Where do all of the wildcat rifles go when owner die ?

[Jedman]

I have wondered about this a few times as I have about a half a dozen of my own and read about a lot of you that have them so there has to be thousands of them out there somewhere. I look on several of the big online gun auction and sales websites and rarely ever see any wildcat guns of any sort for sale ?
I am not looking to buy any as I have way to many guns already but just wondered if there is a market for someone's creations.
In my own case I don't have much money invested in building the guns or modifying dies or brass ect. I have never paid for a custom reamer, dies, or barrels so mine have been worth what I have in them mostly time.
What are your thoughts ?

Jedman

[drac0nic]

Since you've said it I've never seen a wildcat gun for sale really. I mean what percent out of the general population do they really comprise however? If the person was smart they'd try to ensure that the dies, brass, ammo and gun and other required stuff go as a package before they go.

[corbinace]

I just did a Gunbroker search for completed items and they had four listings. None current, that I could see.

[RustyReel]

Of course a lot of what used to be wildcats are now factory offerings, 35 Whelen, 22-250, 243 etc etc so that is one reason the "old" wildcats don't seem to be show up.

There are several cats on GB right now if you look hard enough. I usually search for Mauser Sporters and have my eye on a .25-243 one now. A quick search shows there are three .416 Taylor's listed (none cheap), so I'm sure the wildcats are out there hiding in plain sight.

[Newboy]

I wonder how many are out there that are not marked?




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[smithnframe]

Although not a wildcat.......I did find a sako vixen re-barreled to 225 Winchester at a LGS a few months back with a slight bulge in the barrel!

[Daver7]

I
I have way to many guns already
Jedman
I'm sorry, you lost me.

[15meter]

I would suspect alot are gracing the back corner of a closet, the few I've seen at gun shows are usually ridiculously over priced. People give up trying to sell them.

If it's not a complete package, gun, dies and load data it's just a pile of parts for a project of the buyer's.

[country gent]

A lot of shops don't want to deal with the wildcats and having to explain it to anyone whos looking at the rifle. I can remember when the 6PPC was a wildcat most shops wouldn't touch one when a couple manufacturers grace it Sammi specs and made it legitimate then shops started stocking selling them. Most arnt interested in a rifle that no factory ammo exsits for and no actual tested load data.

The biggest share of these rifles go to family members or friends along with any ammo or data. Load notes on a wildcat is a big plus. The ones sold go cheap and are bought to rebarrel to a standard caliber usually. I have a couple wildcats, home made die sets and data / load notes that will go to a friend that will appreciate them.

[HollowPoint]

The only gun I own that even remotely qualifies as a wildcat is an old Enfield that I rebarreled and re-chambered. I simply necked it down to a true 308/7.62 caliber/bore. Everything else stayed the same.

My concern was that none of my relatives are really that knowledgeable about guns in general and clueless when it comes to wildcat cartridges. I've made it a point to keep that particular rifle set aside with redundant notes and cautions that 303 cartridges are not to be fires from this rifle. Like many families, some of my relatives aren't really the brightest bulbs in the shed so, of the few close relatives I go shooting, hunting and fishing with I also made it a point to make this rifle known to them.

I'm sure that a 303 cast bullet shooting low doses of powder might not cause to much damage but full power loads out of this rifle in the native 303 cartridges would surely spike the pressures and possibly mean a trip to the emergency ward.

HollowPoint

[FLINTNFIRE]

I seem to end up with the orphan children , and then buy the dies and make the brass , most of mine are marked , some are not .
I cast and I reload so they are not a problem , down the road I hope my children were attentive enough to know what they are and what goes with what gun , I expect most of the wildcats and oddballs are owned by more knowledgeable shooters .

[dh2]

"I have way to many guns already "
Jedman

for starters I do not believe to many guns is even possible.
As for wild cats I have a few .338-06, 25-06AI.280Rem. AI and 22-250AI, I love to play and build them, but I do not want to get a wild cat that the cases require a lot to form the case, and I find the Die's and reamer from the start. Midway does sell most AI die sets and the 22-250 AI for it I found the die set here on swap and sell. I have die's , barrel and reamer for a 8mm-06 I found it on this sight now just not in a hurry to build it. A 7mm STW has priority on my gun work time and money.

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE= I have way to many guns already n[/QUOTE]

This is blasphemy !!:kidding:

[adcoch1]

This is blasphemy !!:kidding:

May not be blasphemy, but also isn't possible. Unless you're swimming.

Only wildcat I have at the moment is my 35 Whelan, which isn't any more wildcat than my 300 blk, but I make brass for both from other brass. I am about to embark on building a few, one just because I was sent the wrong die set in a group purchase and now have dies for a cartridge with zero load data available.

I do build dummy cartridges to persue ideas all the time though... Sure my kids will be doing a little headscratching after I pass...

