25 20

[DDJ]

Has anyone used this bullet in their 25 20 https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=225. I would like to push it at around 1500 fps. The powders I have on hand that might be suitable are Lil Gun, H322 and Trail Boss. I also have Reloader 10 but don't know if that would work. I would like to use the 322 because I have a lot of it. So I'm kind of fishing for load thoughts. Any ideas?

[badgeredd]

I have to wonder if it will stabilize in most 25-20 rifles. My rifle will not shoot anything over 70 grains very well.

Edd

[DDJ]

I have to wonder if it will stabilize in most 25-20 rifles. My rifle will not shoot anything over 70 grains very well.

Edd

I have a box of Remington 86 grn factory loads and they stabilize at 25 yards anyhow. No signs of keyholing at all. That's the first thing I looked for. The rifle is a 1892 Winchester with strong rifling left. The rifle/caliber is new to me. Just finished the 32 20 to 25 20 conversion so I'm getting ready to load. Thanks
Dave

[dale2242]

Check out Hodgdon data.
There should be something there for you.
www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

[DDJ]

Check out Hodgdon data.
There should be something there for you.
www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

I've checked this site and others but it seems that when it comes to cast lead bullets the data is very conservative. I'm assuming that is because of possible leading issues.

[Beerd]

A lot of guys will use jacketed bullet data when loading the same weight cast bullets.
..

[ole_270]

I'm pushing a similar 89 gr bullet NOE 260283 PB to just under 1300 with 9.2 gr H4198. 9.6 gave just over 1400. My old Lyman manual is out in the shop, but think it went to 12 grains with H4198. I used to run the 257420GC 70 gr at 2050 fps with 13 gr H4198. Below max load in that manual.

[DDJ]

Thanks everyone. I'm narrowing down my possible loads and within a few days I'll load up about ten of a couple of loads and try them out.

[richhodg66]

It just so happens, I loaded and shot my first .25-20 ammo today. I got a Savage 23D a couple of weeks ago. Had a set of dies, some old brass in my dad's stuff along with some bullets he cast which were sized and lubed but not checked (seems he plinked with a lot of gas check designs without the checks). Anyway, bullets weigh 89 grains, I loaded 3.4 grains of 700X and away I went. The rifle has a scope I figure is from the '20s, long tube about 3/4" and mounted in a side mount with external adjustments so it took me a little while to figure out, but that load is minute of squirrel at 50 yards now.

I don't have too many more of these bullets left, I need to get out and cast some. I think I'm going to like the .25-20.

[Chill Wills]

It just so happens, I loaded and shot my first .25-20 ammo today. I got a Savage 23D a couple of weeks ago. Had a set of dies, some old brass in my dad's stuff along with some bullets he cast which were sized and lubed but not checked (seems he plinked with a lot of gas check designs without the checks). Anyway, bullets weigh 89 grains, I loaded 3.4 grains of 700X and away I went.
:smile:
The 25-20 WCF has become one of my favorites! I am glad to hear you are enjoying yours!
Does the Savage have a faster twist than the Winchester 1892? I think the Winchester 1892 has a 1 in 14 twist and mine will not support bullets as heavy as the Lyman 257312 at 92grains with GC. 80 grains or less seem to work much better with what ever twist Winchesters have.

DDJ wrote:
"I have a box of Remington 86 grn factory loads and they stabilize at 25 yards anyhow. No signs of keyholing at all. That's the first thing I looked for. The rifle is a 1892 Winchester with strong rifling left."

[richhodg66]

Not sure what the twist is. I should probably check.

I cast some of the bullets from the Rapine mold I got, turned out to weigh 97 grains and right between .260 and .261. Was hoping not to have to size them. I'll mess around with them in the next few days. I hope they stabilize, they're not much heavier or longer than the ones I was shooting today.

[turtlezx]

think the savage is 1 in 16 in the hornet 340

[DDJ]

Thanks again for the replies. All the reading that I have done on the 25 20 and that's about anything and everything I can find 4227 seems to be highly thought of in this caliber so I bought a pound. Loaded 11 rounds of 8 grains of it behind this bullet. Using one round as a barrel warmer. Haven't shot it yet but I'll try to get around to it this week. I'm going to take some factory rounds with me for a comparison. So far this 25 20 project has been a lot of fun

[50target]

IMR 4227 is an excellent powder for it. For a mild and accurate load try 6.5-6.7 grains.
The Missouri Bullets are good. Shot many of them in 25-20 and 32-20.
Bob

[John Boy]

