Shiloh or C Sharps

[Angus in Wyoming]

Hello all. I am planning on getting an 1874 Sharps. I am looking at Shiloh and C Sharps. The price seems to be the same to me or at least very close. Most of the guys I shoot with have Shiloh Sharps. I can't think of anybody that has a C Sharps except for a couple of their high walls. What do you think? I know both are great. I should mention that I will be getting 45-70, shooting cast boolits, and usually be shooting smokeless powder. I shoot mostly buffalo gong shoots as there are many of them in my area. Thanks for the help.

[runnin lead]

Angus
I don't have a Shilo but do have a C. Sharps & a Pedersoli both 74's
I am very pleased with both . last month with my 45 70 C. Sharps I shot a 4shot
group of under 6" maybe under 5 ''at 500m 547 yds iron sights prone off of cross sticks BP load

scroll down from this thread to thread titled interesting group

Jim

[freedom475]

Just get yourself a Sharps!!! I have found that winners have one thing in common.....They Win!:-P Doesn't seem to matter what they are shooting. So any C-Sharps, Shiloh, or even Pedersoli will do...just as long as you are out there sending big bullets, your smile will be a "Perma-Grin"

[kodiak1]

Angus I got a couple of boyh and there isn't a thing wrong with eiyher of them.
One shoots as good as the other. Take your pick and buy one I guarantee you that you will be very happy with it.

Ken.

[Don McDowell]

The last rifle I bought was a C Sharps, next time it's Shilo's turn.:drinks:
If you're in a hurry to get your rifle then go with CSA, if waiting a while is ok then order the Shiloh (or see if they have anything available).

[Mygila]

Angus,
Either rifle will do. Mine , however is a Pedersoli with 10K plus rounds through it. Go over to BPCR and click pictures. Scroll down to Mygila's Pictures. The group is 4.5" wide & 4" high. at 500 meters. The bullet is a PGT @ 545 gr. over 68 gr.Goex 2F, starline brass & WLR primers. Bullet was seated to touch rifling. I wanted a Shiloh for years but couldn't come with the scratch. Bought the Ped 74 in June 1999 and never looked back. I've since learned that Pedersoli barrels are the equal of any out there. Mygila

[NickSS]

Well I have all 3 (Shilho, C Sharps and Pedersoli) 1874. My latest one is a C Sharps I bought a year ago off the Shelf at their show room. Between the Shiloh and the C Sharps I can only say the the only difference is what Shiloh calls semi fancy wood C Sharps calls extra fancy wood. As for the mechanics and accuracy of them there is nothing to choose between them. The Pedersolis I have have excellent fit and finish for a factory rifle but the color case hardening seams a little thin to me and the wood to metal fit is just a tad looser than the big Timber Rifles. Accuracy wise their is nothing to choose between all three. I personally use my pedersolis for conditions where the rifle my experience a lot of abuse or bad weather. I would not feel as bad dinging one of them up like I would with my other sharps rifles.

[Bullshop]

Another differance I think is that C Sharps owns the copy right on the "old reliable" barrel stamping. Not important but I like seing it there just like origonal C. Sharps rifles.
BIC/BS

[Gellot Wilde]

That's easy to answer....buy a Ballard. [smilie=1:

Sorry, couldn't resist that.....a buddy of mine just took delivery of a new C. Sharps 1874 and it really is a loverly looking, great shooting rifle. The last Shiloh I saw was a little rough looking, particulary the finish on the wood....have they stopped using grain sealer in Montanna?

Personally I think they both make great rifles, but would like to have C. Sharps on the receiver purley because of the historical link. :-D

[montana_charlie]

....have they stopped using grain sealer in Montanna?
You have to buy one of the 'optional' higher-grade finishes to get wood that doesn't look like it came from Montomery Ward. But, that 'standard' finish (to my mind) looks just right on a Quigley model.
CM

[mazo kid]

I don't have any C. Sharps but do have Shilohs and Pedersolis. Both of those makers shoot equally well. I HAD a Shiloh several years ago that had the "Old Reliable" stamping on the barrel, but CSA made them stop using it. I sold that rifle to a buddy who rebarreled it; I now have that barrel and am looking for something to put it on.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Good luck on a ballard!

They don't make em anymore, left Cody Wy and are making Highwalls in DGR Calibers.

The Lunger

[EDK]

Shiloh rifles are a good choice. Not only a good rifle, good customer service and a web site with advice and support...and opinions and arguments!...that you'll enjoy.

C. Sharps makes some good guns, but lack the enthusiastic supporters and web site that Shiloh enjoys. They were for sale...had been listed for a long time in Cowboy Chronicle.

I visited both in 2003. Asked to look at a rifle at Shiloh and was told "walk around the counter and look at everything in the rack...and if you don't see what you want, we'll make it for you!" Looked over the guns...excellent...and went across the street to C. Sharps. They didn't even have the lights on in the showroom and didn't turn them on either! Got in the car, headed down the street and made a U-turn into Shiloh's parking lot. Asked Miss Ellen to get out a pencil and I'd like a ball cap too!

I bought a belt buckle and some other small items in 2006 at Shiloh and headed out. Then went back in and got another buckle and paid cash. I over paid by $1 and Heather Bryan like to broke her neck running out to the car to give me the $1 as I was leaving. Since the rifle purchase, I doubt that I've spent over $200 on a trip to Shiloh, but every time I go in I am greeted warmly and sincerely.

Your experience may vary, but the people at Shiloh are a big reason for their success in my opinion. All other things equal, my business goes to people I like; people who support the sport they supply and participate in.

[SharpsShooter]

I'd buy a C before an S any day. Lotsa different reasons, but the biggest one is their barrels. S does not have the quality barrel that C does.

My 2 centavos


SS

[Gellot Wilde]

Good luck on a ballard!

They don't make em anymore, left Cody Wy and are making Highwalls in DGR Calibers.


http://www.ballardarms.com/


No, they still make 'em...am I missing something on this?

[Bullshop]

These targets were fired from a C. Sharps mod 74 in 50/90.
All accept the upper right were at 100 yards. The upper right was at 220 yards.
BIC/BS

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/bullshop/P1010006-2.jpg

[Gellot Wilde]

That's working well then...always nice to see some good targets...the proof of the pudding so to speak.

Good stuff indeed!

[Angus in Wyoming]

Thank you all for your suggestions. It looks like I need to buy a Shiloh and a C Sharps. I am going to a couple gun shows in the next few weeks, so I will look at those. If I don't find one I guess I will drive to Big Timber and make a decision. Thanks again.

[Angus in Wyoming]

Just kidding, I will only buy one or the other. I'll let you know what I get. Angus

[appleseedgunsmith]

hello,
anyone ever think of rebarreling an 1874 to 20 ga slug? i dont think that 12 ga would fit , even if it did the barrel would be pretty thin. a thick 20 ga sluggun would be awesome for deer hunting here in ohio, and with modern hyper-accurate slug ammunition you could actually use a vernier sight and extend your range a few hundred yards.

