Percussion revolver cylinder chamber measuring?

[Kev18]

How could I measure my chambers in my repro 1858 cylinder? They look small? Should I smash a lead ball in there and beat it out or is there an easier way to do it thats going over my head?
How tight are the balls supposed to be in the cylinder? The repro cylinder is alot tighter then my original. Im guessing like all holes, one that has been used for quite some time is alot looser then a fresh new one. :razz: :kidding:

[clodhopper]

Pin gages. you probably don't have a set. Not really cheap but very useful.
https://www.amazon.com/HFS-0-251-0-500-CLASS-STEEL-MINUS/dp/B00UCQO1UM?ref_=Oct_BSellerC_401593011_1&pf_rd_p=4415c3ad-9843-536e-b933-ea3956ea4ac0&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=401593011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=36QKCKV4XYYZ4Z4DKK3V&pf_rd_r=36QKCKV4XYYZ4Z4DKK3V&pf_rd_p=4415c3ad-9843-536e-b933-ea3956ea4ac0

[Kev18]

Pin gages. you probably don't have a set. Not really cheap but very useful.
https://www.amazon.com/HFS-0-251-0-500-CLASS-STEEL-MINUS/dp/B00UCQO1UM?ref_=Oct_BSellerC_401593011_1&pf_rd_p=4415c3ad-9843-536e-b933-ea3956ea4ac0&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=401593011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=36QKCKV4XYYZ4Z4DKK3V&pf_rd_r=36QKCKV4XYYZ4Z4DKK3V&pf_rd_p=4415c3ad-9843-536e-b933-ea3956ea4ac0

Didnt even know these existed.

[indian joe]

Didnt even know these existed.

cheap digital caliper will get you close enough if you careful how you use it

[Battis]

Keep in mind that the chamber mouths might have been chamfered (beveled). Do you have any .451 roundballs?

[jdfoxinc]

Repro revolver chambers are usually. 450. Originals were larger.

[KCSO]

For what you need bullets of known diameter will get you close. A 451 452 and a 454 will tell you what size ball you need. You are just going to put in a ball that shaves a ring of lead if you want more accurate than that you wil probably want a better barrel matched to the cylinder. The standard barrels should put you in the 3 inch or so range at 25 yards. A custom barrel will cut one ragged hole.

[Kev18]

Well it's a navy model so it isn't .45. But I guess il measure it with a ball. I use .375 ball diameter.

[pietro]

How could I measure my chambers in my repro 1858 cylinder ?

They look small ?

The repro cylinder is alot tighter then my original.




Could it be a .36cal instead of a .44cal ?

If it is a .44cal, then I wouldn't fret about a tight fit, because it's best to shave a ring of lead off the ball during seating.

Better accuracy & it seals the front of the chamber.





.

[Kev18]

Turns out that they are just right. They are only tight at the mouth. I shave a small lead ring as they go in.

[Battis]

I keep thinking that your Remington is a .44. I have quite a few antiques but I don't have a .36 Remington (well, I do have a Remington Beals .36) and I can't remember seeing or handling one. FLAYDERMANS GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS says that there were 122,000 New Model .44s made, but only 28,000 Navy .36. They're not rare, but not that common.

[Kev18]

I keep thinking that your Remington is a .44. I have quite a few antiques but I don't have a .36 Remington (well, I do have a Remington Beals .36) and I can't remember seeing or handling one. FLAYDERMANS GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICAN FIREARMS says that there were 122,000 New Model .44s made, but only 28,000 Navy .36. They're not rare, but not that common.

Mine isnt collector grade. The owner before the one I bought it from trimmed the original cylinder down for some reason... I just got some replacement parts. They are pietta so I had to do alot of trimming. I have a new hammer and hand. Cylinder rotates perfectly and action works great. Except now I have my original broken bolt/cylidner stop in the gun since I broke the new one trimming it. It was massive and had an odd shape. I will order an original replica. But it works flawlessly now. Im sad that my bolt is broken:/ I welded it but I want a fresh one.

