First rebarreling attempt

[Ernest]

Hello looking for advice from the experienced.

I have no idea why but I have always wanted to be able to barrel a rifle. Just one of those bucket list things I suppose. Over the years I have acquired all the stuff lathe, indicators, etc. I have taught myself basic turning threading etc. and have watched video's to no end. Now with great trepidation I want to try to barrel a rifle. I have donor actions 1. commercial Mauser 98 ,2. old Ruger 77 and a already trued rem 700.

My interest is not in ultra precision. I would like to barrel either the Mauser 1st choice, or Ruger 2nd choice but I have been told the 700 is the easiest to have a successful out come for a first timer.

Which action should I start with??
Thanks in advance for your input.

[Tracy]

The easy way is a short-chambered, pre-threaded Mauser barrel. I've done a few of those.

[LAGS]

I vote for you trying to do a Mauser 98 action as your first project with a Pre Threaded Short Chambered barrel.
That is what most Gunsmithing schools start with to teach their students the basics.
Probably because they use to be plentyful and Cheap.
But you can find plenty of old Mausers that have been butchered up or need serious rebuilding or even Restoration to semi original styling.
They make fine doner actions.
Good luck on your project.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Tracy is absolutely, 100% correct-- no argument here. But, I do understand where you're coming from. It sounds like you've done a lot of preparation, both in acquiring tools, and by virtue of that fact in studying technique. Like many subjects, this can be very big with lots of information transmitted, but why do that when a fellow named Jack Mitchell wrote it all down in great detail with plenty of photographs in a Gun Digest softback book named (oddly enough!) "Riflesmithing." I think it's out of print, but a copy can usually be found on e-bay. I had 3 copies, 2 of which I used to loan out, and eventually neither came back. I haven't looked at the book for quite awhile, but I'm pretty sure that the rifle he uses for an example in the book is a Mauser. In any event, that is the one that I would start with. Read the book, and as you go along ask any specific questions you may have and there will be plenty of advice and knowhow coming your way. Good luck with your project. :D

[HollowPoint]

Are you rebarreling from scratch with a barrel blank or are you installing a complete or nearly complete pre-turned and threaded barrel?

Either way I just wanted to say that it may seem daunting at first, but then you realize it's not as complicated as reading about how to do it leads one to believe. The first rifle I rebarreled was a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk1. I did it on what one might call a cheap Chinese 9x19 Grizzly hobby lathe. I read as much as I could about it and I watched countless videos on the subject until I had convinced myself that I could do it too. I was like the "Little Train That Could." I was like, "I think I can, I think I can"; then, "I know I can, I know I can" then, I did it.

I was pleasantly surprised that it turned out the way it did. There are things I learned from that project now that I wished I'd known at the time I was doing it but still, all in all it turned out well. The rifle in question tuned out to be more accurate than it had been just before it had blown up in my face. I survived, the action survived and that's when I decided to rebarrel it. I've done five others since then and with each one I learned a bit more about the process. I know you can do it too.

I look forward to hearing your results.

HollowPoint

[country gent]

Before attempting the rebarrel, Practice turning and threading on the lathe. Turn a few threads to get used to it and know what to exepect.

[Moleman-]

You'll do fine. Don't look at the project as a whole, think of it as several steps and work your way through each one. Measuring your action and making a test barrel tenon as suggested is always good practice.

[GBertolet]

I rebarreled a Ruger #3 from 22 Hornet to .357 magnum. It was my first rebarreling attempt. I was gifted a 35 cal Douglas 1-14 barrel blank. I had to do everything from scratch. My headstock would not accept the 1.250 barrel, so all work was done on centers. Threading and getting the shoulder right is critical. Some prefer using centers, but mine was done out of necessity. Lot's of apprehension along the way, but the end result was worth it. When your project is completed, and your gun shoots and looks great, you will be pleased also.

I had two detailed posts this summer on the CBA forum, on rebarreling this Ruger, and another on rebarreling a 788 Rem 30-30 set up for cast bullets. Both done from scratch. If there is any interest, I can repost them over here.

