.43 Spanish roller questions.

[koger]

Ok, so I know where 2 43.Spanish rollers are, one a rifle, one a carbine. Both appear to have been rearsenaled. Both have been blued, great wood, pristine bores. He is asking $350 each for them. How hard is it to make brass, how expensive the dies might be. Is it more trouble than it is worth.

[RustyReel]

Can't answer your questions, but I'd buy both, that way you have two reasons to buy/make brass. :smile:

[TNsailorman]

.43 Spanish brass is still available at a few location, Track of the Wolf, etc., however it is not cheap.

[mazo kid]

Those prices sound very reasonable!

[15meter]

Lee makes die for a reasonable price, brass isn't cheap but it is available.

There is a technique for making brass from 300 Win Mag, using e-clips in the extractor groove for a rim but it's a bit involved. There's a thread under the brass forming forum that details it.

And Lyman makes mold 439186 for the Spanish.

Good luck.

For what it's worth, I paid $500 about 5 years for my rifle, if I had a chance to snatch a carbine for $350, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[NyFirefighter357]

Package deal $600! Track of the Wolf: 40 cases with tax & shipping is going to be $156, Lyman mold is $80, sizing die $32, set of Lee dies $40 another $40 for incidentals.

[marlinman93]

Graf's has .43 Spanish brass for $67 per 20 pcs. Still not cheap, but available.

[koger]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have decided I don't need another cartridge to reload for, but I think they would be worth the price for donor actions, what say you guys?

[1Hawkeye]

Track of the wolf has brass but 100 pcs will run you the same cost as one of the rolling blocks. I've been down this road myself and wound up selling the rifle because I would have had more in the loading supplies than the 175 I paid for the rifle. But that's just me.

[marlinman93]

For a donor action I've found them much cheaper than the $350 price, so I wouldn't pay that. But if they're more expensive in your area then I'd say go for it. I have never paid more than $225 for a complete gun, and less for an action to use as a donor. But as a donor I only care what the action looks like, so bad barrels or bad wood don't bother me.

[Eddie Southgate]

Buy the Rifle for a donor and pass the Carbine off to 15meter if he really wants it . Seems like the neighborly thing to do .

[jonp]

When I bought mine I looked into forming the brass from something else and quickly dropped the idea as too much trouble. The action is very nice and would make for a great donor. What do you have in mind?

[koger]

JonP I am a big fan of the 45/70, but have a boat load of them. I guess I would like to have something in the .40's like a .40/65 or 38/55, but I have two of the later. The .40/65are supposed to be very accurate, have not checked on brass and dies $ for that caliber.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Brass for the 40-65 is 45-70 necked down to 4o caliber. I paid $52 for Lyman cowboy actin three die set in 40-65 from Midway.

[marlinman93]

.40-65 can indeed be an accurate combination, and not expensive to get brass or dies. I have several .40-65 Win. single shots, and they're not abusive on my shoulder either, if reasonable loads are used.

[Boz330]

Just got off of Simpson's sale sight and while they had quite a few rollers mostly Swedish the cheapest going price seemed to be in the $395 range for something that would shoot.
I got an 8MM a number of years back when they were plentiful for $225 and rebarreled it to 40-65 and have taken a number of deer with it. I had the barrel as a take off so not much involved other than the wood. It is a fun gun to shoot with reasonable recoil and could be used for mid range competition with a decent set of sights.

[bigted]

43 spanish is a cake walk to get runnin. Lee dies, RCBS mold, bertrim or track for ready made headstamped brass.

They are a treat to load and shoot. Plus the history they possess. The military version of Remingtons 44-77 of the Buffalo wars ... exactly the same brass and just .003 or .004 difference in bore diameter.

Were I faced with your dilemma ... Knowing what I know now ... I would have already shelled out the coin for the both of em. The 43 is a grand shooter ... AND ... when blowing black powder clouds at the range ... upon questions, you can proudly exhibit your historic and fun rifle and vintage cartridge.

Buy em ... come on, ya know ya want em ... just do it! You can scarcely lose anything as resale is pretty much a snap if you decide later on it do not blow yer skirts up.

[TNsailorman]

I have a .43 Argentine roller that my wife bought me for Christmas in 1963 or 64(I can't remember exactly). She paid a grand total of $30.00 + $5.00 shipping for it. I have been shooting it since and I love to get it out and chuck some lead down range with her. Black and Trail Boss both give good accuracy at 100 yards and it is a soft shooting rifle. It is in really nice condition. I may try to put up some pictures later. james

[Boz330]

I have a .43 Argentine roller that my wife bought me for Christmas in 1963 or 64(I can't remember exactly). She paid a grand total of $30.00 + $5.00 shipping for it. I have been shooting it since and I love to get it out and chuck some lead down range with her. Black and Trail Boss both give good accuracy at 100 yards and it is a soft shooting rifle. It is in really nice condition. I may try to put up some pictures later. james

Don't you just long for those days when you could order through the mail, and get great prices to boot. $20 M-1 Carbines in the grease, $18 1911s. I remember 3 WWII surplus rifles for $39 shipped to your door. Trapdoors for a song and a dance.
Even as recently as the early 90s I picked up a MK2 303 for $59 and it was arsenal rebarred and shoots very nice.