[montana_charlie]

and with modern hyper-accurate slug ammunition you could actually use a vernier sight and extend your range a few hundred yards.
I guess I'm way behind the times. Just how accurate are those hyper-accurate shotgun slug rounds?

I'm curious because I would probably consider it a criminal act to take a shot at a game animal that was 'a few hundred yards' away...and that would be with a Sharps rifle.
CM

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I have just two words for c sharps...trash truck!

Since the owner has had the business and building for sale for a couple years now, it would greatly concern me what the economic situation is there. The two businesses are about a 1/4 mile apart. The Shiloh parking lot is full, and there are always lots of visitors every time I have been there. Schofstalls place usually has one or maybe two cars in the lot at most. I expect the Bryants will be around for the time we have left before yo'bammy outlaws all firearms.

Rich

[Don McDowell]

I have just two words for c sharps...trash truck!

Since the owner has had the business and building for sale for a couple years now, it would greatly concern me what the economic situation is there. The two businesses are about a 1/4 mile apart. The Shiloh parking lot is full, and there are always lots of visitors every time I have been there. Schofstalls place usually has one or maybe two cars in the lot at most. I expect the Bryants will be around for the time we have left before yo'bammy outlaws all firearms.

Rich

So does this trash truck business come from some personal experience, or just shooting the breeze?

Schoftstall is retirement age and would like to do so, and its a bit hard to retire if you're still running a business. I'ld suppose if they wanted to Bryants could buy CSA out, and put the outfit back together again like it was 30 some odd years ago. But I doubt if willing buyers are found that want to stick their necks out on small semicustom rifle building outfits.
The whole thing boils down to both outfits turn out excellent rifles,match winning capable right out of the box. Just need to take your pick on which a person wants to buy.
:drinks: There's several folks around that can't decide and therefore have more than one of each.

[EDK]

It's a nice trip from Buffalo WY to Big Timber...200 miles or so. Pretty country, Interstate highway all the way and plenty of places to stop for a meal along the way. One of my favorite routes to go to Quigley via Big Timber. ( I always stop at the Fetterman site; it's like visiting the Alamo.)

Go up and look at the guns...and talk to the people in the shop. I enjoyed the tour at SHILOH...and the fact I DID NOT see anyone who looked unhappy with his job. You don't want a "monday morning" or "friday afternoon" gun from anyone....especially at the prices these guns bring...and they are worth every penny you pay for them!

My only thing close to a complaint was I thought the AA finish on my 50/90 SHILOH needed some more coats of tung oil or whatever they use. Maybe I'm just to used to modern finishes like on my MARLIN Cowboy rifles.

PS if you're stag-grips.com, the grips I got in 2007 for the twin BISLEY VAQUEROS were/are perfect. Hope I got a few yankee dollars for another set (or two) next June when I head for Quigley.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Bullshop]

How many times has Shiloh sold since John has been across the road?
BIC/BS

[appleseedgunsmith]

hyper accurate= any slug load capable of holding 2-3 MOA and some do even better. Yes you CAN take shots past a few hundred yards. you have to be COMPETENT with your rifle and be CONFIDENT of it and the load. not all hunters are sportsman first. some actually do it to put meat on the table- remember your ancestry! if your only shot is a few hundred yards and you are hungry, you either take it and make it count, or you stay hungry! also, in 1856 the sharps slantbreech model was made in a shotgun version. wouldnt it be nice if someone at one of the sharps companies came up with a sluggun with a 1:18-1:20 twist slug barrel and some saboted ammunition using the lyman 457125 or similar. think of the deer hunting possibilities in shotgun-only states!!!!

[powderburnerr]

Bullshop , It was once and john was an offshoot of the sale.........Dean

[montana_charlie]

Because my knowledge of shotgun slugs has become so out of date, I did a quick Google to pick up some current information. It seems the Hastings Paradox barrels are considered to be a 'top performer' in the genre, so I will assume any information relating to them will apply across the board.

The article I read had this to say about accuracy...
"Remember, not too many years ago with antiquated rifled slug loads and smoothbore barrels one would have extreme difficulty printing five-shot groups under 6-8 inches at 50 yards. Such is not the case with the Hastings Paradox barrel and BRI Slug combination. Would you believe consistent five-shot groups at two inches at 50 yards and four inches at 100 yards as an average? Well, it is most assuredly quite possible with this barrel/slug combination."

The article went on to say that states which limit big game hunting to 'shotguns' use different terms to describe which guns are legal. If the state uses 'smoothbore', a rifled slug barrel is out. If the term used is 'shotgun', a rifled barrel (such as the Hastings) would be permitted...as long as it was used on a 'shotgun action'. A shotgun action would be required in order to keep from running into the 'fifty caliber rifle' prohibition.

Being required to fire the slug from the less-solid shotgun lockup, it isn't surprising that 4 inches at a hundred is worth writing an article about. But it still isn't anything like 'rifle capability'. Taking that 4 inches out to 'a few hundred yards' paints a picture of a 12-inch group at 300. Hardly something that a 'sportsman' would inflict on a game animal.

Of course, the 'subsistance hunter' might feel fully justified in using such a crude shooter at that distance. After all, he is hungry. So all he has, to occupy his time, is finding something to eat. He is more than willing to spend the entire day following a badly hit deer...waiting for it to die. The pain and suffering is immaterial when compared to the hunger in his belly.

Sure, there are more efficient ways to get a deer...ways that don't expend so much time and energy on the hunter's part...and don't require a firearm. They would not be 'legal' in today's world, but when subsistance is the goal the law doesn't matter. However, using them would require the same kind of woodsman's skills that a shooter would need...if he wanted to get close enough to make a clean kill at a reasonable range.

Coming back to the Sharps idea...
The smoothbores produced in the 1800's were 'forager's guns', meant to be used to supplement the rations provided for troops in the field. I imagine they did not fire bullets, or slugs.
To mount a modern 'rifled shotgun barrel' on a rifle action would (most probably) get the owner tied up in a legal battle to prove his deer gun was not one of those over-fifty-caliber 'dangerous devices' that some states have laws pertaining to.

Of course, I might have all of this totally wrong...
CM

[appleseedgunsmith]

there is more than one way to skin a cat! a new unbarreled action could be used to skirt some state laws, hence not a rifle per se. also, if the rifle company made it a production item, it could be classed as a shotgun. you could find an original shotgun and rebarrel it. werent there rolling blocks imported a few years ago in 14 ga rechambered to 12? get one of those. in my state a shotgun for deer hunting is described as 10 ga or smaller using one ball or slug per barrel, rifled barrel permitted and no buckshot allowed, gun capacity limited to 3 shells. a simple plug gauge (12 or 20?)will tell them it is not an over 50 cal rifle.but you are right to a point, you may have to do some explaining to one of those idiots they call game wardens. a right that isnt exercised or fought for isnt much of a right. besides, wouldnt that be cool?

if you need more education on modern slugs, try rem buckhammer, lightfield, hornady sst. for guns try tar-hunt, H&R ultraslug, and ithaca deerslayer I,II,III

[Bullshop]

I thought it had changed hands several times since Wolfgang and the currect owners.
Anyway my point was that it dont make it bad.
BIC/BS

[montana_charlie]

there is more than one way to skin a cat! a new unbarreled action could be used to skirt some state laws,

but, you may have to do some explaining to one of those idiots they call game wardens.
I see, now...

