You tube video of a Magma bullet sizer automated automatic operation that's nice

[6bg6ga]

I guess I get excited like a little kid every time I get to observe in person or watch a decent video of reloading based equipment. Those that own a Star or Magma with a feeding assembly know that after time sitting down feeding the tube and pulling the handle your arms and shoulders start to get sore. Anyway I would suggest that anyone wanting to automate their machine to view the video that a gentleman by the name of Dan made about a week and a half ago. The operation is simple as it involves a few hand made parts and the purchase of a timed relay, 4 way 2 position control valve and a air cylinder. This guy has even gone to the trouble of making up some of the "special parts" to sell for those who don't have a machine shop in their garage.

Hats off to Dan for the cost effectiveness, and kiss principle of his project.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0TlizGeRzY

[BNE]

Nicely done.

[jmorris]

Not a magma but on my last one I used a gear motor instead of pneumatics.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zbImsdkbg

[jmorris]

The first one I built is pneumatic though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANEMBS_V_0

[onelight]

Those sizers are all amazing !
Especially to a guy that hit his engineering peak at 10 years old with a windmill made from an erector set. :smile:

[6bg6ga]

Not a magma but on my last one I used a gear motor instead of pneumatics.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01zbImsdkbg

jmorris's work is amazing.

I've just about given up hope on making my gear reduction motor and speed control work with the Magma/Star sizer. I simply cannot find a flat face pulley with a 1/2 inch shaft to fit my Bodine gear reduction motor and the shaft on the Star/Magma sizer lubricator.

So far I'm starting to look at Dan's work seriously but it would be nice just for grins to have one of my sizers work with Dan's air setup and one working with my Bodine gear reduction motor and speed control.
So close and yet so far from completion.

253497

253498

[6bg6ga]

I keep scrounging around the garage picking out more pieces that I can use with the sizer project and I think I'm halfway there now. Wire I have along with a timed relay and 9 pin octal socket and fittings so the only thing left for me is to order a 4 way two position solenoid control valve and the air cylinder after Christmas. I'm cheap so I'm going to try a different cylinder with the same specifications as the one Dan listed along with a different brand of solenoid control valve.

[HATCH]

good work but this has been done before.

[6bg6ga]

good work but this has been done before.

And so has your automation of a Magma bullet caster yet you came up with yet a better way of performing the same task with sheer elegance and class.

I seem to recall it Magma sizing being done a few years back with a gentleman (wimm something?) using a joy stick to move the cylinder back and forth. Unless I have missed something I've never seen a Magma/Star run non-stop with a timed relay setup. Please do post it memory permits so the rest of us can enjoy it and possibly gain some information on it.

At any rate the its been done before really doesn't carry much weight or shouldn't in my opinion. I think unless I am very mistaken the point of this forum or any forum to to provide information. God knows we have used and used the PID thing time after time. The PID control is so elementary that a 2nd grader could do it. Yet it keeps being posted so what is the difference? My opinion again when better ways come across we should view them and elaborate on the engineering and construction of such. A forum is supposed to be a place to learn information and possibly have some meaningful communication with other members.

Its been done before by wimm, jmorris, and others yet each seems to take a different twist on it...again my opinion.

Maybe I was wrong to post something that was so simple, requires very little skill to wire and put together and has proven by the video that it does indeed run and run flawlessly again my opinion. Silly me I thought other members with the same thought of up the road automating their Star/Magma might just enjoy this video. But then again its been done before.

When I finally get the Bodine gear reduction setup running I will probably post that because it is a different way of doing the same thing meaning I have yet to see a Bodine gear reduction motor with speed control implemented to do this task.

[HATCH]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2KwiXB4H8w

march 2013

[HATCH]

Wyman Winn pneumatic setup, my timing setup.
he is running it slow but it is capable of around 1800 bullets per hr if you can keep tubes loaded.

I could never get that rate as I couldn't keep up.
I would start with 10 tubes of 50.
I would stop after a hr of production. My highest rate was 1200 bullets.
This was lubing with Magma lube. Not just coated.

[djryan13]

Any chance the Lee APP press could be automated like that? Hoping it works well for sizing bullets. Unfortunately, I am not sure it would be reliable enough and feed correctly.