Bob

[brstevns]

If you enjoy reloading and doing things yourself , like I do. Besides bragging about how you make your own brass and lead bullets I would get one of those. I make my own brass from 300 ag, 7mm rem mag. etc all the time. Best part is it last longer then the 43 spanish brass I have. Seems today alot of shooters or reloaders are just to lazy to from there own brass. I always thought it was part of the fun!

[trails4u]

I have an Argentine roller in .43 Spanish, as well as a Peabody Military Rifle (avatar). It is one of my favorite cartridges.... I would have JUMPED on that deal. (Albeit, I'm already setup to load for it...so the OPs point is very much valid for his situation.). My only trouble spot is keeping the brass separated. The roller-fired brass will chamber in the Peabody, but not vice-versa.

[WBH]

Ahhh, the good old days... I bought a 7.7 Arisaka and a 6.5 Carcano from an ad in the back of the American Rifleman. $13 each plus $5 shipping. Then came the 1963-4 gun control acts.

[Jedman]

I own a lot of rolling blocks, rifles and shotguns but not a 43 Spanish. I thought if I ever was to pick up a 43 Spanish I was going to try a chamber adapter. I have made them for other applications and have had good success. What I was thinking for the 43 Spanish was to slug the bore first then find a cast boolit of the proper size then make a simple sizing die to put a little taper in a 460 S&W brass case to fit the boolit then make a chamber cast of the rifle so I could make the adapter a close fit then make a D bit reamer for the 43/ 460 cartridge. The 460 brass is 1.8" long and with a long seated boolit it wouldn't have to long a jump to the rifling so it might shoot decent with light smokeless powder loads. If it shot well it would be a much smaller capacity cartridge that could do anything the original 43 Spanish could ever do.

Jedman

[marlinman93]

I own a lot of rolling blocks, rifles and shotguns but not a 43 Spanish. I thought if I ever was to pick up a 43 Spanish I was going to try a chamber adapter. I have made them for other applications and have had good success. What I was thinking for the 43 Spanish was to slug the bore first then find a cast boolit of the proper size then make a simple sizing die to put a little taper in a 460 S&W brass case to fit the boolit then make a chamber cast of the rifle so I could make the adapter a close fit then make a D bit reamer for the 43/ 460 cartridge. The 460 brass is 1.8" long and with a long seated boolit it wouldn't have to long a jump to the rifling so it might shoot decent with light smokeless powder loads. If it shot well it would be a much smaller capacity cartridge that could do anything the original 43 Spanish could ever do.

Jedman

You may have overlooked a step. What will you do about the extractor? The .43 Spanish rim is quite large, so the extractor wont remove the case. Or will your adapter be removed with extraction, and then the .460 case pushed out of the adapter?

[Jedman]

255079I will be damned ! This weekend I had a table at a small gun show and just today a guy carrying a 43 Spanish offered me a even swap for a gun I had on my table so we traded. The gun came with a box of shells with only 2 missing 18 total and it has a nice bore. So it seems I had to say I have never owned one of these and the next day now I do ? The wood on the gun is really beat up but the action seems to work good and everything is there even the cleaning rod. So when I get the time I will try what I just wrote about making a chamber adapter for it and may even lathe turn a couple 500 gr. .458 cast boolits to the diameter I need for the experiment.

To answer Marlinman, At first I will probably just leave a small recess to snag the rim on the 460 case bad thing is it has a small rim just like the 45 Colt. I doubt I could pull it out with a finger nail being as long as they are so I guess a pocket knife will do when I get that far.
Really I have no intention to fire the real 43 Spanish shells in it unless nothing else works as to me the 43 Spanish has the same problem as the 577- 450 cartridge its to big ! Plus neither would be legal to hunt deer with here in OH, no bottle necks.

Jedman

[Buckshot]

...............I have a 1879 Argentine contract RB rifle I purchased possibly 15 years ago? Went to a smallish gunshow and upon entering I stopped and simply surveyed the venue from one end to the other. At the right end toward the rear I saw a few rifle barrels sticking up, so headed off in that direction. My wife happened to be with me which was kind of cramping my style ,.......if ya know what I mean? In any event at that table the guy had a couple Snider rifles, a repro 3 band Enfield and this M79 Argie RB:

http://www.fototime.com/9540DB6CBC9F317/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/AB44003C728CDE2/standard.jpg

While not pristine, it's in good enough to handle cast lead very well. It's also so long it's tough to get all of it in a single photo.

http://www.fototime.com/3FD9334B7A54862/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/F10AC674585F3A6/standard.jpg