[Battis]

Very few of mine are near collector's grade, but they're still cool to have. One is what I'd call a relic - missing most of its parts.

[yeahbub]

I vote for using a pin gage set as the easiest method to determine chamber diameter. Some minor variation in chamber diameter is not uncommon. It's particularly noticeable when ball diameter is not particularly oversize for the larger chamber. The difference in effort for the smaller chamber will be noticeable.

My navy caliber Pietta 1858 has .367 chambers. Seems a lot to expect that a ball would obturate to .375, which is groove depth. That's .008 expansion. The most accurate projectile I've found is a 158gr Lee RNFP which casts .358 out of soft lead. With the heel band sized .356 and paper patched to .370 on the forward bands, the PP'd heel band slips into the chambers easily and they press fit firmly without tearing the paper. I did polish the corner on the chamber mouths with fine emery cloth to put a tiny radius on each, just so it isn't sharp and likely to cut the paper patch. RB's and heeled boolits cut a little less of a lead ring and swage in just a bit tighter that way.

[Kev18]

The gun seems to work fine, except now I need to figure alittle problem out. The original cylinder rod thing... the rod that the cylinder spins on. Is a little small in diameter. So the cylinder sags aLittle forward. I would need figure something out to take out the loose.

[Battis]

What about aluminum foil tape? I use it for different projects.

[Kev18]

What about aluminum foil tape? I use it for different projects.

Il try it! Good idea. I have some I think.

[onelight]

Here is the perfect range wear for test firing that rascal.
252984

[blackbahart]

more correct way to resolve the issue is to bore the existing pin hole and make a bushing to fit the old pin as taping up the pin it will probably not go back into the hole in the frame .

running a tap into the hole to push up some metal to bush the hole will be a more reasonable measure to insure the chamber stays aligned than tape ...Seen a few of these antiques sold up here with no disclosure of the things done to them

[onelight]

more correct way to resolve the issue is to bore the existing pin hole and make a bushing to fit the old pin as taping up the pin it will probably not go back into the hole in the frame .

running a tap into the hole to push up some metal to bush the hole will be a more reasonable measure to insure the chamber stays aligned than tape ...Seen a few of these antiques sold up here with no disclosure of the things done to them
Very good advice, tape ( not real sure how you would put it on and get the pin through the frame) is not a good idea even if you could.
Have you checked to see if the chambers are spaced so they line up with the bore ?

[Kev18]

Tape worked fine. But il make my own rod from scratch for a better look. I bored it out to 1/4. Same spec as the repro cylinder. Had to make a makeshift long shaft drill bit to reach.

[Kev18]

made the cylinder rod! Works great. :)

[John Taylor]

I have a set of small hole gauges that work good for this type of measurement ,https://www.msdiscounttool.com/catalog/product_info.php?csv=gg&products_id=104539&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0f3I94K45gIVsxx9Ch32Zgs9EAQYASAB EgLq4fD_BwE

[Kev18]

Test fired it today. Works really well! Only 15 grains of FFG. Sounded like a wet firecracker, but still fired. Il try 20.

[clodhopper]

I have a set of small hole gauges that work good for this type of measurement ,https://www.msdiscounttool.com/catalog/product_info.php?csv=gg&products_id=104539&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0f3I94K45gIVsxx9Ch32Zgs9EAQYASAB EgLq4fD_BwE

Could you give a short description of how you run those gages, I have a set, but do not get repeatable measurements.

