with this my last doe I killed with a 50 cal RB went 30 yd didn't know where the shot came from and just trotted away and fell , Last deershot with my 35 Rem went over 75 on a dead out run and crashed she was spooky at the shot so imo it depends but they don't run with two broke shoulders

[M-Tecs]

I've had excellent results with double lung shots with muzzleloaders, centerfire rifles, handguns and archery. Rarely had any go over 60 yards. Heart shots not so much. Excellent blood trails but heart shots for me tend to go 100 to 400 yards. High lung shots may not give good blood trails until the lungs fill with blood.

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[M-Tecs]

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[smokinfeathers]

I like to shoot center shoulder broadside n break both shoulders n get both lungs at the same time. 90% of the time they are drt the others don’t go far. I shot 42 straight 1 year culling does with double shoulder shots n none moved a ft, always preferred them to head shot.

[Tatume]

I've tried the high shoulder shot a couple of times. Done right, it is effective in dropping deer. The bone fragments also damage a lot of meat, whether cast or jacketed bullets. It is a more difficult shot to make. The heart/lung shot is just as effective, and much more reliable simply due to the size of the target.

[Don McDowell]

The "high shoulder" shots success depends largely on it being in just the right spot to clip the spine, and bit low and you'll have big trouble, a bit high and it may take them off their feet for a moment, but likely they'll be back up with no blood trail, and minimal damage to the lungs.
Tight against the shoulder about 1/3 the way up , will give you a double lung, and possibly clip the heart.

[pietro]

.

IME, the only sure way to kill a deer instantaneously is to give it an earache...……. :bigsmyl2:

.

[mattd]

Was trying for a double lung shot.....

Dead on at 50yds ended up hitting high at 20y. Plus I proly pulled it high a bit. High shoulder shot. Busted thru spine and both shoulder blades. Took the top off one lung. Pass thru. Dropped in its tracks. Barely twitched.

Unloaded one over the chrono, 1685fps.

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[TCLouis]

mattd
What caliber, cartridge, boolit?

[mattd]

50cal round ball

[megasupermagnum]

Was trying for a double lung shot.....

Dead on at 50yds ended up hitting high at 20y. Plus I proly pulled it high a bit. High shoulder shot. Busted thru spine and both shoulder blades. Took the top off one lung. Pass thru. Dropped in its tracks. Barely twitched.

Unloaded one over the chrono, 1685fps.

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I'm sure you are well aware, but had you been trying for the shoulder shot instead, you would have cleanly missed at best. Nice work.

That's really what it comes down to though. Lungs are huge, offering the shooter plenty of forgiveness. Is the 20-40 yard run really a problem worth risking a shot on an apple size target? Sure, once in a blue moon you get a fast one that can make it 100 yards, maybe a bit more. Over the years I'm finding the tracking is pretty easy. Maybe not having to drag them the 40 yards back out of the swamp would be nice, but it's not that hard either. Hitting a moving apple size target at anything beyond bow range is hard.

[John McCorkle]

Hey hey congrats on the deer!!

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[brewer12345]

I like he double lung the best as it is the most forgiving. Things don't always go as planned in the field, so the most certain shot where I end up with a clean kill and a bunch of venison is what I go for.

[mattd]

Since the original question was would a round ball have the same effect on high shoulder shots, i'll answer YES!

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[John McCorkle]

Since the original question was would a round ball have the same effect on high shoulder shots, i'll answer YES!

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254080Wow...that's amazing. I'm guessing the deer didn't go far....

Now question is, did you loose alot to bloodshot meat or did the lower velocity help save some

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[mattd]

I would say the lower velocity saved a lot of meat.

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[John McCorkle]

I would say the lower velocity saved a lot of meat.

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254082Yeah that's not bad at all. What load of powder and what rifle you using? Great shot by the way

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[mattd]

50cal cabelas cap lock. 80g 3F goex. .495 ball out of the lee mold.