[Jedman]

When I say I have way to many guns already... Right now I have probably 20 + that I bought because either the price was really good, some needed a easily made firing pin or other small part, needed the wood refinished because someone painted or slopped some awful looking finish on them and I really bought them for trading or reselling as they were just to cheap not to buy.
I don't shoot them much and when I sell a bunch of them I have money to buy a nice antique single shot which is my favorite type of rifle.
Most of the wildcats mentioned that have names most of us have heard of do nothing for me.
I have now taken a deer or antelope with all of my wildcats and they are all single shots where you can load any type bullet shape or weight and working up load data was somewhat fun and easy as I just start with a case in the same caliber or very close that holds a similar amount of powder and start low and work up looking for the most accuracy. None of my wildcats are remotely like a magnum or a cartridge that does anything better than a standard factory round. They are all made on a easy to find rimmed case and many are just right for a Marlin 336 sized action I just have not used that platform yet. I do have die sets and load data notes for all of them so my wife could sell them as a package if I die suddenly.
I would be in the market for sensible wildcats in rifles such as Remington Hepburns, Rolling Blocks,Winchester low or hi walls, Martini's, or most any quality single shot action.

Jedman

[arlon]

I think some folks just get stuck with them. I got a .357 contender barrel at a gun show. When I got home I found out it had been reamed out to 357/44 B&D. Dies cost more than the barrel did. Makes a nice paperweight..

Got a Danish Krag that had been rebarreled in 45-70, got it home and found the bolt face doesn't fit a normal 45-70, I had to turn a bunch off of the rims to get something to work. Not exactly a wildcat but a "custom" that takes special measures to shoot. Really nice rifle so it's worth the added effort. My kids will probably end up with it and stick someone else with it.

[dk17hmr]

Never thought about it. I have several wildcats, most are Ackleys but I do have a 50 Razorback which is a Remington Ultra mag cut off at the shoulder and blown out to shoot a .510 bullet.....hopefully my boys like shooting.

My dad has a couple wildcats but they aren't really wild, I assume I'll end up with those since my brother isn't into firearms.

[oldred]

"I have way too many guns already"

Must be a typo!

[Jedman]

"I have way too many guns already"

Must be a typo!
It is a typo ! I forgot I have CRS and can't remember how many I have ? I know to find some of them it takes me a week or more of searching .:groner:

Jedman

[Good Cheer]

Heh, maybe I should put out some family feelers on who would want to reform cases, cast the boolits, brew the lube, load the cartridges...
Yeah right!
:popcorn:

[Duckiller]

Lots of wild cats end up on a gun store rack that everyone looks at but rarely buy. I have a 257 Roberts A.I. Have enough brass for sons to reasonably shoot it. They may decide that they don't need a 25 caliber rifle and try to sell it. probably get less than I paid for it used. While they are fine guns. Accurate . Most people don't want them. To have a wilcat or some really old calibers you have to be really dedicated to hunting. In addition to the wildcat I have a Model 14 in 30 Rem and a Model 71 in 348 Win. If I could find a Model 99 in 303 Savage I would probable buy it. Not sure if sons or daughter will appreciate it but it would be fun and kill deer just fine. Brass on the other hand may be a problem.

[Tom W.]

I have two, and I suspect that my sons will get them.

[Deadeye Bly]

I had one and sold it. I had a 5.6X61 Vom Hoffe Express take off barrel that I put on a 98 Mauser. The Vom hoffe case head is larger in diameter than American cases so I shortened the barrel from the back end to match the head diameter of American cases. it ended up being about 55 mm long so I called it a 5.5 x 55. I made up a loading die. I used 6mm Rem cases for the rounds. It shot 70 grain .227" or .228' diameter bullets with a full charge of 4831 for a velocity of 3400-3500 fps. It was a MOA rifle and was hell on groundhogs. Here in the Shenandoah valley coyotes moved in and ate the groundhogs and houses are popping up everywhere so shooting opportunities are limited. I listed it on Gunbroker and sold it with the dies and the remainder of the bullets and loading info to a guy in Wyoming. I hope he had room to shoot it and is still using it. I enjoyed shooting that thing.

[Rich/WIS]

I avoid the wildcats, most don't do anything that a standard caliber won't do and not interested in forming cases. Would rather spend my time shooting and casting. That said I do have a Ruger #3 in 30/40 that a previous owner converted to AI and restocked to look like a stalking rifle. Only reason I bought it was I liked the looks and making cases was simple (helped I had lots of 30/40 brass on hand). I reload and cast and didn't need the extra case capacity but it doesn't keep me from making it do what I want to do with it.

I am not condemning the practice or denigrating those who do. Many of yesterday's wildcats are the ancestors of many popular commercial cartridges, think 25/06, 280 Rem, 338/06 and many of the belted magnums. For someone who enjoys the process I say life is short so do what makes you happy. Who knows, some of today's wildcats may inspire tomorrow's commercial calibers.

[skeettx]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/845554003

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/848094809

[Harter66]

I got one from an estate thought it was a 280 AI variation ..... Turns out it was a 280 B square .

Just a .302 throat now it's a 7×57 . It's a good barrel if I cut the threads off and set it back that far I could get a 280AI back in it . I could do a rebore to 30 cal and chamber it in 06' AI or 30 Gibbs .

[Texas by God]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/845554003

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/848094809People trying to recoup their investment but sadly probably won't.......

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[Drm50]

I've had 7 custom rifles built. In 60s had a 7mm mag built on RCBS specs, couple years later had it punched to 7mm Rem when it was standardized. The other six rifles were all standard cartridges.

I've found prices on Wildcats on both ends of the scale. You have guys who think they are going to recover the money they spent and so proud of gun even a tidy profit. A narrow market. First it's going to have to be a loader who is interested in that particular caliber. Second he is going to have to want it bad when price is leaning towards building a new one.

