30-06 not going all the way in...

[Andyt591]

Ok. Since you folks have been so helpful... I have been doing "busy work" to pass the time (a lot of depriming and sizing). I got to my 30-06 cases tonight and they will not fit more than 3/4 of the way into the die. I've lubed them up really good (inside and out) with Dillon Case Lube but they seem to take a lot of force once they get so far in. What am I missing? I don't have my press mounted permanently yet and since I'm still using my coffee table for a work bench I don't want to put a ton of force on my press (I don't want to damage the table).

My apologies now for not having pictures.

[Walks]

Is the Sizing Die the correct one ? Or is it mis-marked ?
We're the cases G.I. surplus that had been fired in an Automatic Firearm ?

[725]

Might have to wait 'till you can mount the press to make it go. Correct FL die, properly set, w/ a lightly lubed case should work. Some (depending on the chamber the case was fired in - make of the case - hardness of the brass - etc.) will require some force. Bolt it down on a good work table, and I bet it will be much easier. Good luck.

[trails4u]

Also...make sure you didn't end up with a small base die. If you did, and ended up with machine gun brass.....I could see troubles there.

[Andyt591]

Not ammo I fired. It's a mix of cases (LC, WCC, Remington, Winchester, etc) that I was given. I tried several different ones (all with different head stamps) with the same issues.

[nicholst55]

Sounds to me like you need to bolt your press to a sturdy bench, and then size your brass.

[Conditor22]

A little lube goes a long way, too much might be bad

Some dies have a vent hole in the side if this gets plugged it could cause a problem. check you die for a small vent hole and make sure it's clean and don't over lube the cases.

[Bazoo]

What press are you using? Lots of difference in the ability of a Lee C press and a rock chucker for example.

[triggerhappy243]

Andyt591, is your brass clean? like completely washed clean, no dirt, carbon or dust?

[toallmy]

You know what is worse than the brass not going all the way in the full length sizing die ? It staying in the die and the rim pulling off . Take care to properly lube the case , clamp the press down securely , and if you still have trouble full-length sizing your brass - try removing the expander assembly and sizing the brass in increments , but remember to reapply lube as you go . A sturdy mounted press , and a good lube is a must for smashing hard to size brass into a die it doesn't want to go into . If you hear any squeaking stop and check your lube .

[StratsMan]

Andyt591... you mentioned in another thread that your buddy is teaching you the ins-n-outs of reloading... I recommend you take some of this brass and YOUR 30-06 die to his house and see how it works on a properly mounted press... Even if these cases were not fired through machine guns, they will take a lot more force to size down than the 38 Specials that you've been resizing...

I wouldn't try to size any shouldered rifle cases (223, 308, 30-06, etc...) on a press that was not securely mounted to a bench. I've done lots of straight-wall pistol loading on temporary setups, but a weak mount will not yield good results when sizing large cases....

[Petrol & Powder]

Sounds to me like you need to bolt your press to a sturdy bench, and then size your brass.

/\ Ditto /\

[country gent]

Brass fired in some semi auto may be harder to size also. Slightly larger chambers and more violent extraction. Coupled with a die that's at minimum dimensions force goes up a lot. Look for a bright ring at the case head. Another that can increase sizing force is Upper end loads as to pressure. with range pick ups and donated you don't have the load history of the brass.

I use lee imperial sizing die wax for sizing rifle cases. Applied lightly. It lowers sizing force a bit. A sizing lube can make a big difference. The old case former lube was anhydrous lanolin.

30-06 brass especially the later military cases are pretty heavy

[Petrol & Powder]

I doubt the OP can make any real evaluation of the problem until he bolts his press down to a proper bench.

[swheeler]

^^^^^^^^^^^ yes bolt your press to a solid bench

[DonMountain]

So, what press are you using? Some of the smaller presses only have enough power to reload pistol brass. And my recommendation is to go buy some brand-new unfired 30-06 cases from a reputable company (Starline, Winchester, Remington, etc.) and try to run them through your resizing die to see if the die is the problem. And start your experimenting with good brass to get good loads. Also what brand of dies are you using? Normal size or small base dies? I have found some cheapy dies just don't have the smooth interior surfaces needed to properly resize rough brass. Have you cleaned your brass? And last, do you use a good resizing lubricant? I prefer Hornady's Unique lube as I can apply it in a more controlled fashion.

[Andyt591]

The press is a RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme. Dies are RCBS full length.