[6bg6ga]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQrZflUtiPY

This is the one I was thing about. His first video and if memory is correct this one was followed by a joy stick operated Star sizer video. Maybe I was mistaken since I can't find the a joystick video by winn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Vkfr4l_Qc

This is what I was thinking of. I thought it was the bullet sizer with a joy stick but its the Master Caster.

[onelight]

Any chance the Lee APP press could be automated like that? Hoping it works well for sizing bullets. Unfortunately, I am not sure it would be reliable enough and feed correctly.
I don't think the plastic feeder parts and the spring that slides the case or bullet to the die would be very reliable for automation I like the Lee stuff but don't see it as commercial or industrial grade equipment more light to medium duty.
Not that some of these wizards could not make one work :smile:

[6bg6ga]

I don't think the plastic feeder parts and the spring that slides the case or bullet to the die would be very reliable for automation I like the Lee stuff but don't see it as commercial or industrial grade equipment more light to medium duty.
Not that some of these wizards could not make one work :smile:

Maybe a thread on automation of the Lee would help.

[onelight]

Maybe a thread on automation of the Lee would help.
Sorry for drifting , point taken .

[6bg6ga]

Sorry for drifting , point taken .

No, I just thought that a thread on the Lee might be more beneficial since there are a number of members that have recently acquired the Lee press for sizing. Absolutely no problem with the drifting I probably do more of it than anybody.

hey, all for trying to automate anything. Like I mentioned my thoughts were to have a devoted Lee press automation thread and this would help to centrally locate all the information and thus make any info lookup a simple task. Your free to post anything you wish on this thread and certainly didn't mean to come off wrong and if you took it wrong please do accept my apology.

[dverna]

I like the electric powered concept. I have an electric drive on my PW shotgun loader and it is quiet. Works well and the slip clutch keeps it from creating a problem if there is a jam. I doubt it has the power to do bullet sizing though.

Jmorris makes me drool with his stuff.

[6bg6ga]

I'm trying to find several flat faced pulleys( for the lack of a better term) something I can drill and mount an adjustable arm to and something I can incorporate a slip clutch possibly. My Bodine gear reduction motors have a top speed of 42 RPMS and with the speed control I can vary that all the way from 1.5-42RPMS. Maybe some type of torque sensing circuit that would open up upon excessive force/jam and shut down power to the motor.

[6bg6ga]

Wyman Winn pneumatic setup, my timing setup.
he is running it slow but it is capable of around 1800 bullets per hr if you can keep tubes loaded.

I could never get that rate as I couldn't keep up.
I would start with 10 tubes of 50.
I would stop after a hr of production. My highest rate was 1200 bullets.
This was lubing with Magma lube. Not just coated.

I can surely see that coated would be faster since extra care wouldn't be need to have full lube pump movement. So 1200 sizing and lubing is a good feat in my opinion.

[onelight]

No, I just thought that a thread on the Lee might be more beneficial since there are a number of members that have recently acquired the Lee press for sizing. Absolutely no problem with the drifting I probably do more of it than anybody.

hey, all for trying to automate anything. Like I mentioned my thoughts were to have a devoted Lee press automation thread and this would help to centrally locate all the information and thus make any info lookup a simple task. Your free to post anything you wish on this thread and certainly didn't mean to come off wrong and if you took it wrong please do accept my apology.
I miss understood my fault entirely , I do tend to drift and don't want to steer a post from the original intent.
But when the little Lee starts getting delivered I hope to see a thread like you mention .
I am very interested in it primarily for depriming brass for me the other features would be a bonus.
It is cheap enough to be a good candidate for a titewad like me to experiment with.:smile:

[6bg6ga]

As one that has spent a long time looking for information on a subject before starting a new thread I will admit that the site suffers from the lack of being able to pull up information easily. I don't know what it is but I do a search and come up with about everything except what I wanted to find. If the Lee thread is started I'm pretty sure it will also become a sticky and if so having the information in one thread will make it a lot easier for the mods/Admin to incorporate the information in a sticky.

The bad thing about posting on the internet is things can be taken entirely different than what the person posting actually wanted. I just want make sure that I wasn't taken wrong and it wasn't my intention to possibly sound like what you posted didn't have any merit on this thread.

[HATCH]

gear motors in the US are very expensive.
Pneumatics are cheap.

I really wish someone would figure out a kit for the gear motor for the Magma.