At actions I have seen many factory rifles punched or rebarrel to wildcats go for less than price of action. In fact I see beautiful customs sell cheap reguardless of cartridge.

I think a lot of them are gathering dust or have been rebarreled or punched to standard cartridges. When I was a kid the local varmit cult were buying 03s from DMC and having them barreled to 220 Swift. Barrels were stock unturned blanks and were left full diameter. A few years ago I decided to see if I could find one of these. I knew several of the owners and most had passed. Talked to several of the families and none still had the rifles. Most didn't even remember them. These rifles were built in early 50s and they just disappeared. My dad didn't have one, his 220 was a win 70. Our front porch was launching pad for evening groundhog safaris and I saw lots of these rifles the owners called Bull Guns.

[22cf45]

I inherited one from a friend which he dreamed up. He called it a 7mm A&T. Basically a 300 win mag case blown out a little in the body. I stripped the fine Marquart barrel off the receiver and barreled it up in a standard cartridge. According to his records, he only put around 40 rounds thru the barrel. It is really a shame since it is such a fine barrel, it needs to be used somehow. My gunsmith says there are several cartridges that will clean up the chamber to something more common. Maybe someone will come along who needs it.
Phil

[Three44s]

How about a 257 STW?

Does that count? LOL!

I have two nephews that are shooters and hunters. I have hopes that they get my love for guns as they are more hunter than shooter. I have some Savage bolt guns and a fair patch of barrels for them. Wildcats? Well that 257 STW plus a 338-06 and a 30 BR thrown in for laughs and giggles.

Three44s

[richhodg66]

Lots of wild cats end up on a gun store rack that everyone looks at but rarely buy. I have a 257 Roberts A.I. Have enough brass for sons to reasonably shoot it. They may decide that they don't need a 25 caliber rifle and try to sell it. probably get less than I paid for it used. While they are fine guns. Accurate . Most people don't want them. To have a wilcat or some really old calibers you have to be really dedicated to hunting. In addition to the wildcat I have a Model 14 in 30 Rem and a Model 71 in 348 Win. If I could find a Model 99 in 303 Savage I would probable buy it. Not sure if sons or daughter will appreciate it but it would be fun and kill deer just fine. Brass on the other hand may be a problem.

The .303s aren't that rare and brass is available now (PPU). After that, it loads just like anything else.

I highly doubt I'd ever build a wildcat rifle. I might buy one if it was a really cool rifle and the price was right, but I have to go along with the mind set that no wildcat could do anything a factory chambering can't do just as well.

[richhodg66]

Found this one poking around on gunbroker. Have to admit the .219 Wasp always intrigued me from a historical perspective, but I don't have the masochist tendencies to take it on.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/848629479

[Good Cheer]

These days my wilder kitties are muzzleloaders. There's so many "deer rifles" out there that with a little brain sweat you can make something fairly low cost that's fun to play with.

[KenT7021]

I never considered the 5.6x61 Vom Hofe to be a wildcat.It was a factory cartridge in Europe.I have one that I built years ago on a M98 action.I also have it's big brother,the 7x66 Vom Hofe.The only true wildcat I have is the 7x68 Askins.It's a necked down 8x68S case.

[country gent]

I think there is also a difference in cartridge terminology here that needs some defining. There are improved cartridges , a factory round can be loaded and fired in its chamber blowing the case out to the new shape. These are along the lines of the Ackley improved cartridges.

A lot of wildcats have a niche and have been made legitimate cartridges, 22-250, 7mm 08, 243 win, 25-06,338 /308, 30-378 and the likes a lot have been given legitimate status. Most were thought to improve accuracy, consistency, or velocity. Some were simply desighned to use a heavier bullet at the same velocities. Some were done to help improve case life ( 22 k hornet 218 mashburn bee) some to improve accuracy 6PPC 218 donaldson wasp. The 30-378 and 6.5.284 got their start on the 1000yd range's as long range rounds.

Then there are the obsolete cases that ammo and or cases arnt readily available but can be made from an existing case. The Donaldson wasp falls into this and the .222 rem is fast becoming.

One thing to remember with a wildcat is there may be several versions out there with the same basic name but slight differences in design. Most factory legitimized are slightly changed to aid production. When acquiring one of these rifles a chamber cast should be done to find the exact version,

[Bent Ramrod]

Finding and messing with wildcats stopped being fun when the cost of forming and loading dies went through the roof. Unless the seller can find a crank just like himself, they will never realize the costs involved. Performance has been more than covered by the plethora of factory cartridges out there (many even less rational and enduring than wildcats), so the latter have nothing to offer but more or less complicated operations to make and load the shells.

I would imagine that most of them are rechambered or rebarreled for factory cartridges. Greatbatch’s book on Pope barrels mentioned that there was a .28 caliber “Pope Special” cartridge that Harry had arrived at by necking the .32 Ideal down to 7mm caliber. It’s rare to find an original barrel now; most were rechambered to the .28-30 (many by Pope himself) to use the then more available factory shells.

I see a few single shots in things like .219 Zipper Improved and 6mm Ackley Krag that stay on the same Gun Show tables for a decade, at the same price.

[Texas by God]

I ran a 22-250 reamer into a 6.5 Jap so I wouldn't have to buy expensive brass. I wasn't satisfied with 2-1/2" groups at 100 yards so I rebarreled that 38 Arisaka to 8x57. The only wildcat I've ever had. I called it the 26- 250 lol.