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Wolfgang sold the one time, To the Bryan Family Bob Phlyis and Kirk. John S. had parted ways with Wolf before the Bryans bought Shiloh. The truth to that parting, there lies some very interesting things, certain guns that had went out the back door, and others. I personaly almost bought one of those out the back door guns in 40-70bn many many years ago. When I gave Wolfgang the Serial # he was very angry. I am very glad I did not by that little Carbine.

Fact is John was long gone before the Byran Family bought Shiloh Sharps.

My very first vist was in 1990 and I got to spent a couple of Hours with Wolfgang in the shop, in 91 I returned, Wolf took my order and convinced me, after correcting my misconceptions of the largest Sharps 45' made, to order my 45-110. Kirk and Bob were at that time on the floor learning the business from the ground floor up having just bought the business.


Sometimes it is best to not speculate about something you dont have the correct knowledge about. Let people think you might not know what your talking about, than to post and remove all doubt.

In 1994-95, I gave John the chance at some business, and ordered two 1874 actions. First promiss date of delivery was 4 months, after 8 Months I called was told waiting on internal parts 2-3 weeks, after an additional 6 months of waiting, I called and asked for John, he answered the phone, I explained that in 4 hours I would be in Big Timber along with my friend that I had ordered the actions for, and I wanted 1 of 2 things, my actions or My Money, which I had sent up $1800. John tried to convince me to wait another 6-8 weeks. I said its been 14 plus Months I want my money today, He gave his word that the money would be in the Mail, I reminded him that he had received a cashiers Check and I would expect the same. 3 days later I got the check.

He did keep his word on that, I however kept mine and have never bought one of his rifles.



The Lunger

[405]

Yikes,
Never heard all the ins and outs about the two companies other than the basic history, origin and split.

I own both types in model 1874 and have tested both with equal attention to detail. The fit and finish of the Shiloh is a little better than that of the C. But, the C. which is a little plainer may actually be more like an original Sharps because of that. Don't know since I've never seen an original Sharps in factory new condition :mrgreen:

No matter. As far as function and accuracy and shootability- I can't tell the difference. Both are exceptional rifles.

[appleseedgunsmith]

did a little clay prototyping today to further investigate the validity of saboted bpcr shotgun rounds. the sabot face is concaved to catch air easier and fascilitate separation. and this is my .50-90 / 750 gr in a 12 ga . as far as quality goes, i own a c. sharps. the difference between them and shiloh is nearly meaningless at the black powder level. both are used in the winners circle according to bpcr match results posted in black powder cartridge news. ive seen and handled both and cant find discrepancies. shilohs are probably used more because they are more famous and they are available in greater quantities. shiloh is investment cast and the c. sharps is machined from billet. black will cause neither any problems and ruger has shown that castings can be strong! the c. sharps will handle loads that are on the scary side according to published smokeless loads in customer letters.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Two things:

1. The garbage truck. You guys haven't heard about the garbage truck story? A certain company was about one step in front of bankruptcy court, when a country trash truck rearended that gentleman's wife's caddy, and the settlement was enough to keep the company in business.

2. As far as an accurate slug gun, take the easy way. Buy a Lyman Sabot-Shocker slug mould. It looks just like a wasp-waisted flatnose air rifle pellet on steroids. It mikes .670"+/-
and has a hollow base. They were designed to fit inside a 1 1/8oz trap wad and be shot out of a rifled barrel, like my Savage 210. Ounce and an eighth is about 530gr, and it is possible to reach over 1800fps from mine. With a 6X scope it puts 3 under 2" at 100 yards. Just good enough to have killed about a dozen whitetailed deer down on the Snake River here in SW Idaho.

E'gad, I thought everyone had heard the trash truck saga.

Rich

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Rich,

I think thats why MR C. Sharps still drives Caddys?

LOL

The Lunger

That's a true story btw for those that Hold John S. in such High reguards.

As for C. Sharps 74's in the winner's circle, I shoot at the National level on a very regular basis, Very very seldom (as in never) has In the 12-13 years I have shot National and World Matches, has a C. Sharps won a major event.

Shiloh 74's yes. National Championships, and set a few Records along the way.

Quote from a fella at the Q last year" whatcha shooting there?"

My reply" Shiloh LR Express in 45-110 with Paper Patched bullets"

Quote" oh really? them 45-110's dont shoot very well not good for target work and Paper patching is not very accurate"

My Reply, Well I aint great shakes at shooting sitting, and my scores prove that, but I recon the target will tell the truth of the matter here in a month or Two down at Raton."

I walked away to put my rifle in the cart.

The fella asked My pardner Jimbo if that guy (me) knew what I was getting into going to Raton.

Jimbo replied:" I spect he does, thats Kenny Wasserburger that you just told that 45-110 and Paper Patched bullets wont shoot worth a Damm"

Jimbo came up to me laughing, asked me if I had heard that?

I replied " Jimbo Stupidity Knows No bounds, and there aint no law against it."

The Lunger

[Don McDowell]

Not sure how a car wreck has anything to do with the quality of rifle, but so be it.

No doubt Shilohs rule the roost, there have been a Pedersoli or two gain some honorable mention as I recall. Have also seen some CSA's mentioned in some of the equipment lists.
I suspect it has more to do with shooters ability than which side of the street the rifle came from
Any truth to the rumor that Badger barrels gained their excellent reputation from all the Shilohs that got rebarreled with em?
Course if we follow the "everybody that wins stuff," we also have to admit the truth to the current wisdom that folks that shoot and win matches only shoot Swiss.........

[4060MAY]

Brian Chilson set a national record of 38/40 missing one chicken and one turkey wit a CSA Hi-wall in 45-90 in Sept 2008, Eastern Regional Championship Ridgway Pa, which is a Registered match. IIRC

beat his old record of 36/40.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

might want to take of a quick look at the top of this thread it reads C.Sharps vrs Shiloh, since Shiloh only makes a Sharps action, that would pretty much confine the comparing of the 74's since C. Sharps does not make a 63 right?

I was not talking about Highwalls either in my post.

As for rebarreled jobs Badger earned its rep on many guns, Does quite well also and is a rep well earned.

However at the 5@200 and Creedmoor Nationals a Stock Shiloh Barrel kicked alot of Obyermeyer, Krieger, Badger Barrels, Butts. And has done so on a pretty regular basis.


