.458 Winchester Magnum is Ohio deer legal.

[DanishM1Garand]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QJReNpeWSjrLchJB7

I can’t seem to link a photo. I have a line on a rifle in .458 Winchester Magnum. These can be loaded to trapdoor Springfield levels. This would be a fine deer legal cartridge. The game warden was not going to give me a straight answer so I got two dummy cartridges from @725 and @richdog66 and mailed one to the DNR.

I got the linked letter in today’s mail.

[Beerd]

It's good that you got it in writing and signed.
..

[DanishM1Garand]

The game warden was yes....No.... I don’t know....

[jonp]

ok....This does prove a point, though. No matter what law the government puts in place an enterprising citizen will find a way around it.

A 458 Mag, though....Guess that would work on a whitetail :holysheep

[Tracy]

Oh, you mean the .45-90 Belted?

[Johnch]

LOL I thought about using my Savage in 458 WM this fall on deer here in Ohio
I even have 3 different cast loads

But the BFR in 45/70 was ready and it worked

John

[richhodg66]

ok....This does prove a point, though. No matter what law the government puts in place an enterprising citizen will find a way around it.

A 458 Mag, though....Guess that would work on a whitetail :holysheep

Not necessarily overkill. If you cast and reload, a .458 can become a nice, mild .45-70 very, very easily. Some kind of a 300ish grain flat nosed .45-70 bullet and say 35 grains of 5744. It'll flatten Bambi and not kick anymore than a .308 or similar.

Personally, I think this is a much better idea than a pistol caliber lever gun or something silly like that .350 Legend.

Now I want to go out and buy a Ruger #1 Tropical. My .458 is the size and weight of an antitank rifle, no good for hunting.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have used a Number Ruger 458 WM for deer loaded with cast 405 grain WFN ...... very effective :drinks:

[clintsfolly]

Have used my 458AccRel on deer and a pig. Shot the pig on a game ranch. My “ Guide” was surprised by it. He,s remark was great! I have never seen the ground hit a pig that hard!

[superior]

You can never have too much gun....unless it’s too much trouble.

[robbyPGP2014]

I believe .458 WINMag is no longer cataloged in the#1 Tropical,because I have 3 people trying to get me to price mine.It is offered in.458 Lott, or it was earlier in the year.It can be very pleasant to shoot and accurate.Mine will cloverleaf 3 shots @100 yds with 5744 & different BP loads.It surprised me.

[richhodg66]

I believe .458 WINMag is no longer cataloged in the#1 Tropical,because I have 3 people trying to get me to price mine.It is offered in.458 Lott, or it was earlier in the year.It can be very pleasant to shoot and accurate.Mine will cloverleaf 3 shots @100 yds with 5744 & different BP loads.It surprised me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can shoot .458 Win Mag in a .458 Lott chamber, right?

I think one of those would really be cool to play with.

[725]

I took my .458 WM Tropical and a Dave Mason reamer and made a .458 Lott. At the time I had visions of returning to Africa, but alas, the farm, kids, retirement, surgery, ......... all got in the way. I load it down with an old group buy, wide meplat boolit and puff it along like a trap door. It's the neatest thing. Shoots soft, is accurate and chunks a boolit just fine. If I ever had the need, I can crank it back up to something suitable to weld on the deck of a battle ship to engage medium sized ships. .458 WM brass works great.

Congrats to DanishM1Garrand for an effort that will benefit many in his State.

[Greg S]

You have those deerasoous down there in OH. I guess I could use my Lott.

[DanishM1Garand]

You have those deerasoous down there in OH. I guess I could use my Lott.

No we have a straight wall rifle cartridges law. .30-30 or .35 Remington are a no go. I was offered a .458 win mag and perusing the loading data it can be loaded in the .45-70 or .454 Casull range. The law is vague enough that I asked in writing.

[dkf]

Smart getting it in writing and not going off of what an officer says.

I always thought how they come up with some of these cartridge restrictions made no sense at all.

