Opinions on Original vs Modern Reproduction Lever guns?

[Kev18]

Just a question I wanted to ask? What are you guys' opinion on modern or antique originals and what do you do with them?

Some people collect only oldies, some new ones? Some shoot, some don't want to ruin value. What are your thoughts?

Me: I like to collect originals. I shoot everything I own. I do have a few modern ones. I just don't find them as attractive. I love rifles with history and character. I barely have any rifles that are in Prestine quality. I like Winchesters but I also have other makers.
The quality and uniqueness of the old rifles are great to me. Modern ones are nice. Alot more precise and repeatable. If a rifle has a defect because a machine had been poorly adjusted or tuned, multiple other rifles will have a similar issue. Not to mention that the modern materials are "safer".
I don't have a need to hot rod any rifles. 1500fps with a 300grain bullet will drop anything in north america.

What are your opinions? Just trying to spark a conversation and see different point of views.:razz:

[Bazoo]

I like rifles in the early smokeless era into the 70s-80s even. Stuff like winchester 1886 in smokeless, winchester 71s, 95s, and 94s. But I also like JM Marlin 1894 and 1895 rifles, as well as the 336. I believe in shooting them, sling them, and using them.

Stuff like the modern 1892 rifle copies, Henry's, mossbergs, I don't like as much.

[reivertom]

I shot an original 1892 Winchester in 44-40 a while back. It was made in the first year of production. There is something about the feel of that old gun that is just better than the new ones. I know the new ones probably have better steel, etc., but there was something about the old one that just screamed quality.

[LawrenceA]

Personally like old versus new. Have marlin and Winchester and shoot all I have. Particularly like stuff from between the wars.
I honestly believe there is a connection with the past using old guns and just looking at them one can see the skill and care taken in a smooth operation, a proper blue and good wood to metal finish.
Must say main hunting rifle is an XLR so although a JM still pretty modern being a stainless with laminate but this is the tropics.

[dverna]

I do not own any lever actions that are more than 55 years old. Newest one is 15 years old.

[indian joe]

Kev
Its always been winchesters for me - have owned a half dozen or more original 92's (all four calibres) - 92's were common enough downunder that we can still find originals to shoot . I hankered for the big rifles and originals of those are rare as rockin horse clods. And priced accordingly? With our small soft skinned game there was just not the need for the 76 - 86 sized hardware so they are rare - back about 1990 a bloke showed me a browning 1886 -in 45/70 -I was hell bent to get one but the run of them was sold out - I settled for a model 71 in 348 so I had my big winchester! Twenty years before that I had missed on an original 76 and ammo (a 45/75) and again in the mid 1990's missed on two that came up for sale in shops away from me - five years ago I bit the bullet and ordered a Uberti 1876 in 45/75 - not sorry I did that - the chance of finding a shootable original in my budget range is about zero - I shoot everything I own - no collector guns here . Last year I saw a chiappa 1886 in the local shop marked down some - I stayed away for a couple months in the hope someone else would take it and save me from myself but in the end it came home with me - was a project gun but I got it working right and its a good shooter. I dont have anything with the newfangly safeties and I have changed the firing pin in my 71 to a solid pin similar to the originals - may never hunt anything worthy of it with these three but have some fun from time time. If someone showed me an 86 like yours for the money you paid it would be mine but no such luck as that. I do have an L C Smith specialty grade shotgun I found cheap so its not all sad stories my end

[Kev18]

I do not own any lever actions that are more than 55 years old. Newest one is 15 years old.

So you stay in the smokeless era only?

[Kev18]

Kev
Its always been winchesters for me - have owned a half dozen or more original 92's (all four calibres) - 92's were common enough downunder that we can still find originals to shoot . I hankered for the big rifles and originals of those are rare as rockin horse clods. And priced accordingly? With our small soft skinned game there was just not the need for the 76 - 86 sized hardware so they are rare - back about 1990 a bloke showed me a browning 1886 -in 45/70 -I was hell bent to get one but the run of them was sold out - I settled for a model 71 in 348 so I had my big winchester! Twenty years before that I had missed on an original 76 and ammo (a 45/75) and again in the mid 1990's missed on two that came up for sale in shops away from me - five years ago I bit the bullet and ordered a Uberti 1876 in 45/75 - not sorry I did that - the chance of finding a shootable original in my budget range is about zero - I shoot everything I own - no collector guns here . Last year I saw a chiappa 1886 in the local shop marked down some - I stayed away for a couple months in the hope someone else would take it and save me from myself but in the end it came home with me - was a project gun but I got it working right and its a good shooter. I dont have anything with the newfangly safeties and I have changed the firing pin in my 71 to a solid pin similar to the originals - may never hunt anything worthy of it with these three but have some fun from time time. If someone showed me an 86 like yours for the money you paid it would be mine but no such luck as that. I do have an L C Smith specialty grade shotgun I found cheap so its not all sad stories my end

Well you dont need to hunt with all of them. And theres nothing wrong with a big caliber deer rifle! Always fun to shoot the old ones :)

[sharps4590]

Probably as with most of us, my interests have changed over the decades. Way back when I was really into lever rifles I had a Dutchman's assortment of original and modern. As time went on that evolved to where all I had was original lever rifles and boy, I had a pile of them, Winchester's and Marlin's. Today I'm down to two, an orginal '86 in 40-82 and an Uberti reproduction '73 in 44-40. The only reason for the repro Uberti is I wanted a '73 but was unwilling to pay the tariff for a really nice original. That and the rifle belonged to a good friend of mine and I wanted something of Bill's after he passed away. For several decades I had an original '92 in 32-20 that I dearly loved but I've started to parcel out my firearms to my two sons. The oldest decided he needed that '92. I've been on the lookout for another original 32-20 rifle ever since.

I guess all that puts me into the "original" category. I often jokingly say if it's post 1950, I ain't interested....but that ain't so much of a joke.

[veeman]

My one original 1894 was made in 1897, and it has been bubba'd before I got it, re-barreled. Beyond that my oldest is a mid 80's 94 Ranger that's a good shooter, and a 94 Chief Crazy Horse. The rest are repo's, Browning 1886 SRC and Rifle, Uberti 73 and 76, Rossi 92's. Original's are few in Illinois, and too derned expensive. And the repo's are getting that way too.

[pietro]

What are you guys' opinion on modern or antique originals and what do you do with them ?





I'm both a hunter/shooter, and someone who likes high-grade firearms...…

Ergo, I like to shoot/use every gun I own.

I like high-grade firearms because they are something beautiful to fondle & look at during those times when game is scarce.

I likewise could never afford to feed my preference for high-grade guns if replica's weren't readily available.

I particularly like commemorative replicas - where else can an inlaid/engraved gun with upgraded wood be had for less the half the cost of an almost identical gennie ?



Some of the high-grade guns I've had include:

The .30-30 Winchester NRA Rifle (looks like a Model 64 Deluxe)

https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/17213/16967973_2.jpg?v=8D05DDF8F006D60


The High Grade .45-70 Winchester (Miroku) Model 86EL:

https://cdn.rockislandauction.com/dev_cdn/76/3914.jpg




The .45-70 50th Anniversary Ruger #1:

https://www.rockislandauction.com/html/dev_cdn/1028/6885.jpg




The .32 Special Winchester 94 Canadian Pacific Railway Commemorative (looks like a Model 55 Deluxe):

https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/28542/24908447_2.jpg?v=8D39C7F7B8BA1A0

.

[stubshaft]

I prefer originals to newer models myself. They have a special feel to them and a story to tell. I do enjoy shooting the newer Marlins (pre-Remlin) but find that the Winchester's made after '63 just don't have the same smoothness to them, although I have hunted extensively with my Big Bore 94 in .375 Win.

[Kev18]

Probably as with most of us, my interests have changed over the decades. Way back when I was really into lever rifles I had a Dutchman's assortment of original and modern. As time went on that evolved to where all I had was original lever rifles and boy, I had a pile of them, Winchester's and Marlin's. Today I'm down to two, an orginal '86 in 40-82 and an Uberti reproduction '73 in 44-40. The only reason for the repro Uberti is I wanted a '73 but was unwilling to pay the tariff for a really nice original. That and the rifle belonged to a good friend of mine and I wanted something of Bill's after he passed away. For several decades I had an original '92 in 32-20 that I dearly loved but I've started to parcel out my firearms to my two sons. The oldest decided he needed that '92. I've been on the lookout for another original 32-20 rifle ever since.

I guess all that puts me into the "original" category. I often jokingly say if it's post 1950, I ain't interested....but that ain't so much of a joke.

I also have a 40-82, what does yours look like? Standard model?

[Kev18]

I'm both a hunter/shooter, and someone who likes high-grade firearms...…

Ergo, I like to shoot/use every gun I own.

I like high-grade firearms because they are something beautiful to fondle & look at during those times when game is scarce.

I likewise could never afford to feed my preference for high-grade guns if replica's weren't readily available.

I particularly like commemorative replicas - where else can an inlaid/engraved gun with upgraded wood be had for less the half the cost of an almost identical gennie ?



Some of the high-grade guns I've had include:

The .30-30 Winchester NRA Rifle (looks like a Model 64 Deluxe)

https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/17213/16967973_2.jpg?v=8D05DDF8F006D60


The High Grade .45-70 Winchester (Miroku) Model 86EL:

https://cdn.rockislandauction.com/dev_cdn/76/3914.jpg




The .45-70 50th Anniversary Ruger #1:

https://www.rockislandauction.com/html/dev_cdn/1028/6885.jpg




The .32 Special Winchester 94 Canadian Pacific Railway Commemorative (looks like a Model 55 Deluxe):

https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/28542/24908447_2.jpg?v=8D39C7F7B8BA1A0

.

Those aren't cheap even for repros....

[pietro]

.

IMO, it's all relative - they cost about 50%-75% less than an antique original, and they're new ! . :)

.

