Subforum proposal: Cast Hollowpoints

[curioushooter]

There's a sub forum for swagers and paper patchers and gas check makers. Why not a subforum for cast hollowpoints?

[Dusty Bannister]

Perhaps you could scan through this thread and see what it takes to get what you want.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257298-Developing-an-AR-MSR-subforum-within-the-Factory-Rifle-forum

Then you can decide if you want to expend the effort to prove it worthy of the time and work to show that it will be of benefit, or not. It is a long thread but informative.

[waksupi]

It takes a lot of posts on a particular subject before staff will even consider expanding their work load. No pay, so no incentive really.

[curioushooter]

That thread is long and the result seems to be that no AR forum was established (thread stopped in 2014 and I don't see any AR forum presently).

Frankly it sounds like a bad idea anyway. There are plenty of AR-specific forums on the internet, and those people can stay in their zoos.

Casting HP's on the other hand is a logical extension of bullet casting and fills a niche like the sub forums on gas checks, swaging, powder coating, alloys, paper patching, etc... I certainly think it is more worthy of a specific subforum than many of these topics. How much more can really be said about gas checks?

Cast HPs are a fertile area for exploration (that is really still in its infancy), much like powder coating. I've been PMing other hollowpoint casters on this forum recently and have learned more in days than I learned in years from sifting through the general forum.

Cast HPs are also probably not going to attract the sort of crowd that an AR forum would (I am certain it would require 24 hour moderation).

[MT Gianni]

Probably make a thread and ask for a sticky.

[dverna]

Moderators will not want the extra work so I like MT G's suggestion of a sticky.

[mdi]

Personally, I don't think there would be enough interest in casting hollow points as there isn't a huge difference than regular cast bullets. More work for moderators? I thought being a moderator was a voluntary job, and if t hollow point sub-forum were established, several members would step forward to help out as a moderator. I remember the effort and time it took to get a "Coatings and Alternatives" sub forum. I agree a stickie would generate sufficient interest...

[Larry Gibson]

Probably won't get done but I also would prefer a separate HP cast bullet subforum. As we see already in this thread a subforum might do away with most of the negative comments as if they don't care for HP cast bullets no need to go there or comment.

Over the years I've been on this forum there has been a lot of discussions regarding HP cast bullets, their making, their testing and their terminal effectiveness...….probably as much as we see with PPing and PCing of cast bullets. As I've little interest in either, other than testing, I seldom view those subforums and only have made comment, occasionally, based on the results of my testing of such. Hopefully a subforum on HP cast bullets would result in those not interested in such to not view and not comment.

[onelight]

I hope I did not come across as one negative about hollow points cause I am not . The work by members here on developing cast hollow points is interesting and informative some just have different opinions on what we think is best. No different than discussion on reloading equipment or the guns we choose to CC or hunt with . Or what shots we are willing to take , or pass up on game. I am not foolish enough to think my way is the only way.
There have been several great testing threads lately on cast HP boolits .
Keep up the good work.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

There's a sub forum for swagers and paper patchers and gas check makers. Why not a subforum for cast hollowpoints?
I don't think it would get enough traffic to warrant making another subforum.

In the last ten years, I recall a half dozen or so good threads on casting hollowpoints. Maybe there is more? and I just over looked them? Now, I have owned 8 to 10 HP molds and cast with them and posted photos and such, but in the end, I never really found a worthwhile application in my shooting needs to justify the extra effort/difficulty in casting HP boolits. So that's another reason why I am not on board.

If I were to try and convince the Staff here, about adding a subforum, I'd create a post (new thread) of links, that could be stickied, to organize all the good posts/threads about casting hollow points, much like this one about lead pots.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?50147-this-old-pot
If there were, say a hundred or so links, it'd seem to be a "shoe-in" for creating a new sub-forum. That would also prove to be valuable info, for transferring those threads to a newly created forum, afterwhich, may create more traffic...that's my 2¢.

The most recent subforum that I recall being created is "Get-Togethers, Competition and Results"
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?21-Get-Togethers-Competition-and-Results
It was originally suggested that we create a "Competitions/Results" sub-forum. To be honest, I wasn't on board with it, I figured there wouldn't be much traffic. Staff discussed it and we made a decision to merge a sub-sub-forum buried in OUR TOWN that was just "Get Togethers", so we created a combined new subforum, moved it out of OUR TOWN and down to GUNS AND SHOOTING, in hopes that it would get enough traffic. As you can see, it doesn't get much traffic.

Good Luck,
Jon

[Bigslug]

I think it's worth doing - might want to throw hollow bases in the title as well.

There is significantly more voodoo involved once you start putting pins in the mold, and yeah, a lot of folks don't want to be bothered with it, don't think it's necessary, or will recommend steering in another direction. A playground where the hard science can be conducted free of all that might be useful. . .and has already been said, we've got a dedicated gas check forum.

[NorthMoccasin]

+1 on a sub-forum on hollow points. I have done a fair amount of experimentation with them myself and posted some of my results here. It seems most of the HP posts in the other forums get clogged up with anti HP posts.