[oldracer]

Earlier this year when I was working on getting my 1858 44 caliber Remington revolvers to shoot well, my mentor said to measure the following and make the necessary changes:
- Make sure all 6 chambers in the cylinder line up with the barrel exactly. Cock the pistol and then lower the hammer and then move on to the next.
- Make sure there is about .008 clearance between barrel and the face of the cylinder. This way no jamming when shooting.
- Make sure a good ring of lead is shaved when seating the ball. You can press one into the cylinder (no powder) to get the ring of lead, remove the nipple and then use a brass rod through the nipple hole to tap out the ball. The diameter across the shaved area will tell the bore.
- Make sure there is a nice taper in the barrel forcing cone area. If none then a cutter can be rented for a week at a time.
- Use anti-seize on nipple threads so they can be removed when necessary.
- For a 44 caliber revolver, 28 grains of FFFG works well and the put some Cream of Wheat on the powder so ball sits just below the face of the cylinder. He used a solid bullet lube to cover the ball to provide lubrication as ball goes down the barrel. Something like the SRG lube used with grease groove bullets in slug guns or BPCR loads.
John

[Kev18]

Earlier this year when I was working on getting my 1858 44 caliber Remington revolvers to shoot well, my mentor said to measure the following and make the necessary changes:
- Make sure all 6 chambers in the cylinder line up with the barrel exactly. Cock the pistol and then lower the hammer and then move on to the next.
- Make sure there is about .008 clearance between barrel and the face of the cylinder. This way no jamming when shooting.
- Make sure a good ring of lead is shaved when seating the ball. You can press one into the cylinder (no powder) to get the ring of lead, remove the nipple and then use a brass rod through the nipple hole to tap out the ball. The diameter across the shaved area will tell the bore.
- Make sure there is a nice taper in the barrel forcing cone area. If none then a cutter can be rented for a week at a time.
- Use anti-seize on nipple threads so they can be removed when necessary.
- For a 44 caliber revolver, 28 grains of FFFG works well and the put some Cream of Wheat on the powder so ball sits just below the face of the cylinder. He used a solid bullet lube to cover the ball to provide lubrication as ball goes down the barrel. Something like the SRG lube used with grease groove bullets in slug guns or BPCR loads.
John
Thanks il keep that in mind :)

[Battis]

I think it's unfortunate that you can't own and shoot a reproduction of that Remington .36 - you seem to have the BP bug. I know your original has no "collector's value," but it has historic value, and it's a cool gun (and not that common - I'd love one), but it's not an every day shooter. Tape on the arbor to take up space is what I would do, since I only shoot the originals maybe once a year. If 15 grs of FFG black powder does the job, I'd stick with that load. I've broken a nipple or two in an original and I'm still kicking myself for doing it.
I've shot this Remington-Beals .36 once, and it's as solid as can be, but I don't want to damage it.
Be careful with that old timer.

[Kev18]

I think it's unfortunate that you can't own and shoot a reproduction of that Remington .36 - you seem to have the BP bug. I know your original has no "collector's value," but it has historic value, and it's a cool gun (and not that common - I'd love one), but it's not an every day shooter. Tape on the arbor to take up space is what I would do, since I only shoot the originals maybe once a year. If 15 grs of FFG black powder does the job, I'd stick with that load. I've broken a nipple or two in an original and I'm still kicking myself for doing it.
I've shot this Remington-Beals .36 once, and it's as solid as can be, but I don't want to damage it.
Be careful with that old timer.

That gun looks awesome! I like the engraving. Mine isnt that nice. I didnt actually add tape to increase the diameter. I made a new one from scratch.

[Battis]

That Remington-Beals is factory engraved. The place where I bought it did not know what they had...but I did.

[Kev18]

That Remington-Beals is factory engraved. The place where I bought it did not know what they had...but I did.

Does that mean you didnt pay alot ? ;)

[John Taylor]

Could you give a short description of how you run those gages, I have a set, but do not get repeatable measurements.

Expand in hole till you feel a slight drag then measure with a micrometer. Some holes are out of round so check in a few different places.

[Battis]

Does that mean you didnt pay alot ?
I saw the gun, saw the price, and I think I melted my credit card a little pulling it from my wallet. I had it appraised at James Julia and it's worth a lot more than what I paid (but I'll never sell it.)
I bought an original Whitney .36 at that store that they advertised as "a pre-Italian reproduction." The only company making the Whitneys before the Italians was Whitney. It's definitely an original.