[Kev18]

.

IMO, it's all relative - they cost about 50%-75% less than an antique original, and they're new ! . :)

.

I know but its just something cool holding a rifle that has history, thats 100 years old and is unique.

[DDJ]

I have 2 Rossi 92's and one original 1892 with a 1911 mfg date. The original gun is a much more slender gun which I think gives it a better feel and instinctive pointing. The actions on the Rossis have been gone through and are very slick but overall I like the original the best

[HawkCreek]

I'm a Winchester fan though I admittedly own and use Marlin's and one solitary Savage 99. I'm not above wanting to try out a Mossberg 464 one day. The old ones have "history" which is neat but for using I've gotten rid of all buy one late model 71. Everything else is much newer! Yes, the tang safeties and rebound hammers could go but neither has ever given me an issue and for the better materials, more precisely made parts and from my limited experience better accuracy is worth it. I don't really believe in safe queens, mostly because I can't afford to have guns just to look at, so this last fall when a horse rolled over my (new) Winchester it didn't bother me. It was repaired and put back into service after a few days. If it had been an antique... Besides, it's fun to put your own "use" on guns. Maybe someday someone will be looking at my guns wondering about every little nick in the stocks or worn bluing.

[pworley1]

I've never met a lever action I didn't like, but there is something about the originals that the modern ones will not have for about a hundred years of use.

[Kev18]

Im seeing that people like originals abit more :)

[shrapnel]

I've never met a lever action I didn't like, but there is something about the originals that the modern ones will not have for about a hundred years of use.

This is pretty much my feeling as well. The only real good reproductions are the Brownings of the 1980's, even though Miroku made those and the later Winchesters, the Brownings were still better quality. Shiloh makes a good reproduction Sharps as does USFA with their Colt reproductions. Most of the rest are just tools, they work, but nothing much to look at...

http://i.imgur.com/iln0QYD.jpg (https://imgur.com/iln0QYD)

http://i.imgur.com/chsYbnB.jpg (https://imgur.com/chsYbnB)

http://i.imgur.com/rnl36CT.jpg (https://imgur.com/rnl36CT)

http://i.imgur.com/CidKAIV.jpg (https://imgur.com/CidKAIV)

[OS OK]

If I own it, I shoot it . . . Currently my only WinLever in the safe is this 'Legendary Lawman', my father was a Sheriff and I bought this rifle thinking of him.


https://i.imgur.com/S5A49vc.jpg?1

It is a sweet little 1894 Trapper 16", 30-30W ... The carbine has an engraved antique silver plated receiver, Left side features frontier town scene w/ mounted lawman. Right side of bbl. has silver filled marking "Legendary Lawman". Carbine style stocks of fancy walnut have XTR style cut checkering. Right side of stock has pewter medallion featuring a lawman w/ his hand on his gun. Limited Edition of 19,999 mfg. in 1977.

[Kev18]

[QUOTE=shrapnel;4780754]This is pretty much my feeling as well. The only real good reproductions are the Brownings of the 1980's, even though Miroku made those and the later Winchesters, the Brownings were still better quality. Shiloh makes a good reproduction Sharps as does USFA with their Colt reproductions. Most of the rest are just tools, they work, but nothing much to look at...

Those are so nice! Im jealous! I want a high wall so bad. Even maybe a low wall.

1895
1885
Sharps.

I would love to add those to my little collection.

[Kev18]

If I own it, I shoot it . . . Currently my only WinLever in the safe is this 'Legendary Lawman', my father was a Sheriff and I bought this rifle thinking of him.


https://i.imgur.com/S5A49vc.jpg?1

It is a sweet little 1894 Trapper 16", 30-30W ... The carbine has an engraved antique silver plated receiver, Left side features frontier town scene w/ mounted lawman. Right side of bbl. has silver filled marking "Legendary Lawman". Carbine style stocks of fancy walnut have XTR style cut checkering. Right side of stock has pewter medallion featuring a lawman w/ his hand on his gun. Limited Edition of 19,999 mfg. in 1977.

Nice one. Now you can pass it on to coming generations :)

[alamogunr]

Almost all of my levers are modern. Three are Miroku. The only Winchester is a 1894 manufactured in 1953. It has what I am guessing is the original receiver sight. I have 2 Marlins. I had a third but gave it to my older son. I would have loved to have older Winchesters and Marlins but they aren't available in this area. At least not that I know of.

[Kev18]

Almost all of my levers are modern. Three are Miroku. The only Winchester is a 1894 manufactured in 1953. It has what I am guessing is the original receiver sight. I have 2 Marlins. I had a third but gave it to my older son. I would have loved to have older Winchesters and Marlins but they aren't available in this area. At least not that I know of.

Sometimes they are way to expensive. Sadly, no in-between. Super cheap or more then diamonds.

[Shawlerbrook]

Like some of the above, I like everything with a lever. That said, I prefer older, smokeless powder leverguns . I hunt with, shoot and collect leverguns.

[Bazoo]

I've been wanting a winchester 71 for a while. Something about the way they look.

[FergusonTO35]

Totally depends on the intended use. For a rifle that is going to be used hard, I would rather take a Remlin that has proven reliable and accurate instead of an irreplaceable ninteteenth century gun.

[alamogunr]

I've been wanting a winchester 71 for a while. Something about the way they look.

Look for a Browning Miroku. I found mine several years ago for about $700. I haven't looked at prices since then. I wouldn't be surprised if they have gone up considerably. Everything else gunwise has.

[Gunlaker]

I think the originals are way cooler than the newer ones, but I think you have to be really savvy to buy a well worn original and do well. I only shoot repros now. At one time I'd bought what was my dream lever action rifle. A Winchester 1886 in 38-56 with an octagonal barrel and a full length magazine tube. It had a number of little problems, and when I showed it to a friend who knows a fair bit more than I do, he said that someone had swapped a lot of parts internally and it'd be a lot of work to fix it right. That's more or less been my experience with 100+ year old single shots and lever guns. If they are affordably priced then it's likely that somebody has messed it up.

If I could find the same rifle in really nice condition I'd probably get rid of my newer rifles though :-).

Chris.

[veeman]

Several of my newer ones are getting pretty old now.

[Kev18]

Totally depends on the intended use. For a rifle that is going to be used hard, I would rather take a Remlin that has proven reliable and accurate instead of an irreplaceable ninteteenth century gun.

Some times I think that way to. I take my remlin out if its really ugly outside. I can stick the stock in the snow or throw across a creek and it doesn't bother me. I hold my originals like babies. But I still take them for walks. Im going tomorrow. Have yet to decide what il take. Maybe my revolver? I dont know... I just did a leather covered sling with fox fur for my 86. Haven't used it since I did my large lever for it. But its alittle to heavy for me to drag in the woods with planks, screws, a chainsaw etc.. to my little log cabin :(

[Kev18]

I think the originals are way cooler than the newer ones, but I think you have to be really savvy to buy a well worn original and do well. I only shoot repros now. At one time I'd bought what was my dream lever action rifle. A Winchester 1886 in 38-56 with an octagonal barrel and a full length magazine tube. It had a number of little problems, and when I showed it to a friend who knows a fair bit more than I do, he said that someone had swapped a lot of parts internally and it'd be a lot of work to fix it right. That's more or less been my experience with 100+ year old single shots and lever guns. If they are affordably priced then it's likely that somebody has messed it up.

If I could find the same rifle in really nice condition I'd probably get rid of my newer rifles though :-).

Chris.

My 86 wouldnt feed right, or at all at certain angles. Turns out I looked at the feed ramps and they almost had a 90 degree angle. Maybe for a small er cartridge. It took 10 minutes on the bench grinder to lower the angle and I didnt have a problem since :)

[jimb16]

I've owned a bunch of lever actions over the years, but was never happy with them. Today I own one; a Uberti 1873 Winchester clone in .45 colt. I have to say that I'm finally happy with a lever action. Last friday it performed a 40 yard drop in his tracks kill on a nice young buck. I can't complain....

[Drm50]

If you just want a shooter I guess repros are ok. The good ones aren't cheap either. I could never see the point. If it's not original as far as I'm concerned you might as well buy one of the low end bolt actions.

A lot of the new stuff will never last long enough to become antique. I would rather have one original in good mechanical and shooting condition than a rack full of repros.

[Texas by God]

Shrapnel- would you be so kind as to school me on the guns in the third picture down? I’ve never seen any of those before. Your collection is amazing.

[indian joe]

If you just want a shooter I guess repros are ok. The good ones aren't cheap either. I could never see the point. If it's not original as far as I'm concerned you might as well buy one of the low end bolt actions.

A lot of the new stuff will never last long enough to become antique. I would rather have one original in good mechanical and shooting condition than a rack full of repros.

Bolt actions are crap ---utilitarian, effective, but nothing more than tools...............................

[sharps4590]

.

and they're new ! . :)

.

Therein lies the problem with them.

Kev, my 40-82 is from 1895 and has a round barrel. It was such a boat anchor when I got it and I mean REALLY rough, except for the bore which is about 95%. Even though I used it that way for a few years, I finally sent it off and had it refreshed. Couldn't call it a full restoration but at least I'm not worried about the stock breaking now.

[shrapnel]

Shrapnel- would you be so kind as to school me on the guns in the third picture down? I’ve never seen any of those before. Your collection is amazing.

The guns aren't all lever guns, but starting from the left is a Whitney Phoenix in 38 long, then a Whitney Phoenix 20 gauge shotgun, Whitney Phoenix 44 WCF, then some really scarce Burgess guns; first a Burgess 12 gauge folding shotgun, then a Burgess solid rib 12 gauge takedown shotgun, then a Burgess cutaway version of 12 gauge takedown shotgun; Then the lever guns are Whitney Kennedy SRC in 45-60, Whitney Kennedy SRC in 44-40 then a Whitney Kennedy Experimental rifle with double set triggers in 45-60, then a Whitney Kennedy rifle in 44 WCF.