[Jedman]

Danish, I have lived in OH my whole life and game laws still seem very strang. Yes a 458 Win Mag is a legal deer cartridges as is it is also legal to hunt squirrels with.
Before OH passed the strait walled cartridge rifle law about 4 years ago the 458 Win Mag was still legal to hunt deer with as long as it had a minumum 5" barrel and was chambered in a handgun. :holysheep
BUT! If you use a shotgun it cannot have a all metallic case ? That makes a lot of sense right :groner:

Jedman

[country gent]

Naw they have evolved to hair made of Kevlar now. Bullet proofed deer. :kidding:

[MaLar]

Watch your backstops you'll need several to stop the hunk of lead.

[DanishM1Garand]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can shoot .458 Win Mag in a .458 Lott chamber, right?

I think one of those would really be cool to play with.

Evidently.458 Win Mag fires in Lott chambers without issue. https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2018/9/14/head-to-head-458-win-mag-vs-458-lott/

[dverna]

Silly rules written by ignorant people.

[Ramjet-SS]

I believe .458 WINMag is no longer cataloged in the#1 Tropical,because I have 3 people trying to get me to price mine.It is offered in.458 Lott, or it was earlier in the year.It can be very pleasant to shoot and accurate.Mine will cloverleaf 3 shots @100 yds with 5744 & different BP loads.It surprised me.

I have a take off barrel from a number1 in 458 WM. It was the tropical.

[rockrat]

Gonna sell it??

[swheeler]

They work fine for deer, load it down you don't need 500 grains going 2100 fps unless you want to line em up 5 deep and save lead and powder. The 340 Lee PC at about 1400 is more than enough and fun to shoot out of an 8.8 lb 458.https://i.imgur.com/IZcPe9W.jpg

[Tatume]

Now I want to go out and buy a Ruger #1 Tropical. My .458 is the size and weight of an antitank rifle, no good for hunting.

My Ruger No. 1H 458 Win Mag weighs 10-1/2 pounds with factory sights. My Ruger No. 1H 375 H&H weighs 9-1/2 pounds.

Paul Mathews, in his book Forty Years With The 45/70 said his 458 Win Mag was the best 45/70 he ever owned.

[bikerbeans]

The 458 lott would also be ohio deer legal. The 45-120 and 50-140 as well several African big game rim cartridge are ohio deer legal as well.

BB

[Texas by God]

SWheeler that's a nice .458 Mauser.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[swheeler]

Thank you, haven't got around to jeweling the bolt yet, someday. I like that it weights .4 lb less than my M70 Winchester in 264, and at that it's still heavy to carry all day hunting.

[Ramjet-SS]

Gonna sell it??

I will dig it out tomorrow but sure why not.

[dk17hmr]

The people that write game laws don't seem to know what they are talking about everywhere. Here in Wyoming it's legal to hunt elk with a 38 special but illegal to hunt anything with a 10mm because they based the law on over all length.

458 win mag would be an excellent cast bullet hunting rifle go from sub Sonic heavies to hold on to your teeth heavies.

[richhodg66]

253599253600

My .458. Weighs just shy of 13 pounds and is proportionally large in the stock. Way too awkward to hunt with, but it is a lot of fun to shoot. I need to get some better kind of sighting system on it.

[blikseme300]

253613
253614
My trusty Ruger M77 tang safety 458WM and the loaded Lee 450gn plain based CB gets it done on deer. Pushed with SR4759 to 1750fps it is still pleasant to shoot and accuracy past 200 yards is good.

[gumbo333]

Now this thread is just plain cool!

[jonp]

Not necessarily overkill. If you cast and reload, a .458 can become a nice, mild .45-70 very, very easily. Some kind of a 300ish grain flat nosed .45-70 bullet and say 35 grains of 5744. It'll flatten Bambi and not kick anymore than a .308 or similar.

Personally, I think this is a much better idea than a pistol caliber lever gun or something silly like that .350 Legend.

Now I want to go out and buy a Ruger #1 Tropical. My .458 is the size and weight of an antitank rifle, no good for hunting.

I'm on that trail myself with my 416 Ruger and reduced cast loads.