[Ernest]

I don't post much on the internet or spend that much time on it but I have to say this site is just the most friendly and helpful site out there. Not only that but the amount of experience and knowledge here is amazing.
Thank you for your replies. I am just going to jump in and try to do this.
I have done several turning and threading projects and think I have that down pretty well.
I will be doing from scratch with a .411 barrel for the 400 Whelen. I have the reamer already. I'm still working so it will take time but I will keep every one posted.

[LAGS]

A word of caution.
The caliber you selected , The 400 Whelen , can be a little tricky when you set the headspacing.
The shoulder on the cartridge is really narrow and is in some cases able to let the casing form or push the shoulder back if the rifle if the cartridge is forced forward in not a true Controlled Feed action like the Mauser 98 .
That will leave that cartridge casing just before firing , with too loose of headspace because of the shoulder being pushed back.
Please do some reading up on the cartridge so you know any issues that you may come up against.
Just my opinion, But this would not have been the Cartridge I would have chosen for my First Re Barreling from Scratch.

[John Taylor]

The Mauser need a lot more work to make a good rifle , bolt bend or replace, drill and tap for scope and a new safety. The other two choices don't need the extras. Also the Mauser may need the mag box lengthened depending on what it is going to be chambered in. At one time Mauser were so low priced it was easy to build a hunting rifle without spending a lot of money but now you may have more into it than you would pay for a new Remington. I still get quite a few Mausers come into the shop. I had two last month that I refused to do because of bolt set back in the frame. Out of the three mentioned the Ruger would be the easiest. The Remington has the extra cut to clear the bolt and the Mauser butts up on the inside of the frame and has to have a relief cut for the threads.

[swheeler]

The Mauser need a lot more work to make a good rifle , bolt bend or replace, drill and tap for scope and a new safety. The other two choices don't need the extras. Also the Mauser may need the mag box lengthened depending on what it is going to be chambered in. At one time Mauser were so low priced it was easy to build a hunting rifle without spending a lot of money but now you may have more into it than you would pay for a new Remington. I still get quite a few Mausers come into the shop. I had two last month that I refused to do because of bolt set back in the frame. Out of the three mentioned the Ruger would be the easiest. The Remington has the extra cut to clear the bolt and the Mauser butts up on the inside of the frame and has to have a relief cut for the threads.

John he says COMMERICAL MAUSER

[Bent Ramrod]

The only Mauser I rebarreled was a Siamese Mauser. If the other ones are like mine internally, there is one shoulder on the barrel that contacts the end of the receiver and another ahead of the barrel threads that abuts the shoulder of a “socket” inside the receiver.

My barrel blank lost a few inches as I did the job over a couple times in order to make both of these abutments fit at the same time. Later I found a gunsmithing book that said tightening against the inner abutment wasn’t necessary, but I wanted to to it the way I did it anyway.

In any case, I would recommend one of your actions that needs only one shoulder on the barrel to contact the receiver for your first try. I’m not sure, but I think Remington 700s are like this. Go over and over the threads until the last bit is cut out, rather than getting impatient and dialing in another thousandth. You want a sort of “hydraulic” feel when you screw the barrel in by hand, until the last quarter-turn, which needs the action wrench to tighten. You don’t want it to screw together like a nut and bolt from Lowe’s.

Make sure you have all the stuff out of your bolt (firing mechanism, extractor, etc.) when you set the headspace.

[Texas by God]

I rebarreled a Ruger #3 from 22 Hornet to .357 magnum. It was my first rebarreling attempt. I was gifted a 35 cal Douglas 1-14 barrel blank. I had to do everything from scratch. My headstock would not accept the 1.250 barrel, so all work was done on centers. Threading and getting the shoulder right is critical. Some prefer using centers, but mine was done out of necessity. Lot's of apprehension along the way, but the end result was worth it. When your project is completed, and your gun shoots and looks great, you will be pleased also.