All but the Whitney Phoenix guns were designed by Andrew Burgess who is second only to John Browning in his inventive genius in firearms development with hundreds of patents to his name...

http://i.imgur.com/rnl36CT.jpg (https://imgur.com/rnl36CT)

[Texas by God]

Bolt actions are crap ---utilitarian, effective, but nothing more than tools...............................Dont hold back, tell us how you feel!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Texas by God]

Thanks, Schrapnel. What mode of operation are the Burgess shotguns?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[shrapnel]

Thanks, Schrapnel. What mode of operation are the Burgess shotguns?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Here are some pictures of the gun and original catalog from burgess. The shotgun is a wrist slide action, unique to Burgess. I also have a wrist slide action 44 WCF with 2 barrels...

http://i.imgur.com/4RlW1hY.jpg (https://imgur.com/4RlW1hY)

http://i.imgur.com/Vs3qgMT.jpg (https://imgur.com/Vs3qgMT)

http://i.imgur.com/SyCbFzZ.jpg (https://imgur.com/SyCbFzZ)

http://i.imgur.com/cRjUBkF.jpg (https://imgur.com/cRjUBkF)

[Texas by God]

Now that is neat! Thanks for the lesson and pics.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Kev18]

Therein lies the problem with them.

Kev, my 40-82 is from 1895 and has a round barrel. It was such a boat anchor when I got it and I mean REALLY rough, except for the bore which is about 95%. Even though I used it that way for a few years, I finally sent it off and had it refreshed. Couldn't call it a full restoration but at least I'm not worried about the stock breaking now.

Always nice to give new life to a rifle:)

[indian joe]

Dont hold back, tell us how you feel!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Well - no use beating around the bushes mate !
I currently own four bolt guns - all very effective tools ! even includes a decent model 70 winchester that I all but wore out killin stuff -- real nice pretty piece of wood too - but its just a hunk of wood and metal - dead in the hands - pick up any of the lever guns I keep for FUN and they feel alive...................

[35 Whelen]

I have repro's and originals, but I have a real soft spot for the originals.

This is an 1886 production 38 WCF, and it has been USED, and I use it too. If you look carefully at the forearm just ahead of the receiver, you can see that the wood is quite visibly worn from being carried. In the interest of full disclosure, I did have to have the barrel lined as it was completely trashed. But she's a damn good shooter now!

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/1873%20Winchester-%201886%20Production/200%20yds.%20Herco_zpsg5fcpll0.jpg (https://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/1873%20Winchester-%201886%20Production/200%20yds.%20Herco_zpsg5fcpll0.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/3%20point_zpswtji6qwy.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/3%20point_zpswtji6qwy.jpg.html)

https://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Gobbler_zpschqunhns.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/Gobbler_zpschqunhns.jpg.html)

35W

[Kev18]

Nice rifle. I have one but I don't use it as It tarnishes quickly. Its fully nickel plated so as soon as it gets moisture on it, it goes black. Id like to buy another thats just a standard model.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I like both, These beauties are made in 1892 with consequetive 4 digit serial numbers!

https://i.imgur.com/5cXpWqf.jpg

Then there is the Pedersoli 1886 in 45/70 at a price I could afford.

https://i.imgur.com/chnKiwx.jpg

[shrapnel]

I love the originals, and still shoot them. That is what they were made to do...

http://i.imgur.com/bSfVQ6p.jpg (https://imgur.com/bSfVQ6p)

http://i.imgur.com/cqzF5BE.jpg (https://imgur.com/cqzF5BE)

http://i.imgur.com/McElPfC.jpg (https://imgur.com/McElPfC)

http://i.imgur.com/9MAvlQo.jpg (https://imgur.com/9MAvlQo)

http://i.imgur.com/bAPlYcf.jpg (https://imgur.com/bAPlYcf)

http://i.imgur.com/NFJ5nGt.jpg (https://imgur.com/NFJ5nGt)

http://i.imgur.com/zVERcin.jpg (https://imgur.com/zVERcin)

[veeman]

Hard to beat that kind of hunting!

[FergusonTO35]

Them's some tuff wabbits you got there, if ya use an 1895 on 'em!!

[Kev18]

Wish I could have some of those guns. They look really nice :)

[missionary5155]

Good morning
We shoot everything we buy. I have gone hunting corn crunchers and groundhogs with flintlocks made around 1780. Have one with parts from the 1770's. Regularly take out a 1819 Halls Breech loader. So all the rest are newer made and we are shooter / hunters.
Spencer, Frank Wesson, old caplocks, old military, right up to recent. They have no purpose but to get shot.

[Kev18]

Good morning
We shoot everything we buy. I have gone hunting corn crunchers and groundhogs with flintlocks made around 1780. Have one with parts from the 1770's. Regularly take out a 1819 Halls Breech loader. So all the rest are newer made and we are shooter / hunters.
Spencer, Frank Wesson, old caplocks, old military, right up to recent. They have no purpose but to get shot.
I'm the same way. But people these days are to scared to shoot anything that's old. Scared of their own shadow. They rather spend thousands on a conversation piece and wall hanger instead of going out and trying it. Shame. Sounds like you have nice rifles though :)

[Swamp Fox]

I buy guns to shoot and hunt with. Newer guns are cheaper and more available, so that’s what I’ve ended up with, although I’ve never bought a factory new lever gun. I’ll put my own wear and history on them and when I’m gone my kids will remember me through the wear and stories. Anybody that thinks a modern made quality gun won’t last for 100 years the way prewar guns have is fooling themselves.
That being said, I would love to be able to find and afford an antique, although I’d have some reservations about beating a classic through the woods. But to hold one and imagine the history behind them is a great feeling. I got burned buying a pre64 model 94, and haven’t really had the stomach to try again. But I suppose that could happen with any used gun, not just classics or antiques.

[Kev18]

I buy guns to shoot and hunt with. Newer guns are cheaper and more available, so that’s what I’ve ended up with, although I’ve never bought a factory new lever gun. I’ll put my own wear and history on them and when I’m gone my kids will remember me through the wear and stories. Anybody that thinks a modern made quality gun won’t last for 100 years the way prewar guns have is fooling themselves.
That being said, I would love to be able to find and afford an antique, although I’d have some reservations about beating a classic through the woods. But to hold one and imagine the history behind them is a great feeling. I got burned buying a pre64 model 94, and haven’t really had the stomach to try again. But I suppose that could happen with any used gun, not just classics or antiques.

Im sure guns these days will last alot longer. More rust resistant and better materials. Look around for antiques when possible :)

[Bigslug]

My appreciation for lever guns stems almost entirely from my Dad's interests - I do not own one, have little intention of buying one unless maybe it's a pistol caliber plinker, and would typically rather shoot bolt actions. I get my lever fix when we meet up and I get to help him with load development.

So from that perspective I kinda look at it like this:

1. The biggest leap forward in my enjoyment of hunting was when I switched to stainless and synthetic guns. I had weapon maintenance pounded into me early and have witnessed plenty of old carbon steel and wood guns with serious cancer. When I learned that being out in GOOD hunting weather is what causes that, having a modern gun that allows me to be in the field without the need for a complete tear down and re-lube in my mind is NICE.

2. If they aren't suffering from being old, old guns often "suffer" from being nice - as in too nice to drag through the weeds and use as intended. You can't readily replace what makes them what they are. I really enjoy shooting them at the range, but would far rather bang something plastic against a rock.

3. You mount the optics. . .where, exactly?

4. Having helped Dad tear down and recondition a number of 1800's relics, I've got to say, if I have to wrench on a lever gun, the modern Marlins are a lot less grief to get into.

In favor of the old guns:

1. They didn't have five lawyers and a budget committee involved in the design and production process. As such, they don't have extra safeties that would either require me to remove them or simply not buy the gun at all out of protest.

2. If they made it this far, they were probably made right to begin with.

So I've got this kind of new/old conflict. The lever action as we think of it does not lend itself to modern production methods - that's fine; I'd rather have a milled block of steel anyway. The Uberti repros are probably the best balance of new precision manufacturing and classic features, but since they are intended to be "traditional" guns, they'll rust, rot, be as much of a pain to take apart as the real thing, and won't take a scope without a machine shop backing you up.

So while I prefer handling the old stuff, it's not without it's limitations. The laminate stainless Ruger 77 Gunsite I've been hunting with is enough of a Mauser 98 to please my "old gun" sensibilities, but can handle the real world without pampering. If JM Marlin had made stainless/synthetic, Ballard-rifled, tapped-for-glass, no-button-safety 1895's, I'd probably be a real fan.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have the Fantastic Henry reproduction in 45LC I shoot the heck outta this thing it’s an absolute joy to shoot and have fun plinking with.

[Kev18]

I have the Fantastic Henry reproduction in 45LC I shoot the heck outta this thing it’s an absolute joy to shoot and have fun plinking with.

Ya but thats because originals are super expensive. Even if I would buy one, Id need to get it converted. I don't want to shoot single fire with .44RF

[surfanarchist]

Some great photos in this thread.

I buy what I like and shoot what I buy. I have no way to display antiques though I think it would be cool to own some nice original 1800s Winchesters as they are truly wonderful pieces of machined art. For me I guess I like the repros. You can drill and tap them for sights, or not; you can strip and refinish them, or not. Just doesn't matter what you do as you're not effecting their value so you can do with them as you want. The more fun I can have with my stuff the better.

[Hootmix]

Looks like Shrapnel Is one rifle short,, of a longer " couch ",, nice collection.

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix .

[Reverend Al]

Although I have a handful of modern lever actions, most of my collection are old original levers, single shots, and bolt actions and I shoot them all! That's what they were made for, plus there is just something special about getting an old rifle in a now obsolete cartridge back up and running again. Some of my guns hadn't been shot for decades due to the lack of proper ammo. The other thing that I love about shooting these old and obscure models and calibres are the questions you get about them when I'm up shooting at our local range. I love it when someone comes over to my bench and asks: "What in the HECK are you shooting?"