[StuckonGlocks21]

I guess I get excited like a little kid every time I get to observe in person or watch a decent video of reloading based equipment. Those that own a Star or Magma with a feeding assembly know that after time sitting down feeding the tube and pulling the handle your arms and shoulders start to get sore. Anyway I would suggest that anyone wanting to automate their machine to view the video that a gentleman by the name of Dan made about a week and a half ago. The operation is simple as it involves a few hand made parts and the purchase of a timed relay, 4 way 2 position control valve and a air cylinder. This guy has even gone to the trouble of making up some of the "special parts" to sell for those who don't have a machine shop in their garage.

Hats off to Dan for the cost effectiveness, and kiss principle of his project.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0TlizGeRzY

I live next door to Dan, the creator of this air cylinder powered star sizer. As luck would have it, we’re both into shooting. He evolved from casting fishing hook sinkers to casting boolits, and sizing on a magma/star sizer. Never happy with just using the sizer as intended, he watched a YouTube video on an automated sizer and tried to get more information about it to automate his star. He couldn’t get any response so he did it himself. I would check his progress occasionally and he has improved his design continuously. The last time I was over, I sized around 1300 boolits in 20 minutes. Effortlessly. He doesn’t use the tubes. I just dropped the boolits into the short tube and was able to keep up easily. Before I knew it I had sized 1300 coated boolits. It’s such an easy machine to use too. Once turned on, it runs continuously until you turn it off. All you have to do is drop in the boolits. Very easy to keep up with.

[6bg6ga]

gear motors in the US are very expensive.
Pneumatics are cheap.

I really wish someone would figure out a kit for the gear motor for the Magma.

Well what happens when you have several gear reduction motors with speed controls? Are you supposed to throw them away? Actually I have less in one of these gear reduction motors with speed control than what the cylinder, 4 way/2 position valve and the timed relay costs. Used gear reduction motors and used speed controls that is not new units.

253646

My speed control will allow a 1.5 RPM to 42 RPM setting. Theoretical no load speed would be 2520 an hr down to 90 an hr.

I'm going to do Dan's setup with some parts that I have and some new parts. Then I will need to beg/borrow/ or steal some lathe time in order to make the flat faced pulley I need for the motor and something for the Star sizer. Unless of course someone here has a flat faced pulley with a 1/2" shaft they want to sell.

By watching the progress of the automation curve it is easy to see that there are numerous ways to accomplish the same thing and that is the beauty of engineering a project. A project dreamed and after hours of conception it is fully realized others see what has been accomplished and add their particular twist on it. None of the projects are wrong we just end up will different ways to accomplish the same thing.

Also... the speed controller has a torque control adjustment which should eliminate breakage.

[djryan13]

Went ahead and ordered his parts list. He is going to get me quote for his add ons tomorrow. Seems like a good guy.

[Tazza]

This is my version of an automatic sizer, the collator is built from parts i had, the only parts that i had to buy were the universal joints, the geared motor for the collator, PWM speed control. The rest i had or was scrounged from mad mates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nKT6dPDxho

[6bg6ga]

Went ahead and ordered his parts list. He is going to get me quote for his add ons tomorrow. Seems like a good guy.

Might be nice to post that here also.

[6bg6ga]

This is my version of an automatic sizer, the collator is built from parts i had, the only parts that i had to buy were the universal joints, the geared motor for the collator, PWM speed control. The rest i had or was scrounged from mad mates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nKT6dPDxho

Nice job

Wish I could find a flat face pulley like you have on your gear reduction motor. Very fine job with the home made feeder and collator. You guys down under do fine work.

[dverna]

This is my version of an automatic sizer, the collator is built from parts i had, the only parts that i had to buy were the universal joints, the geared motor for the collator, PWM speed control. The rest i had or was scrounged from mad mates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nKT6dPDxho

Nice!! Thanks for posting. Do you have a slip clutch or shear pin on the drive assembly that does the sizing action?

[djryan13]

Might be nice to post that here also.

Waiting on Dan’s quote but for reference the Grainger stuff is ~$352 plus shipping and tax. Or pick up at store which is super inconvenient for me so I went with shipping. They already shipped package.

[6bg6ga]

Waiting on Dan’s quote but for reference the Grainger stuff is ~$352 plus shipping and tax. Or pick up at store which is super inconvenient for me so I went with shipping. They already shipped package.

I have some stuff here in the garage so it won't be quite so bad for me at about $150

[Tazza]

Nice job

Wish I could find a flat face pulley like you have on your gear reduction motor. Very fine job with the home made feeder and collator. You guys down under do fine work.