Missouri 25-20, 85gr bullets -- same as the Ideal 25720
253555

253556
25720. This is the regular old standard .25-20 Stevens series. Any of these weights are correct for the .25-20 Stevens and Winchester single shot, .25-20 Marlin and Winchester repeating rifles, .25-25 and .25-21 Stevens Straight. They may be seated in any chamber that is correct for any of the above cartridges. The light weights are also fine for short range. Being short pointed they make well balanced short range bullets for any of the heavier .25 caliber rifles. 77 and 86 grain bullets were regular list. (PB, FN, 46, 56, 67, 77, 86, 96 Also Perfection – TP is 420)

25-20, 86 gr loading data ... http://stevespages.com/257_3_86.html

Load up the Missouri Bullets but you need to buy a different powder or use the Trail Boss per Hodgdon loading instructions

[DDJ]

Well I took the rifle out to the range this morning and it was a cold 20 degrees F. Took a box of factory Remington 86 grain core lock and 2 of my reloads- 85 grain Meister and 85 grain Hi Tek Missouri bullets. Both of the reloads were pushed with 8 grains of IMR 4227. The Meister bullets are advertised at .258 while the Missouri bullets are advertised at .259. I noticed that when loading. I was set up for the Meister bullet but when I switched to the Missouri bullet I had to adjust my expanding die just a little bit to open up the case mouth a little bit more to accept the bullet properly. The factory bullets shot beautifully however the 258 Meister bullets were all over-6-7 inch groups at 25 yds and a few slightly oblong holes. The .259 Missouri bullets faired better-about a 2 inch group at 25 yds and all holes were round. According to my data I'm pushing these 85 grainers about 200 fps faster than the factory load. I don't hold much hope for the Meister Bullet in this rifle. Right now I'll just back off on the powder charge and load up some more of the Missouri bullets. I welcome any and all suggestions and have already read through all the previous ones again. I may just have to break down and buy a mould for this rifle. I would like to duplicate what the factory loads do. Any more suggestions?

[atr]

My savage 23D has a 1:16 twist but shoots the 86gr J pretty well. The best cast for that rifle seems to be my 65 gr cast. I could not get the 86 gr cast, one similar to the yours pictured, to stabilize or be accurate.

that 86 gr did however work very well in my 257 Roberts !:smile:

[DDJ]

My savage 23D has a 1:16 twist but shoots the 86gr J pretty well. The best cast for that rifle seems to be my 65 gr cast. I could not get the 86 gr cast, one similar to the yours pictured, to stabilize or be accurate.

that 86 gr did however work very well in my 257 Roberts !:smile:

I may have that same problem but I'll play around with it some more. Thanks

[gnoahhh]

I recently acquired a 219 Savage in .25-20. It was re-bored/chambered from .22 Hornet, mounts a Weaver K4. I have a Lyman 257285 mold and I guess I gotta scare up a set of dies now too. (It came with three boxes of jacketed factory ammo so there'll need to be some plinking done to generate brass first. Oh darn.) My last .25-20 went with its dies- what an idiot I was!

[richhodg66]

Dang! Wish I had found that one. I have one I have put together from parts here and there with a ruined .30-30 barrel I plan to have relined to either .25-20 or .32 S&W Long. I really like Savage 219s and I recently bought a book that seems to be the authority on everything about them. The author has a web forum dedicated to them and the 220 shotguns.

[DDJ]

Well-I hate to admit to defeat but all of you whos said this bullet might not work very well in my rifle is apparently right. I've shot them faster and slower. So I'm going to try something in the 65-70 grain weight but I hate to spend 80 bucks for a mold only to find that this bullet won't work either. The rifle is capable of good accuracy by the way it shoots factory ammo. I'll just have to think about it some more

[Larry Gibson]

I've a Savage 23B with a 20" barrel (original was shortened). I normally use the GC'd 257420 bullet (70 gr +/- depending on alloy) but I also use this Lyman 257283 which casts an 80 gr HP with 20-1 alloy. I load it over 2.5 gr Bullseye for right at 1050 fps. It is "squirrel" accurate to about 75 yards but loses it after that. As to pushing it above 1200 fps even with a harder alloy I was not successful either with the usual suspect powders; 2400, Unique, 4227, 5744, etc. I've been using 4.5 gr Unique for 1550 fps or 11 gr 5744 for 1835 fps with the 257420 GC'd bullet.