:-D

[Kev18]

Although I have a handful of modern lever actions, most of my collection are old original levers, single shots, and bolt actions and I shoot them all! That's what they were made for, plus there is just something special about getting an old rifle in a now obsolete cartridge back up and running again. Some of my guns hadn't been shot for decades due to the lack of proper ammo. The other thing that I love about shooting these old and obscure models and calibres are the questions you get about them when I'm up shooting at our local range. I love it when someone comes over to my bench and asks: "What in the HECK are you shooting?"

:-D

Ya, people are very curious.

[If1Hitu]

I like all my modern lever action rifles,because I don't own a lever action antique rifle.[smilie=l:

[Kev18]

I like all my modern lever action rifles,because I don't own a lever action antique rifle.[smilie=l:

fair enough.

[Speedo66]

I've got a small collection of lever actions, 3 to be exact. An original '73 from 1889 in .38-40, a 50 year old Belgian Browning BLR in .308, and a modern Rossi 92 in .357.

The first and last are plinkers, the Browning is an effective deer gun. Regardless of age, I enjoy them all, but I'd trade the Rossi for an original in a NY minute.

[Kev18]

The repros are nice for me because I care about them less. The finish isn't always nice either.

[Geobru]

The seed for my love for old levers was planted in 1929 when my dad bought an old 86 in 40-82 at an auction for $1.50. He never fired that gun, but I must have worked that action a thousand times while I was growing up! I started shooting that old girl in 2008, and it took me a couple years experimenting with boolits and powders before I finally unlocked the combination to that rifle. My best group is a 6 shot group at 100 yards that measures 2.5 inches across. If I eliminate one flyer, the group is 1.75", fired with a Marbles tang sight. I had more fun getting that rifle to shoot straight than a person should be allowed to have!

I look at the price of a new Henry Model 94 and think that for a few C notes more, I can have a really nice 1894 rifle that has some history under its belt. Actually, they are available for less if you are willing to buy one with some character!

Most of my guns were made between 1887 and 1951. Most are Winchesters with a few Brownings from the 70s thrown in for good measure.

Bottom line, from my experience, the oldies can be a challenge to resurrect and get to shoot accurately whereas the new ones seem to be more straight forward. I like the challenge of taking an old gun that hasn't been fired in years and maybe needs some TLC and getting it up and running again. YMMV!

[M-Tecs]

When I can afford it I prefer originals. I have hunted with an original Winchester 1873 in 44-40, Trapdoor Springfield's and 1885 Highwalls. My 1892's and 1886's are Browning copies. While the Browning's are made with better tolerances and materials I would prefer originals. I would really love to have an original Winchester 71 with the 50's manufacture date. When I find a nice one it's more than I am willing to pay.

[reivertom]

I recently shot a first year production Winchester 1892 in 44-40. It had a feel to it that was just different than the new guns. I can't explain it. At the time I first shot it, I didn't know it was that old, so I don't think it was just in my head.

[Kev18]

I recently shot a first year production Winchester 1892 in 44-40. It had a feel to it that was just different than the new guns. I can't explain it. At the time I first shot it, I didn't know it was that old, so I don't think it was just in my head.

The actions are alot more polished and refined. These days they crank out guns with almost no regard to fit and finish.

[sparky45]

With all that said; what's the warranty on that "old iron"?

[Kev18]

With all that said; what's the warranty on that "old iron"?

PFFFT. Built to last. Nothing broke on any of my old guns except for screws. Which you can buy.

[indian joe]

The actions are alot more polished and refined. These days they crank out guns with almost no regard to fit and finish.

Kev
I reckon a lot of the smoothness of the oldies is usedness
When I got my new Chiappa 1886 - it wouldnt even feed a round - I fixed that and it was still clunky and erratic - I sat down with a dummy round and fed it through the gate, chambered and ejected 100times (yep I counted em) between each one I dry cycled the action - its not like an old one (Yet) but its not like a new stiff clunky Chiappa either. Its done a couple hundred live rounds and coming along nice - I took took that gun from useless to flawless feed - pretty pleased with that I am !.

[Shawlerbrook]

Wonder if any of this new stuff will be around and still shooting 100+ year’s from now.

[sharps4590]

Warranty? Really? ha-ha-ha-ha!! In the last year I bought two NEW Uberti's, an 1860 Army and a '73 Winchester, which is rather unusual for me as normally I eschew new firearms. Good thing I'm fairly handy with firearms or BOTH would have had to be sent back. The revolver WOULD NOT COCK because the hand was dragging on the cylinder spindle. The rifle would not cycle the action because the cartridge lifter was stuck and actually needed fitted. I know of purchasers of new American made firearms who tell similar stories. In that same period I bought 4 or 5 original German sporting rifles, pre-WW1 and WW-II Mausers, a Haenel/Aydt Schuetzen rifle and a Swedish roller. Worst repair was to give the roller barrel a good cleaning. I've owned ans still own several vintage American rifles, lever and otherwise and, have yet to have to repair any of them.

[Jeff Michel]

Why wouldn't it? There isn't anything mystical about an old gun. The firearms today are built of far better materials than was available even 50 years ago. They crank them out fast today because they can. These processes weren't available in the past but don't think John Moses or Oliver Winchester wouldn't of jumped at the chance. Everything wears out with use and not everything produced by the hand of man 100 years ago is something to be held in reverence. Labor was the coin of the realm and hand fitting was the normal part of the process. People walked a lot more back then too. Technology will always move forward. As pointed out prior, it could be just plain old used, broke in and that does enhance reliability
and "smoothness". You can pay a pro to tune it up or pay the manufacturer to do it, either way the end result will be the same. If you take the time to compare the cost of that old Colt or Winchester back in 1900 and what the average worker was paid and it will be pretty plain that guns were a lot more expensive compared to today's wages and basic costs of the average off the shelf firearm. You also have to consider where exactly is the skilled labor force going to come from that will hand craft your new pistola at a reasonable cost? Heck, I can't even find anyone that wants to run gutters at my house. Sorry if this sounded like a rant, I like the old ones a well as anyone but I'm quite content with my Ubertis, Marlins and Miroku
Winchesters. But since I never had a brand new 125 year Winchester to compare current production to, the comparison between old and new will continue.

[Kev18]

Warranty? Really? ha-ha-ha-ha!! In the last year I bought two NEW Uberti's, an 1860 Army and a '73 Winchester, which is rather unusual for me as normally I eschew new firearms. Good thing I'm fairly handy with firearms or BOTH would have had to be sent back. The revolver WOULD NOT COCK because the hand was dragging on the cylinder spindle. The rifle would not cycle the action because the cartridge lifter was stuck and actually needed fitted. I know of purchasers of new American made firearms who tell similar stories. In that same period I bought 4 or 5 original German sporting rifles, pre-WW1 and WW-II Mausers, a Haenel/Aydt Schuetzen rifle and a Swedish roller. Worst repair was to give the roller barrel a good cleaning. I've owned ans still own several vintage American rifles, lever and otherwise and, have yet to have to repair any of them.
Thats a shame. paying top dollar for new stuff and its broken out of the box.

[Kev18]

Why wouldn't it? There isn't anything mystical about an old gun. The firearms today are built of far better materials than was available even 50 years ago. They crank them out fast today because they can. These processes weren't available in the past but don't think John Moses or Oliver Winchester wouldn't of jumped at the chance. Everything wears out with use and not everything produced by the hand of man 100 years ago is something to be held in reverence. Labor was the coin of the realm and hand fitting was the normal part of the process. People walked a lot more back then too. Technology will always move forward. As pointed out prior, it could be just plain old used, broke in and that does enhance reliability
and "smoothness". You can pay a pro to tune it up or pay the manufacturer to do it, either way the end result will be the same. If you take the time to compare the cost of that old Colt or Winchester back in 1900 and what the average worker was paid and it will be pretty plain that guns were a lot more expensive compared to today's wages and basic costs of the average off the shelf firearm. You also have to consider where exactly is the skilled labor force going to come from that will hand craft your new pistola at a reasonable cost? Heck, I can't even find anyone that wants to run gutters at my house. Sorry if this sounded like a rant, I like the old ones a well as anyone but I'm quite content with my Ubertis, Marlins and Miroku
Winchesters. But since I never had a brand new 125 year Winchester to compare current production to, the comparison between old and new will continue.

Im sure guns would be insane quality if they would of had the materials we had today. No question about it. But in general the fit and finish is poor today. Stuff is stamped or carved by machine . Like wood, for example. They don't care if theres a massive gap in-between the tang and wood. Its a stock so it's going on.

[USSR]

I'm new to the lever action game, but I am quite impressed with my new (used, but like new) Uberti Model 1886 Hunter Lite rifle. I guess I have become a fan of Italian made firearms, as I recently bought a Pietta 1873 SAA revolver, and all my trap guns are Beretta's.

Don

[indian joe]

Im sure guns would be insane quality if they would of had the materials we had today. No question about it. But in general the fit and finish is poor today. Stuff is stamped or carved by machine . Like wood, for example. They don't care if theres a massive gap in-between the tang and wood. Its a stock so it's going on.

Kev
That has not been my experience ---bought three new guns in the last 25 years (Miruko 71, Uberti 76 , and now the Chiappa 86) - standard grade guns - the external fit and finish on all three was first class -----however all three required serious gunsmithing to get them to work as they should - they were not broken - just not built correctly.

[Kev18]

Kev
That has not been my experience ---bought three new guns in the last 25 years (Miruko 71, Uberti 76 , and now the Chiappa 86) - standard grade guns - the external fit and finish on all three was first class -----however all three required serious gunsmithing to get them to work as they should - they were not broken - just not built correctly.

