Convert L-frame to 10mm?

[Jtarm]

Anyone know of a gunsmith who could do this conversion?

I checked Clements site & says he only does conversions on N-frames.

I have the Ruger MC, but the trigger still is no match for an S&W, and N-frames are just too big for my hands for fast DA work (action pistol.)

[knifemaker]

Maybe you should ask Clements why he will not convert a L frame to 10mm. Might be a problem with safety issues on thinner walls in the cylinder not holding up to the pressure levels.

[jaguarxk120]

The 10MM operates at pressure's above the 44 Magnum!
How many "L" frame revolvers are made in 44 Magnum?
I don't think it is a wise idea making that conversion. And
why would you want a semi-auto pistol round in a revolver.

[Hickory]

THow many "L" frame revolvers are made in 44 Magnum?.

S&W 69.....L frame

[9.3X62AL]

And why would you want a semi-auto pistol round in a revolver?

Stand by to be boarded.

[jaguarxk120]

How durable is the model 69?
S&W had/has issues with the "K" frame model 19's and forcing cones. The 69 is a thin
barrel with a shroud around it.
If you look up the SAAMI charts on the 10MM you will find that the operating pressures
are several thousand pounds above the 44 magnum pressures.

[tazman]

And why would you want a semi-auto pistol round in a revolver.

So when the government gets around to outlawing semi auto pistols, I can still use my remaining ammunition in my revolver.
One of the reasons I own a S&W 929.
Besides, I tend to shoot a revolver better than I do a semi auto pistol. Undoubtedly a personal issue.
My experiences come from 9mm and 45ACP. I don't have any experience with a 10mm. Yet.

[megasupermagnum]

I can't help much, but figured I'd throw this out there. 10mm auto MAP 37,500 PSI. 44 magnum MAP 35,000 PSI, used to be much higher.

I don't know about you, but I don't consider that difference to be worth worrying about.

L frames and the Ruger GP100 are comparatively sized. Ruger makes a 10mm auto GP100, so what's the big deal?

[jaguarxk120]

I think the Ruger is a larger frame than the S&W, also the Ruger does not have the frame cuts the S&W has.
The Ruger is more of a solid frame with thicker frame walls.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive seen them done on L frames but there on custom 5 shot cylinders not 6. Gp100 is a stronger gun.

[onelight]

I don't know much about steel or heat treating but could they have done something different in the 69 ?
I get to shoot my buddies on occasion it's a nice shooter with both factory and hand loads I had a tough time choosing between it and the GP100 but went 44 special GP100.

[country gent]

On a 6 shot cylinder the bolt cut outs are on the cylinder . the reason for the 5 shot cylinders is the bolt cuts fall between the cylinders where there is more metal. I would really wonder how the L frame would hold up to the pressures and thinner cylinder walls

[jaguarxk120]

I believe both the S&W 69 and the Ruger GP100 are five shot cylinders. So the bolt cuts are between the chambers.
This leaves more metal over the chamber. I think all of the big boomers are five shot for that reason.

[ddixie884]

My Clements 686 .41spl is a 6 shot. David said a 220gr could be pushed to 1200fps. A 10mm would have an xtra .05 of metal under the bolt notches. Just a thought............

[Ramjet-SS]

With so many great choices in 10mm revolvers why bother? Not trying to be jerk just saying for far less cost and far better safety the current run of various revolvers will get you where you want. Oh yea the stinking government is NOT getting my semi autos............period

[tazman]

The OP is looking for a specialty competition revolver that is lighter than what is currently available. He said the N frame Smiths are too big and heavy for his hands.
I really don't think the cost is a factor for him.
I live in Illinois. There is no telling what the government here will try to pull. Nothing is beyond them.

[bpatterson84]

I think its a great idea. Ive run thousands of hot 44mag loads through my model 69, and it has an adequate forcing cone, lots of info on that topic on S&W forum. Id really like to see the 41 mag in this platform as well.

And why would someone want to do this? We like the L frame better than available options.

[35remington]

I fail to see what a 10mm will do that a 357 revolver will not in this application.

The current as-is revolver can be modded for moon clips if playing games is the thing.

[derek45]

Maybe Andy Horvath

Andy Horvath
Diagonal Road Gun Shop
14131 Diagonal Rd.
LaGrange, OH 44050

(440) 458-4369

[Jtarm]

My Clements 686 .41spl is a 6 shot. David said a 220gr could be pushed to 1200fps. A 10mm would have an xtra .05 of metal under the bolt notches. Just a thought............