[clodhopper]

Expand in hole till you feel a slight drag then measure with a micrometer. Some holes are out of round so check in a few different places.

Thanks, could be my fingers have been smashed to many times.

[Jniedbalski]

They where talking I thank about putting the tape on the cylinder pin to make the pin bigger then put the cylinder back on the pin. Don’t thank the cylinder would go back on . tape to thick unless the cylinder or pin was very worn. I guess they make different thickness of tape. The stuff I had was for sealing duct work and very thick. The thinner stuff I don’t see why not. I thank my 1851 navy in 36 liked 18 to 20 grains to shoot good

[Kev18]

They where talking I thank about putting the tape on the cylinder pin to make the pin bigger then put the cylinder back on the pin. Don’t thank the cylinder would go back on . tape to thick unless the cylinder or pin was very worn. I guess they make different thickness of tape. The stuff I had was for sealing duct work and very thick. The thinner stuff I don’t see why not. I thank my 1851 navy in 36 liked 18 to 20 grains to shoot good

Il try 20 next time I go in the woods.

[Battis]

Keep in mind that when that revolver was brand new, about 160 years ago, and everything fit perfectly, the powder charge was around 18 grs. of BP.

[Kev18]

Keep in mind that when that revolver was brand new, about 160 years ago, and everything fit perfectly, the powder charge was around 18 grs. of BP.

Really? The ball sits quite low in the cylinder? I would of thought that the powder charge would have been greater.

[indian joe]

Keep in mind that when that revolver was brand new, about 160 years ago, and everything fit perfectly, the powder charge was around 18 grs. of BP.

18 grains for a 36 maybe - hes got a 44 -

[nvbirdman]

Just for clarity, that cylinder pin thing is called an arbor.

[Battis]

His is a .36.

Is the depth of the cylinder chamber in the repro cylinder the same depth as the original?

[Kev18]

His is a .36.

Is the depth of the cylinder chamber in the repro cylinder the same depth as the original?

Looks like it. The repro cylinder had to be reduced in diameter and length.

[indian joe]

Looks like it. The repro cylinder had to be reduced in diameter and length.

Thought somebody said 44 earlier -------36 cal = my pocket navy takes 23 - 25 grains - its a little gun - it DO NOT behave / sound like a wet firecracker.

This is a modern made replica - sound metal - well made - a 5 shot small frame gun and that full chamber load is no way weak - a good solid "boom" and its lively in the hand - nothing pipsqueak about it at all !! ------18 grains in an old gun ? should be enough

If you wanna kill stuff (other than paper) out in the woods - I suggest a 45 repro and dont go plinkin bears or an angry moose

[Battis]

160 year old gun, repro cylinder, no knowledge of how it was used, maybe abused, in the past - I'd use no more than 18 grs of FFG, and be happy as hell that it stayed intact. Can't say that I ever heard a wet firecracker go off. My original Remington .44 has a distinct hollow sound when I shoot it that no repro has.

[Kev18]

Sounded like a little poof. But shot really well. Il add a little more powder. Not really worried about the internals. I swapped them out for repro parts. Hammer, hand, cylinder... Etc. Only thing original is the frame, barrel, trigger guard and the trigger spring I think. I even changed some screws.
I'm not worried about the frame and such with such low powder charges. I'm thinking of stopping at 20 max. I didnt even have recoil at 15

[Battis]

BP doesn't recoil like smokeless. It's more of a push. 18 grs is not a light load. For reference, the top gun in the pic is a Pietta .44. The bottom is a Savage and North .36. The Savage and North is overbuilt - it should have been a .44. But, I only use 18 grs of FFG when I shoot it.

[Kev18]

Ok, well il use 18 grains next time. I only used 15.