[KVO]

+1 HP Subforum...

[BNE]

I would be interested. I have 2 HP molds now. Have played with the results, but would love to get experience from those of you who have really experimented with them.

What alloy is best?
What speed is best?
How does it really affect accuracy?
Do you gas check them?

What size hole matters?

Hunting applications?

Do you fill the hollow point with silicone?

I’m sure there are other topics, but those are my current questions!

BNE.

[SSGOldfart]

Humm I'm interested in HP's myself,about 30% to 50% of my cast boolit shooting are hp's.I Just like them,so I shoot more of them then I need to.

[Forrest r]

It would be interesting to see a hp/hb subform. Not only for casting, there's a lot of clever people on this website. I really like the thread with the home made hp jigs.

If it happens great, if not that's fine to.

Been thinning the herd lately, down to 13 or 14 hb molds and 18/19 hp molds.

[Greg S]

I would be happy with a sub-forum or sub-sub-forum for a place to consolidate all alloy and terminal perfornace testing and results related to HP casting.

As a predominant custom mold user after bad experiances with with a few mainstream manufacturers, I think there is more involved with HP molds. Sure, I would say all casters are into internal and external ballistics and some terminal performance but custom HP mold casters spend the extra coin for the terminal performance option.

I think there is alot to be explored/shared in the alloys used/velocities than actual casting as we all are used to tinkering with mold temp, cadence and alloy temp to achieve a top notch projectiles that are consistant.

[Green Frog]

Not to be too contrarian here, but the list of topics that has been made into their own forums here is already too long and unwieldy... people post all sorts of unrelated stuff on sub-fora that exist rather than looking for the “proper” one to post on. A favorite of mine is the one for Hand Tools (310s, Lee Loaders, etc) but not too long ago somebody posted a new thread about a large size tumbler made, IIRC, out of a cement mixer. Kinda makes you wonder whether the Forum Titles mean anything anyway.

As for stickies, that might work, but some of the busy topic fora have so many stickies they lose their impact. I personally scroll through the stickies pretty quickly to get to the new stuff, since one man’s sticky is another man’s SPAM.

I don’t know the answer here because this site is so loosely defined... virtually anything except a jacketed bullet is welcome here, and this is both a strength and a weakness of the site. I honestly feel adding more sub-fora would just make it more unwieldy unless the long suffering moderators combine and pare down some of the existing fora that are too redundant and/or receive too little traffic. JMHO, YMMV!

Froggie

[Dusty Bannister]

I suppose some folks just do not use the search feature, or perhaps find too much information and do not want to check the threads for information relevant to their need.
"hollow point bullets" gave me 26,700 hits. I would expect many to be duplicates as different posts in the same thread, but a quick look at the threads displayed on only the first page had quite a variety of information. Thread drift can also distract one from the initial search, but be quite informative as well. A sub forum might make it a little quicker, but would it actually make it better? I am sure the moderators will decide whatever is in the best interest of the Forum.

[OS OK]

I think it'd be a good idea especially if it were coupled with pictures of the cast HP's as they come through the shop and get fresh cast with the particular mould involved (including 'hints and tips' on handling these moulds), as they get their lube job whether it be lube-sized or PC'd or tumble lubed and then pics too of their performance @ different speeds & bhn & lead composition in blending and the testing media they were tested in.

This would be a 'One Stop' place to discuss the entire procedure from casting to shooting & testing.

If there are too many different forums I'd suggest dropping one or several that don't get much or any traffic to make room for a HP's section of it's own.
I've done several posts on HP's in the past and ask for other members to post their work too...these posts went very well and were more informative than doing a search and weeding through all the non pertinent commentary.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

I've done several posts on HP's in the past and ask for other members to post their work too...these posts went very well and were more informative than doing a search and weeding through all the non pertinent commentary.
I've always liked your posts on HP boolits and the testing you did, excellent posts.

[OS OK]

I've always liked your posts on HP boolits and the testing you did, excellent posts.

Thank you Sir...those are very kind words.

Back in those days I was learning all the nuances in casting HP's and blending boolit-metals along with discovering the 'operational window' every cast HP possesses ... if it hadn't been for all the generous & sharing members that suggested 'this and that' and posted examples of their work...well...it would have taken years for me to achieve the level of competence I have today.
As most of us know...cast HP's are a different breed of animal.

There is a special place in my memory of those old posts and how important they were to me in my learning process...that's why I am enthusiastic to see this new section come to fruition and success.

charlie

[Drew P]

I’d vote no on a sub forum, yes on a sticky

[beagle]

Yes on a sub forum. Heck of a lot more interest in making HPs than paper patched, IMO./beagle

[megasupermagnum]

Absolutely. There is far more interest in hollow point than paper patch. Unfortunately it seems every HP thread gets dragged down for various reasons. A sub forum would hopefully remedy this. A sticky would just make a 30 page, poorly written book that takes weeks to read. Sticky's are best for smaller threads with a great need-to-know, informative start.