[canuck4570]

253613
253614
My trusty Ruger M77 tang safety 458WM and the loaded Lee 450gn plain based CB gets it done on deer. Pushed with SR4759 to 1750fps it is still pleasant to shoot and accuracy past 200 yards is good.

do you get leading with your plain base bullet at 1750 fps
what is your alloy please
I have a 450 Rigby and would love to shoot my 500 gr at that velocity without leading

[Jeff Michel]

My hunting buddy used a .458 Lott this year. It worked just fine on Ohio whitetails:mrgreen:

[richhodg66]

do you get leading with your plain base bullet at 1750 fps
what is your alloy please
I have a 450 Rigby and would love to shoot my 500 gr at that velocity without leading

It looks like he's powder coating, but I'm curious too. Plain based worked great for me in the .45-70 and .458 but I never pushed them that fast.

[jonp]

I'm also I interested as I'm specifically going to keep the velocity down for recoil on my cast

[richhodg66]

Powder coated or not, you could still push those plain based bullets a lot slower than that and still have a very effective round for realistic deer hunting ranges. I tend to hunt from ambush positions, either tree stands or hidden on the ground and that means my shots are usually woods distances at unalarmed deer. Even weak Trapdoor ballistics worked fine for me.

[fcvan]

It looks like he's powder coating, but I'm curious too. Plain based worked great for me in the .45-70 and .458 but I never pushed them that fast.

I have a 45 Colt 20" Carbine which can push some pretty amazing velocity. Lee 452-255 RF over a charge of I4227 was getting me almost 2000 fps. Plain based, Powder Coated, very accurate. I have also launched a NOE 225-62 RN plain based and designed just for PC I get an average of 2250 fps from a Mini 14 and a few AR 15 rifles with 16" barrels. I have an H-Bar 24" single shot, and the same loads are yielding 2450 fps.

All loads mentioned above were with ACWW/range lead at 50/50. In all fairness, the .223 loads would probably benefit from a little harder alloy. I am tempted to get some Hard Ball lead and some Linotype and see what can be done. Right now, I get an 1" to 1 1/4" at 100 yds, but would like to see if I can tighten that up. BTW, the 45 Colt Carbine is a hoot to shoot a dead soft lead Round Ball over a light charge of Bullseye at 900 fps. Quiet like a .22 lr, hits like a hammer. No leading, didn't even lube the ball, just loaded it knowing I was only testing 5. I have 20 lbs of the RBs in a container, now I just need to PC some and have them around for grins and giggles.

[canuck4570]

ok blikseme we all want to know
are they powder coated or just lube
and again do you have leading

[blikseme300]

ok blikseme we all want to know
are they powder coated or just lube
and again do you have leading

They are powder coated and lubed with Bens Red through a Star sizer at .459". My experience has been that accuracy is better with lower ES & SD numbers when lubed. My theory is that filling the lube grooves supports the base or skirt and prevents it from slumping or collapsing when fired.

There is no leading and the bore is coated with a nice protective layer. Here in the high humidity of Deep South Texas this is a bonus as I don't want any rust in the barrels of my guns.

[canuck4570]

well I just have to try this powder stuff

thanks

[blikseme300]

do you get leading with your plain base bullet at 1750 fps
what is your alloy please
I have a 450 Rigby and would love to shoot my 500 gr at that velocity without leading

No leading at all. The alloy is isocore container alloy blended 50/50 with Pb. BTW the hole in the picture is the exit.

[blikseme300]

well I just have to try this powder stuff

thanks

The powder is John Deere green from vendor Smoke here on the forum. Shake 'n Bake and then baked in a modified toaster oven so the bases are coated with PC as well. This may or may not make a difference, don't know.

[jonp]

No leading at all. The alloy is isocore container alloy blended 50/50 with Pb. BTW the hole in the picture is the exit.

Lucky me I have 60lbs of the core from a good member here I bought a couple of years ago. I'm going to try the 50/50 without the powder coat and see what happens

[canuck4570]

blikseme300

have you tried to reach that speed with just lubed bullets?

[blikseme300]

blikseme300

have you tried to reach that speed with just lubed bullets?

No, the mold I have drops the CBs at .4575” so the PC adds the needed thickness to get to the required diameter.

[robg]

People Who make the rules never know what they are talking about ,same idiots over here .most makes no sense at all .eg the land I shot over I can use a 243 but not a 308.why?