Ok, and as a consumer who pays money for a product are you ok with that? Thats like saying you paid top dollar for quality boots, but the soles are half stuck on so when you walk they flop in the wind. Nothing is broken, just not well put together.

[sharps4590]

Well, if a fella has ever closely examined, owned and used pre-war German, British or American made Paul Jaeger, Al Linder or Griffin & Howe rifles it is beyond my ken how ANY modern made production rifle, from any country, can be considered first class. They ALL come in a distant 3rd or 4th. Given my recent experience with Uberti, I HAVE to question their QC.

[indian joe]

Ok, and as a consumer who pays money for a product are you ok with that? Thats like saying you paid top dollar for quality boots, but the soles are half stuck on so when you walk they flop in the wind. Nothing is broken, just not well put together.

Kev
No not ok with it but downunder we dont got a lot of options - get to fix stuff ourselves most times.

1) the Browning Miroku 71- these generally have a good reputation - it looked nice and it shot good - trigger was good - action was stiff and clunky - I thought it would loosen up over time - had not shot it a lot (maybe 350 rounds the first couple of years) then pretty much parked it, maybe a box or two of twenty per year - someone on the forums here posed a question "what is the recess on the underside of the bolt of a model 92 for" well I knew the answer ( I bet you do too) but half way through typing it I went to my gunrack to pull down an original 92 to take a picture of it to show --- also took the 71 down, cycled it and hey ! it dont have that recess underneath - kinda puzzled I was so I spent some time searching parts diagrams for an original 71 and they sposed to have it (like I thought) -- soooo for then that havent figured this out - as we cycle these winnies - the first bit of leverstroke - there is a kind of hump under the bolt just in front of where the hammer strikes and that pushes the hammer down into the full cock notch then as we open the action further the recessed part on underside of the bolt runs clear of the top of the hammer till towards end of the lever stroke - that miroku was stiff beacuse for the entire lever stroke the bolt was bearing down on the mainspring via the hammer nose - the bolt was pushed up at the back so the guide rails were half jammed in the action as it cycled
was this just a glitch in the CNC machining of my bolt? or did a batch of these get through the system because some brainiac thought they could save one more step in the process ? we will never know
2) Uberti 1876 - it worked fine, good wood to metal fit - attractive CCH - beautiful barrel - scary accurate for a big blackpowder gun - just a shame it had a thirteen pound trigger pull - I blame the lawyers for that (one of the tests for Aussie import is they drop it while cocked and if the piece fires it gets sent back to Italy - this one passed the test with flying colours - I fixed it - no big deal - your blokes would just order a spring set from the cowboy shop
3) The Chiappa - well I bought it well under the money - unmarked - had fired six shots - story was the guy brought it back because it kicked and he backtraded it for a lever shotgun - it wouldnt feed at all - I could have taken it back - got my money back - they woulda hung it on the wall and proly took another hundred off it - OR got it fixed - I made the choice to fix it - my choice - and glad I did - most fellers are scared up gutting an 1886 - I had that thing undone and back together more times than your fingers and toes - so I identified the problem, figured out the fix, did the work, - got me an attractive sweet shooting 1886 out of it - am pleased with my effort. And I dont have to worry whether that 120 year old steel is gonna quit on me if I feed it a couple of warm loads.

I think we suffer from the effect that the people making these guns have got absolutely no idea how they sposed to function (or it seems so)

[Baltimoreed]

I’ve been shooting cas matches for 20+ years and have only one original, an 1873 Winchester 1890s musket. I shoot it in several matches a year. All my others are Marlins 1894s, uberti ‘73s-a ‘66 musket-a ‘76 NWMP carbine and a 1970’s 1895 Browning that I plan on putting into a full military stock sometime this year. The old guns in pistol calibers should be fine with light loads but these antiques in rifle calibers need black unless they were actually built for smokeless. My favorite is my Marlin cowboy in .45lc, the prettiest is the 1866 brass frame musket and the 1895 in 30-06 and 1876 NWMP in 45-60 are tied for thump. Great rifles.

[Bent Ramrod]

There is a skewing of the comparison that a certain amount of time puts into the equation. George Grotz referred to it in his books on antique furniture, hand, vs. machine made.

The owners who rhapsodized about their hand-made Chippendales conveniently ignored the fact that bulk of the handmade stuff came apart within a generation or less of use and went into the stove as firewood. Only the soundest survived, and you’d do well not to throw yourself into that chair or couch, even now. On the other hand, a lot more of the machine-made stuff seems to soldier on, despite its “inferior” workmanship. The “average” of machine vs hand made, was better quality, given the total number made, not the total surviving examples.

Same thing happened with rock&roll music. To listen to an “oldies” station, you would think it was a Golden Age of talent and creativity (if you like the genre, of course). But I remember when the stuff first came out, and most of it was every bit the brain-rot our elders warned us against.

The hand labor that could be lavished on things back when a “living wage” was $20 a month, or during the Depression, when Linden or Griffin and Howe would do their magic for a couple hundred dollars or less, is beyond the reach of most of us now. My level of “affordability” doesn’t allow me the well-cared-for, 75% original finish, specimens of the good-quality originals. The poor-condition examples I can afford have balky actions, heavy triggers and all the other woes that others complain bout in their replica examples. I haven’t had any of the problems with Uberti revolvers and Pedersoli replica rifles that others on Line have. I had to gingerly work down the triggers of two original, no-finish SA Colts just to get them within a pound or two of what the worst of my Italian replicas came with out of the box. Pietta, admittedly, got off to a rocky start, but seems to be as good as anything else now. And Shiloh and the other American replicas are better made and finished than all but the highest-grade originals, if what I see at Gun Shows is accurate.

I have and continue to learn a lot trying to get original wrecks back into shooting condition, but if I was starting out now (at current prices for originals) and just wanted to shoot the old patterns (which was my original interest anyway), I would be “all replicas, all the time.”

[Kev18]

Kev
No not ok with it but downunder we dont got a lot of options - get to fix stuff ourselves most times.

1) the Browning Miroku 71- these generally have a good reputation - it looked nice and it shot good - trigger was good - action was stiff and clunky - I thought it would loosen up over time - had not shot it a lot (maybe 350 rounds the first couple of years) then pretty much parked it, maybe a box or two of twenty per year - someone on the forums here posed a question "what is the recess on the underside of the bolt of a model 92 for" well I knew the answer ( I bet you do too) but half way through typing it I went to my gunrack to pull down an original 92 to take a picture of it to show --- also took the 71 down, cycled it and hey ! it dont have that recess underneath - kinda puzzled I was so I spent some time searching parts diagrams for an original 71 and they sposed to have it (like I thought) -- soooo for then that havent figured this out - as we cycle these winnies - the first bit of leverstroke - there is a kind of hump under the bolt just in front of where the hammer strikes and that pushes the hammer down into the full cock notch then as we open the action further the recessed part on underside of the bolt runs clear of the top of the hammer till towards end of the lever stroke - that miroku was stiff beacuse for the entire lever stroke the bolt was bearing down on the mainspring via the hammer nose - the bolt was pushed up at the back so the guide rails were half jammed in the action as it cycled
was this just a glitch in the CNC machining of my bolt? or did a batch of these get through the system because some brainiac thought they could save one more step in the process ? we will never know
2) Uberti 1876 - it worked fine, good wood to metal fit - attractive CCH - beautiful barrel - scary accurate for a big blackpowder gun - just a shame it had a thirteen pound trigger pull - I blame the lawyers for that (one of the tests for Aussie import is they drop it while cocked and if the piece fires it gets sent back to Italy - this one passed the test with flying colours - I fixed it - no big deal - your blokes would just order a spring set from the cowboy shop
3) The Chiappa - well I bought it well under the money - unmarked - had fired six shots - story was the guy brought it back because it kicked and he backtraded it for a lever shotgun - it wouldnt feed at all - I could have taken it back - got my money back - they woulda hung it on the wall and proly took another hundred off it - OR got it fixed - I made the choice to fix it - my choice - and glad I did - most fellers are scared up gutting an 1886 - I had that thing undone and back together more times than your fingers and toes - so I identified the problem, figured out the fix, did the work, - got me an attractive sweet shooting 1886 out of it - am pleased with my effort. And I dont have to worry whether that 120 year old steel is gonna quit on me if I feed it a couple of warm loads.

I think we suffer from the effect that the people making these guns have got absolutely no idea how they sposed to function (or it seems so)

That last sentence can't be more true. People making them aren'y gunsmith or even have any idea how a gun works. They just crank out parts on machines.

[Kev18]

I’ve been shooting cas matches for 20+ years and have only one original, an 1873 Winchester 1890s musket. I shoot it in several matches a year. All my others are Marlins 1894s, uberti ‘73s-a ‘66 musket-a ‘76 NWMP carbine and a 1970’s 1895 Browning that I plan on putting into a full military stock sometime this year. The old guns in pistol calibers should be fine with light loads but these antiques in rifle calibers need black unless they were actually built for smokeless. My favorite is my Marlin cowboy in .45lc, the prettiest is the 1866 brass frame musket and the 1895 in 30-06 and 1876 NWMP in 45-60 are tied for thump. Great rifles.

No Issue with smokeless in old firearms. You can get way more precise and controlled loads with it. If you know what you are doing, you can get way lower pressures then actual BP. I run all smokeless in my rifles and they are all antiques. People always say that its dangerous because most people don't do any research and will load 44-40 like 44 mag with the same powder. It's safer for everyone saying that its not possible. I even use smokeless for a damascus barrel shotgun. No issues,

[mart]

I'm mixed in my feelings regarding originals versus modern reproductions. I had a Rossi 92, 45 Colt that shot great but didn't set my hear aflutter. I have Browning/Miroku reproductions of the 65, 53 and 1886 Extra Lightweight that I truly enjoy. I know I couldn't touch an original of any of them, in the same condition, for what I paid for the reproductions. And each of them is superbly accurate. A friend's Browning 71 will shoot circles around my original 71.