That flat face pulley is just a pulley that i have drilled and tapped... It was mounted to the reduction motor, so figured, i might as well use it :) To strengthen it up a little as this us where the pivot point was, i did weld it up to give it a little more strength. One day i may make a solid one... ONE day :)

Dverna - I have not used any clutches, it's a 1/8 hop motor i think, it will simply stall before it tears its self apart. The only weak point it has is the slider for moving the projectile to the sizing die. It has play which means each stroke can be slightly short or long causing jamb ups. When it does, as i have the cam too high, it tries to pull the slider off the rails. It has broken one already, i plan on lowering it so the oull is more straight instead of straight at one point, then at about 45 degrees high at another. When it jambs up in this position, you see the slider plate torque up and it will eventually break again. I have broken 2 universal joints, but they are cheap and excellent quality out of the UK. They give essentially no plat, the chinese ones were horrid

[jmorris]

gear motors in the US are very expensive.
Pneumatics are cheap.

I really wish someone would figure out a kit for the gear motor for the Magma.

If you buy them new, they are for sure. Used they can be had pretty cheap. I have won some really bigs ones for not much more than the shipping alone would have cost on eBay.

Power window motors from wrecked automobiles are another cheap or free source if you know anyone in the business.

Making a product requires choosing a “standard” and I agree new price on some gear motors is more than a compressor, regulator, air lines and pneumatics cost, in some cases.

[Tazza]

Power window motors, that is a very good idea. Small yet geared quite low for good power.

I have seen videos of people that use automotive wiper motors for wet tumblers, running for a long time, surely they would over heat, but being so cheap, who really cares?

[6bg6ga]

As jmorris pointed out also buying the gear motors new is expensive but buying used has its rewards. I probably have less than $100 in the three bodine gear reduction motors and speed controls. I bought one motor non-working bought a bearing puller and purchased new shaft bearings. I learned along the way that the bearing numbers can get you at the right bearing however there is a standard grade and a precision grade for these particular bearings. The OD on the standard bearings varies but the OD on the precision bearings is spot on. I learned I could get inventive re-installing the bearings because I don't have a press to do so. I remembered to cool the armature so the bearings went on easier.

Anything can be done if we have the right mindset to do it. This video has once again served to light the fire under this project for me. I have started both projects simultaneously. I spent a good deal of time trying to find a 1/2" set screw hub and came up with a 12mm set screw hub which I can drill out and finish bore to arrive at the 1/2" ID I need for my flat faced pulley. If its to small diameter I will simply bolt a piece of aluminum to it drill another hole and made the connecting rod the correct length.

Nothing against Mr Hatch here as I'm sure his toy money is made manufacturing automation equipment along with the needed control to run it and my hat is off to him. By the pictures he does a very good job with 15 or 20 years experience doing control I am told. There is no reason at least in my opinion to throw cold water on other ways of accomplishing the same thing. People just want to complete their dreams their goals with whatever they happen to have at home or the budget they have set for the project. Myself I am retired now and I can no longer afford some of the luxuries I did before which means as much as I would love to purchase a pre- made working system to put on my Star and Magma sizers its simply out of reach unless of course I win the lottery and I don't play it.

Mr Morris is a gifted gentleman and his work shows the simplicity of detail of what others would have turned into a complex mess. Here we are halfway between Mr. Hatch who offers a complete turn key operating system and Mr. Morris who is far more gifted than any of us could ever hope to be. So, somewhere stuck in the middle with a dream and a limited budget we are thus the reason for posting this video to inspire others that something can be made and made workable if we simply take another look or possibly a look after that.

Lets continue to carry on.:smile:

[6bg6ga]

Looking at the parts sheet again I wonder if he used the original handle and bent it or purchased some rod and bent that.

[djryan13]

My parts arrive tomorrow from Dan.

My Grainger parts are already here. I am still waiting on Magma though...

[6bg6ga]

My parts arrive tomorrow from Dan.

My Grainger parts are already here. I am still waiting on Magma though...

Good to hear it. Magma has always been fast for me even when I lived in Iowa. Now its a simple matter of driving to them to get what I need.

[djryan13]

Quick update... I got my parts from Dan last week and he has contacted me a couple times to help me put together. Unfortunately, the Star sizer hasn’t arrived yet (some parts on backorder). I expect it to ship later this week. Maybe get it working next week...