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[firefly1957]

I have like others here seen a few for sale over the years some had real nice wood engraving ect. and were very high priced others never seemed to sell ? Above someone put it about right getting the right dies is all important and having new does made is expensive.

[wnc435]

As many as I can get into the gun safes. I think it is a lot of fun to work up loads, fire form brass. Another reason to cast and swage more bullets. Less time trimming or replacing brass. longer barrel life, get to use all that cheap surplus powder. When your out P-Dog hunting nobody ask to borrow ammo. Can still use std. ammo. Also leaves the ones that others aren't shooting, the looong shots. You know that you are having a successful hunt when it takes a 5 min walk to verify the hits. Can't see through the mounds yet. Just a lot of fun to play with them!

[richhodg66]

A few years ago, a guy I know who works at an LGS had a beautiful custom rifle from the 50s chambered in 7mm Gradle Express which is a 7mm wildcat made on .348 Winchester cases with the rims removed. Terrific piece of workmanship, even had a set of dies and a Balvar scope mounted up, price was around $600.

Brass would be easier now than it was when the rifle was made as it looked awfully close to the various Winchester Short Magnums and I'm pretty sure .300 WSM brass would have worked fine. Maybe I should have bought it, just couldn't see what it could do for me that other stuff I already have couldn't do as well.

[RustyReel]

Since the thread seems to have turned into a "what ya got" kind of thing instead of what happens to them, let me add that I have three. Two were by design and one by accident.

The ones by design are a .416 Taylor and a .458 American (aka .428x2). Both because I always wanted one although I have no practical use of either. Some claim the American has been standardized by the .450 Marlin but I don't agree. American brass can be made from just about any belted case (I used 7mm Rem Mag mostly) while the Marlin requires specific brass. I bet 20 years from now you won't be able to find brass to feed the Marlin but feeding the American will never be a problem. No fancy dies required for the Taylor or the Marlin.

My by accident is a .257 Roberts AI. Bought a Sears version of the Win Mod 70 and it had a bulged barrel. Saw a Mod 70 257 Rob barrel on Evilbay. When it arrived it was clearly marked and rechambered as an AI round. Screwed it on and wha-la another wildcat.

[Good Cheer]

The best reason for wildcatting has always been having a more entertaining cast boolit cartridge.

[BigEyeBob]

The .303s aren't that rare and brass is available now (PPU). After that, it loads just like anything else.

I highly doubt I'd ever build a wildcat rifle. I might buy one if it was a really cool rifle and the price was right, but I have to go along with the mind set that no wildcat could do anything a factory chambering can't do just as well.

Many wildcat cartridges built on the 303 British csse in Australia after WWII ,due to stupid laws that prevented civilians owning military caliber rifles , 22/303 (( many versions of this), 25/303 ,243/303 , 270/303 ,35/303 .I have a 25/303 ,and a 270/303 ,both built on mauser actions ,both perform well . I have the parts to build a 7.7 x 54R on a No1 MkIII which will be happening soon .I gave my Son the M70 Winchester in 243 I owned for over 40 years because I like my 25/303 so much better.Plenty of MkIII ,P14/M17, and no4 Enfields still on the market here ,that have been converted to 303 based wildcats . There is a nostalgic resurgence going on here at the moment with these Aussie wildcats , even some brand new rifles being built in the 303 based cartridges .A lot of these converted rifles come onto the market ,with the resurgence in popularity a lot are being picked up by younger shooters and being restored and used .They want to shoot the rifles that thier Uncles , Grand dads or fathers used during the 40's and 50's .

[RogerDat]

The best reason for wildcatting has always been having a more entertaining cast boolit cartridge.

I don't have one but... I have on a number of occasions gone to the effort and expense to make "just what I wanted". The value was strictly a one man market. Now it is possible that someone else might appreciate something I have done or made but it is also likely that they don't let that person out in public around people all that often so they won't be found to purchase my work for what it is "really" worth. So my heirs will be stuck with market value.

I think people have said what happens to a lot of the wildcat guns, if the firearm is a good one the process gets reversed. Chambered in some more common cartridge and is a wildcat no more. it sounds like some probably do end up as dust collectors, or safe queens. Kept because a family member or friend gave or left it to them along with a couple of boxes of ammo that will be all the ammo they are likely to see for it unless they get the same wild hair in their backside that caused someone to make it a wildcat in the first place. In which case they may decide while nice the way uncle Charlie had it if it was chambered in my own wild idea of best cartridge ever it would be perfect.

Like I said re-chambered by the next owner seems like the overwhelming fate.

Don't have that itch myself, figure folks that do provide lots of interesting information. Just as long as they are not doing a Bubba number to Enfield stocks I say go for it if it makes you happy and doesn't blow up. If it does blow up hopefully no one is hurt and you will post pictures.

[Jedman]

I did have a wildcat rifle that I built with a 303 British barrel then later reamed it back to be a 303 British.
It was a handi rifle and now the barrel alone is worth much more than I had in the whole project.

Jedman

[retread]

Found this one poking around on gunbroker. Have to admit the .219 Wasp always intrigued me from a historical perspective, but I don't have the masochist tendencies to take it on.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/848629479

What an ugly stock!!

[richhodg66]

What an ugly stock!!

Very specialized bench rest rifle, not meant to look pretty.