[skeettx]

OK, mount the press firmly.
Number 3 shell holder (RCBS)
Cases are lubed.
Decapping pin just clears the shell holder hole to push primers out
Run the case up until contact is felt and just a bit more.
Retract the handle and turn the case 45 degrees.
Run the case up until contact is felt and just a bit more.
Retract the handle and turn the case 45 degrees, this should move it a
bit further up into the die.
Run the case up until contact is felt and just a bit more.
Retract the handle and turn the case 45 degrees.
Progress should be being made without sticking the case in the die.
Continue until the case is full length sized and the die is lubed
Same on the second case but should be easier.
Third case should be able to go all the way without retraction, perhaps
Let us know
Mike

[rockrat]

Try a different lube. I use Hornady "unique" lube.

[Wayne Smith]

Andy, read #18 again, then do it. I reloaded for years with an RCBS Jr3 mounted to a dining room table (towel between press and table top, board between bottom of table and C clamps) mounted with two C clamps. You have a better press and, if your coffee table is strongly made you can do this just as you are. If it is not well made move to a stronger table. I never damaged a table or got a shell stuck. I have done what Skeetx posted several times with 308 and 30-06 military brass that I assumed were fired in a Machine Gun but never had a chance to confirm this. I also have made 8mmx06 from 30-06 with that same setup.
Back then I was using RCBS sizing lube -which is STP rebottled. Now I use bag balm, which is basically lanolin with some additives.
Good luck, pay attention to table strength and mounting and have at it.

[Petrol & Powder]

From the OP, "......I don't have my press mounted permanently yet and since I'm still using my coffee table for a work bench I don't want to put a ton of force on my press (I don't want to damage the table). "

We don't know HOW the OP is using his coffee table for a bench. (C-clamps, Bolted to a board and that C-clamped to the coffee table, No C-clamps at all, Chewing gum?????)

Nor do we know what constitutes "a lot of force...." in the mind of the OP.

Let's start with how is the press mounted and can it be mounted to a better surface?

[Andyt591]

I was able to resolve my issue. It was the fact that I don't have my press secured yet.

[brstevns]

Great to hear you found the problem

[toallmy]

Try some imperial wax when you get a chance .

[Dusty Bannister]

As in post #10, since you have so much difficulty getting the case sized, do remove the deprime spindle. Then if you have a stuck case you can hopefully drive the case out of the die with a rod and hammer. "Free" brass can be more costly than knowing the history of once fired brass. If you have not already done so, carefully inspect the case rims for signs of distortion or other marring of the case body. Also look to see if the primers show damage. That might indicate excessive pressure and the reason for them being discarded. Sizing until resistance is met and then a little and then back out turn the case and go a little further is a good suggestion. Verify the presence of a little lube as you do this.

Do you apply lube to just the neck, or the entire case? The case is tapered so eventually you are forcing the entire case into the die at one time so more force is needed.

Edit: Took too long typing. :-(

[frkelly74]

Lots of good lubes out there. I like Castor oil for making things go easy. ( it will however kill a primer if you leave any in the case ) . Do try not to force the case in with too much pressure because if they get stuck that is a whole new challenge for you to get it out. One thing I did when I was starting out was get one of those Lyman sizers that have no threads on them, you use a vice or arbor press to apply pressure. I used a big bench vice and it applied a nice checkered pattern on the base of cases put through that treatment, so I knew that they had been sized. Any way lube is still necessary to prevent you from getting into a real struggle.

[Andyt591]

Lots of great advice here, guys. I greatly appreciate it! :-)

[DonMountain]

Lots of good lubes out there. I like Castor oil for making things go easy. . . . .

I definitely do not like Castor oil! My mother used to give that to me when I was a kid to cure me of everything! And it tasted really bad! So it can't possibly be any good for lubricating cases either, just because. I will Not have that in my house!

[largom]

I definitely do not like Castor oil! My mother used to give that to me when I was a kid to cure me of everything! And it tasted really bad! So it can't possibly be any good for lubricating cases either, just because. I will Not have that in my house!

SAME HERE! Have used most everything over the years and have found Imperial sizing wax to be the BEST.

[truckjohn]

Honestly guys,

I quit buying Lee reloading dies after having too many problems with stuck shells due to internal die problems. It seems like I ran through a several in a row which appear to he completely lacking their final internal reaming/grinding to final size.

[brstevns]

Lots of great advice here, guys. I greatly appreciate it! :-)

I do know they were 1x fired brass from my cousins Ruger Bolt Action
I too use Imperial Sizing Wax for my sizing

[gwpercle]

I was resizing a bunch of 303 British that had been fired in Machine guns... WWII surplus .
Big heavy duty Pacific press , securely mounted to heavy bench sized in stages , deeper increments , not all in one pass (like post #18 ) and had to use STP oil treatment as a case lube . Made sure cases were lubed at every sizing step . If it goes in the sizing die hard ... it's going to be a bear to pull out... you don't want the rim to pull off .
Use a good shell holder RCBS , Redding or CH4D...DO NOT use a Lee shell holder !
Gary

[firefly1957]

When I first start loading it was with a RCBS junior press and for 30-30 I had no issues with it bolted to a old mail sorting table The next year I bout a 30-06 and had been saving once fired brass mostly military . I quickly ran into the same problem you did and split the table I forget what I reinforced that first reloading bench with The bench I have today has a 1/2" thick aluminum plate for the top ! I use it to swage also and have several presses mounted to it .