[Tazza]

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out when the sizer finally gets to you :)

[djryan13]

Quick update:

Had two delays.
1. Dan’s Grainger list was incorrect. He had one of the items as quantity (1) when it should have been 5. Got the other 4 today. He will update list on YouTube

2. There is a nut tack welded to a press part (forget name). The adjustment bolt that actuates the bullet feeder is threaded into that nut. Weld was bad and it fell off (while running manually as I didn’t have parts yet). I am now waiting on a replacement. Friend at work is going to weld it back (when he has time)....

But the automation system seems to be working great. I used a cheap Plano ammo can as a container for all the small parts.

I will post video soon assuming I can make proper adjustments to make it reliable.

[Tazza]

Sounds awesome, looking forward to seeing the video.

Shame the weld broke, but sadly it happens from time to time. At least it's something simple

[6bg6ga]

Quick update:

Had two delays.
1. Dan’s Grainger list was incorrect. He had one of the items as quantity (1) when it should have been 5. Got the other 4 today. He will update list on YouTube

2. There is a nut tack welded to a press part (forget name). The adjustment bolt that actuates the bullet feeder is threaded into that nut. Weld was bad and it fell off (while running manually as I didn’t have parts yet). I am now waiting on a replacement. Friend at work is going to weld it back (when he has time)....

But the automation system seems to be working great. I used a cheap Plano ammo can as a container for all the small parts.

I will post video soon assuming I can make proper adjustments to make it reliable.

#2 is that the custom bolt he made? The one that he ground the flats off the bolt to make it round?

Unless I missed it what did he use for the handle?

Also looking forward to the video along with an idea of how much your air compressor has to run to feed the air cylinder.

[djryan13]

Yes, he makes a custom bolt but it’s the nut that broke and I hadn’t installed the bolt yet as I was running manually.

My tiny air compressor does have to run a bit. I do need to play with adjustments a bit once it’s setup.

Yes, part of his kit includes a new handle so no permanent modification to press.



#2 is that the custom bolt he made? The one that he ground the flats off the bolt to make it round?

Unless I missed it what did he use for the handle?

Also looking forward to the video along with an idea of how much your air compressor has to run to feed the air cylinder.

[6bg6ga]

Just out of idle curiosity how large is your compressor?

[djryan13]

Just out of idle curiosity how large is your compressor?

Maybe 6 gallon?

[djryan13]

So... I got it working on Saturday... then bent the lever arm that Dan sells. He sent me a new one. It’s designed to be the weakest part so you don’t break a part on press.

I continued to run manually and also bent the manual handle... I ordered a new manual lever from Lathesmith.

I got Dan’s replacement today. I also determined that the piece is just a 3/8” course thread 6” long L shaped anchor (used for concrete). It appears to be cut down about 1/2” or so. I picked extras up at a bolt store (big box don’t typically sell these). You have to cut the threaded end so be ready with a die to fix threads.

So, what am I doing to prevent?

Dan recommends not sizing >.002 down. Not always possible as the sizing die get expensive.

I started using the bullet lube HiTek sells (which is **** IMO). That didn’t work at all. in fairness, I am sizing coated not HiTek. I will be sizing HiTek next.

I am going to try Dillon style case lube next. Tried a dab of lanolin swirled around in the bullet box and that seemed good. Dillon lube will be easier.

I am also ditching the electric timer system for now as I get more accustomed to this. Problem I see with Dan’s design is he uses a 2 position solenoid (basically all in or out). So, if you get a bullet off center, something is going to give. The off switch just leaves the pressure in either position (your choice really).

Instead, I went and bought this manual solenoid and it works well. You can pause half way down, back up a little, etc.

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/pneumatic_components/manual_air_valves/general_purpose_foot_-a-_manual_valves/avs-528c1-hl

You can find cheaper ones but this one works very well.

Just my initial thoughts. Will post videos this weekend.