[Tripplebeards]

My guess is when the get sold or traded off and they’r rebarreled to common caliber again.

[dverna]

I avoid the wildcats, most don't do anything that a standard caliber won't do and not interested in forming cases. Would rather spend my time shooting and casting. That said I do have a Ruger #3 in 30/40 that a previous owner converted to AI and restocked to look like a stalking rifle. Only reason I bought it was I liked the looks and making cases was simple (helped I had lots of 30/40 brass on hand). I reload and cast and didn't need the extra case capacity but it doesn't keep me from making it do what I want to do with it.

I am not condemning the practice or denigrating those who do. Many of yesterday's wildcats are the ancestors of many popular commercial cartridges, think 25/06, 280 Rem, 338/06 and many of the belted magnums. For someone who enjoys the process I say life is short so do what makes you happy. Who knows, some of today's wildcats may inspire tomorrow's commercial calibers.

I am pretty much of the same opinion. I used to crave having a couple until reality set in. Just not worth the effort or cost once you apply some logic and rationale to the subject. I went through a critical evaluation of my "needs" (not wants) a few years ago. From dozens of calibers and rifles I whittled it down to four... Everything I needed in a rifle could be done with the .223, .30/30, .308 and .300 WinMag. Now, 8-10 years later I am thinking about ditching the .300 WinMag. Have never used it and still waiting to draw an elk tag. Once I get my elk, I will have no use for it.

But my needs are simple and I am getting older.

[Tripplebeards]

I agree. If I want another 100 FPS I’ll change calibers. Too much screwing around IMO.

[Alstep]

A friend had a 243 Ackley built on a Mauser 98 he wanted to part with. Really nice piece of workmanship. I passed on it for all the reasons already given. Nobody expressed any interest. He finally sold it for $200 with dies. Unless it's something made by a famous gunsmith like Harry Pope, it's barely worth the price of it's parts.

[Wayne Smith]

I donno, I'm enjoying my Encore 25 Krag AI 40degree quite a bit. I wanted a quarter bore, single shot, and a rimmed cartridge. I'm old enough that, since my boys aren't into reloading, I'll pass this one on to Arisaka99 since his wife loves the 45-70 barrel on it.

[John Taylor]

Found this one poking around on gunbroker. Have to admit the .219 Wasp always intrigued me from a historical perspective, but I don't have the masochist tendencies to take it on.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/848629479

Just picked up a chamber reamer for the 219 wasp. Had a little trouble with the neck size and called PTG. Found out there are 6 different 219 wasp chambers.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My LGS knows that I have a "soft spot" for rifles in weird and wonderful chamberings. I get them for a very good price BUT sometimes you fall. I bought a Martini 218 Mashburn Bee with a 4x Pecar scope for $AU180 and ordered a set of RCBS dies. They came in at $185! It has a 1:16" twist so bullet design is critical. Recently Speer were selling a little 35gn 'Armageddon' a perfect match. Accuracy is tops, velocity is over 3000fps and I'm a very happy camper!

I have lots of other wildcats, 303 Epps Improved, again it was on the dealers shelf for near 2 years before I purchased, A Martini Cadet in 222/17Rimmed sat on the shelf for near 3 years. I bought it with dies and scope for just $400 as he said he was going to break it down to parts.

There in lies, I believe, the fate of many wildcats, they are more saleable as gun parts and components no matter what action they are built upon.


Forming 218 Mashburn from 32/20 cases

https://i.imgur.com/6AFUHJM.jpg

303 Epps Improved (center)

https://i.imgur.com/pE0MzNQ.jpg

[murf205]

My LGS knows that I have a "soft spot" for rifles in weird and wonderful chamberings. I get them for a very good price BUT sometimes you fall. I bought a Martini 218 Mashburn Bee with a 4x Pecar scope for $AU180 and ordered a set of RCBS dies. They came in at $185! It has a 1:16" twist so bullet design is critical. Recently Speer were selling a little 35gn 'Armageddon' a perfect match. Accuracy is tops, velocity is over 3000fps and I'm a very happy camper!

I have lots of other wildcats, 303 Epps Improved, again it was on the dealers shelf for near 2 years before I purchased, A Martini Cadet in 222/17Rimmed sat on the shelf for near 3 years. I bought it with dies and scope for just $400 as he said he was going to break it down to parts.

There in lies, I believe, the fate of many wildcats, they are more saleable as gun parts and components no matter what action they are built upon.


Forming 218 Mashburn from 32/20 cases

https://i.imgur.com/6AFUHJM.jpg

303 Epps Improved (center)

https://i.imgur.com/pE0MzNQ.jpg

There will always be people like us that want to try something different even though we know in our hearts that it is probably more trouble than it is worth, but it IS a lesson in experimentation after all. One of my long time friends and shooting buds recently passed away and they liquidated his estate by auction. He had some really nice guns and some were a work in progress. A few of his rifles were re barrelled but un marked. Those sold too but just didn't bring top dollar, so there was somebody out there that was willing to do a chamber cast and gamble on the caliber.

[303Guy]

I have a 25/303 Sportco on a Lithgow SMLE action with a long skinny SMLE profile barrel. Amazingly accurate with a small muzzle blast suppressor mounted, with 87gr bullets. It was an 'official' production wildcat made by simply necking down a 303 Brit. That rifle and cartridge has more appeal to me than a modern 243 Winchester. Give me a 25/303 in a Handi rifle and I would over the moon!