[tankgunner59]

I use my mom's old kitchen table for a bench, it's heavier construction than many coffee tables, I have bolted all my presses to 2X6 boards and then C- clamp the boards to my bench. I have one hand press that is not included here. I normally use Lee case sizing lube, but on difficult cases I use Imperial sizing wax, it works great. You can also make a heavy duty portable bench from 2X lumber, it only needs to be big enough to hold you press and have good bracing.
I have encountered some 30-06 that takes a longer slow, steady stroke on my press.

[Three44s]

The Lyman Unique formula is superior to Imperial Die Sizing on a day to day basis.

The Unique lube is easier to administer the truly small amounts of lube that it takes to properly lube cases that the Imperial was. You get much more product with the Lyman tub for the money and it lasts much longer per ounce and because it is a harder formula each ounce goes farther.

I can not measure the relative lubricity between these two lubes but in actually using them I call it a draw or just irrelevant. The advantage with the Unique lube beyond economy is that you have a better chance in not over applying it compared to Imperial.

This is an observation over an extended time using a plenty of both products.

Three44s

[John Boy]

I don't have my press mounted permanently yet and since I'm still using my coffee table for a work bench I don't want to put a ton of force on my press (I don't want to damage the table).
* Set your press on a piece of plywood with a cloth under it
* Clamp the press & wood to the table with 2 C Clamps
* The case webs need to be shrunk ...Adjust the Full Lenth die so it goes all the way to the rim
* Lightly lube the case and bring the press ram down hard so the cases have the webs shrunk
Then - mark the cases with a magic marker - chamber and see if they go all the way into the chamber with the bolt closed
.... I had this issue with once fired 300 Win Mags and with the diameter of the webs reduced - chambered perfectly ... Good Luck

[Andyt591]

This is the way I have my press mounted (for now) since I quit using the coffee table...

253225

Since then, I have had no further issues with any brass. Thank you all for your suggestions and help.

-Andrew

[skeettx]

Well done, thank you for sharing

[rintinglen]

Honestly guys,

I quit buying Lee reloading dies after having too many problems with stuck shells due to internal die problems. It seems like I ran through a several in a row which appear to he completely lacking their final internal reaming/grinding to final size.
I have to call shenanigans on this. I am no Lee fan boy, but I have a score or more of Lee die sets and they have all served me well. I have lee dies for 32 acp up through 45/70, and have had no problems with any of them. Fairness compels me to state that I have never used any Lee magnum dies, but I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds with no die related problems.

[jonp]

OK, mount the press firmly.
Number 3 shell holder (RCBS)
Cases are lubed.
Decapping pin just clears the shell holder hole to push primers out
Run the case up until contact is felt and just a bit more.
Retract the handle and turn the case 45 degrees.
Run the case up until contact is felt and just a bit more.
Retract the handle and turn the case 45 degrees, this should move it a
bit further up into the die.
Run the case up until contact is felt and just a bit more.
Retract the handle and turn the case 45 degrees.
Progress should be being made without sticking the case in the die.
Continue until the case is full length sized and the die is lubed
Same on the second case but should be easier.
Third case should be able to go all the way without retraction, perhaps
Let us know
Mike

I'd add a step before all of the list you provided which is a great series of steps in order. Thoroughly clean the die first.

[jonp]

I have to call shenanigans on this. I am no Lee fan boy, but I have a score or more of Lee die sets and they have all served me well. I have lee dies for 32 acp up through 45/70, and have had no problems with any of them. Fairness compels me to state that I have never used any Lee magnum dies, but I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds with no die related problems.

I'm going to have to throw the flag on this one, too. I've not had those problems with the Lee Dies I have. They seem to perform just as well as the RCBS, Lyman and Hornady.