I had two detailed posts this summer on the CBA forum, on rebarreling this Ruger, and another on rebarreling a 788 Rem 30-30 set up for cast bullets. Both done from scratch. If there is any interest, I can repost them over here.Please do, we will read it up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Practice threading, get some simple bar stock and thread to fit your chosen action. Grind your threading tool to match the thread. Mauser's are 55* Whitworth, thread guages to grind your tool are available, 60* might work but it is a sign of careless workmanship. For barrels, threading from the shoulder toward 'empty space' eases the process. Cutting tool is upside-down, lathe is run in reverse, removes the concern of stopping the cutting tool before hitting the shoulder. There are a few You Tube videos on this set-up. Practice with round stock, then cut a test thread in bar stock to determine a 'precision' thread. Barrel threading is not tecnichally difficult, it just takes patience and careful measuring. Use a pilot in your barrel to be sure your threads are centered on the bore. Measure, measure, measure, then measure some more.

[HollowPoint]

Practice threading, get some simple bar stock and thread to fit your chosen action. Grind your threading tool to match the thread. Mauser's are 55* Whitworth, thread guages to grind your tool are available, 60* might work but it is a sign of careless workmanship. For barrels, threading from the shoulder toward 'empty space' eases the process. Cutting tool is upside-down, lathe is run in reverse, removes the concern of stopping the cutting tool before hitting the shoulder. There are a few You Tube videos on this set-up. Practice with round stock, then cut a test thread in bar stock to determine a 'precision' thread. Barrel threading is not tecnichally difficult, it just takes patience and careful measuring. Use a pilot in your barrel to be sure your threads are centered on the bore. Measure, measure, measure, then measure some more.


A couple of good YouTube videos that I learned threading, by running your lathe in reverse is put out by a guy named Joe Pieczynski or something like that. I rarely ever dared cut threads before watching this guy's video. I did do thread cutting with my lathe but I did it with alot of anxiety because the slowest speed I could get my chuck to turn was 70 rpm. That was still to fast for my worried hands to flip the switch on the feed.

I happened onto these videos one day and now cutting threads are a breeze for me. I don't want it to seem like just because I was having trouble cutting threads that everyone else does. I just wanted to share the video that relieved me of the anxiety I used to feel any time I had to cut some critical threads. And sorry if I'm taking this thread off on a tangent by including the link to this vid.

HollowPoint


https://youtu.be/Z-dqOi_z5bk

https://youtu.be/kESm2Kozb-4

[GBertolet]

Here are the two links as requested, for my two posts on rebarreling, from the CBA forum. They were my attempts as a novice for these two projects. Enjoy. I PM'ed them to the O.P., at his request, earlier.

https://castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/my-ruger-3-conversion-from-22-hornet-to-357-magnum-an-adventure-in-gunsmithing/

https://castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/rebarreling-my-788-remington-in-30-30-to-30-30-cbm-an-adventure-in-gunsmithing-part-2/

[akajun]

Chamber a barrel stub or old shot out barrel first before you use a good blank. That said it’s basic machining, get the bore running true at two points, cut the tenon and threads, then pre bore the chamber and cut the chamber with the reamer. Go slow and use lots of cutting oil and check your work. FYI on the Mauser , the barrel seats against the internal shoulder in the action, not on the reciever face. In fact if you try to seat both faces it will shoot like poo. Seat the barrel face firmly against the internal seat and give the reciever face .002-.003” clearance. Idk why it is but it works
Good luck with your project.

[fast ronnie]

.001 longer on the end that butts against the inside surface. Take your time and make sure the barrel is set up straight in the lathe. There are several ways to do this. Another thing that helps is to use a floating reamer holder. I made mine, as I didn't want to spend the money for it. If everything is in perfect alignment, you don't need it, but I have yet to see a lathe that is in perfect alignment. My very first barrel job shoots way better than I can.

[sharpshooter3040]

I would vote for the Mauser with a short chambered barrel untill you get the fundamentals down. I’ve done most of the others including lever actions. Once you get the hang of it threading and full chamber projects will make more sense to you good luck and have fun��

[Ernest]

Thanks for all the great advice
The video's by Pieczynski are great. He has a whole series that are good

[Ernest]

OK here we go.
Had the week end off so today I got the lathe leveled. Cleaned and changed out the the 3 jaw to the 4 jaw. Set up the dial indicator. Chucked up a 1.25 aluminum rod and got it dialed in to less than .002 total run out at one point. then mounted the viper bench rest chambering and truing fixture. figured out how to mount my enco test indicator to test the internal bore and was able to dial it in to > .002 total run out. so far so good.

