adjusting for fixed sights on single action revolvers

[chuck40219]

My 357/38 special gun shoots about 10 to 12 inches high at 25 yds and a little off to the left. The left error may be me or the gun, it does not matter as I only use the gun for cas. But the over shooting is a problem for me.
I have read on the evertrusty web about a cure for this. The cure is to load a lighter boolit to a higher speed. This is said to reduce time in barrel, which reduces muzzle jump. Before I go forth looking for lighter boolits or another mould, does this work to bring impact up 6 to 10 inches?

Chuck40219

[country gent]

What is the sight radius? Make and model of gun? It might be easier to build up the front sight a little to cero it out.

[40-82 hiker]

I have built up the front sight on a pistol and a rifle and it is not hard to do. If you are happy with the load you are shooting, building up the front sight as country gent suggested is a fair way to go. You could do the math and then build up the front sight a little more, so you can file it down at the range with a fine file. I used JB weld, but there may be better compounds to use. Probably not a good idea if it a very valuable/collectable revolver. I made a new front sight for my 1884 trapdoor, and some years later changed loads, requiring a taller front sight. Rather than make a new front sight, I just built it up, then filed that down to the exact height I was needing while at the range. Really nothing to it...

Edit: It would really help to know the sight radius, however, as it can make a difference on the approach to take.

[Kenstone]

My 357/38 special gun shoots about 10 to 12 inches high at 25 yds , does this work to bring impact up 6 to 10 inches?

Chuck40219
Conflicting statements right there...

Before investing in a mold/etc, I suggest you try a faster burning powder with the same bullet.
That has worked for me in the past, switched from unique to bullseye.
If that doesn't do it, then try a lighter bullet but buy some 1st, before buying that mold.
That's what I'd do,
:|

[trapper9260]

If you have more then one powder that will work for the data you have for that boolit .Load 5 of each powder you got the data on for that boolit at the start load and see what one will group the best and then work on that one . Just a idea to give .That is what I do when I run test rounds for a boolit . The gun tells me what it likes the best . Then go from there.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Not knowing some of the important information like the make, model, barrel length of the handgun; nevertheless the "time in barrel" statement is true, hotter loads will shoot lower, and a 6 inch difference at 25 yards is possible. Many law enforcement officer found this to be true back in the '60s and '70s when their revolvers were zeroed with 148 gr. midrange wadcutter loads for practice, but when they fired +P+ 110 gr. duty ammunition there was just about a 6 inch difference at 25 yds., the duty ammo shooting lower.

[Outpost75]

Before you start modifying the gun, if the gun shoots high, try a lighter bullet and also a lighter load.

For SASS you want a powder puff anyway. About 3 grains of Trail Boss with 110-grain should work.

[chuck40219]

More info:
Heritage Rough Rider 357Mag/38
Barrel 4.75"

40-82 Hiker: the gun is far from being valuable or collectable. It is valuable to me though, limited budget fellow here.

Kenstone: Conflicting statement, yep really do not need more hight. Need a downward direction.

Trapper9260: I can get 5 or 6 different powders to try.

Does Gebirgsjager: The make is listed above. Thank you for the confirmation that hotter load and lighter boolet will work. Will try one thing at a time.

Outpost75: load is 3 grs. Trail boss, 158 grain rnfp in a 38 special case.

Hope this gives you guys enough info.

Chuck40219

[country gent]

Chuck40219,

If you hitting high you need a taller front sight to lower impact. the front sight moves in reverse of impact. Up is down left is right. Barrel length sight radius and distance determine how much. The formula I use is error" x sight radius" / range". So in your case ( with a guess as to sight radius) 12" X 9" = 108 / 900 = .120 added to height to zero. Or roughly .010 per inch. this is assuming your distance between sights is 9" longrt or shorter will change the results

[Texas by God]

Based on my Heritage experience, I would shoot it from a rest and see if it will even shoot a group first. My 22 caliber Rough Rider would not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[EDG]

Yes it works but just use a heavier load if you can. The higher velocity will make it shoot lower. If that does not work a lighter bullet may be needed.


My 357/38 special gun shoots about 10 to 12 inches high at 25 yds and a little off to the left. The left error may be me or the gun, it does not matter as I only use the gun for cas. But the over shooting is a problem for me.
I have read on the evertrusty web about a cure for this. The cure is to load a lighter boolit to a higher speed. This is said to reduce time in barrel, which reduces muzzle jump. Before I go forth looking for lighter boolits or another mould, does this work to bring impact up 6 to 10 inches?

Chuck40219

[00buck]

Are you shooting right or left handed or two hands?

Also you’re shooting two revolvers .. in Cas

Correct?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Generally slow moving boolits hit higher than faster boolits do and heavier boolits hit higher than lighter boolits.

Another way to lower the point of impact on is to move your target back a distance.

[Todd N.]