The originals of course take the day when you want to own one of the less common chamberings. There are no reproduction 40-82s or 38-72s and no gun company is going to build a new 86 in 33 Winchester.

I agree 100% with Shrapnel on shooting the old ones. They were made for that purpose. It pains me to know of scores of old lever guns that sit in safes and never see the light of a cold fall morning.

It comes down to they're all fun. I love getting old ones shooting again. Levers, bolts, revolvers, it doesn't matter. They need to be shot. I like having the reproductions because it lets me have some fun with some lever guns I wouldn't otherwise get an chance to play with if I had to wait on an affordable original.

[Eddie Southgate]

I like both . The originals would always be first choice if I had a bigger budget but I don't and there is nothing wrong with the current crop of repros with the exception of the fake Remington Marlins . I own a couple of pre Remington Jm Marlins and want one of the Burgess repros and another Jm to convert to 38-55 . They are all good and all fun to own and shoot .

[Kev18]

I like both . The originals would always be first choice if I had a bigger budget but I don't and there is nothing wrong with the current crop of repros with the exception of the fake Remington Marlins . I own a couple of pre Remington Jm Marlins and want one of the Burgess repros and another Jm to convert to 38-55 . They are all good and all fun to own and shoot .

One thing I like about repro's or just newer guns is that I don't need to think before modifying them. They still make parts, and they aren't rare.

[indian joe]

No Issue with smokeless in old firearms. You can get way more precise and controlled loads with it. If you know what you are doing, you can get way lower pressures then actual BP. I run all smokeless in my rifles and they are all antiques. People always say that its dangerous because most people don't do any research and will load 44-40 like 44 mag with the same powder. It's safer for everyone saying that its not possible. I even use smokeless for a damascus barrel shotgun. No issues,

Kev
I was gonna go smokeless with my 76 repro, even cut a bunch of cases to a different (shorter) length so I could load a different shape projectile, with a proper crimp groove, and I would know immediately when I picked them up whether I had black or smokeless loads.

But about the same time some fellers on the blackpowder board helped me get going making my own - that worked out really well and now I am too cheapskate to want to mess with smokeless - I can put a full magazine through that Uberti and make a good group to the end (without cleaning) - so long as I dont go too fast and get it hot - those big blackpowder loads heat a barrel fast - my powder cost per load is under two cents - the gun is scary accurate if I knuckle down and try - cleanup is less than five minutes and I like handling the thing anyway so smokeless is out - have more or less gone the same track for the same reason with my 86 - just use a little duplex load in it as the barrel is not quite as shiny nice as the uberti so it fouls a bit sooner on straight black. I enjoy the whole process with these big lever guns - handling them - shooting them - loading for them - none of it is a chore - i figure I have been blessed - lucky!!

[Kev18]

Kev
I was gonna go smokeless with my 76 repro, even cut a bunch of cases to a different (shorter) length so I could load a different shape projectile, with a proper crimp groove, and I would know immediately when I picked them up whether I had black or smokeless loads.

But about the same time some fellers on the blackpowder board helped me get going making my own - that worked out really well and now I am too cheapskate to want to mess with smokeless - I can put a full magazine through that Uberti and make a good group to the end (without cleaning) - so long as I dont go too fast and get it hot - those big blackpowder loads heat a barrel fast - my powder cost per load is under two cents - the gun is scary accurate if I knuckle down and try - cleanup is less than five minutes and I like handling the thing anyway so smokeless is out - have more or less gone the same track for the same reason with my 86 - just use a little duplex load in it as the barrel is not quite as shiny nice as the uberti so it fouls a bit sooner on straight black. I enjoy the whole process with these big lever guns - handling them - shooting them - loading for them - none of it is a chore - i figure I have been blessed - lucky!!

How do you make your powder? What do you use?

[BigEyeBob]

I have 4 lever guns ,two original winchesters in 44-40 full magazine rifles ,1873 made in 1889 ,in pristne conditon , a 1892 of 1910 vintage in very good condition ,a marlin 1895 in 45-70 ,1972 manufacture and in well used condition ,and finally a Rossi 92 clone stainless 24" octagonal barrel ,pretty new .I like them all .The two winchesters came from an estate sale , the 73 has done no work at all ,I doubt it had been fired for the time the original owner had it , some 80yrs I was told . The 92 has not fired many rounds , I have put one box of factory loads through it ,now hand loading cast for it. I havent fired the 73 as yet , but will eventually . The rossi required some work from new , new sights fitted , magazine spring shortened by 2 cartridge lengths ,and the mag tube secured with larger pin and deeper seated hole at the muzzle , complete strip of the action and cleaning of all sliding surfaces and lightly stoned ,trigger stoned and lightened slightly .The marlin was a lump of rust and blistered wood finish , fortunately the internals were not rusted like the exterior I paid 50 au dollars for it , it has been brought back to good condition and has had the trigger lightened , its my go to gun for pigs ,donkeys and scrub bulls . Some time in the future I will draw file all the exterior surfaces and give it a reblue ,current finish is a grey patina with some pitting.

[indian joe]

How do you make your powder? What do you use?

Theres all the info you need in a sticky at the head of the muzzle loader forum - just a couple of clicks away from here.
Tip - follow Fly's posts

[Kev18]

I miss going shooting. Winter is a good time for me, except I work when it snows! I want to go shoot, Im making a few loads too I want to try.
https://i.imgur.com/KwsjbfA.jpg

[veeman]

Is that an original Remmy 75?

[Kev18]

Is that an original Remmy 75?

Its an 1858 Navy. And yes. Original :)

[Andy45]

Great picture! :drinks:

[Kev18]

Great picture! :drinks:

Thanks :) I just took a picture for someone else because they asked what I made from leather. In the picture is just a few things :)

[winchester 71]

this is like having a blow up wife or a real human/warm wife...………...it ain't the same no matter how hard you trying to fool yourself....would you trade your original 1886 Winchester for a Mirookoo copy with the OSHA safety
and fool yourself into thinking you have a cheap copy of the real thing...…..naw it will never be anything but a copy...………………………..

[M-Tecs]

this is like having a blow up wife or a real human/warm wife...………...it ain't the same no matter how hard you trying to fool yourself....would you trade your original 1886 Winchester for a Mirookoo copy with the OSHA safety
and fool yourself into thinking you have a cheap copy of the real thing...…..naw it will never be anything but a copy...………………………..

And so what that it's a copy? Some copies are better than original, some are equal and some are inferior however they do the same thing. Short of collecting function is what matters. Your example of a wife verse a blow up doll would be valid if we were talking about a Nerf gun verse a real firearm.

OSHA has zero say in firearms design other than regulating safety in the work place.

The real question is how does it being a copy effect it's function? When I shoot SASS my Uberti 1873 rifle is a far better choice than my original 1873 Winchester rifle. I don't own an original 1873 Colt but I do have a bunch of clones that are better choice for that application.

Without the copies and clones very few people could afford originals. That would eliminate various shooting competitions like BPCR, SASS and a bunch of others.

[FLINTNFIRE]

What did osha do in japan , nothing , it is a sue crazed society that had the corporate office add a safety , and my uberti 1886 or the 1873 rifles do not have any tang or push safety , and the 1873 uberti and pietta 1873 pistols with the push cylinder pin in deeper are easily fixed .

I like the uberti , pretty , wood and blue or case color , functions , was affordable , was not worn out , better metal , at the cost of an original not all can afford them , even the modern made ones are not cheap and some bemoan the fact of people using ar15 instead of lever actions , well cost does matter and so does caliber cost to shoot , enjoy whatever suits your desires , heck I have a ex brother in law with a 1886 rifle 45-70 excellent condition , but that one will not sell cheap , it was shot yes but it was well cared for , yes I would like it but not at the price it will go for .

[alamogunr]

I was going to comment but decided it wouldn't change anyone's mind. I'm satisfied(and I'm sure I'll be condemned for that) with my Browning Miroku Model 71, Browning Miroku Model 95 in .30-40, Browning B92 .44 Mag and Rossi Model 92 .357. Yes, I wish as modern manufactured arms they had used different twist barrels but it is what it is.

[indian joe]

this is like having a blow up wife or a real human/warm wife...………...it ain't the same no matter how hard you trying to fool yourself....would you trade your original 1886 Winchester for a Mirookoo copy with the OSHA safety
and fool yourself into thinking you have a cheap copy of the real thing...…..naw it will never be anything but a copy...………………………..

So he bought a copy ...................what are guns for ? I thought for shooting with, not for hanging on the wall to brag over

the copy is better quality steel, more accurate barrel, some of em more attractive externally than the originals were,

If you have a shootable original and use it as such you have a firearm that is inferior in almost every way to the best of the copies.

If you are a collector and have high value collectables - what do you have? you got the leftover one that some wannabee a hundred years ago bought with spare cash and hid in a closet - the well used old ones are all wore out, rusted out or blown up.

Except for the lawyer safety stuff the copies all honour the original design and function but vastly superior mettalurgy - I dont see where the problem is .

[trails4u]

"If you have a shootable original and use it as such you have a firearm that is inferior in almost every way to the best of the copies.

If you are a collector and have high value collectables - what do you have? you got the leftover one that some wannabee a hundred years ago bought with spare cash and hid in a closet - the well used old ones are all wore out, rusted out or blown up."

I don't know why I'd even wade into this......I guess it's past my bedtime. But...for some of us, history matters. I'll stop there...anything else I'm thinking of adding isn't nice, but I will say your perspective of originals is clearly coming from someone who hasn't/doesn't own nor shoot an original.

[M-Tecs]

Yes history matters to some of us. That is why I DO NOT use originals for things like SASS competition. Why take a piece of history wear it out? I have at least a dozen firearms manufactured between 1860 and 1920. I do my best to preserve them as a piece of history. Yes I do shoot them and if the weather is nice they may get used for hunting. They do not nor will they ever see rough weather or rough usage like I subject the modern copies too.