All BS aside, In the end be it a C.Sharps, A Shiloh, (why the hell can't folks spell that right?)
Or Lone Star, Pedersoli, Or any make, It dont much mater,

My beef with C.Sharps is long and well Known That guy that runs-Owns it Is and has been on a Pretty Damm Regular basis LESS THEN HONEST TO DEAL WITH.

Folks Screwed at the Q for jacked up Prices on Parts unknown sights and the list goes on and On, the reason the company did not go under due to wife getting Rear ended by a county Garbage Truck and the County sued for Big BUCKS.

What does: The shooter that works up the load thats shooting in his rifle, Can dope the conditions, Read em, Deal with em, and then Break good shots,

That is who wins the Matches: Thats The Real Truth behind the NUT BEHIND THE BUTT.

Last and not least powder: that Itty Bitty BP Group at the 5@200 was shot with Goex Fg Express and a Paper Patched 45-110.

The Lunger

[Mike Venturino]

The lady in question didn't get rear ended in her Caddy. She was backed over her own personal self. And it was after the marriage was over so its doubtful that any settlement she got went into that company.

And Kenny's right, any good quality rifle will win as long as the shooter and spotter team can do the job too. And I'll also put a Shiloh barrel up against any.

C. Sharps and Shiloh split in September 1985 to be exact. I was there that day.

Mike Venturino

[Mike Brooks]

C.Sharps or Shiloh? With no hesitation I can say I'd like to have at least one of each![smilie=1:

[appleseedgunsmith]

Projects get put on the back burner but never forgotten. Been busy with a .444 black powder roller. This is a prototype 12 ga cardboard sabot and its alumnium model with .50-90 bullet. Not perfect but good enough until I get around to custom ordering paper tubes. In talks with ballard about a slug gun in 20 ga using same design. Never say CAN'T!

[wgr]

c-sharpe still uses badger barrels

[MT Chambers]

I prefer the C. Sharps, one of the reasons is/was the Badger barrels however....Badger sold out and is only doing military work and not supplying the BPCR world, I don't know where that leaves C. Sharps.

[Chill Wills]

c-sharpe still uses badger barrels

If any Badger barrels are being used by C Sharps they are from old stock from before Badger was sold. Not even BAC gets any from the new owners.

Shiloh Barrels are second to none really. Shiloh stands behind their rifles like no other sharps and the stock lines of the rifle are first rate.

[PanaDP]

I have about 150 shots through a .45 2.4" 1874 from C. Sharps. I am very happy with the rifle. It's a beautiful piece of workmanship and shoots better and better as I am able to load what it likes. I was not at all happy with their customer service. Long story short I picked up my rifle 2 months after it shipped because nobody at C. Sharps could be bother to call me to tell me it had shipped. They also didn't include any contact information for me so that the FFL holder could contact me when they received the package. I was simply expected to call C. Sharps and/or the FFL holder regularly to ask if it shipped/had arrived yet. Pathetic.

If I buy another rifle like this, it will either be used or from shiloh.

[appleseedgunsmith]

Need a new barrel company....honey badger barrels! Btw didn't MAST sell out as well?

[Don McDowell]

I see someone posted the other day on bpcr.net that Badger had sold again and so now Ernie will be back making bpcr barrels. Can't remember the name of the outfit that owns it but, it starts with a W and is based out of Conneticut.

[Don McDowell]

I have about 150 shots through a .45 2.4" 1874 from C. Sharps. I am very happy with the rifle. It's a beautiful piece of workmanship and shoots better and better as I am able to load what it likes. I was not at all happy with their customer service. Long story short I picked up my rifle 2 months after it shipped because nobody at C. Sharps could be bother to call me to tell me it had shipped. They also didn't include any contact information for me so that the FFL holder could contact me when they received the package. I was simply expected to call C. Sharps and/or the FFL holder regularly to ask if it shipped/had arrived yet. Pathetic.

If I buy another rifle like this, it will either be used or from shiloh.

Seems a touch weird that your FFl would have a rifle come to him and let it sit there for a couple of months without getting ahold of somebody. Good thing the ATF didn't come inspect his records during that time. " I don't know" doesn't really qualify as an answer those boys like to hear.

[Boz330]

I've heard other folks that had complaints about C-Sharps but my interaction on 2 rifles and spares and sights has been good. I'm not as big an aficionado of the 74 as I am of the highwall hence my dealings with C-Sharps. Their wait times are also more in weeks than years and sometimes I have to strike while the iron is hot and the money is there. I have absolutely nothing against Shiloh and their rifles are pure artwork and I can't say as I've ever heard a single complaint against their customer service. For me I would probably go through Goodman to save the year or so wait on one if I decided that I had to have one. But that is just me.

Bob

[flint45]

I have both a C.Sharps and a shiloh both are superb firearms. If i had to pick it would be the C.Sharps to things much better barrel and finnish on the wood. My shilohs barrel is just not up to the same quality as my C.Sharps Shiloh bbl.has two loose spots in it one 4in. from breech and one about 2in. from muzzle it shoots good but is very pickie. My C.Sharps on the other hand is more acc. and likes differnt boolits and loads way more fun to play with.

[41wyom]

I have a CSA (C. Sharps Arms) Model 74 and really enjoy it. It sat next to Shiloh at a recent match for over an hour so I compared them both and quite frankly the differences if any, were hard to detect. When it was shipped to me I knew the day it arrived at my FFL's gun shop and I had the gun later that day. From a business and customer service perspective, they were just fine. This is based on the initial purchase AND when I returned it to them to be re-barreled in a new chambering. I find no fault in my CSA experiences.

[Arnie]

I believe when the Bryants took over Shiloh they eventually started stress relieving the barrels so there barrel quality went way up after that .

[PanaDP]

Seems a touch weird that your FFl would have a rifle come to him and let it sit there for a couple of months without getting ahold of somebody. Good thing the ATF didn't come inspect his records during that time. " I don't know" doesn't really qualify as an answer those boys like to hear.

It is odd and I'm lucky they didn't send it back. I wasn't expecting it to be finished for some time after it actually shipped so I didn't even think to give anybody a call to ask after the gun.

[Don McDowell]

They don't usually ship unless they have the recieving dealers license on hand.
When I go my rifle they called and sent a letter to let me know it was shipping and when it got to the dealer they had the envelope inside the box with all the owner info and my name on the envelope....

[PanaDP]

They don't usually ship unless they have the recieving dealers license on hand.
When I go my rifle they called and sent a letter to let me know it was shipping and when it got to the dealer they had the envelope inside the box with all the owner info and my name on the envelope....

I set them all up when I ordered the rifle with payment in full and the dealer's address, phone, license, etc. In hindsight, I should have left a reason for them to call me.

[mustanggt]

I have three C Sharps and love them all. I never had a problem with them at all and will deal with them again. John has always treated me right and his people have as well. Their rifles are top quality and show it. Great craftsmanship. Shiloh makes an outstanding product as well. I don't think you could go wrong with either on the target.