Have you thought about lowering the v-notch in the rear sight? A few moments with a triangular file as you practice (but shooting from sandbags to remove operator error)...

[Drm50]

If you are talking about a 38 service type revolver with notch in frame for sight and you are 6" at practical 38 ranges front sight would be best bet. Lighter bullet may be achieved but at ranges you would shoot that type of gun I doubt you would get 6". I don't buy into the time of bullet in barrel theory. To me it's a function of Line of Sight, Line of bore and the ballistic path of the bullet. The only handgun of fixed service type that I was able to print with bullet weight and powder load is a Colt NS 455. It shot about 3" high at 50' but dead on for line. I had to use a heavier bullet and slow it down to get it to point of aim. Gun only shot about 650fps with 260gr bullet.
Now 285gr and probably under 600fps. It's a range toy anyway so I don't care about killing power.
As for windage you can bend sight a little with lead hammer. I guess it works but guns with bent fronts drive me nuts. I have one and it shoots ok but still bothers me. I didnt bend it and wouldn't attempt it on a good gun.

[Todd N.]

Ok, now I see that it's a Vaquero or SAA type revolver with a sighting trough in the top strap.

A. Change your load so it shoots to point of aim at 25 yards

B. Find the distance that your chosen load shoots to POA, and work up a range adjustment table like rifle shooters do

C. Have a local gunsmith replace the front sight and tune your gun to one load at one distance

[Froogal]

I will suggest a thorough inspection and cleaning of the bore. Any kind of lead deposits or other fouling can lead to much frustration. I speak from experience and I always clean my guns after an outing at the range, but somehow I missed seeing something.

[chuck40219]

Thanks to all who have responded. I have a little time tomorrow for a range visit. Will shoot up some loads in a different revolver for practice. Will then have some empty cases to start some trial and error loads to see if I can get the impacts lower with lower boolit weight and higher power charges.

Need to empty some 45-70 cases also. Need to burn some powder for my mental health.

Still looking for more info on this topic, so keep the commits coming.

chuck40219

[edp2k]

Note sure what make of revolver you have, besides it being fixed sight.

One thing to keep in mind, and some people don't believe it, is that, if your forcing cone
(i.e. the tapered cone cut on the rear end of your barrel, just forward of the barrel/cylinder gap),
is off, then the bullets impact on target will likely be off, either vertically, horizontally, or both.
Frequently its significantly off target, sometimes 4 or 5 inches at 25 yds.
By the forcing cone being "off" I mean "not true/concentric with the bore".

Sometimes it is obviously off with a visual inspection, sometimes it looks ok, but I have seen cases where it looks ok but truing it up
makes a major difference in accuracy and matching POA to POI.

This is very common on Italian made colt SAA clones and can also been seen on rugers, s&w, etc.
If that is the case, then the solution is to have your forcing cone re-cut/trued up.
This can be done by a competent revolver smith (I know, tough to find a good one you trust today).

The other option is to buy a forcing cone cutter kits from Brownells.
The sell several kits, one is one-size-fits-all-calibers-and-makes and several kits are caliber specific and make specific.
The reason there are make specific cutters is that some manufacturer use different angles on their forcing cones vs. other manufacturers,
and sometimes a manufacturer uses a different cone angle on different calibers.

Go to Brownells website, do a search, and read their "specs" tab and "docs" tab, the instruction sheets for the kits are downloadable in a pdf.
You don't have to take much of a cut, make a light cut, remove the cutter to see if its now even, and if not take another lite cut.

In the past, I have had several revolvers forcing cones trued up and it made a heck of a difference, moving the POI several inches to now line up with POA.

The cost of the smaller kits is probably equal to the cost of having a smith do it, and if you do it yourself you don't have to worry about a smith screwing it up.
When you are done you could always sell the kit in the S&S board here and recoup your money.

[Jtarm]

10-12” is a lot to overcome with a load change, unless you’re shooting 200-grain loads at 600 FPS and switch to lightweight magnums.

First, find the load you want to use and see where it’s printing. Shoot a whole lot of groups till you know point of impact is consistent.

Once you’ve done that, you can start to regulate the sights.

I don’t know CAS but 25 yards sounds awfully long for an action game. I would think you’d be better off with a closer zero, like 10-15.

I liked 40-82s idea because it’s reversible.
I’ve heard of squeezing a front sight blade in a vise to make it taller, but I’d leave that to someone who really knows what they’re doing.

[P Flados]

I find power level POI changes are much less than POI changes with bullet changes. Light weight guns shift more than heavier guns.

With a 158 shooting high, going to light (110 - 125) can move point of impact down quite a bit in a small sized gun.

My Ruger LCRx shoots 158s with the back sight in the middle of the adjustable range. With low recoil 110 gr loads, the sight is at the very top.

With my boy's Dan Wesson 6" 357, POI shift is much less.

It is worth a try since 110 gr loads are probably pretty good for the application. However, your gun is probably too heavy to shift as much as you want.