The metallurgy in most pre-1920 firearms is inferior to even the junkiest modern copies. My first Winchester 1897 was manufactured in 1903. It was rough on the outside but it had not been shot much so I cut it down for SASS. It didn't last long with that type of usage. Even the cheapest Chinese clone would have outlasted the original 20 times over.

Same for BPCR. If I could find an original that was accurate enough and configured properly to be competitive the cost would be at least 10 fold more and service life would be less.

Early barrels weren't the greatest and they tend to be soft so jacketed bullets are hard on them.

Both originals and clones have their place. They both have their strengths and weakness.

[indian joe]

"If you have a shootable original and use it as such you have a firearm that is inferior in almost every way to the best of the copies.

If you are a collector and have high value collectables - what do you have? you got the leftover one that some wannabee a hundred years ago bought with spare cash and hid in a closet - the well used old ones are all wore out, rusted out or blown up."

I don't know why I'd even wade into this......I guess it's past my bedtime. But...for some of us, history matters. I'll stop there...anything else I'm thinking of adding isn't nice, but I will say your perspective of originals is clearly coming from someone who hasn't/doesn't own nor shoot an original.

I thought it was fair return for the blow up doll comment
just so ya know we have an original 73 clunker we rebarreled plus 3 model 92's that are shot regular, one a good enough plinker as is, the other two rebarreled - one of em I build into a 38/40 from a 25/20 frame - had an early Rossi 92 and several other 92's that have moved on - I have the three bigframe open top winchesters (71,76,86) in quality shootable copies - for about what it would cost for a mediocre condition shootable 86 - that would be a bad trade in my opinion - you choose different thats fine - no call to put rubbish on the blokes that choose to shoot quality modern made replicas like mr 71 did.

As far as the collectors go I stick by my comment, the best of em (mint condition and high grade pieces) are guns that never got used for their intended purpose. Soulless things that dont have an honest story of work - some feller with too much loot wants to pay half a million for one of those ? good luck to him - but he wont shoot it so whats the point ?

[Kev18]

I guess im the only one that uses everything equally. I really couldnt care less. I bought it, so its going out. My only modern levergun is a marlin 1894, that I paid 700$ for. But I really wanted a .44 mag at the time... for some reason? I couldnt care less about it. I plant it in the snow and use it like its meant to be. I just dont have a "connection" to it as all my originals.
Not to mention I use my originals the same. Except il clean, lube dry, and take alot better care of them.

My 1886 is well worth 3000$, I got multiple offers on it. I use it every weekend. Rain, snow -40... I dont care.
I paid my 1873 3000$... Fully nickel plated. Use it just the same. Keep in mind it needs to be dried as soon as I get inside.

To me, these are very expensive. I know some of you pay hundreds of thousands for rifles, but I can't sadly.

I 100% DO NOT AGREE with the lesser quality Originals. The only thing il say is that the metal is of lesser quality, compared to todays. Absolutely no issues using factory loads which are plenty to kill anything in north america. I dont need 2800 fps on a 400 grain boolit. I know people love those though...

All my votes are on originals, I can't see how its possible to use them up... I can't imagine shooting out a barrel and mine was made in 1889. Its an easy care process, smokeless or BP. Iv'e shot thousands of loads just in my '86.

P.S: Fun little argument/ clash of opinions here. Keep it going :goodpost::dung_hits_fan:

[indian joe]

I guess im the only one that uses everything equally. I really couldnt care less. I bought it, so its going out. My only modern levergun is a marlin 1894, that I paid 700$ for. But I really wanted a .44 mag at the time... for some reason? I couldnt care less about it. I plant it in the snow and use it like its meant to be. I just dont have a "connection" to it as all my originals.
Not to mention I use my originals the same. Except il clean, lube dry, and take alot better care of them.

My 1886 is well worth 3000$, I got multiple offers on it. I use it every weekend. Rain, snow -40... I dont care.
I paid my 1873 3000$... Fully nickel plated. Use it just the same. Keep in mind it needs to be dried as soon as I get inside.

To me, these are very expensive. I know some of you pay hundreds of thousands for rifles, but I can't sadly.

I 100% DO NOT AGREE with the lesser quality Originals. The only thing il say is that the metal is of lesser quality, compared to todays. Absolutely no issues using factory loads which are plenty to kill anything in north america. I dont need 2800 fps on a 400 grain boolit. I know people love those though...

All my votes are on originals, I can't see how its possible to use them up... I can't imagine shooting out a barrel and mine was made in 1889. Its an easy care process, smokeless or BP. Iv'e shot thousands of loads just in my '86.

P.S: Fun little argument/ clash of opinions here. Keep it going :goodpost::dung_hits_fan:

Kev
My snarky remarks were aimed at the blow up doll bloke and I made sure to quote his bit in my reply - somebody else got offended (this not directed at you) - too bad - read the thing properly and get over it .

now about burnt out barrels I agree - cant imagine shooting out a barrel using lead boolits and cleaning the thing properly - I have two explanations that both dont include cleaning it properly - I think those old barrels got rotted out, either from not cleaning after shooting blackpowder rounds (the gun got put aside and forgot to clean it) either that or corrosive priming - that was a big deal even up until my early days with some ammo - I have had several 92's and a couple of 73's obviously been used hard, actions still ok, but barrel stuffed - these were mostly picked up from outback properties where they were a tool. The first lever gun I got I bought with my first pay packet when I was still 15 yrs old - a mate of mine had inherited it off an uncle, old uncle loved that little carbine, it was wore out, must have been cycled a million times, ridiculous headspace, but the barrel shot great - I think he cleaned it properly.

I agree with you on using them too - what use is a gun that you cant or dont shoot? Mine all get looked after as well as I can do it no favourites and no safe queens.

I saw a decent shootable 86 in our LGS maybe six years ago, they got $4500 for it, three years later in the same shop I got an almost new Chiappa (bit of a project gun but I dont mind that - actually liked it) paid $1850 - that was a stretch of the budget - the original was an unjustifiable price - and by the time I got the Chiappa the original was more likely $7k. I dont invest in guns with the idea of resale - when I get one I want it comes home and stays home

[Kev18]

Kev
My snarky remarks were aimed at the blow up doll bloke and I made sure to quote his bit in my reply - somebody else got offended (this not directed at you) - too bad - read the thing properly and get over it .

now about burnt out barrels I agree - cant imagine shooting out a barrel using lead boolits and cleaning the thing properly - I have two explanations that both dont include cleaning it properly - I think those old barrels got rotted out, either from not cleaning after shooting blackpowder rounds (the gun got put aside and forgot to clean it) either that or corrosive priming - that was a big deal even up until my early days with some ammo - I have had several 92's and a couple of 73's obviously been used hard, actions still ok, but barrel stuffed - these were mostly picked up from outback properties where they were a tool. The first lever gun I got I bought with my first pay packet when I was still 15 yrs old - a mate of mine had inherited it off an uncle, old uncle loved that little carbine, it was wore out, must have been cycled a million times, ridiculous headspace, but the barrel shot great - I think he cleaned it properly.

I agree with you on using them too - what use is a gun that you cant or dont shoot? Mine all get looked after as well as I can do it no favourites and no safe queens.

I saw a decent shootable 86 in our LGS maybe six years ago, they got $4500 for it, three years later in the same shop I got an almost new Chiappa (bit of a project gun but I dont mind that - actually liked it) paid $1850 - that was a stretch of the budget - the original was an unjustifiable price - and by the time I got the Chiappa the original was more likely $7k. I dont invest in guns with the idea of resale - when I get one I want it comes home and stays home

I dont intend on resale either. I love them all equally. Hopefully the day never comes that I would NEED to sell them.
Was the chiappa abit expensive? I dont know anything about repros, but around here, you can get a really good shape original for 2000$.

[smkummer]

I prefer used originals over nicer finished moderns. Currently my exceptions to this is a urberti Burgess in 45 colt that I use for cowboy action and a H&R officers model trapdoor 45-70. I may trade the burgess if I get an original that I will shoot, that may be a long stretch. But 20k for an original officers model Springfield isn’t going to happen.

[.45colt]

Buy what You want new or old and shoot All You can while Your Upright...... A Friend of mine passed a few years ago He had been collecting Savage 99's and Winchester 88's for forty years had a few odd ball things like original Win 1895 src and a bunch of revolvers. He had around fifty original rifles,most He never shot. At His estate sale the gun buyers looked like a bunch of Vultures on a kill. It was sad. He didn't take even one with Him.

[indian joe]

I dont intend on resale either. I love them all equally. Hopefully the day never comes that I would NEED to sell them.
Was the chiappa abit expensive? I dont know anything about repros, but around here, you can get a really good shape original for 2000$.

Kev I was quoting aussie dollar - currently converting at 1AU$= 0.67U$ so no I dont think the Chiappa was overpriced - it had fired six rounds and was unmarked - retail at the time was $2350 (I think)

except for feral water buffalo in the far tropical north there was no animal on this continent tough enough to need anything the size of the big winchesters so we dont see them as originals -- plenty of 92's and 73's were common enough but an original 76 or 86 ? extremely rare downunder

there were a good number of 450/577 martinis and the 577 snider - both military issue

I would have bought a good shape original for 2K at the time but they easily bring twice or three times that ----shootable model 92's are still relatively inexpensive - most that we see are 32/20 so the Cowboy action thing never blew the price of those out too much and we also are banned from shipping these to the US which helps keep a lid on prices.

[elmacgyver0]

All I have are a couple Rossi's, a 94 Winchester 30-30, a Henry 22, and a cheap Chinese copy of a 1887 lever shotgun.
Nothing fancy or valuable but they are mine and I like them.

[M-Tecs]

All I have are a couple Rossi's, a 94 Winchester 30-30, a Henry 22, and a cheap Chinese copy of a 1887 lever shotgun.
Nothing fancy or valuable but they are mine and I like them.