[bigted]

ill give a short testamonial for the shiloh people.

i recently purchased a used hartford chambered in 45-120...my second 120...this rifle was a no frills rifle and around 20+ years old. the barrel and general shape and fit made me think it wasnt fired a bunch before i got my grubby hands on it. hence the small problem went undetected for all these years. there was a small amount of metal remaining in the trough area from not grinding enough out in the begining. so when i went to chamber shells in the 3 1/4 inch length it would scrape the trough but the 45-70 loaded shells would slide rite in with no problem. i was so tickled to get this shiloh that i was going to grind away with my dremel and "fix" the problem when upon suggestion i called shiloh to see if per chance they would consider doing the job for me so id have a factory finish when done. when i talked to Kirk he insisted that i send it back to him and for the inconvieniance he cut the 34 inch barrel length back to my desired 30 inch length and all for just the shipping fee to and from the shiloh factory in montana. they reshaped the trough for the long shell casings and shortened the barrel...re-cased the reciever...reblued the barrel...cut the new dovetail...and re-drilled and tapped the 2 scope mount holes in the end of the barrel for 50 dollors...[the 50 dollars was for the holes and plugs for them].

now i would be hesitant to believe that there is another company around that would never bat an eyelash at repairing a 20+ year old rifle and especially for another owner of this very nice shiloh rifle. also the work is impecable for sure. the case coloring is perfect and the bluing job is oveall done for the whole barrel as there was a couple places where gun-safe marks were left on it...and now they are gone and un-findable[[hows that for a word?]].

so after this very fine customer consideration...even tho i didnt buy the rifle from them... i am even now figuring out what my next shiloh will look like.

[TXGunNut]

Awesome experience, bigted. Hardly surprising from what I've heard. They probably get a kick out of having an old gun in the shop.

[paul s]

C. just buys parts to make a rifle, with Shiloh raw matierials go in one end and finished rifles come out the other end. Get the Shiloh, I love mine.

[RMulhern]

Back when I wasn't 'clued in'...I bought my first M74 from C. Sharps; a 50 2 1/2. Could not get the dude to shoot worth a damn! After much soul searching I discovered that C. Sharps had chambered the rifle from the tight end...WRONG END! Sent it back and one year later....finally got it back! Needless to say....I WAS DONE with C. Sharps! It will be a better day for future wannabe Sharps owners when C. Sharps FOLDS FOR GOOD!!

[Lead pot]

Did they make you pay for the new barrel?

[Don McDowell]

Did they chamber the barrel from the wrong end or did Badger send out the barrel with the shank on the "wrong" end? Unless the barrel was choked I'm not sure it would make alot of difference.

[RMulhern]

Did they make you pay for the new barrel?

Kurt

No!

Don

The barrel WAS CHOKED!

[Mike Brooks]

C.Sharps or Shiloh? With no hesitation I can say I'd like to have at least one of each![smilie=1:
Well, that was me back in '08. I now have 3 farmindales, a '74 and 2 '63's plus a pedersoli '63. All of them are excellent shooters.:bigsmyl2:

[Roundball]

Recently bought a C.Sharps 45-110 that had come from an estate. Had a bunch of questions sent via email. Got a reply quickly-within hours. Also have made small purchases that were shipped very quickly. Overall, the experience with CSA has been very positive. The rifle is beautiful. This single shot business is addictive in the extreme.

[MikeS]

It seems that Shiloh has always had very nice owners. I took a tour of their place when it was in Farmingdale. At the time I was a teenager, yet when I asked questions, they were answered with the same respect they would give any serious customer. I don't remember much of that tour other than how nice they were, and how upset I was that I didn't have the money to buy one! Now my paycheck comes from Social Security, and I STILL don't have enough money to buy one! :)

[Gunlaker]

Recently bought a C.Sharps 45-110 that had come from an estate. Had a bunch of questions sent via email. Got a reply quickly-within hours. Also have made small purchases that were shipped very quickly. Overall, the experience with CSA has been very positive. The rifle is beautiful. This single shot business is addictive in the extreme.

Their customer service has gotten better in the last year or two. I think they must have had a hard time holding onto talent at one time. I've bought a few rifles from them. They are all pretty good with the exception of one that had some issues.

Chris.

[MT Chambers]

These days you see more and more C. Sharps in the winners circle, I think it is because of the Badger barrels that they use, I have a few of their rifles but am not a shill for either outfit.

[Gunlaker]

One thing I will say is that it's generally been easier to get my Shiloh's shooting well than it has for my C. Sharps 1885s.

For 1874's I'll choose Shiloh. But I do really like the 1885 CSA's :-)

Chris.

[appleseedgunsmith]

latest update.......finally getting the 20 ga sluggun off the ground. barrel is on order. scope is a leatherwood malcolm short with homemade pope rib and unertl type mounts. next comes picking the action......highwall or sharps? hmmmmmm.....

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I retired in 1993 and cashed in an insurance policy which gave me about $4500 mad money. I called Shiloh to order a rifle. The nice lady who answered the phone told me the waiting time would be at least sixteen months and if I wanted to lock in the current price I had to pay full price now. I don't have that kind of patience. I told her no thanks. That afternoon I went to Turners, which is a chain of sporting goods stores / gunshops and bought a Perdersoli 1874 off the rack. I have never had one problem with it and it shoots very well when I do my part. There is one thing I didn't like on a C. Sharps that I took a close look at. They had stamped the name of the company on the side of the action and there was metal sticking up around each letter. Very cheezy. I have also read that they use castings which Shiloh does't. Nothing wrong with that. Ruger has always used castings. Since buying the Pedersoli I have aquired a safe full of single shot rifles and if I could only keep one , it would't be the 1874. I much prefer either one of the 1885s that i own.

[Bent Ramrod]

Actually, it's Shiloh that uses the castings. They have their own foundry now (I think it's called Boulder River Castings), right next to the Shiloh factory. Barrels are now made in-house as well.

C. Sharps doesn't offer tours of the operation beyond the showroom, so I don't know where they source their parts or what they are.

[appleseedgunsmith]

is it true that c.sharps uses smith ent. to cut their receivers or is it done inhouse now?

[cal50]

I retired in 1993 and cashed in an insurance policy which gave me about $4500 mad money. I called Shiloh to order a rifle. The nice lady who answered the phone told me the waiting time would be at least sixteen months and if I wanted to lock in the current price I had to pay full price now. I don't have that kind of patience. I told her no thanks. That afternoon I went to Turners, which is a chain of sporting goods stores / gunshops and bought a Perdersoli 1874 off the rack. I have never had one problem with it and it shoots very well when I do my part. There is one thing I didn't like on a C. Sharps that I took a close look at. They had stamped the name of the company on the side of the action and there was metal sticking up around each letter. Very cheezy. I have also read that they use castings which Shiloh does't. Nothing wrong with that. Ruger has always used castings. Since buying the Pedersoli I have aquired a safe full of single shot rifles and if I could only keep one , it would't be the 1874. I much prefer either one of the 1885s that i own.