[Lowbudget12]

As a new caster I started with the devastator. I had a ton of question and problems that the great people here have helped me work through. A sub-forum would have put a lot of information in one place.

[USSR]

A picture is worth a thousand words, go HP Subforum!

Don

253640

[kimoleto]

Yes on the idea of a HP subforum

[rintinglen]

I hold with those who vote sub forum. I totally concur that there are more HP casters than PP wrappers.

[curioushooter]

I suppose some folks just do not use the search feature, or perhaps find too much information and do not want to check the threads for information relevant to their need.

No offense to anybody, but the "search feature" of this website is about two decades behind the state of the art. I have more success finding what I want in the general forum by keyword searching in Bing or Google and hoping it will sift through Castboolits.com than I have had using the feature on this website.

Also, I would volunteer as a moderator, and probably others would too, so that "problem" seems to be a non-problem.

There is not only a lot of "voodoo" with actually casting HPs there is a great unknown when it comes to cavity shape, size, alloy composition. Many of these matters differ with HPs than with solids. Casting solids is not hard. Casting HPs is much more difficult, and I think this is the reason why some have given up and convinced themselves that HPs are not worth the trouble (despite the evident advantages).

Several website sponsors produce HP molds (NOE, MP) and many members of the CastBoolits purchase them.

I suspect that HP molds have greater profit margins, and I am confident that these sponsors would appreciate the greater attention given to their offerings. It may also reduce the amount of questions getting sent their way as folks would be able to figure it out more rapidly using a specific subforum with a few well written stickies to get people started. Glen Fryxel's chapter on Cast HPs is a solid primer, (where I think most people start with Cast HPs) but obviously much more information could be fleshed out.

[Conditor22]

https://i.imgur.com/wJfoY4X.jpg

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

an old photo from my collection
253771

[Gamsek]

So we are already attaching photos? LOL
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191228/71360bb07e9d4f4c59c752d72c774b4c.jpg

We could dedicate one thread exclusively to HP lead bullets, casting, moulds, expansion with some basic details as mould, alloys, expansion, velocity, test media, also targets and maybe even hunting with HP with all basic info about bullet etc....
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191228/ab09e6997549b7b80f226753eaf9a33a.jpg

[OS OK]

I think when a caster can deliberately and for the first time...go to his pot and blend up the right combination of metals, then cast his HP's and have them work...expand fully at the applied speed at the distance he figures for his hunting or for a self defense round...then have the HP retain it's weight through the testing, well...you just met a caster that has learned a lot more than the next fella that dumps his wheel weights in the pot and has at it his whole life casting solids.
Cast HP's are a different animal & you are in complete control of the results, unlike buying them and stuffing them in your brass and then having to conform to the power and speed they require to work well.
There is a world of difference and the learning curve can be to the point where many just give up in frustration with a trail of fragmented HP's behind him and a good HP mould up on the shelf gathering rust-n-dust.

One trick to this sub-forums' success will be keeping all the FBI experts and nay sayers out of the topic...like the picture thread, no picture and no contribution, no posting! These posters that want to deliberate the statistics and tell you how you need to do it ruin it every time.

I know this to be true first hand...I've been plagued by these expert types many times and so bad once that I gave up in frustration and locked my own thread and quit all together.

[fcvan]

This started out about HP boolits, then it went to PC HP Boolit porn.

JohnB, I always made my PBGCs inside out, not because I don't like random colors or ingredients sticking outward. Once loaded no one sees them anyway. However, the inside of the cans are coated to inhibit oxidization due to exposure to carbonation and such. Aluminum Oxide makes great sandpaper. Anyway, that is my excuse.

I did make some PCd 'zombie green' and PBGCd with Mountain Dew green showing so I could pass them around. They were also HP boolits and I inserted some zombie green ASBBs into the Hollow Points.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Popcan GCs...The outside is coated too ;-)

:cbpour:

[curioushooter]

I think when a caster can deliberately and for the first time...go to his pot and blend up the right combination of metals, then cast his HP's and have them work...expand fully at the applied speed at the distance he figures for his hunting or for a self defense round...then have the HP retain it's weight through the testing, well...you just met a caster that has learned a lot more than the next fella that dumps his wheel weights in the pot and has at it his whole life casting solids.

Look here (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?389702-More-357-Magnum-Gel-Testing-J-words-vs-Cast)

This is very true. I've been casting for a decade and learned more since I started casting HPs (last 6 months). And I still cast solids, as they work better in most situations (in rifles, if you want to minimize meat damage, pinking). My solids are better than they've ever been from what I have learned by casting finicky HPs.

On my side, I attribute this to finally buying a thermometer to monitor melt temp and using carefully weighed alloys of good clean metal. The other part is the superior mold quality of MP's molds.

The actual skill of casting is pretty rudimentary (it can be automated in fact, look at a magma)...putting the metal in the hole is not very hard. It's getting everything else right, which is more knowledge and observation. A superthread isn't going to cut it. Those become too long and get bogged down.

A dedicated subforum with several focused, succinct stickied superthreads would be the ticket to my thinking.