[seetrout]

I'm wondering how it would work to take some of the 45 cal muzzleloading sabots for .358 bullets would work with a 180gr .358 XTP? Wonder what the OD is on those sabots?

[richhodg66]

It would work much better with a big, full diameter flat nosed bullet and those are plentiful and easy to produce. Inline sabots would just retard the performance of the rifle.

[Beaverhunter2]

Thanks so much for posting this!

I saved a copy of the pic- if .458WM is legal, my .450 Marlin should be too! Belted- but straight walled. :wink:

Well done, Sir!

John

[725]

Yes, Danish, just like a .38 in a .357 mag. I enjoy all the ribbing I get when this subject comes up. The first blush is always -"OMG, is there anything left after the shot?" Then they see it actually work and amazement is the usual response. The vast majority of .45-70 shooters far exceed the power levels of my load with the .458 WM (actually .458 Lott because I reamed the chamber). When I let loose with a real .458 Lott, the earth tilts off it's axis just a little bit, but the anemic .458 WM is a powder puff. Go forth and conquer. The WM is one of those that has an amazing useful range of performance.

[arlon]

Pawn shop in my neighborhood had a CZ in 458. I wondered what to heck anyone would want with such a thing. Now it makes sense.

[Crustyshooter]

I have a Ruger #1 Tropical in .458 Win Mag that I bought new in 1991 and as luck would have it, I have not seen an elephant on my front lawn ever since! Being a shame to have this beautiful rifle just gathering dust in my gun safe, I decided to go the cast bullet route to get some use out of it on smaller game. I tried 292, 405 and 500 gn cast bullets sized to .460 and as cast, with several different powders like 5744, 3031, Unique and a few others loaded from mouse fart loads to loads well past my threshold of pain with no luck! At 50 yds, my shots were hardly hitting the 3 foot square target backstop and those that did were sideways! Measuring the rifles throat, I found that I would have to seat a 500 gn (Lee) so far out on the case that only 1/16" of the bullet was seated on the case! Jacketed bullets, (Win factory 500 SPs) shoot great but are very punishing and I am 6'3" and 280 lbs! Any suggestions? My 2- 45/70's shoot superbly with any cast bullet and powder charge that I have put through them!

[Geezer in NH]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QJReNpeWSjrLchJB7

I can’t seem to link a photo. I have a line on a rifle in .458 Winchester Magnum. These can be loaded to trapdoor Springfield levels. This would be a fine deer legal cartridge. The game warden was not going to give me a straight answer so I got two dummy cartridges from @725 and @richdog66 and mailed one to the DNR.

I got the linked letter in today’s mail.

Happens with unknowing [stupid] legislators making laws with no idea what the subject is about.

Next what is wrong with using a .458 handload for deer anyway.

[jonp]

Happens with unknowing [stupid] legislators making laws with no idea what the subject is about.

Next what is wrong with using a .458 handload for deer anyway.

Nothing that I can see. Since a good member here sent me some cast to try in my 416 Ruger I've downloaded some and they are quite pleasant to shoot. The Ruger has become a one rifle do all. A little heavy for coyote but for any type of game animal a good deal.

The miracle of cast strikes again!

[RU shooter]

What exactly is the reasoning for not allowing bottle neck ctgs. ?

[richhodg66]

What exactly is the reasoning for not allowing bottle neck ctgs. ?

I think the reasoning was that people would hunt with rifles designed to use pistol cartridges, mainly lever guns in things like .44 magnum, which wouldn't really carry any farther than a shotgun slug or muzzle loader. Of course, people are going to do what they can to make the most of the rules, hence the existence of the .350 Legend.

A .458 Win Mag, loaded to what it's capable of, will carry a long ways and hit hard at that long range. The laws are stupid and fairly easy to get around as this thread is all about.

Fortunately, we're all handloaders and bullet casters and there's no reason to hunt deer with a full house .458. It becomes a very pleasant Trapdoor Springfield quite easily.

[725]

The prejudicial mind puts the world into familiar boxes. Stepping outside the box truly expands the useful bounds of the .458 WM, or in my case, the converted .458 WM made into the .458 Lott. I get one hole accuracy from mild loads and have never cranked it up to anything over trap door stuff. I have loaded monoliths and jacketed to the capacity of the Ruger #1 and those dog-gone things will rock your world. I like mild recoil and accuracy. Suits my hunting style, pocket book, and miserable rotator cuff.