16 months is a long wait and good choice finding a nice Pedersoli to use.

Pedersoli builds excellent guns and will shoot better than most of the people behind one as does both Sharps rifle companies.
BPCR is more demanding in the re-loading aspect with several factors in play to obtain consistent or any accuracy.

When someone says a "rifle will not shoot" its a possibility it could be the rifle or their loading and components.

I might thin out some of my collectable guns and pick up another Sharps rifle and would consider any of the major brands.

[country gent]

Last November I ordered a "special rifle" something Ive alsways had an intrest in and decided the kids didnt need all that Inheritence money anyways. LOL. Actually my middle daughter told me Dad you deserve it. I have always been interested in the early long range shooters Buffalo hunters ect ect.
I have a Pendersoli long range sharps with 34" barrel now I shoot with paper Patched bullets mostly. Last November I contacted C Sharps arms and ordered a custom build on a Remington Hepburn reproduction. Fancy walnut, matching stock and forend. Pewter forend tip ( I never really carred for ebony tips). 34" Tapered octogon barrel to finish rifle wieght around 12 lbs. Long range soule rear sight and wind adj front sight. Double set triggers are standard. Last I knew they were waiting on Green Mountain for the barrel 45 cal 1-18 twist tapered octogon contour with tulip at the reciever. Steel but plate. Should be a beautifull rifle on the bench shhoting it. No safe queens in this house.
I have seen Shilohs and they are lovely rifles with pride and craftmansip but they didnt offer what I was looking for either.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Country Gent, I applaud your decision. I well remember the first time I saw a Hepburn and I thought, someday I will have to own one. Alas, it never happened. It seemed whenever one came up for sale I was woefully short of funds. That was at a time[early '60s] when you could buy a nice one for a little over a hundred bucks. I will look forward to seeing pictures when you receive your treasure.

[mp40man]

I am very happy with a 74 that I got from CSA last month. The rifle is top shelf as was the customer service. I would not hesitate to order another rifle from them.
Greg

[Don McDowell]

I am very happy with a 74 that I got from CSA last month. The rifle is top shelf as was the customer service. I would not hesitate to order another rifle from them.
Greg

No pictures , it didn't happen [smilie=s:

[5.7 MAN]

67233

C. Sharps arms Billy Dixon 50-90, picked it up 2 hours ago!

[Sharp Creek]

5.7 MAN,
That's a great looking rifle. I was going to get the same but decided on a heavier barrel this time around. I have a 1 1/2 heavy in a .45-110 that looks just like yours, but mine has a Hartford collar. I just got in my new .50-90 with a #3 barrel. I'll submit a pic when I get the chance. I have both Shiloh and C. Sharps and enjoy each make. I have had great support from both companies and would recommend highly to anyone. Some features I like better on C. Sharps and some on Shiloh's. Again congrats. What load will you be shooting in it?
Dennis

[appleseedgunsmith]

I have a nice design for a 745 - 750 gr bullet for that .50-90 if youre interested in a free cad drawing

[Mike Brooks]

You folks and your big bores.....I just can't take the beating. More power to you!

[5.7 MAN]

I neglected to ask c. Sharps what tbe twist is in the barrel, I suspect it is fast for heavy bullets. Thanks for the offer on the mould design, I am not quite ready to buy moulds yet. Do the barrel sights shoot where they are supposed to?

[Sharp Creek]

The twist is 1:26". I'm shooting 650 gr PP. Barrel sights on mine shot low at 100 yds. Had to file the front down.

[appleseedgunsmith]

mine shot close to point of aim. but I replaced with lee shaver front globe & parts unknown soule rear. lee shaver even made me a knurled takedown screw for the soule since one is not factory available.

[CanoeRoller]

[QUOTE=cal50;2158182]


When someone says a "rifle will not shoot" its a possibility it could be the rifle or their loading and components.



My Dad ran a little sporting goods store, there was one very predictable behavior from folks who bought their first firearms and had an interest shooting accurately: they would trade in their new rifles every few months for a period of two or three years, with the excuse that they could not make the rifle shoot. Eventually, they would all get their hands on a "good shooter." The simple truth was, they had finally learned how to shoot, and they could have saved themselves a lot of cash by sticking to the first rifle they bought.

I never ceased to amaze me that it was always the gun's fault.

[country gent]

Mike, Im in the process of rebuilding a old Remington Rolling block from 45-70 to 38-55 for that reason to reduse recoil. All new wood is going on it. A green Mountain tapered octogon barrel with tulip at the reciever 34" long. 1-12 twist for 330 grn + bullets. Should be a 11 lb rifle when finished making the recoil from the 38-55 very easy





=

[appleseedgunsmith]

got one of the last navy arms rolling block receivers. barreled it with a HEAVY 1.250 bbl cut with a custom reamer for.444 marlin black powder only. leatherwood malcolm scope & dz mounts. 435 gr bullet 60gr goex 3f. I get the impression from some of the purist primadonnas on here & other sites that I committed a sacrilege in turning the 444 into a working black powder round, but it works great and has near moa accuracy. wait till they see the 20 ga rifled single shot sluggun im working on now

[mp40man]

Here is a pic for you non-believers,lol
67604

[appleseedgunsmith]

wood by treebone. finished with old english & formbys tung oil

[appleseedgunsmith]

67612.444 aka .42 x 2 2/10 and yes the barrel is stamped as such!

[Bullshop]

What twist?

[Don McDowell]

I get the impression from some of the purist primadonnas on here & other sites that I committed a sacrilege in turning the 444 into a working black powder round,

Really? Guess I missed that dust up.
Anyway Dave Cook had Shiloh build him a rifle that is chambered for a similar cartridge only he necks down 45-90 cases. About the only place you'ld run into trouble with that round would be at an NRA match, unless you can tie it to something that was really similar produced in blackpowder loadings.

[appleseedgunsmith]

its a 1:18 twist. I know dave cook. he lives 45 minutes from me. shot at the tusco match with him. gun weighs 15 1/2 - 16 lbs. he suggested I call it a .42 wesson short or a .40-70 maynard overbored about .006

[5.7 MAN]

So here is the results of my first range trip, 26 total rounds down range. I got a close 100yd zero by using the ladder portion of the barrel sight. I shot my final 5 rnds at 200 & 300 yds. I shot two rounds at 300 & missed the first shot and hit with the second which is the lone circled shot.

67870

[appleseedgunsmith]

pistol primers. spg lube. lube cookies. veggie wads. compress up to 3/8.looks to be 3.5- 4 inch @ 200......good start!

[Lead pot]

Some of the original .44's and the .40's even actually were a .42.
Don't count the .444 short loaded with blk powder. I use it in my 444 Marlin and it is a very good round.

[appleseedgunsmith]

had steve meacham make me a bushing neck die and re/decapper. he said he was impressed at how thick the rem .444 case really is.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

444M=.44-63 Maynard...