[notenoughguns]

I've been reloading 50+ years and never had a problem that wasn't my fault ! Majority of my dies are Lee that have been exemplary ( probably 30 + sets )

[John Boy]

Originally Posted by truckjohn View Post

Originally Posted by truckjohn
Honestly guys,

I quit buying Lee reloading dies after having too many problems with stuck shells due to internal die problems. It seems like I ran through a several in a row which appear to he completely lacking their final internal reaming/grinding to final size.
I have 59 die sets in inventory of which 31 are Lee Precision. Adjust the die sets properly and have no issues after reloading I don't know how many thousands of reloads that have been made with them
I'll guess the majority of having issues with Lee or any brand of dies is due to the person pulling the press arm

[jonp]

Originally Posted by truckjohn View Post

I have 59 die sets in inventory of which 31 are Lee Precision. Adjust the die sets properly and have no issues after reloading I don't know how many thousands of reloads that have been made with them
I'll guess the majority of having issues with Lee or any brand of dies is due to the person pulling the press arm

^^^+1

[BrassMagnet]

I forgot to lube a 308 case and when I worked the Rock Chucker handle I splintered an oak 2x12. My press actually went flying through the air.

[BrassMagnet]

I have to call shenanigans on this. I am no Lee fan boy, but I have a score or more of Lee die sets and they have all served me well. I have lee dies for 32 acp up through 45/70, and have had no problems with any of them. Fairness compels me to state that I have never used any Lee magnum dies, but I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds with no die related problems.

I got a new set of 300 Win Mag dies so I could teach my nephew to reload. They were not polished inside and destroyed every piece of brass that entered them. Luckily, I had RCBS dies for the lessons. Lee replaced the sizing die.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez - always keep a bottle of STP Oil Treatment or TRIFLOW SYNTHETIC GREASE on hand for "case lube" studies / checkouts.
If case WON'T size with these lubes, you gotta BIG PROBLEM!

[1hole]

Ref. difficulty FL sizing machine gun fired cases, I've made hundreds of .22-250 and .243 from military surplus .30-06 with my own shop made forming die sets. It's not hard and normal FL sizing .30-06, .308 & .223 is a pieced of cake compared to that. The key is a properly mounted press and any one of several normal case sizing lubes properly applied.

Using a conventional press as a hand press for FL sizing isn't a good idea.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

A lot of lubes work MOST of the time. But, when things get tough, Imperial Sizing Wax is the best.

[trails4u]

A lot of lubes work MOST of the time. But, when things get tough, Imperial Sizing Wax is the best.

Agreed.... Haven't stuck a case since I started using it.... Long time ago, and still using the same tin. A little goes a long way, and it works.

[1hole]

I've found that ALL commercial case lubes work quite well in ALL brands of sizer dies IF it's used correctly and IF it's applied as it needs to be. And a swinging pile of substitutes work good too, that stinking castor oil for one. And Kiwi's "Mink Oil" boot polish and tubes of "Chap-Stick" too.

Nothing works very well when it's done wrong. It seems most case sticking problems rise from failing to sufficently lube the lower end of the cases (that's where they stick) OR using one of the spray spray lubes but not allowing it to fully dry before starting to size.

With any lube, if it's more than normally difficult to push a case fully into a sizer for goodness sake don't power it home in one stroke, draw it out and lube it some more. Even if you're sizing "machine gun" cases they will go home easily IF they're rightly lubed.

Sizing in a die with a matt surface is easier than one with a mirror surface. A soft matt surface will hold case lube where a mirror smooth surface won't.

[Cole440]

Solid bench is a must! Hell I have a solid bench and sometimes I still lean on the press enough to cause some flex sizing large rifle brass for semi auto rifles... Also a good lube is invaluble...

[triggerhappy243]

I got a new set of 300 Win Mag dies so I could teach my nephew to reload. They were not polished inside and destroyed every piece of brass that entered them. Luckily, I had RCBS dies for the lessons. Lee replaced the sizing die.

Lee replaced the sizer die, but did they replace the now trashed brass?

[fguffey]

Sounds to me like you need to bolt your press to a sturdy bench, and then size your brass.

I have found isolated situations that you describe, the one problem I have never found is the one with machine gun fired cases. I have one chamber that is larger than any 30/06 machine gun chamber. If for some reason you believe you have a small base die turn the case around and then stuff (by hand) the case head into the die. If the case head can not be shoved into the die the die opening is too small in diameter or the case head is too large in diameter.

Case head too large in diameter: I have tested a few rifles that were advertised as being suspect; after firing the case head expanded .011". When fired the case head got shorter from the cup above the web to the case head, the primer pocket expanded and the to the point it would not hold a primer and the flash hole increased in diameter. The case would not fit a shell holder.

I would suggest you learn to measure the diameter of the case head and the length of the case from the datum/shoulder to the case head. And then there is case lube, I have had a difficult time making (highly recommended) some case lubes look good; when it comes to sizing difficult cases I use a no name lube, if seems to be as slick as okra.

If I can be of any help I will request you furnish the manufacturer and year/date stamped on the die.

F. Guffey