Then put the aluminum rod into the chambering fixture and tried to dial it in at to points about 2.5 inches apart. Yikes that is tough. Could get one point to about .001 run out but the other point would be embarrassingly far off. More You tube for me.

[HollowPoint]

Hang in there. On a couple of my rebarreling projects it took me almost two hours of just going back and forth when dialing in the center of my barrels before I got them as close to dead center as I could. In none of my projects was I ever able to index my barrel to a perfectly indexed state.

HollowPoint

[Petander]

Following.




I have no idea why but I have always wanted to be able to barrel a rifle.

You like to learn. That's one of the best reasons to do things.

I still don't have the lathe but I'm on the edge.

[Ernest]

You know of all the joys of life one that never goes stale is the joy of learning new things:smile:

[Moleman-]

What kind/size of lathe do you have?

[Ernest]

I have two. 1st is a Chinese ,I think Horror Freight, 1982 model 12 x36. That is what I will use. I also have a Sheldon lathe . but I don't have it set up and leveled yet

[Moleman-]

Do most of my barrel work on a 12x36 Sheldon lathe but also have a 13x36 Clausing and a 9x20 enco. The Sheldon and Clausing have a long headstock so a spider isn't an option. Don't use a cathead like the viper you mentioned. Usually just turn the muzzle end of the blank to fit a spindle bore sized bushing and then use a thin aluminum/copper/brass split bushing to hold the barrel in the 4-jaw while chambering. There's a lot of bleed over from chambering long range benchrest rifles that is likely overkill on a guy trying to chamber a barrel to shoot minute of deer. Try a few different ways and find a method that works for you. Green mountain barrels has good quality blanks at reasonable prices if you want to get one of their "gunsmith" blanks to practice on.

[Ernest]

Thanks
I will look into the green mountain barrels. I have not heard of them.

[Moleman-]

Their gunsmith blanks aren't turned on centers like their round blanks are. Often the cost savings is usually more than half of what the turned blank cost is. For the most part you're going to turn the OD of the barrel anyway so why pay to have it turned if you're just going to cut that part off anyway? Odd thing to remember about their unturned gunsmith blanks is that they are either unmarked (chamber end will have less runout) or will have the muzzle marked unless they've changed it in the last two months. Their regular turned blanks will have the chamber end marked though. Been using their barrels for about 10 years now and am happy with them.

[Ernest]

"There's a lot of bleed over from chambering long range benchrest rifles that is likely overkill on a guy trying to chamber a barrel to shoot minute of deer."
have been thinking about this. Sounds pretty wise . Got floating reamer holder from Brownnels Slowly moving forward.

[izzyjoe]

My friend taught me to cut a relief next to the shoulder, so that way you don't crash the bit. It takes a little practice, but you start slow and learn when to release the half nuts, and draw the crosslide out. I've never cut threads upside down, it don't seem hard, but I just cut to the left the way I was taught.

[GBertolet]

I was taught also, to leave a slightly recessed, unthreaded area at the shoulder, maybe .100. This will give you a area, to stop your threading at.

[44magLeo]

I guess I cheated when I unscrewed a 243 barrel and screwed in a 250 savage barrel. I used a Savage Model 11.
Bought a chambered barrel with a taper to match the stock barrel. Tough part was breaking the barrel loose.
Shoots well.
Leo

[country gent]

You might try using 2 indicators one at the chamber and one at the muzzle work them in together make an adjustment check other end work back and forth. Its a learning curve. You want snug fitting pins in the bore to indicate them

[Ernest]

Well life/work sure gets in the way of my play time but I am making progress.
I decided to use a tang safety 77 Ruger in 30-06 as the donor. The cartridge will be 400 Brown Whelen because I all ready have a rifle that was made in the caliber. . I have done all the research on it and I have a reamer, go gauge no go. Also have cases dies trimming set up etc. I have a Douglas barrel now.
Again life got in the way and I have not threaded or used the lathe in several years. I took some advice and started out with an aluminum rod.. Turned it down successfully after a couple of false starts. I then started to thread it... Oops ...I am really happy I started low and slow and only screwed up an aluminum rod:shock: but I figured out what I did wrong.
So here is the plan. 1. get back in the saddle with the aluminum turn it down and thread it.
2. I have several old take off barrels I will indicate one turn it down and thread and make sure it fits properly the action.
3. put the Douglas barrel in turn thread and chamber.