254013

[DDJ]

I've a Savage 23B with a 20" barrel (original was shortened). I normally use the GC'd 257420 bullet (70 gr +/- depending on alloy) but I also use this Lyman 257283 which casts an 80 gr HP with 20-1 alloy. I load it over 2.5 gr Bullseye for right at 1050 fps. It is "squirrel" accurate to about 75 yards but loses it after that. As to pushing it above 1200 fps even with a harder alloy I was not successful either with the usual suspect powders; 2400, Unique, 4227, 5744, etc. I've been using 4.5 gr Unique for 1550 fps or 11 gr 5744 for 1835 fps with the 257420 GC'd bullet.


254013

That's the mould that I'm looking at. It seems to be the only 25 cal mould commercially available suitable for the 25 20. Claims to throw a 65 grn bullet but by the time it's checked and lubed it's up over 70 grns. The one I'm looking at is a 2 cavity mould. Besides I now have 2 almost full boxes -500 each- of a good alloy bullet that should make nice 65 grn boolits. Thanks
Dave

[444ttd]

Dang! Wish I had found that one. I have one I have put together from parts here and there with a ruined .30-30 barrel I plan to have relined to either .25-20 or .32 S&W Long. I really like Savage 219s and I recently bought a book that seems to be the authority on everything about them. The author has a web forum dedicated to them and the 220 shotguns.



sorry for messing up the op's thread.
does the savage 219 have scope mounts? or do you have to d&t it?

[richhodg66]

Some of the 219s came grooved like .22 rimfires, but most are not drilled and tapped. My .22 Hornet came to me already set up for one of the Weaver side mounts as did a .30-30 I have. Someone told me there are Weaver bases designed for it to be mounted on top of the receiver which would be better if you plan to do it.

[444ttd]

thanks!!!

[DDJ]

Well-I haven't given up on these bullets. I'm working with Meister and Missouri 85 grain bullets. They're identical in every way except the Meister bullet is conventionally lubed while the Missouri bullet is Hi-Teck coated. These are all shot in a 109 year old 1892 Winchester with 71 year old eyes. I also shot some factory Remington 86 grain loads and they shot great. My goal was to at least duplicate the factory round grouping at 25 yards. I finally followed 50target's idea and went down to 6.5 grains of IMR4227. This is the only load that the Meister bullet finally made round holes with no signs of key holing but about a 3 inch group. Any thing hotter than that I was lucky to hit my portable little-13"X16"-target stand and all the holes were oblong. The Missouri bullets shot round holes all along and formed groups-no signs of key holing. At 7 grains of 4227 the Missouri bullets finally shot better groups than the factory load did while the Meister bullet was then shooting 6-10 inch groups. I was hoping to develop a load with a little more snoose to it. I took a caliper to these bullets and they're pretty much identical,. I just don't understand how 2 bullets of the same design can shoot so differently. I don't get it.

[Zingger]

I had the same findings when I started with my 25-20 and it drove me crazy. Couldn't get it to group worth a hoot. Ran some 60 grainers I bought at a gunshow through it with IMR4198 and bingo, what a shooter! I also was able to source an old mold for the 25-20, something like a 65 grain or so plain base. It shoots them great. Go lighter bullets or boolits with the 1:14 twist. 254156

[richhodg66]

Well, the Rapine mold I have apparently isn't going to work, just shot a couple of groups with it and every one went through sideways at 50 yards. The bullets weigh 95 grains, but are hardly any longer than the ones I shot that my Dad cast. I need to look around and see if I have that mold.

Now I have a few hundred of these cast up, guess I'll do some plinking with the .250 Savage or .25-06.

[DDJ]

Thanks again for the replies! As per my last post I did get the 85 grain Missouri bullet to shoot nice groups but with a light load. What gets me is 2 identical bullets except the lube/coatings. and the lubed bullet keyholed every load I tried except for the last very light load. The Hi_Tek bullet grouped everything-not necessarily small-and shot 100% better. Now I think the lighter bullets are the was to go at least for my rifle. I'm buying the Lyman 257420 mold which is a GC mold. I might look into Hi-Teking them instead of a gas check. The Meister Bullets will be melted down into these boolits. I have nothing against the Meister bullet. They look like a quality casting but just not compatible with my rifle. Dave

[bigdog454]

Killed lots of chucks in my earlier days with a 23 savage in 25-20 using a 65gr cast out to 125 yards or so. very deadly.
BD

[shdwlkr]

here is an excellent write up on the 25-20 http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCB25-20Win.htm

[DDJ]

here is an excellent write up on the 25-20 http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCB25-20Win.htm

Yup-I have that boolmarked on my computer and refer to it offen