[appleseedgunsmith]

.42-60 marlin! why not a new cartridge with a new name? had this discussion already with MLV on another site. if they could get the phariss .40-70 govt approved, it could be done with this as well, just need to petition the nra. any supporters?

[Don McDowell]

Nope ,if you want to get your cartridge approved for the NRA matches, then you're the one that needs to do the research and gather the documentation that would prove to the NRA competitions committee that the cartridge should be allowed. Others have done the work for their cartridges and rifles, you can do the same if you are truly interested.
The 40-70 is documented in the sharps records, so that was an easy one.

[appleseedgunsmith]

I said supporters. not researchers. and how does that phariss .40-70 govt based on the 45-70 fit into the game if historical documentation is required, and the true cartridge dimensions are not historically accurate. doesnt "spirit of the game" apply somewhere?

[Don McDowell]

You need research to document the provenance of the cartridge you are trying to get approved. You want the 444 Marlin approved you'll need to show how it's tied to something originally loaded in the US with blackpowder.
Might check with C Sharps for some help on that, they've been offering the 444 in 75's and higwalls for quite awhile now.

[semtav]

.42-60 marlin! why not a new cartridge with a new name? had this discussion already with MLV on another site. if they could get the phariss .40-70 govt approved, it could be done with this as well, just need to petition the nra. any supporters?


Sure, why not, but get the whole 42 series approved. I've got a 42-85 Wesson modified to use 45-90 cases.

[appleseedgunsmith]

sounds like a plan.

[waksupi]

.42-60 marlin! why not a new cartridge with a new name? had this discussion already with MLV on another site. if they could get the phariss .40-70 govt approved, it could be done with this as well, just need to petition the nra. any supporters?

I assure you, if Dan Pharris undertakes to do something he definitely has his ducks in a row, and is using an appropriate chambering.

[appleseedgunsmith]

im sure it didnt hurt that he worked for shiloh at the time....politics, politics, politics

[appleseedgunsmith]

latest update....... slug gun barrel has arrived.....octagon! thanks John Taylor.

[winchester 71]

Angus in Wyoming................I hava had up to 6 Montana made Sharps rifles at one time.....I still have a Shilo 40-65 and won't sell it.........The ladies at Shilo seem to now hate people and are quite
confrontational if you ask any questions and don't seem to be of any cash potential......the whole
attitude has changed and they do not seem to care or have any intrest in their customer..I thought this was me and over the last gun show season talked to others here in montana about what I felt
and they confirmed my observations........I don't know if quality is still there but it's kind of hard to throw down several thousand dollars to somone who really doesn't like you..........the guys at
C Sharps manufacture great rifles and are sociable and help all they can with what your interested
in and don't get confrontational........If I go for another sharps rifle it will be for sure a C.Sharps
as if something happens with it they will be there 100 percent to help you ,I discovered the policy at Shilo from what the ladies told me is you bought it and its yours, any issues you PAY to fix it..........

[Gunlaker]

Your experiences with Shiloh are pretty much the opposite of what I've experienced with them. They've always treated me well. The folks at C. sharps have definitely improved the customer experience since Pete started handling it though. I like both companies, Shiloh for their Sharps rifles and CSA for their 1885's.

Chris.

[hickstick_10]

They've been good to me as well, I dont know how winchester 71 got the cold shoulder. Although anyones patience will wear thin if someones doing some extended window shopping on the phone.


I discovered the policy at Shilo from what the ladies told me is you bought it and its yours, any issues you PAY to fix it..........


If you buy a used gun, perhaps this is true. With a new one and a filled out warranty card they stand by their product and replacement parts are provided no charge.

Have you purchased a new Bryan production Shiloh and did you fill out your warranty card?

[Don McDowell]

Angus in Wyoming................I hava had up to 6 Montana made Sharps rifles at one time.....I still have a Shilo 40-65 and won't sell it.........The ladies at Shilo seem to now hate people and are quite
confrontational if you ask any questions and don't seem to be of any cash potential......the whole
attitude has changed and they do not seem to care or have any intrest in their customer..I thought this was me and over the last gun show season talked to others here in montana about what I felt
and they confirmed my observations........I don't know if quality is still there but it's kind of hard to throw down several thousand dollars to somone who really doesn't like you..........the guys at
C Sharps manufacture great rifles and are sociable and help all they can with what your interested
in and don't get confrontational........If I go for another sharps rifle it will be for sure a C.Sharps
as if something happens with it they will be there 100 percent to help you ,I discovered the policy at Shilo from what the ladies told me is you bought it and its yours, any issues you PAY to fix it..........

Interesting what happens when a 6 year old thread gets brought back up....
Angus in Wyoming changed his handle bought a Shiloh, and last I heard had packed up the outfit and moved to Norway..
Funny about that thing with the girls at Shiloh, had a firing pin break during the nationals at Raton, called them between relays, the package was waiting for me when I got home. No questions asked..
Just had some modifications made to my roughrider, they called and told me what the cost was and the rifle was ready to ship, and was there anything else I needed... Then they called and said the rifle had shipped and was making sure the other rifle I had rebarreled was alright... Yup them are some really snarly folks... NOT.
Had a transfer bar break on my CSA twice, cost me 40 bucks both times until I sent the broken ones in. Then I wanted the rifle rebarreled, the price came back at almost 900$... Ubecha that's sure a good way to keep your customers happy...

[bigted]

i do have to chime in with my experience with the GIRLS at Shiloh as well. my rifle WAS and IS a used Hartford rifle and it had been thru several owners before i rescued it from the mass's. upon finding the problem [myself] i then went to their forum site where i was hoping to find an answer as to how to proceed with this company and was treated with as stupid a reception as anybody could hope to not have with ANY group of people. kinda a good thing i was snowed in here in Alaska as i dearly wanted to look some of these "fellers" up and teach some manners to rather dullard type folks. i still have a bit of problem going there to ask about anything or post findings on ANY subject. HOWEVER >>>

upon calling Shiloh on the regular telephone ... i was in contact with those GIRLS at once and not a snarly word was spoken to me. this from a company whom did not know me from Adam. they put me in touch with the ...[ one at least]... owner of their operation and his attitude was so drippy and friendly that i had to try to remember if i didnt know him from somewhere. in my dealings since then with the GIRLS ... i have had nothing but help and courteous treatment. never had a grumble or snarl with any of them so far. sure hope that it hasn't changed for whatever reason.

[montana_charlie]

i still have a bit of problem going there to ask about anything or post findings on ANY subject.
I clearly remember following that 'Shiloh boo boo' thread of yours. While it's rare for me to pay him a compliment, it was Don McDowell who tried to get those dingos to stop tearing at your pantlegs.

CM

[bigted]

Charlie ... man this will make his day. i get grumbly even thinkin about that fiasco. it only takes a few to make a place seem uninhabitable huh?