[nagantguy]

The high shoulder shot works well- can be tricky in all but the best shooters in he best circumstances; the double lung shot is always the safest archery or gun- these aren’t sage words of wisdom so much as everyone’s general findings-
If a deer absolutely needs to be put down- the neck shot is as effective as the head shot in my humble opinion- used to hunt on the edge of a metro park- any deer that made the 100 or so yards were lost to me- the neck in front of the shoulder is not such a small target- and seems to shock the CNS- plus break the neck, and or the shoulder and or esophagus and large arteries, for the truly bold and skilled the white patch on the high neck is also a bang flop zone- but as stated above the double lung shot is the highest percentage shot. The double lunger usually ends in a 30-40 yard dash- but as stated above there are outliers and if you find yourself in a 100-200 yard track and subsequent drag- it’s just an outlier. And think while
Dragging in a thorny black muck swamp filled with holes and deadfalls- the field research you are contributing to.

[John McCorkle]

The high shoulder shot works well- can be tricky in all but the best shooters in he best circumstances; the double lung shot is always the safest archery or gun- these aren’t sage words of wisdom so much as everyone’s general findings-
If a deer absolutely needs to be put down- the neck shot is as effective as the head shot in my humble opinion- used to hunt on the edge of a metro park- any deer that made the 100 or so yards were lost to me- the neck in front of the shoulder is not such a small target- and seems to shock the CNS- plus break the neck, and or the shoulder and or esophagus and large arteries, for the truly bold and skilled the white patch on the high neck is also a bang flop zone- but as stated above the double lung shot is the highest percentage shot. The double lunger usually ends in a 30-40 yard dash- but as stated above there are outliers and if you find yourself in a 100-200 yard track and subsequent drag- it’s just an outlier. And think while
Dragging in a thorny black muck swamp filled with holes and deadfalls- the field research you are contributing to.Someone else suggested that neck shot to me also. I may give that a try. It's certainly not smaller than the high shoulder zone...just forward of the shoulder where the neck meets the body the spine is quite wide, I am imagining an enlongated baseball in size or so.

It's all circumstantial though...if I am shooting from a rest in my blind, I can be picky and still sure I am dropping that round exactly where I want it. I'm also only shooting 50 yards max...it's not difficult to hit a precise spot in that circumstances...but if the deer is moving briskly or if I'm not able to get that benchrest type shot off I'd go with a more certain shot even if it means more tracking on my part

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[Good Cheer]

The "hunting accuracy" of firearms seriously comes into play when the animal isn't standing broadside to you.
That's when bigger is better.

[nagantguy]

Someone else suggested that neck shot to me also. I may give that a try. It's certainly not smaller than the high shoulder zone...just forward of the shoulder where the neck meets the body the spine is quite wide, I am imagining an enlongated baseball in size or so.

It's all circumstantial though...if I am shooting from a rest in my blind, I can be picky and still sure I am dropping that round exactly where I want it. I'm also only shooting 50 yards max...it's not difficult to hit a precise spot in that circumstances...but if the deer is moving briskly or if I'm not able to get that benchrest type shot off I'd go with a more certain shot even if it means more tracking on my part

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Yes- it’s not a hard shot and always DRT - think of the area about the size of a two liter bottle, inside 75 yards no worries at all- and inside that 2 liter area is spine large bone major arteries front of lungs and front of heart wind pipe ect.

[Shawlerbrook]

After 45+ years of bow hunting, I have been programmed into heart/lung shots no matter what weapon I am behind. Nothing on earth will survive more than a minute or two with it done properly.

[barnabus]

I know lots of people like the high shoulder shot, but the one I tried this year wasn't to my satisfaction. Used a Ranch Dog 270 cast from ACWW at 1800 fps. Punched a neat hole in the top of the shoulder blade and skidded over the top of the spine, breaking the "fins" on the vertebrae. Took the deer off its feet, but it got up and limped away. Requiring a follow up shot. They might run a bit from a double lunger/heart shot, but I've never seen one get up from it after going down. Sample of one, I know.

my experience also.knocked the deer down right there but no blood trail after getting up.Lucky I found it but it required a follow up shot.

[Savvy Jack]

I made a high shoulder hit back in 2017. Hit broadside at about 65 yards. Hit shoulder and turned 90 degrees traveling down the backstrap and stopping in the hind quarter...obliterating everything in it's path. This was a 240gr Hornady lead SWC HP with 25gr of Reloader 7 out of a 44-40 at 1,350fps. This is 44 magnum revolver performance out of a Marlin 1894CB.

For deer photos.....

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/hunting/2017-hunt

The deer never took a step, dropped straight down. Blood puddle evident of the heart still pumping but unconscious after only about 60 seconds or so, dead after just a few minutes.

