New sabot prototype

[Acknott]

Hello all, new to the forum, I have a sabot prototype for 12g slugs that should be able to handle higher velocities than the RSS Sabots. Still testing as of right now.

[bikerbeans]

It didn't happen without pics.;)

BB

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Talk is always cheap, we want pictures.
Specially I can't even read.

[Minerat]

Welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy your experience here and I'm pretty sure many members will enjoy following your sabot development. Be sure to read the rules and don't be afraid to ask questions. The most important is the 30 posts/ 30 day rule for qualification to sell in Swapin & Selling (S&S).

[Acknott]

Thank you all, I will have pictures after the new year. Still working out some kinks.

[pastorcurtis]

Work it up for 20 gauge, too!

[Acknott]

Work it up for 20 gauge, too!

Already in the works if the 12 ga. model turns out well, what diameter bullet/slug would people want to see in a 20?

[303Guy]

And 410. I bought mine for the purpose of shooting slugs and it hasn't happened yet, some four years later. :roll:

[megasupermagnum]

If you are going to try and improve a shotgun sabot, I would look to using a larger caliber. Something like 62 caliber .620" in 12 gauge. In 20 gauge, 50 caliber might make sense, but I would rather see 54 caliber .540" bullets.

The real problem is accuracy. Nothing 2000 fps plus has ever been accurate in a shotgun.

[Acknott]

The problem with .410 is that getting results from a smooth bore is very difficult with this type of shell. As far as accuracy from high velocity shells, my gun shoots them very well and flat, I know different guns like different ammunition, so I will say that the gun I will be testing with for 12 gauge is a Mossberg 695. I have had success with Fusion, SST, and XP3 slugs. They are just getting expensive to purchase.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings Acknott, right now all big Ammo makers are offering 2000 fps for 300 gr slug sabots.
Partition Gold carries a hefty 385 grain sabot slug. With a muzzle velocity of 1850 fps (3-inch)

You face tough challenges to out do them as they all talk about 150 to 175 yards.
I wish you all the Best.

Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Acknott]

Greetings Acknott, right now all big Ammo makers are offering 2000 fps for 300 gr slug sabots.
Partition Gold carries a hefty 385 grain sabot slug. With a muzzle velocity of 1850 fps (3-inch)

You face tough challenges to out do them as they all talk about 150 to 175 yards.
I wish you all the Best.

Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

Yes I know, out-doing them isn't necessarily the goal as much as making a product for reloaders to match them for a lesser cost. I believe I can make a product that will hold up to the velocity and charges, the hard part is finding the safe loads to get those velocities.

[Blood Trail]

Yes I know, out-doing them isn't necessarily the goal as much as making a product for reloaders to match them for a lesser cost. I believe I can make a product that will hold up to the velocity and charges, the hard part is finding the safe loads to get those velocities.

I believe in you, brother!


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[Acknott]

So I am ready to revisit this venture, last year I did successfully load and test my sabots, but the results were less than satisfactory. I made them from Nylon and they were very stiff, and I believe I undersized them as well. I am planning to remake them .08-.10 larger in diameter and maybe switch to ABS? I will upload some pictures of the original ones later today.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings, what diameter were you using for 12 and 20 ga Sabots?
What size bullet are you designing your sabots to take?

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Acknott]

I have only made and tested the 12 gauge so far. .720 is the diameter I used with .500-.503 diameter bullets. I need to make the sabot itself have a larger diameter, I am ok with the interior diameter, however I can make it with any diameter I choose. I have also been mulling over the idea of a heavier bullet in the sabot as well.

[Hogtamer]

Uncle Dino will have sabots sometime in the spring....and boolits that actually fit. The man has a genius for designs that work. His bullet business is going great (5 people working for him now) and just not a lot of time for the forum now.

[longbow]

Acknott:

I'd suggest using Delrin for the sabots and making them somewhat over "standard" 12 ga. diameter. I am a bit confused by rifled shotgun bores and would have figured that the manufacturers would have standardized at least on groove diameter but... apparently not!

I have read of very large groove diameters in USH barrels and the Remington 870 I borrowed slugged at 0.727" groove diameter so small. The rifled choke tube I ordered is 0.730" groove diameter.

I'd go with a sabot O.D. of at least 0.730" and likely larger (0.735"?) so it can squeeze to fit any groove diameter. Rifling tends to be very shallow so not much to grab if the sabot is undersize.

My opinion anyway.