[Tazza]

What if you lower the pressure to the cylinder? ideally, things should not bend if something is to jam up. My electric one will just stall the motor if something hangs up, there are parts that need to be made stronger, but that's a job for another day :)

[6bg6ga]

I thought I would wade in on this. I would assume most molds will throw a bullet probably no more than .002 over the finished size. I have mine picked to do this. I don't now nor will I ever use any type of bullet lube simply because in my opinion it isn't needed. Been using a Star and Magma for years with lathesmith custom sizing dies made to my specifications. No extra holes to plug. The bullets still size exactly as they did when the sizing dies were new. Now, the purpose as I see it for automation of the bullet sizer lubricator is to do the work your shoulders and arms cannot tolerate anymore. I haven't done my automation on either my bullet sizer lubricators or bullet caster yet. I finally got the sprockets and chain for the bullet caster the other day and the wife has me painting the interior of the house. Insert I am not a painter by trade here.

Now, if and I repeat the word if the bullets you are casting are too oversized then you have two options. One .... purchase a mold closer to the finished size your wanting. Two purchase a second sizing die and split the difference in the OAL so the machine doesn't break and sizing is easier with no hangups. If it were me and the bullet mold was producing good bullets I would leave that aspect of the operation alone and concentrate on simply purchasing another sizing die slightly larger so the bullet is partially sized. Partially sizing a bullet will take the excess stress off the machine and it really doesn't add that much time to the operation. Now, lets consider that you have purchased another sizing die and have it in the machine. At this point in time you have an option and that is do you want to lube on this operation? If it were me the answer simply for simplicity would be a no and I would pull off the arm that works the pump... two cotter keys if memory is correct. This allows partial sizing with no mess or fuss. You now easily size the bullets to this larger die and they have no lube on them and no potential mess to deal with. So your finished lets say with this batch the first go around. Simply push the sizing die out and insert the slightly smaller one and re-install the lube arm and size and lube again. The result will me like running a knife thru butter with no breakage of the sizing machine and or parts of the machine.

Now, if you wish to complicate things a bit at this point here is something to consider. Your first sizing operation without lube necessitates either hand picking the bullets out of a collection container or the manufacture of a bullet collection tube setup. This would consist of a collection tube with a cotter key/pin near the bottom to contain the once sized bullets nullifying the need to hand pick the bullets and re-insert them in the bullet dropping tube thus making your setup even better yet.

Take this one step farther along with the adaptation of your bullet collections tube being used in conjunction with some type of bullet dropper assembly on you reloading press and the addition of another cotter pin hole so that the bullets that are nose down in the tubes can be rotated 180 degrees and used to fill the bullet dropper tube.

[djryan13]

Thanks for all the input. My molds do seem to cast big. I am hoping the Magma molds cast closer to sizer.

I should note that I don’t think the bend is happening all at once from something being stuck. I think it’s mostly a gradual thing. I did adjust pressure down.

Not sure I see a problem with using a little lube. Lot’s of folks are using it.

[6bg6ga]

Thanks for all the input. My molds do seem to cast big. I am hoping the Magma molds cast closer to sizer.

I should note that I don’t think the bend is happening all at once from something being stuck. I think it’s mostly a gradual thing. I did adjust pressure down.

Not sure I see a problem with using a little lube. Lot’s of folks are using it.

There are videos showing people lubing approximately every 10th bullet and most use wear of the die as a reason and I have been told by some here on the forum that not lubing was going to cause my sizing die to enlarge and eventually wear out / get too large to use. My answer horse hockey as lead is far more soft than steel. A little lube certainly isn't going to hurt anything but like I mentioned is it really necessary and what are the real benefits? Does it really make sizing any better/easier? Surely re-inserting a sized lubed bullet is probably going to alter the size once it has been processed again.

As for the molds.. I've had problems with magma molds being too small. my thoughts again are simply purchase another sizing die slightly larger than what your using now simply because its probably going to be cheaper than purchasing new dies unless you use the cheap brand that I'm not going to mention. The cost of a good Magma die is roughly $100 and the cost of a new sizing die from lathesmith I would assume to be slighly more than 1/2 that amount give or take a little.

Getting back to your problem.... Its sounding to me like there is excessive force being used as well as a lack of a travel stop on the air cylinder. Would have to see it up close to judge. Did do a fair amount of pneumatic work years ago.

I will point out that years ago I sized a bunch of oversized .454 bullets in my Magma sizer and there was force needed to do it. The machine didn't bust so I would look toward a steel rod with slightly more strength than that of what your using.

[djryan13]

Thanks again for the thorough comments and tips.

I do encourage you to try lubing a couple bullets as it makes a huge difference. I have actually done this for a while using Lee Sizers.

As I said, HiTek sells one which didn’t really do much IMO.