And that is what it is all about and you are creating your own history with them.

I have a couple of originals that have some documented actual "history" but that "history" is from people I didn't know and events I didn't participate in. Dollar wise they have significant value and I limit the type and amount of shooting they receive to preserve both the history and monetary value but they really mean very little to me. Now my Dad's plain Jane Model 12, Remington 721 and High Standard HD Military have far more importance to me than any other firearm I own.

[trails4u]

I thought it was fair return for the blow up doll comment
just so ya know we have an original 73 clunker we rebarreled plus 3 model 92's that are shot regular, one a good enough plinker as is, the other two rebarreled - one of em I build into a 38/40 from a 25/20 frame - had an early Rossi 92 and several other 92's that have moved on - I have the three bigframe open top winchesters (71,76,86) in quality shootable copies - for about what it would cost for a mediocre condition shootable 86 - that would be a bad trade in my opinion - you choose different thats fine - no call to put rubbish on the blokes that choose to shoot quality modern made replicas like mr 71 did.

As far as the collectors go I stick by my comment, the best of em (mint condition and high grade pieces) are guns that never got used for their intended purpose. Soulless things that dont have an honest story of work - some feller with too much loot wants to pay half a million for one of those ? good luck to him - but he wont shoot it so whats the point ?

I'm with you on the collector variety safe queens. Won't do it. I shoot everything I own....even some that would make some folks squirm a little bit. I treat them well....but won't 'shelter' them.. They deserve to live their life as intended.

[Kev18]

I'm with you on the collector variety safe queens. Won't do it. I shoot everything I own....even some that would make some folks squirm a little bit. I treat them well....but won't 'shelter' them.. They deserve to live their life as intended.

Imagine spending thousands on something and not using it... I cant do it. Alot of people do this with cars. They will work all there life to afford a dream car. Once bought, they wont use it. One can argue that its their property so they can do what they wish, which is 100% true but I found that those people are the ones that care most about resale value, which is a shame. People can't fully enjoy what they have because they always think about the money.

[TCLouis]

If I own it, it is a shooter pure and simple.
1886 original from 96, Navy Armsor Numrich (forget which) produced Remington Rolling Block and a new last week Marlin 1895.

They see only lead projies one and all.

My Contender (16") pistol sees only 300 grain HPs at 1565 fps.

I have a 303 Martini and Rem Rolling Block action that I have had for a while with the intent of making a "Sporter weight 45-70", but guess I will just sell them now with the addition of my 1895 for a lightweight gun.

[44WCFKID]

I gre up with my dad's 92 in 38-40 so my first lever gun was a Taylors (ASM) 92 in 44-40. Its a Work of Art! Feel so light and nimble, its still my favorite. I shoot Classic Cowboy in SASS, that means 1873 and older so I have 44-40 Uberti Cimarron's, an 1866 and 1873, both Fine shooters as well as an 1886 in 45-90 and 1866 in 44-40 from Miroku. I'm NOT a fan of the mirokus, the 66 is ok but plain, the 86 is just clunky. In all, I like shooting my guns so only re-po's for me. I'd be too afraid to damage an antique but I SURE like handling and looking at them. I shoot Holey Black in everything including my CZ Hammer Coach and Chinese 1887 lever shotgun. The Chinese gun needs a lot of final finishing but its smooth as glass and the CZ is a fine piece of workmanship that can handle 3" shells.

[Kev18]

I gre up with my dad's 92 in 38-40 so my first lever gun was a Taylors (ASM) 92 in 44-40. Its a Work of Art! Feel so light and nimble, its still my favorite. I shoot Classic Cowboy in SASS, that means 1873 and older so I have 44-40 Uberti Cimarron's, an 1866 and 1873, both Fine shooters as well as an 1886 in 45-90 and 1866 in 44-40 from Miroku. I'm NOT a fan of the mirokus, the 66 is ok but plain, the 86 is just clunky. In all, I like shooting my guns so only re-po's for me. I'd be too afraid to damage an antique but I SURE like handling and looking at them. I shoot Holey Black in everything including my CZ Hammer Coach and Chinese 1887 lever shotgun. The Chinese gun needs a lot of final finishing but its smooth as glass and the CZ is a fine piece of workmanship that can handle 3" shells.

I dont like to shoot BP, thats something that will eat up the steel. I only use smokeless. If you forget a small portion of powder in a hole or crack somewhere, in a week you'll comeback and it will be quite rusty.

[indian joe]

I dont like to shoot BP, thats something that will eat up the steel. I only use smokeless. If you forget a small portion of powder in a hole or crack somewhere, in a week you'll comeback and it will be quite rusty.

Kev
the way you care for your guns I dont believe blackpowder would cause you any problems at all - its certainly not something you should be scared of - cleanup is quick and easy - just needs to do it is all.

[Kev18]

Kev
the way you care for your guns I dont believe blackpowder would cause you any problems at all - its certainly not something you should be scared of - cleanup is quick and easy - just needs to do it is all.

I use bp in my original 1858, and dont mind in old DB shotguns since its really easy cleaning. But if powder gets in the action of a rifle or even alittle forgotten in the rifling, it can cause issues. I know some people have an extremely different opinion to me. I dont even know how to clean a rifle from BP usage. People make jigs to hold them up but it seems time consuming.

[35 Whelen]

I use bp in my original 1858, and dont mind in old DB shotguns since its really easy cleaning. But if powder gets in the action of a rifle or even alittle forgotten in the rifling, it can cause issues. I know some people have an extremely different opinion to me. I dont even know how to clean a rifle from BP usage. People make jigs to hold them up but it seems time consuming.

Black powder cleanup is fairly easy, actually. Ballistol cut 7/1 with water cleans blackpowder very well. Just mix it, pour it in a spray bottle and spray the innards of the rifle. Some put it on patches to clean the bore, but I plug the barrel, spray it full of the mixture, let it sit for a minute or two, pour it out and wipe the bore dry. It's a water based oil so it will actually protect the metal.

35W

[44WCFKID]

I've been shooting BP for over 40 years. I've never had any issues with corrosion shooting muzzle loaders, cap and ball, cartridge and shotgun. I clean my guns, smokeless and BP after I shoot them. I've found PB easier to clean than smokeless anyway, dish-soap, ballistol and water, nothing special!

[Kev18]

I've been shooting BP for over 40 years. I've never had any issues with corrosion shooting muzzle loaders, cap and ball, cartridge and shotgun. I clean my guns, smokeless and BP after I shoot them. I've found PB easier to clean than smokeless anyway, dish-soap, ballistol and water, nothing special!

Do you just put water down the barrel? Enlighten me.

[indian joe]

Do you just put water down the barrel? Enlighten me.

257109
Kev
I made a fold up cleaning cradle to take away to matches - See the flush bottle behind it ? Spout off a tube of caulking goop, large coke bottle, piece of plastic tube

so ..hold the riflle muzzle down and poke the plastic tube a little way in the chamber, squeeze some water through, put the rifle in the rack upside down (shove a couple dry patches in the action if you like - I usually skip that) push one damp patch through from muzzle using a solid rod with a muzzle protector/guard fitted - only one pass

now take the rifle out of the rack, muzzle to the ground and another cycle with the flush bottle

Back to the rack, and another damp patch - maybe a couple strokes

hold the rifle and another cycle with the flush bottle

back in the rack and dry patch it - maybe takes three patches (an older bore might take more patches or even need another pass/cycle of flush and patch) then when you have it clean and dry - soak a patch in whatever you use for bore oil (despite lots of serious advice against it from well meaning experts here, all I use is WD40, it doesnt gunk up my bore and my guns dont rust)

This whole thing sounds like an complicated rigamarole, but its not, I leave the cleaning rack, container of patches, cleaning rod, flush bottle and spare container of water on a little bench in my machinery shed - the whole deal with the 76 in the picture takes less than five minutes

I use water at room temperature, might put a drop of dish wash in a gallon but dont think you need it, I tear up old flannelette bedsheets for patches, about 2 - 2and a half inches square and keep them in a closed container (plastic Ice cream), cleaning rod is a homemade deal with a brass jag, you might wanna use a brass wire brush - I dont, The last dry patch I always make squeaky tight and check it closely for any little flakes of lead - if ya see that then deal with it clean till its out! - then load an overpowder wad and more/better lube for starters

[trails4u]

I'm with joe on this one..... If it was built to shoot BP, then I feed it BP. Not scary at all. My cleaning methods are slightly different, but not enough to elaborate over. Water, dish soap, ballistol, oil of choice to finish. That's my entire kit. Try it....you'll LOVE it!!

[Kev18]

I'm with joe on this one..... If it was built to shoot BP, then I feed it BP. Not scary at all. My cleaning methods are slightly different, but not enough to elaborate over. Water, dish soap, ballistol, oil of choice to finish. That's my entire kit. Try it....you'll LOVE it!!

I have shot BP before. It's fun and all but very messy. I originally tried it in my 86 but couldn't hit a paper ten feet away. So I tried to come up with a smokeless load, and I did. But it took two years of insane research. There's. A thread about it in this section of the forum. Odd calibers are fun but require TLC.

[smkummer]

Buy what You want new or old and shoot All You can while Your Upright...... A Friend of mine passed a few years ago He had been collecting Savage 99's and Winchester 88's for forty years had a few odd ball things like original Win 1895 src and a bunch of revolvers. He had around fifty original rifles,most He never shot. At His estate sale the gun buyers looked like a bunch of Vultures on a kill. It was sad. He didn't take even one with Him.

I guess in some ways I was one of those vultures going to estate auctions here in So. Indiana in the late 90’s early 2000’s. When it gets down to it, these cherished firearms are ours to reside with, then they will go to someone else. They will go to someone else in whatever condition they get them. Now my collection has matured and they get shot, even 1890s produced firearms with low pressure smokeless and lead bullets.