Mine has a bit of the 'Been there, done that' patina. Originally Remington supplied them with the steel being tin plated to resist corrosion. Once declared obsolete they were refurbed, (Reblued, repaired as required) and put into store. In any event the price tag hanging from the trigger guard announced $165. I told him I'd take it and leave my wife as collateral while I went to the bank. Come to find out he and my wife had been talking and it turned out they knew each others' names as they both worked for the Riverside Counties Sherrif's Dept. So he was quite happy with a check.

http://www.fototime.com/7FB7291E230A085/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9D1CA058729714C/standard.jpg

I had to make a new front sight blade as the original was a nub.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/EC5EBD8CEFCB8F0/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CD3C27CAC75B24B/standard.jpg

The Argie has a rather unique chamber in that what is commonly the throat is the same OD as that of the neck area in the chamber. So there is no LEADE as we commonly know it, and there is actually more freebore/windage then desired.

http://www.fototime.com/23E5560C8BB6BF7/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/259673ADE90A4AA/standard.jpg

The above groups were fired at 50 yards, benched. Considering the trigger, the sights and my eyesight I was very pleased however. In any event I decided making paper patched boolits would be kewl to try, plus a custom grease grooved slug might proove illuminating. So above on the left is a 420gr PB design that Dan (Mountain Moulds) and I dreamed up to stretch across that long unsupported throat. Also, to try a patched slug I used (right) the RCBS design to patch. Neither one did as well as the standard slug lubesized and fired witnessed on the above targets.

http://www.fototime.com/119B19CF0A73893/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CFE4FB6484BDAE6/standard.jpg

So I made myself a set of swage dies for my RCE swage press. In the left photo, the 3 items on the left are the 'Coreform/Bleed die. On the right in that pic is the form die and the base form and ejector punch. On the right you can see the freebore there is to deal with.

http://www.fototime.com/AA2B249CC368BD9/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/1C37F2DC7D3722A/standard.jpg

Left and right, are 2 close ups of the Mountain Moulds 420 gr patch and naked showing the length of the leade.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/940A938C7E655FD/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/207DC6C6681BFED/standard.jpg

On the left as they come from the swage die. On the right, a bunch of'em patched and ready to go.

http://www.fototime.com/EBC4DF666082F0F/standard.jpg

Loaded to 'Just' touch.

http://www.fototime.com/A211D6A16DDB4D8/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/E87690FE2B28874/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/8B1E1892515A342/standard.jpg


And you have your up close and personal attachments.

Buckshot

[Jedman]

Buckshot, Thanks for all of the good pics and the great advice. My rifle is a little different than yours as it has no writing or stamps anywhere except the Remington name and patent date on the top tang. Mine has no finish it looks as though it was never blued or the action case colored it's all in the white. The barrel is round all the way to the front of the reciever and the rear sight is sort of a ladder type with a peep hole held to the barrel with 2 screws. I have yet to do anything with it and will probably do a chamber cast first before thinking of any changes. I am starting to soften up on shooting the 43 Spanish ammo it came with as I just might like it just fine and leave it as is. Right now with winter being bitter cold it's more fun thinking about making things than being outdoors shooting .
Great job on those swaged boolits and all the dies you made. Your rifle is much prettier than mine but mine does have a real nice looking bore so that's the main reason I traded for it so that's a big plus.

Jedman

[justashooter]

or, you could have some real fun. i have a spanish roller rebarreled with a modified 1903 springfield barrel in 23-20 that is a real hoot.

[oscarflytyer]

Jed - from what I have read/researched, their were some "big" deals for the Argentine Govt to sell surplus Mil RBs in the '50s. From what I found, they polished all the metal to remove all the pitting, etc (typical for SA guns from all I have seen!) and in the process the Argentine rcver markings were removed. My rcvr is slick. Patent dates on tang are still there on mine. Wood is pretty good. Mine has def been reblued, which says they also did. I was surprised to see the Argentine markings on Buckshot's. My bore is good. In process or working things up for it. One reason I bought this one is that the tang was already d&t'd for a vernier tang sight. I have to have some sort of peep sight to see to shoot irons anymore, and I love a tang vernier! Not shot the 43 Spanish yet, but I also have a custom Husqvarna action in 45-70 with vernier, vernier and custom wood. Shot it and love it!

[oscarflytyer]

Slugged my very first bores ever tonight. Slugged the 43 Spanish. Heard all the stories of oversized chambers and bores on those. When I got the rifle, had nothing/had to get brass/dies/mold. Lucked up on a mold and took a chance that the bore WOULD be oversized. Found an RCBS 44-370 (~.446) double cavity mold (can only get new 1C) with handle on fleabay for $50. Turns out my 43 slugs at .444. That 44-370 should be absolutely perfect for the old war horse! I am thrilled

[marlinman93]

Buckshot, Make a trigger return spring from .045" piano wire and you'll likely cut the trigger pull weight in half or maybe even more! Or buy one from Womack's already made if you'd rather not bend one up. I put them in all my Rolling Block builds and it's taken 12 lb. triggers down to 4 lbs. or less.