[djryan13]

I was hoping to make a video with the automated bullet feeder using my HiTek coated 40cal bullets but unfortunately, I couldn’t get the Star Feeder to drop them. They sold me a 9mm and 45 cal feeder and said it would work for 90% of calibers. Obviously 40 isn’t one of them. Anyone get it working?

Instead, I used my joystick and manually inserted a bunch. Sizes them fine. I am almost just as happy feeding them manually like that. Sure, you can’t walk away from it, but it’s soothing.

I will call Magma tomorrow and ask about 40...

[Tazza]

For far too long i manually filled my feed tube before i got my collator done. Once it was made i wish i did it sooner.

Is your issue with the collator or the actual feeder part? i'd have thought the .45 one would work with .40 giving you some clearance.

[djryan13]

For far too long i manually filled my feed tube before i got my collator done. Once it was made i wish i did it sooner.

Is your issue with the collator or the actual feeder part? i'd have thought the .45 one would work with .40 giving you some clearance.

The problem is the sliding bar doesn’t slide forward enough to drop the bullet in the hole.

[Tazza]

oh.... I assume there are no linkages to adjust to give that bit of extra travel? it took me a bit of fiddling to get mine right, yet it was built from scratch, so it was all guess work :(

[djryan13]

No, the slider is maxed out (the little pin in the rear of slider is nearly hitting the housing).


oh.... I assume there are no linkages to adjust to give that bit of extra travel? it took me a bit of fiddling to get mine right, yet it was built from scratch, so it was all guess work :(

[Tazza]

I'm sure it's something simple, Magma will get you sorted out.

[6bg6ga]

The problem is the sliding bar doesn’t slide forward enough to drop the bullet in the hole.

If the sliding bar isn't moving far enough then the travel is off. The air cylinder isn't retracting the modified arm enough to fully move another bullet in the slide to drop the bullet into the die. In other words your Magma/Star arm is going toward 12:00 to feed and drop a bullet. Yours is going to about 11:00 or abouts. It gets so close but runs out of travel. Modification or adjustment will be needed.

[6bg6ga]

No, the slider is maxed out (the little pin in the rear of slider is nearly hitting the housing).

Ok, didn't read far enough back and didn't see this. Looked at mine. My pin hits the housing on every cycle. If your not able to get the bullet to drop and your not aligned up with the die then there are two possibilities. One the slider bar was machined wrong or two the housing is longer than it needs to be. Needs the end opposite the die machined to make it shorter. First I would adjust the bolt height that determines the slide maximum movement so that the roll pin does contact the end of the housing and see if bullets drop into the die. If the bullet is cocked in the 45 cal slide then look around for some tubing that you can put inside the slide hole to make the inner diameter smaller thus allowing the bullet to be in the slide in a straighter position.

[djryan13]

Here is the deal with the 40 cal. Using the 45 cal feeder slider requires the bullet to get some momentum to basically jump into the die hole. If the slider is moving slowly, it won’t work. Magma is making me a 40 cal specific slider which is used mostly for wadcutters.

[Tazza]

Glad they got you sorted out or at least have a solution worked out.

It seems odd that their design requires momentum to get it in the right place, but i'm sure they have their reasons.

[djryan13]

Got the Magma 40 cal conversion really quick. Went ahead and slapped it together tonight and made this video... I am not as smooth as Dan and maybe not as photogenic so all you see are my hands.


https://youtu.be/TI15Pwl5WPQ

I also made a slightly shorter video demonstrating the “joy stick”...


https://youtu.be/L57Nd14sWSo

[Tazza]

Nice job there, thanks for the videos.

The only thing i don't like with that style sizer, is the potential for an unsized projectile missing and falling into the sized tray. I use a tube and old powder bottle for mine to drop into. They get pushed through the sizing die and down the tube into the bottle, each one that goes into the bottle is sized, no way one can get there without going through the die first.

[djryan13]

Good idea on the bottle. I can see that you could fat finger one and drop it in the tray. Not really possible with the automated feeder system. Anything that fell in likely got crushed. Bah!

[Tazza]

Good idea on the bottle. I can see that you could fat finger one and drop it in the tray. Not really possible with the automated feeder system. Anything that fell in likely got crushed. Bah!