Clements response was that the barrel stem is too thin for 10mm pressures.

Seems a little odd, given that the L frame has been chambered in .40 S&W and there’s only a 2k difference in pressure limit between the two.

[Jtarm]

Maybe Andy Horvath

Andy Horvath
Diagonal Road Gun Shop
14131 Diagonal Rd.
LaGrange, OH 44050

(440) 458-4369

Thanks!

[Jtarm]

The OP is looking for a specialty competition revolver that is lighter than what is currently available. He said the N frame Smiths are too big and heavy for his hands.
I really don't think the cost is a factor for him.
I live in Illinois. There is no telling what the government here will try to pull. Nothing is beyond them.

Thank you.

I’m glad to see a few people fully read and understood my post.



I fail to see what a 10mm will do that a 357 revolver will not in this application.

The current as-is revolver can be modded for moon clips if playing games is the thing.

Because moon clips run much better with rimless rounds. Clips for rimmed rounds have to be made thinner and smaller frame sizes can be quite flimsy. .38/.357 moons can be very finicky about what brass you run them with. Plus a .40/10mm is easier to make major with.

[35remington]

I’d guess the longer 10mm round might put peak pressures closer to the B/C gap versus the 40.

If there is evidence someone else who competes has successfully gone this conversion route that might be the person to contact if you can find match results.

If you cannot find someone like that this might be a clue.

[Jtarm]

My Clements 686 .41spl is a 6 shot. David said a 220gr could be pushed to 1200fps. A 10mm would have an xtra .05 of metal under the bolt notches. Just a thought............

Interesting.

How long is the .41 case? How long ago was the conversion?

I know some DIY Gunsmith’s who have converted 686s to .40 S&W. That was when 646 barrels were still available.

Anyway, for whatever reason, Clements doesn’t want to do it.

[ddixie884]

Daivid hasn't worked on S&Ws in a long time. He did 10mm and .41spl in GP100 until few months ago. He has dropped this option from his web-site.......

[DougGuy]

My Clements 686 .41spl is a 6 shot. David said a 220gr could be pushed to 1200fps.

I can get a 250gr to 1200fps in 45 Schofield brass in a med. frame Vaquero and still be under 23kpsi which is nowhere NEAR what a 10mm would do and afaik a 200gr in 10mm is about maxed out, unless I'm missing something.

[megasupermagnum]

For strong 10mm auto loads, 1300fps with 180 grain, 1200 fps with 200 grain, and 1100 fps with 220 grain are about what you can expect, which is right within what a 357 magnum can do. Those cartridges are about as apples to apples as far as ballistics as you can get.

The OP said he has a preference for a rimless case for competition use though, so I can fully understand what he wants. I hope he finds a gunsmith that can do it.

[Groo]

Groo here
I have both the M-69 and the Gp100 WC 10mm.
The 69 is a 5 shot 44mag,[ in 41 it would be the same]
The Gp 10 mm is a 6 shot.
The 10mm being a rimless case takes up less space around the cylinder than a 41 or 44 with a rim.
As to the 357/10mm debate----- both will drive the same weight bullet at the same speed BUT the 10mm is bigger around ..
This helps with FMJ or Hard cast bullets..
For hunting if using HP bullets , 357 , if solid or cast--- 10mm.

[megasupermagnum]

Groo here
I have both the M-69 and the Gp100 WC 10mm.
The 69 is a 5 shot 44mag,[ in 41 it would be the same]
The Gp 10 mm is a 6 shot.
The 10mm being a rimless case takes up less space around the cylinder than a 41 or 44 with a rim.
As to the 357/10mm debate----- both will drive the same weight bullet at the same speed BUT the 10mm is bigger around ..
This helps with FMJ or Hard cast bullets..
For hunting if using HP bullets , 357 , if solid or cast--- 10mm.

This is true, but 357 magnum bullets, generally used in a revolver, often have as big or bigger flat noses than 10mm auto, which is mainly intended for a semi-auto.

357 magnum and 10 mm auto is as apples to apples as you will ever find in the shooting world without them being the exact same thing.

[Jtarm]

This is true, but 357 magnum bullets, generally used in a revolver, often have as big or bigger flat noses than 10mm auto, which is mainly intended for a semi-auto.


Care to put a wager on that?


http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=40-224H-D.png