[Socal147]

Just got my C Sharps 1885 Highwall Classic 45/70. Ordered back in December 16th, In my hands on February 7th. Not bad at all.
Fit, finish, and all around looks are tops. Shot about 50 round thru it today to get a feel. Had some rounds that were a bit too long to feed. Work on that in the morning. Very happy with my purchase.

At the Apple Valley Gun Club
Sunny
68 Degrees F
No Wind

[Socal147]

A little more gun porn. Wont be able to get back out until Tuesday.

I so want to kill a deer with this rifle. Round 28" barrel. Nice to carry and with my light loads, a pleasure to shoot. I am sure it will drop any 12 pointer without a hitch. The rail is for future glass. My eyes are not the greatest.

[bigted]

very nice!!! that be a great example of what rifles should look like. i am fond of the 74 Sharps and own 2 of them however i like the Hiwalls ...[i have 3 of them]... and always have from a kid and this one has the look of a great field pard for about a lifetime. looks to be 45-70 so i bet she shoot about the same as my cheaper Japchester Hunter model. if so ... you are in for a full and enjoyable time with your new rifle.

congratulations !!!

[Socal147]

Thank you,
Yep, I edited my first post to indicate 45/70. Can't believe I left that out. Reloaded some more rounds today and shortened up some others a bit. The bullet was just hitting the rifling causing the round to want to back out. Now I have three hundred to send. Can't wait ........

[appleseedgunsmith]

latest info....... my action is here. looks like its gonna be an 1885 20 ga

[appleseedgunsmith]

98795game warden is gonna love this!!! (notice the pope rib attached to a leatherwood scope)

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, appleseedgunsmith. This thread has gone on far too long without pics.
Methinks your project deserves its own thread, would like to follow this project and developments that brought you to this point.

[appleseedgunsmith]

I have more time than money. this could be awhile. stay tuned, I'll post if and when there are more pics

[bigted]

I second the NOTHER posting containing this project. this will be interesting to say the least and the 20 gauge chamber is interesting as well. I would like to follow your progress as well.

[appleseedgunsmith]

I have since found that the 20 ga high wall receiver was modified to accept a shotshell, so I had to find someone capable of performing the task. the rear of the receiver (the ears and trough behind the breech block mortise) must be bored out, not just enlarged. the shell is actually inserted straight from the rear and can't be dropped down in. also, forend collar must be lowered for the larger barrel. work to be done next month. Then comes the 20 ga reamer design. been talking to some professional slug shooters about custom chamber dimensions as well as my own thoughts on design, since they aren't giving up a lot of their secrets.

[bigted]

guess I will show my ignorance here ... couple questions if you don't mind;

why the 20 gauge chamber?

what will a "slug gun" be used for?

as a "slug gun" is this to be a smooth bore?

as a "slug gun" I imagine you are talking about a 20 gauge shotgun slug and hence the first two questions. in my sheltered life ... I have never been around a "20 gauge slug gun" so know nothing about them nor what they would be used for ... or ... the advantage over a cartridge gun.

not being pesky ... just would like an education on this new to me style rifle/shotgun. sounds interesting so would like more info please.

[appleseedgunsmith]

couldn't hunt deer in Ohio with a regular rifle, ( that may change this year with new laws, which makes the project moot) so I said " why not?" I have two other bp rifles, a c sharps 1874 .50-90 and a custom pedersoli/ navy arms rolling block in .444 marlin, known as .42x 2 2/10. the slug gun is rifled. it's actually a pac-nor .600 nitro barrel that mikes .620 groove that will become a 20 ga slugger that I had octagoned by john taylor

[4060MAY]

seedy
I have an action/frame with a 20ga barrel on it, factory
I will bring it to TUSCO at the end of March

[bigted]

rite on ... thanks for the explanation ... just learned another tid bit today. thanks again.

[appleseedgunsmith]

big ted, welcome. 4060may will be there as work allows. keep me posted when you're gonna be there and I'll let you know which matches I can attend.......ok I checked and it appears I have that weekend off. Will try to be there

[4060MAY]

I'll stick it in the van..just remind me it's there

[appleseedgunsmith]

sounds like a plan

[doc1876]

Winchester 71, and Angus,
I also have a preowned Shiloh. I contacted the "girls" ate Shiloh, and was discussing my purchase, and they were extremely courteous, and helpful, "Sir what you have is one of the first 100 that we made when the two companies separated, and it is a commemorative for that occasion." I responded, "first one hundred, I just wanted one to shoot" and their response was "we don't care what you do with it, but if you need anything at all, just let us know". I have since been in contact with them for a few items and a factory letter. and have been very happy with the phone service and mailings I have recieved from them.

[Angus in Wyoming]

Funny how this thread keeps evolving and going. I started it over 6 years ago. Don was right I did move over to Scandinavia for a two year job in Sweden. I am back and am shooting. I ended up buying a Shiloh (more than 5 years ago) and am glad I did. I can't compare it to a CSA as I never have owned one, but this gun is great. I did buy it used. It is an early Bryant gun.

Thanks for all the advice... I should have let you know that I made my decision years ago. I was shocked to see this thread still going. Thanks again. Angus

[appleseedgunsmith]

latest info. action went out for machining, then got stolen in transit. gee, Thanks ups! project would be a bust had it not been for John Taylor. big thanks and god bless! New action here and machined for 20 ga, probably the first in 100 yrs.

[APDDSN864]

Glad to see the project is still alive. Thank you for sharing this with us.

Ed

[appleseedgunsmith]

Stolen gun.....action only... was c. sharps arms 1885 single trigger, pistol grip, in white. ser # A85-182 disappeared on Easter weekend while in ups custody in Chicago area. paperwork filed with batfe

[waksupi]

Stolen gun.....action only... was c. sharps arms 1885 single trigger, pistol grip, in white. ser # A85-182 disappeared on Easter weekend while in ups custody in Chicago area. paperwork filed with batfe


I'll put the word out, but need contact info to go along with the notice.

[appleseedgunsmith]

steve sexton 419-982-9029 appleseedgunsmith@gmail.com or contact John Taylor machine

[appleseedgunsmith]

Custom reamer now on order...... if it works, I'll pass along the dimensions.

[concho]

You might die of old age waiting for a Shiloh . Mine took 21 months back in 1989 , today it takes longer , Try Gunbroker for a used one , Just come from Gunbroker There are several c-sharps ,and Shiloh in single shot rifles listed .

[appleseedgunsmith]

does anyone have access to a pair of lyman 457193/405gr and 457125/525gr molds for a side x side comparison pic of the two cast bullets? I'm wanting to know how close the shank lengths match, base to crimp, or......a good drawing of each showing groove locations.I know the heavier has a longer shank by about 040, but if the base was shaved back, would the grooves match the lighter one exactly?

[appleseedgunsmith]

got a response & pic from lyman. already ordered a 457193 for use in 20 ga slug. a modified 457125 is on the wishlist for later use.