Actually, the collator is the possible cause of "fat fingers", i have had a projectile escape my home made collator that has fallen on the slider to the sizing die. Even had one once that managed to fall into the die side on and stop the operation, one of those times i should have bought a lottery ticket, ill never happen again :)

[djryan13]

Dan emailed asking me to try his improved system. He wanted to make sure I was happy with the system. In general, I have been happy and if I could get more casting time in, I would be using it more...

So, I went ahead and made another video (bloopers and all - I don’t know how to edit). His new lever arm system is a lot more robust. I didn’t have anything “normal” to test it on so I went to the max (only coated bullet I had to size sitting around)... I am sizing a big boy 458 socom bullet (no lube groove). It is a tough bullet to do by hand - you will bend the stock lever unless you size in multiple steps. It’s casting at .461-.462. Sizing to 459. Anyway, take a look. I think the new system works pretty well.

BTW.. I don’t know Dan at all. He isn’t paying me to test but I am happy to help.


https://youtu.be/YAZm4fjfC54

[JeffinTD]

Any chance the Lee APP press could be automated like that? Hoping it works well for sizing bullets. Unfortunately, I am not sure it would be reliable enough and feed correctly.

Hopefully not drifting the thread too bad, but here is my setup on a Lee.


https://youtu.be/G9TmulkR8ag

I intend to have the same setup also operate my Star, but I have several things I want to change.

First, I used a 40x250 cheap Amazon cylinder. This is too big of a bore IMHO, and achieves more force than needed at pretty low pressure. A smaller bore, with end of stroke cushioning will allow faster cycling without slamming (less reciprocal mass, plus deceleration near end of stroke) and should be easier to find the sweet spot of enough thrust to operate without so much power it will bend things in the event of a jamb.

Timer control- works OK, but with no feedback it turns a jamb into a multi-car pile up. Mounting proximity switches on the cylinder will be better. When commanded to extend, for example, if it doesn’t reach end of stroke to trip the limit switch it won’t reverse and continue.

I will also use a 5 way 3 position solenoid, open in the center position. That way when power is cut, the cylinder will be stoped (instead of retracting), and there won’t be residual pressure and the cylinder could be moved by hand.

I used 12vdc power supply, but if I did it again I’d opt for 24vdc. Reduces the risk of using line voltage, but 24v valves seem more cheaply available.

For the Star, I might want a timer between the extend limit switch and control relays, as letting the sizer dwell for a split second while pushing on the handle seems to help lube fully fill large bullets with multiple grooves.

The thing I did right was making the lever adjustable so I could ensure the cylinder hits its stops both directions, instead of slamming the press into its mechanical limits.

Sorry about the long post. Hopefully this makes sense.

[jmorris]

Depriming cases doesn’t require as much force as sizing bullets. Not knocking your fine work there with the air and electronics but I used a pretty small gear motor on my machine and it’s got plenty of power for the job, without unnecessary complication.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzPBLrtajCc

[JeffinTD]

Wow, nice work! Do you use any sort of clutch, or is the motor small enough to stall in the event of a jamb?

Force wise, a 32mm cylinder should be able to hit 90+ pounds of thrust at reasonable air pressure. My Star (at least with the alloy and amount sized I use) shouldn’t require anything close to that, even with the shorter moment arm I’ll use. I really hope to be able to dial in just enough force to run it, plus a little margin, so if something does jamb nothing gets broken.

[jmorris]

Wow, nice work! Do you use any sort of clutch, or is the motor small enough to stall in the event of a jamb?


No, I didn’t and I wouldn’t count on the motor stalling, it’s a tiny gear motor but they are still fairly powerful.

That aluminum block is tapped 1/8” NPT so I could use a Lee pistol/universal decapping pin and their collet, so if an obstruction is met, the pin just slides up vs mangling something.

Might see it better in this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJgU3-OXuUU

[JeffinTD]

That is super slick. The main malfunctions I have with mine are generally primer drawback, causing a case to not push out of the shell plate, or a case bobbling entering the shell plate. Both result in the next case being dropped along side the shell plate causing collision with the body of the die.

I’ve bought one of the Lee decap kits, that uses a flat faced base instead of the shell plate, and kind of fingers drop into the twist lock bore that seem to do a good job of aligning a slightly misdropped case. Haven’t had it long enough to say for sure, but it seems to run much better.

I also replaced the bottom rail piece that was quite worn and let the shuttle assembly tip to the side.

[jmorris]

Put a slight angle on the very tip, if the primer isn’t square with the pocket, it’s harder for it to get drawn back in.