Longbow

[Acknott]

Here they are, I did some comparisons to a Hornady SST sabot today, the SST sabot measures .724. The sabot base seems to expand a bit under pressure.



278472278473278474

[megasupermagnum]

Those huge gaps between the petals are not conducive to accuracy. Make the sabot a nearly full fit with only tiny slits between petals, and make the diameter far larger, .732" would be a good number to shoot for.

[Acknott]

Those huge gaps between the petals are not conducive to accuracy. Make the sabot a nearly full fit with only tiny slits between petals, and make the diameter far larger, .732" would be a good number to shoot for.

Noted on the gaps, they are pretty wide on these. I have a drawing of them at 1/3rd of the size that I will be using.

[longbow]

Those look like they are 3D printed? If so I will guess that they will not be consistent enough to provide good accuracy. At least based on what I have seen 3D printed even with good industrial 3D printers.

Also, if 3D printed I am not sure of the plastic bond between layers. Again, based on my experience the plastic may not be well enough bonded to take the pressure and jump through forcing cone. BigMrTong 3D printed his rocket fins but those are purely in compression and sit inside a shotcup with cushion leg. Not saying they aren't worth trying even if 3D printed because they may work if they are consistent size.

If machined then ignore this post as they should be fine if accurately machined and correct size. I'll side with msm there too... 0.732" minimum sounds like a nice number and should fit most common groove diameters. 0.735" might be a bit big, though depending on plastic should squish down easily enough.

Longbow

[Acknott]

They are 3D printed, all of the test run were very consistent on sizing and held together a bit too well (stayed on the bullet) I am adding a relief groove at the bottom by the base to allow pre stressing without snapping as well as lowering the infill (density) of the nylon for this go around. If that doesn't work then a new plastic will be in the works. I have spent most of the day on the revisions and can't wait to see if there are any improvements.

[longbow]

Yes, you need a groove at the base of the petals to get them to open. I worked on a 3D model and drawings for a design Greg Sappington came up several years ago. He had to play with designs to get petals to open and sabots to separate well but in the end he got it. I don't think he ever went into full production mode though. He was getting those CNC machined from Delrin.

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

Since you're using 3-D print, you could try with a design where the petals have a slight outwards spread to help separating bullet and wad. Of course the wad must be pliable enough not to bulge the hull when loading.

[Greg5278]

If You want to use powders that have the capacity for high velocity, I would use a different Sabot material.
Nylon is abrasive to Steel, and ABS is a bit brittle. HDPE would be a good fit, and common. I use Acetal/Delrin, but have to watch that
everything is seated tight. A sudden gap will crack the base of the Sabot.

If You go with bullets heavier than 300 grains, I would try Lil Gun, or something similar. Longshot peaks too quickly, and can cause failures.
Stay away from AA#9 and H110, as dangerous spikes can occur.

Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[longbow]

Greg:

Good to see you back! I have mentioned your name a few times lately here and in a thread on heavy slugs referencing your previous posts on your 1043 gr. bear stopper... a notably heavy slug!

Longbow

[Acknott]

If You want to use powders that have the capacity for high velocity, I would use a different Sabot material.
Nylon is abrasive to Steel, and ABS is a bit brittle. HDPE would be a good fit, and common. I use Acetal/Delrin, but have to watch that
everything is seated tight. A sudden gap will crack the base of the Sabot.

If You go with bullets heavier than 300 grains, I would try Lil Gun, or something similar. Longshot peaks too quickly, and can cause failures.
Stay away from AA#9 and H110, as dangerous spikes can occur.

Greg
AKA 12 Bore

Thank you! This is very helpful. I thought it may be abrasive as well but at the time these were made it was the strongest print option I had.

[Greg5278]

Nylon would just be rough for long term use in a Rifled bore. Delrin/Acetal/POM is good, but can crack under setback.
HDPE is a reasonable density allows for low Friction, and good shock resistance.

I found that Delrin Sabots need a Powder that is slower, or builds pressure more slowly. Longshot seems to be rough on components, as is Unique, and Red Dot. The Fastest I have ever pushed a 12 Ga Sabot was 2254 FPS using the CCS Sabot, and a 265 Grain Lehigh .458 Brass bullet. I don't exactly recall the tested Pressure, but think is was 13.5K PSI.

I did take 1 Deer with the Load, and never used it again, Recoil was really snappy, and it wasted too much Meat.
I have never seen such Tissue damage with any Rifle Caliber. It literally pulled out a large portion of one Lung, and left it looking like a Pennant on the off side. In my experience, the 12 Ga is easiest to shoot accurately with a load of 1580-1750 FPS using a 50 Caliber bullet in the 324-350 grain range.

Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[Blood Trail]

Bump


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[Acknott]

I have given up this project, after many re-designs not working and even the company I had running these for me going out of business I have invested too much with no results. Between blowing out the bottom of the Sabots, petals not opening, only opening half way, tumbling slugs, and even a sabot getting stuck in the barrel I think it is time. Maybe if I get more resources and fund a new guy to print them I will try again one day, for now full bore it is

[BandeauRouge]

MMP is the place you need to go discuss things with.

they been making sabots for oh since 1990?

[megasupermagnum]

MMP is the place you need to go discuss things with.

they been making sabots for oh since 1990?

Perhaps, but there is a whole world of difference between making a a cup that just needs to guide a bullet down a barrel in a muzzleloader, rather than a shotgun where it has to realign a very undersized bullet through a forcing cone. That's on top of the fact it has to deal with all kinds of wadding that a muzzleloader doesn't. If you look at sabot's from good shotgun slugs such as those from Federal or Remington you will find that they are not similar at all to those used in muzzleloaders. Not in design or materials.

I wouldn't feel too bad Acknott. Most manufacturers have been trying to perfect sabot shotgun slugs since the late 80's. They had decades, all the equipment imaginable, and workers whos job it was to do that. They still aren't that amazing when you really look at it. One of the most accurate sabot slugs ever is from BRI back in the 80's, and it doesn't seem like anyone has ever surpassed it. Actually if you look at the people who have actually put up the most impressive groups from slug guns you will see names like Lightfield, Hastings, and other slugs that are not what most think of sabot slugs. Thankfully Bloodtrail has purchased a company that makes such a slug that is just like a Hastings.

[Blood Trail]

Every commercial sabot I’ve seen had either a metal disk molded in the base of the sabot or had one externally attached to prevent that from happening.

The best results I’ve gotten from RSS sabots was when I placed a .44 cal cork/rubber disk in the base of the sabot.


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[Acknott]

Thank you megasupermagnum. Blood Trail, what is the name of your company and do your slugs do well in rifled barrels? I would be very interested in giving them a try

[Blood Trail]

Thank you megasupermagnum. Blood Trail, what is the name of your company and do your slugs do well in rifled barrels? I would be very interested in giving them a try

I bought SlugsRUs but changed the name to Freedom Ballistics Lab, LLC. I kept the Hammerhead slug name. My injection molds are being repaired and should be up and running within the next month.

Yes, they perform outstanding in rifled barrels only. Do a search on here and you’ll find some topics on them.


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[W.R.Buchanan]

Here's a Slugs R Us/ Leon Slug with a Brass Insert and the target that was shot at 50 yards from a Browning A5 with a Hastings Barrel with Open Sights. It measures 1 x 1.5" Got similar results with the Lead insert. First 3 shots were the clover leaf! These are called "Hammerheads" for a Reason !!!.

I only run these at 1250-1300 fps. I have seen videos where they came apart at 1500 fps, but at 550 gr they really don't need to go that fast. Easily a 100 yard slug at 1200fps

Randy.

[Blood Trail]

Here's a Slugs R Us/ Leon Slug with a Brass Insert and the target that was shot at 50 yards from a Browning A5 with a Hastings Barrel with Open Sights. It measures 1 x 1.5" Got similar results with the Lead insert. First 3 shots were the clover leaf! These are called "Hammerheads" for a Reason !!!.

I only run these at 1250-1300 fps. I have seen videos where they came apart at 1500 fps, but at 550 gr they really don't need to go that fast. Easily a 100 yard slug at 1200fps

Randy.

Very nice. My favorite load with these is using 800X. I had them moving at 1650 fps.

Here’s a few groups:https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/1ecd21a6acf241c56b1eeed054b35445.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/d86adff0101356898364f12259dfe0c4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/b164c6585218f3f7d86514272b347200.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/0b65ef22f4cdec27c72e4245bdbb14e2.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230801/77e05c69277e5a3c90ada99aea20a3c9.jpg


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[centershot]

That's good news Leon, and darn good shooting, both you and Randy! My roundball loads are pretty good but I'm looking forward to trying the Hammerhead when thet're available.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I had them moving at 1650 fps. Yes but you are much larger and can absorb much more abuse than my 73 year old **** can. [smilie=w:

Randy

[Hogtamer]

I need some 20s when you get in production!

[Blood Trail]

I have it on my schedule to call them tomorrow. I can’t wait to get them going.


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