[RU shooter]

So to the law makers it's a safety thing ? Stupid ! Haven't been into Ohio in a few years but from what I remember it wasn't that much different than Pa . Sure I can see in some more populated areas or counties but the entire state ! I believe there's only two counties in Pa that are shotgun MZ archery only and both are sorounding the two biggest cities . Hope it stays that way .

[richhodg66]

So to the law makers it's a safety thing ? Stupid ! Haven't been into Ohio in a few years but from what I remember it wasn't that much different than Pa . Sure I can see in some more populated areas or counties but the entire state ! I believe there's only two counties in Pa that are shotgun MZ archery only and both are sorounding the two biggest cities . Hope it stays that way .

I've hunted on military bases and one National Forest tract that had that restriction of shotguns or muzzle loaders. Some of the slug loadings and inline muzzle loaders now are as or more dangerous at longer ranges than some pretty good traditional deer rifles. Really doesn't make much sense, but I expect more areas will be following as the human population continues to grow.

[RU shooter]

I've hunted on military bases and one National Forest tract that had that restriction of shotguns or muzzle loaders. Some of the slug loadings and inline muzzle loaders now are as or more dangerous at longer ranges than some pretty good traditional deer rifles. Really doesn't make much sense, but I expect more areas will be following as the human population continues to grow.
I agree there does seem to be a trend towards this . Personally I've never been in a spot hunting where a inline muzzleloader or rifled shotgun would have been under gunned for the range I can see deer . But I sure would miss having my ever faithful deer rifle with me

[Shawlerbrook]

Those Ohio-type laws are ridiculous, but if I had to comply I would just opt for a 44 mag. levergun.

[Geezer in NH]

It seems they are afraid of guns that can shoot 5-6 miles and hurt someone. Dumb as shooting at a freaking deer will not do that. They are looking at total range figures [30+%] for a caliber, never mind reality.

[seetrout]

Unless they also restrict the length of the cartridge there are lots of good options in a traditional rifle. .32-40 about equals the .32 special. There's the .38-55 and .375 Win .40-60 ballard .405 winchester .444 Marlin and .45-70.
However, my Great-Grandfathers model 92 winchester in .38-40 is not legal?!?
I commend you for thinking outside the box with your .458.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
It may be a few more years in the future but maybe before I a too old to drag a corn cruncher through the river bottoms ILL-noise will decree straight wall cartridges legal. Out will come the 86 Winchester 50 Alaskan !
But I agree. The "politicos" have not the slightest idea about what they sign. If some assistant thinks the bill is OK or their "fellow golf buddy" likes the bill it gets a vote...
But fear not. The guberments of many other countries are no better. In Peru the terrible military calibers of 9mm and .223 are banned but the .308 is just fine.
Mike in LLama Land

[richhodg66]

Straight walled cases... .351 Winchester Self Loading anyone?

Except for the .45-70, that's the only straight walled case I'd killed deer with, but it worked fine. I do tend to hunt close, though.

[rbuck351]

Most 458 Wins that I've seen are heavier than I would like to carry around in the woods. I Have a Puma 92 in 454 that throws a 320gr cast at right at 2000fps if you want to push it. I shot one deer with it using that same boolit at 1600 and it worked just fine. Thumb size hole in and out and the rifle is light ( right at 6 lbs) and handy.

Law makers shouldn't be allowed to make laws on things they know nothing about.

Nice to see folks thinking out of the box.

[44MAG#1]

The 458 Win Mag is a good handgun cartridge too. In an Encore with a 14 inch barrel it ooses not as much as most people might believe compared to a 24 inch rifle. Properly set up it is heavy for a handgun but it is interesting to say the least.

[725]

44mag#1. Years and years ago I shot an XP-100 (bot action handgun) in .458 WM. The guy was going to Africa - or so he said - OMG! I shot it once. Once was enough. He had it stoked up with some monster load. Bless him. Loaded down to reality, it would have been a dandy game getter. I'm a .458 WM fan, right along with the .45-70.