[country gent]

What was the opps?
Several things make threading much easier. Cut the thread relied mentioned above. Use a live center with an extended point, this gives more room also.
I set the tool in upside down in the holder. Grind so its still against the shoulder. If your using a lantern type post you mat need a taller rocker,in aloris style holders a small block under the adjusting wheel Helps alot. Set the lathe up normally for right hand thread. Turn on in reverse . This will feed out from shoulder to end in reverse its the right hand thread. The advantages to the upside down tool are 1) you have more room to stop the tool. 2) chip control is much better. the chip breaks and falls off down. 3) coolant has a better flow to the cutting edge.
The draw back to this is you have to start in the narrow relief cut meaning hitting it right on.
Use plenty of heavy cutting fluid Here is one place the old thick sulfur oils shine.
Hone the tools to a sharp edge to reduce cutting pressures.

[Ernest]

the chuck on my lathe is a screw on chuck, right hand threads. Is there a danger up unscrewing the chuck if you do left to right threading with the cutter upside down. ?

[country gent]

If its clean and tight it should be okay. starting out use cross feed to zero clear work and compound to feed. Take light passes.

[Ernest]

If its clean and tight it should be okay. starting out use cross feed to zero clear work and compound to feed. Take light passes.

I think I will try that at the lowest speed. If the chuck gets loose I will see it in time to stop.

[Ernest]

found time to spend the day at the shop :grin: . Finally my Rugger 77 action is wearing an aluminum rod that is properly threaded to fit the action. I did just about every thing you could do wrong wrong... I suppose every one but me knows this but I figured out that you can start again by using magnifier glasses you can reposition the thread cutter in the partially cut threads. If you disengage power to the threading rod and turn it by hand until it lines up with the thread dial you can start over and it will follow your previous cuts.

now the question is how do yu know when the threads are deep enough. I just kept cutting taking very small cuts until the action would screw on. If you don't have that option how do you know when the treads are deep enough?
Since I am running at the lathes slowest speed I ordered some HSS threading inserts and holders.

The next step is to take and take off barrel and cut if off and try to thread it to fit. Then I will try with the Douglas barrel. I am having fun and appreciate all the advice.

[country gent]

An old trick that helps a lot is lay a piece of clean white paper under the thread when recatching it. The white color and reflected light makes the gaps stand out better.

As to measuring a thread the cheapest was is set of thread wires and a Mic. This does take some match also. You can use them as a comparitor by measuring the barrels threads and repeating the dimension. A gage can be made single pointing the thread until it just fits then split and drill and tap 2 screw holes one pull and one pusher. The pusher can be used to open the puller to tighten this can be set to the barrel lightly snug and used to test thread.

[Ernest]

well happy days!
I had been really spinning my wheels with the project of teaching myself to thread. Today a real machinist came out and spent a couple of hours with me... What a difference. I didn't realize that with my lathe you can't just turn the compound to 29 1/2 half degrees so I didn't have it set properly. It actually took him a little while to figure out how to set it. He showed me another thing about making large moves with the dials so that there is enough movement to take out all the back lash out of the the threads. With his supervision I was able to cut a perfect 1x 16tpi thread .. SO now I am off and running. I ordered a Long reach indicator to dial the barrel in.

Amazing what a little help from some one who knows what he is doing can do

this afternoon I refashioned my out board spider so that it threads on . Off to the races

[jsn]

Commercial Mauser 98 would be the easiest IMO, as there is no counterbore for the bolt nose like the Rem 700. I've never seen the thread for a Ruger 77, if there is no clearance cut for the extractor like a Win 70 it would be basically the same as the M98 except for thread dimension differences.

[Ernest]

the model 77 is very simple. No extractor cut.