A wildcat that interests me is a 303/30-40. Or simply, a long necked 303 Brit using a 30-40 case - for cast boolits (in a Handi rifle). Actually, make that a 35-40 and I'll call it good.

[murf205]

Do you have a gunsmith in New Zealand that can rebore a barrel for you? If you found a 308 Win Handi Rifle it would be easy to rebore to 358 Win and load it down to 35-40 levels, plus brass is easier to come by.

[bdicki]

I have an 8mm-06 that I like very much. The wife understands what it is if something happens to me. She worked in a gun shop so has contacts that will help her out.

[bdicki]

That 25-07 looks interesting.

[Good Cheer]

I'd thought maybe to have a 45-70 Marlin lever gun rebarreled but nah, will just stick with the single shot.
254459

[444ttd]

I have a 25/303 Sportco on a Lithgow SMLE action with a long skinny SMLE profile barrel. Amazingly accurate with a small muzzle blast suppressor mounted, with 87gr bullets. It was an 'official' production wildcat made by simply necking down a 303 Brit. That rifle and cartridge has more appeal to me than a modern 243 Winchester. Give me a 25/303 in a Handi rifle and I would over the moon!

A wildcat that interests me is a 303/30-40. Or simply, a long necked 303 Brit using a 30-40 case - for cast boolits (in a Handi rifle). Actually, make that a 35-40 and I'll call it good.

here in the US, go to JES Reboring. he has does a 35/40 krag. in NZ, i don't know.

i have a 35/30 (JES Reboring) in win m94 with a williams fp sight, that i just luv. 200gr rcbs fn gc with 20.0gr of 2400/dacron (1726fps) is my deer/black bear load.

i don't if it is a wildcat, but i have a 20 vartarg(221 rem fireball) in a tc encore with a 23" MGM barrel. a 32gr hornady vmax with 18.7gr of rel7 and it is a one hole group. .1 - .2" at 100 yards(5 shots/benched). nowadays its a 34gr(midsouth/midway) hp with 18.5gr of rel7 and while its not a 1 holer, it goes .3 -.5" at 100 yards(5 shots/benched). my 20vt is around a 300-350 yards rifle. in the areas i hunt, 200 yards is the maximum. its my groundhog, fox, 'yote, soda can, rock rifle.

the last picture i was fireforming my loads and it is a 200 yard target.

[JSH]

There are three shops fairly close to me. Up until about 15 years ago I would receive a call fairly often for wildcat rifles of various makes models and forms. I bought some pretty nice rifles for cheap, or I thought. All of the tinkering and figuring I would have to do on some of them it just wasn’t worth it anymore.

Looked at one a while ago. Was told it was a 224 Clark. Happened to have some fired brass from one. It wasn’t a Clark nor a 22TTH. No dies,notes,ammo or anything with it. Offer I made was basically for the action, fellow acted like I insulted him. His idea of custom and mine were miles apart.
Lol, I have enough projects.

[Good Cheer]

The other day was thinking again about a rifle re-do and dang it (must have been the influence of this thread) I thought about who it would be left to.
:rolleyes:

[lightman]

Custom rifles and wildcats are more valuable to the owners than to other shooters. Some of the value depends on the caliber. I only have 2 wildcats, a 22-250AI and a 357 Herrett. The 22-250AI is a Remington 700 with a custom barrel and the chamber was cut from the beginning to be AI. The Herrett is a Contender barrel so its a lesser value to deal with. The 22-250AI is marked and the Herrett barrel is factory and also is marked.

Wildcats are fun to play with, just don't expect to come out very well financially.

[fiberoptik]

"I have way too many guns already"

Must be a typo!

So how many IS too many??
When we moved, wifey & daughter were counting them & said,”You have 25 guns!!!” I thought to myself, ”you missed a few…!”


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[fiberoptik]

What an ugly stock!!

FuuuUgly!! Seen better 2x4’s


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[TRX]

A friend bought a very nice '98K Mauser sporter, with an aftermarket barrel marked "7mm". When it failed to accept a 7x57 he called me for help.

In the end, we determined that the "7mm" barrel was .25 caliber, but though the bolt would accept a .25-06, the bolt wouldn't close on it. We figured it was one of the inexpensive "Adams & Bennett" barrels Midway used to sell short-chambered. A few turns of a .25-06 reamer fixed it up.

[dtknowles]

I only really have one wildcat. It is a original Remington Hepburn action with a new barrel and stocks in 25 Krag AI.

With dies and brass, no big deal for any competent reloader.

Tim

[Outpost75]

My plan is to gift my wildcats to people who know what they are, so they will get the dies and kit which goes with them, and hopefully make plans do accomplish this before my eventual demise.

[Jedman]

My plan is to gift my wildcats to people who know what they are, so they will get the dies and kit which goes with them, and hopefully make plans do accomplish this before my eventual demise.

That's also my plan !