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[megasupermagnum]

my experience also.knocked the deer down right there but no blood trail after getting up.Lucky I found it but it required a follow up shot.

That's the danger. You missed the fist size shoulder joint. If you miss that, who knows what might happen.

[Loudenboomer]

Hi shoulder shots work well most of the time. The problem for me has been if you slip one in between the lungs and spine. I'm a fan of the double lung shot. They take the standard 5 hops and then it's venison.

[mattd]

There’s been a lot of proof (not evidence:-P) posted on the web recently that there is no void between lungs and spine. Lungs completely fill the cavity. Not that it would matter w a rifle anyway.

In my case I center punched the shoulder blade. At that location it blew thru the fat part of the spine. Centered vertically on it as well. If you pull off the shot properly then I can’t imagine the deer going anywhere.

[John McCorkle]

There’s been a lot of proof (not evidence:-P) posted on the web recently that there is no void between lungs and spine. Lungs completely fill the cavity. Not that it would matter w a rifle anyway.

In my case I center punched the shoulder blade. At that location it blew thru the fat part of the spine. Centered vertically on it as well. If you pull off the shot properly then I can’t imagine the deer going anywhere.They don't, you take out CNS, gearbox (both shoulders) and both lungs with one shot. I took 3 last year like this and all 3 were lights out from the CNS shock and bled out by the next 15-30sec. Theybwere dead before they knew what hit them.

I think the variables start to stack and keeping this shot in the tool box as a good one to go for is appropriate as long as it's not your only tool. I get to use it alot because I hunt close and have a fantastically accurate rifle.

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[Loudenboomer]

Lungs nicked up high take along while to fill up and spine bone that's just ticked is only a temporary knock down. Both have happed to me when placing the shot too high. Just my 2 cents.

[M-Tecs]

A high shoulder shot is a mostly a spine shot. A hit above the spine but still in the scapula may or may not knock them down and if they do go down they may not stay down. It also tends to make a mess of the chops so I avoid it. Also a bit high and it's a nasty flesh wound. A bit low and it's a high lung shot that tends to take awhile before they bleed externally. The top of each lung is above the bottom of the spine. The void does not exist. Most claimed void shots are above the spine.

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[M-Tecs]

Some also tend to believe deer have a shoulder joint that can be hit with a high shoulder shot. The scapula muscles are what attaches the shoulder to the torso. There are no joints to hit with a high shoulder shot.


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Also an excellent diagram here but I can't get the pic to upload properly.

https://bereeloutdoors.com/arrowmat-foam-target-face-whitetail-vitals-17x17-in-amva17/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA9dDwBRC9ARIsABbedBOwj9rvEmdYIunOvQp y9JARmL3kiOAP0RvdJ6phHd2mcrFCusyYrv8aAk_fEALw_wcB

[northmn]

So much depends on the deer's location and state. In my 50 years or so of hunting I have seen enough to say that about the only thing that is DRT is a CNS shot. Larger more destructive hits through the lungs with bigger guns don't do much more. A deer in the woods does not seem to run as far with a lung hit and I have seen them go down. Lung hit in an opening or field and they run farther to get to cover, but there are exceptions. I watched a lung hot deer run at least 75 yards if not farther going toward the woods on a hay field and it did not make it and really kicked up the snow when it dropped. Hit a deer in the neck under the spine and it stopped when it made cover and dropped. I could go on but head shots are unsporting as one can blow a jaw off and not find a deer. Neck shots, if high will cause a wound but it will get away. They run with lung shots and I have seen them go a long ways with heart shots. In MN where they put on fat and develop a very thick winter coat they often don't leave much of a trail. Never have had all broadside shots either. I have angled shots where one shoulder is broken and they don't run as far because it slows them down. Low hits from a elevated stand aiming at the shoulder can give you a broken leg and a lost deer. Happened to me. I haved lost very few deer, but I am careful about my shots.

DEP

[Good Cheer]

#375296; dropped a buck with a too high shoulder shot. Only being sighted in for out to 200 I judged the elevation incorrectly and shot high. Destroyed the spine so all I had to do was walk up and deliver the coup de gras but I surely didn't like him having to wait until I got there. I really do prefer closer and bigger.