Jedman

[Rich/WIS]

Never been into wildcat cartridges, but lucked into a scoped Ruger #3 that had been rechambered from 30/40 to 30/40AI at a reasonable price. Since the only forming required was to shoot regular 30/40 to get brass I jumped on it as I had a good stash of brass for my Krag. I normally neck size only but decided to get a set of dies for when a full resize was needed. Dies were available from CH but had to send two fired cases as they had four drawings for the case. Surprise, mine did not match any of the drawings they had but they suggested dies for a round called 30/40 Lambert that would work if backed off .025 from the shell holder, $80 later had dies. Only bad on mine is the blowing out of the case also shortened the neck to about the same length as the neck on a 30/06, shorter than I would like for cast but still adequate for shorter bullets like the 311291. Still watch the various forum/auction sites for a take off 30/40 barrel but if one doesn't turn up can live with the rifle as is.

[jonp]

You know, I never thought about it. I just assumed they were sold at auction or gunshows or something but I can't remember ever seeing one in a wildcat caliber or conversion. I'm not talking about a 338-06 or 25-06, although I can't remember the last time I saw one of those, but something a person put together for a reason or just messing around. Huh...

[Shawlerbrook]

Even at 62, when I want a custom or wildcat rifle, the last thing I think about is what will happen to it when I’m gone.

[gnoahhh]

With no heirs (I'm the last of the bloodline) I hope to heck that I have a chance to see that all my odd ball stuff (which is mostly what I own) is gifted to deserving parties as well as the kit with which to manage them. Barring that, I guess I won't care because I'll be dead. I'll leave word to throw my doors open and advertise in the "oddball shooting community" to come and help yourselves. My way of guaranteeing that a lot of other poor slobs are entertained/vexed as thoroughly as I have been. (But y'all can't have my Winchester M54 .22 K-Hornet with Targetspot scope. I'm taking that one with me.)

[popper]

Just thinking and you guy have the experience, how about a 30/30 shortened to 300BO length with a 30/30 length neck? 9mm or 30 cal. sized? Anybody done anything like that?

[bruce drake]

With no heirs (I'm the last of the bloodline) I hope to heck that I have a chance to see that all my odd ball stuff (which is mostly what I own) is gifted to deserving parties as well as the kit with which to manage them. Barring that, I guess I won't care because I'll be dead. I'll leave word to throw my doors open and advertise in the "oddball shooting community" to come and help yourselves. My way of guaranteeing that a lot of other poor slobs are entertained/vexed as thoroughly as I have been. (But y'all can't have my Winchester M54 .22 K-Hornet with Targetspot scope. I'm taking that one with me.)

I'd adopt you as my 3rd dad... ;)

[Good Cheer]

Just thinking and you guy have the experience, how about a 30/30 shortened to 300BO length with a 30/30 length neck? 9mm or 30 cal. sized? Anybody done anything like that?

Maybe like a .30 Herret wih the neck left a little longer?

Once upon a time I wanted to try a .375 (chopped off 30-30 cases) in a Ruger Security Six but let a gun smith talk me out of it.

[KCSO]

I have a fellow now who is 96 and getting out of shooting. We are selling his guns and unfortunately the wildcats are selling slow and cheap. A custom T/C in 321 Bull Schutzen with dies and cases and bullet mould. No Bids. A Browning 1885 in 40 82 Match with MVA sights 900 and no takers yet. If you are looking to leave money for the family a wildcat is not the way to go.

[popper]

Chopped the neck off and ran through a 9mm die - rimmed 358 straight wall pigmy with more case capacity (~75% of 30/30) than 350 legion. Actually as I didn't trim the mouth it went in the die crooked so barely a shoulder on one side only. Effectively same 'straight wall' as the legion. 358 or 357 barrel?

[willk]

Both XP-100’s. One in 7TCU (which was offered by Thompson Center) and a 300 Whisper Clone. (Now virtually identical to the 300 Blackout.). All of our other custom XP’s and the one Savage Striker were chambered in standard rounds though they often differed in barrel twists

[Ozark Howler]

I had a 257 Roberts Ackley Improved built on a commercial 98 action and Bishop stock, built by Harry McGowen himself in the late 60's. I think I paid about $300 at the time and used it for many years, when I went to sell it I could not find anyone that wanted it, eventually I removed the barrel and sold the action and stock separately, and made a little more than I initially paid for it.

[Baltimoreed]

259006
259008
I had a .17-222 in a beautiful Martini action and stock. The loudest thing I’ve ever owned. Played with it for awhile but traded it off. Now I’ve got a .310/.32-20 martini cadet, don’t know if you would call this a wildcat, it’s not a .310 cadet anymore or a 32-20. I form .32-20 brass using .30 carbine dies and .321 bullets. It’s a real sweetheart and I enjoy shooting it a lot. Don’t plan or getting rid of this one. As to the op’s question, successful ones become factory, .300 blkout for example while the rest wind up in the back of someones safe or are rebarreled back to a common caliber after the new owner got a really great deal on a ‘project’ rifle at the estate sale.

[Earlwb]

I figure that when I die, then it won't matter anymore what my family does with my guns. Keep em, sell em, dispose of them. That is their problem then. Of course with thje current corona virus adventures, they may become much more militant though.

[Drm50]

I was at auction where an estate was being sold. A good many guns and several wildcats, all in varmit type BA rifles. The 700 Rems were bringing $400 average, all older BDLs. The wildcats that were on 98 actions all with bull barrels averaged $200. Less than the actions and triggers were worth. It is very true customs and wildcats are not going to get your money back.

[C. Latch]

When my grandfather died the family was in turmoil and while I did end up with a few things, there were several I would have loved to have gotten - would have happily paid for - that vanished. Long story that I won't retell here.

One, in particular, was a small-ring(?) 98 Mauser in 7x57 Ackley that had the barrel turned down to a light sporter contour and was stocked with a pretty straight-combed classic stock and some sort of aftermarket trigger. It was as fine an example of the post-WWII sporterization of Mausers as you could have asked for, and the grain of the stock was gorgeous.

I don't know where it went. I suspect it's still floating around north Mississippi and I'd probably pay more than it was worth to get it back.

[frkelly74]

I have a 6.5 jap that was rechambered to 6.5X257 roberts. It is pretty nice except the front sight is home made from a block of steel and a nickle soldered together. I got it because it was not a standard chambering and I wanted to play with something non standard. That itch is and has been well and truly scratched. I will probably offer it someplace like here with dies and some brass at some point. It is fun and accurate but I have to be careful not shoot 6.5X55 ammo in it.

[Patrick400xx]

Every now and again I’ll see an older rifle that’s wildcatted at the local gunshow. Usually they are so expensive I can’t justify the chance on something that’s maybe shot out. I do have one 22-243 Rayhill Rocket it’s a lot of fun. I hope the kids are interested so I have someone to leave it to.

[justashooter]

IIRC you can shoot base ammo in ackley improved chambers with no ill effect, like 7x57 in a 7x57 imp chamber.

[FrankG]

IIRC you can shoot base ammo in ackley improved chambers with no ill effect, like 7x57 in a 7x57 imp chamber.

True to some extent . Not all reamers were always cut to same dimensions for same cartridge designation . It used to be deep dark secrets with gunsmiths !

[Ballard]

If they are Wildcats built on 1885 Winchesters, they usually end up at my house!

[j4cub]

I only have a couple, a .357 Herrett Contender barrel that I used for IHMSA and a XP-100 that was rechambered in 7mm IHMSA. Always liked the .357 Herrett.

[country gent]

With no Saami standard for a wildcat round, every reamer ground can be different under the same designation. Everyone has their idea of what works best and whats needed. several wildcats Ive seen some what recently were the 30-378 there were 7 or 8 versions before weatherby took it up as a factory round. The 6.5 X 284 also had a lot of versions before being picked up by the factorizes. There were many versions of the 6.5 creed moor and 300 BO also, before it was settled out. This is why its so important to make a cast of a wildcat or custom chamber. Just to make sure what you have as to version, throat leade.

[Ed K]

Not that I'm looking to sell but this thread made me think about it. Have an Encore barrel chambered in 307EDKR. How long would that take to that sell?

[No_1]

Not that I'm looking to sell but this thread made me think about it. Have an Encore barrel chambered in 307EDKR. How long would that take to that sell?


Not the 307EDKR? :kidding:

What’s the story behind that one?

[Ed K]

What’s the story behind that one?

As has often been said given the number and variety of SAAMI recognized cartridges there is really no need for wildcats in this day and age. OK, with that in mind we on this forum have to admit spending a lot of time and energy doing things that 98% of the population either would (1) never even recognize the need for or (2) just go to the store and buy it if they could or (3) go without if they couldn't. So with that in mind:

Was pretty well into the Contender platform and definitely preferred a rimmed case (bear in mind we're not claiming rimless cartridges are less accurate, just a preference in break-opens). As some point most Contender shooters eye the Encore platform for its' increased potential in power. However most of the bottlenecked rounds giving that advantage do not have a rim. Really wasn't looking for anything in the way of power over and above a 308 which is a nice, balanced round.

Around the same time a local custom TC barrel maker (On Target Technologies LLC) opened shop and a friendship was struck with the owner. Mike holds a patent on an EDM chambering method as well as he was involved in trademarking a cartridge configuration with a radius at the shoulder-neck transition (OTTR). We put our heads together and came up with the 307EDKR:

Parent is a 308 based round
Win 307 brass used for its' rim and thicker walls/heavy weight
Case body blown out straight in the Ackley style
Neck bears the trademarked OTTR radius
Throated for a 165gr boat tail bullet
16-1/4" barrel for pistol or carbine use
Built on a fluted special twist Pac-Nor SS super match blank



Keeping in mind this was at least as much an R&D/Development effort as it was a means to arrive at an end the results are nonetheless worthwhile:

Performance is great(power/accuracy)
The blown out walls roughly offset the reduced volume of the 307 relative to the 308.
Case life is fantastic (no doubt aided by Mike's perfectly matched custom dies)
Properly headspaces factory 308 ammo - all that's required is switching extractors.


As to whether the Weatherby-ish OTTR offers an improvement, it would take more controlled experimentation than this shooter is capable of to prove one way or the other. Ultimately the collaboration was enjoyable and while the end result is practical the path getting there certainly was not - but fun! It's personalized to the degree selling doesn't ever enter into the mind...

[1hole]

Have an Encore barrel chambered in 307EDKR. How long would that take to that sell?

Don't know if there's standard time limit to sale things like that.

It could go overnight if you find a buyer that quickly. ??

[vonfilm]

Many years ago I found a nice custom pre-war Winchester Model 70 custom rifle chambered for something called the .284 Bennet Magnum at my local gun shop. It was in great condition and very inexpensive. It was so cheap I could not pass it up. I could never find much information on the .284 Bennet Magnum, so I had it rechambered for the 7mm Remington Magnum. It turned out to be a tack driver and I killed several deer with it.