45 acp cast loads

[Jniedbalski]

Just tried out some cast loads in my Springfield 45 acp. For now the best shooting which surprised me was lee’s black powder conical pistole bullet 90382. It’s a 450 200 gr 1R meant for a six shot black powder revolver. The base of the bullet measures.450 the middle band is .454 and the top is .457 I sized it to .452. I used this bullet with a load of bullseye from 4 gr to 4.4 .if I remember I used pure lead or close to it .I only shot 10 and 15 yards but this 200 gr bullet shot really good. It sucks it’s a single cavity mold. The lee 230 gr rn also shot really good 90351 .just wanted every body to know how good this bullet is . It’s not made for the 45 acp but for 44 black powder pistols like the 1851 navy and the 1858 Remington. I lubed it with white label lube 45/45-10 Xlox. I was going to sell this mold but now found a use for it. Next Iam going to try another odd ball mold . It’s a brand new never used Lyman 454190 made for the 45 colt. A co worker gave me this mold that his father bought new 50 to 60 years ago and never used. Found out it’s the classic bullet for the 45 colt. people use it for 45 acp for bowling pin matches but Iam going to load light just for paper to see how it does. Can’t beat a free mold.

[shootinfox2]

Lee 200 gr SWC over 6 gr promo/red dot. Excellent function with a mid range load for practice. Accurate out to at least 15 yards.

[Jniedbalski]

I shot that bullet also today. Had problems of the slide not going all the way in to battery. I thought I sized all of them before I lubed them at .452 Going to have to get the lee factory crimp die or take them appart and re size them. Probably get the fcd and retry that bullet. Also bought some hard cast that I also shot and used today so got to See later which bullet it was. My hands got so cold shooting had to stop and go home.

[MT Gianni]

I am always surprised people shoot jacketed in the 45acp.

[Kraschenbirn]

Other than some factory JHPs through my LW Commander 'carry', I can't recall shooting jacketed in any of my 1911s since leaving the military; H&G 68s for my bullseye guns and 225 gr. TCs for 'major' in my IPSC 'stock class'...do have a couple of boxes of '60s-vintage 'M1911 Match', gifted to me by a retiring Nat'l Guard armorer, sitting on the shelf, though.

Bill

[mdi]

Going to have to get the lee factory crimp die or take them appart and re size them.
Find out what the problem is and fix it. Don't hide the problem with post crimping sizing...

[Burnt Fingers]

Lee 200 gr SWC over 6 gr promo/red dot. Excellent function with a mid range load for practice. Accurate out to at least 15 yards.

6 grains of Red Dot seems a bit hot. I'm running 3.8 gr under a 200 gr SWC. It functions every .45 ACP I've tried it in and it's a nice target load.

Right now I'm loading a lot of Clays. 3.7 gr Clays is running 100% and very accurate.

[Jniedbalski]

I did find the problem. All the lee mold bullets I sized fit and shoot fine. The berrys plated and the hard cast sized .452 from some hard cast company wont chamber in my differnt range pick up brass to big. When I got them I ran a few through my sizer no tight ones. So I loaded around 200 up. Now I have a few that won’t chamber to tight. So I can pull the bullets on the tight ones bullet puller broke, or order a fcd. I could also order a .451 sizer also and pull them then resize. New bullet puller is 20$+ or get fcd is 18$ . I had a few over size in the fmj I loaded. It was only three in about 400. Don’t know brand but all the ones I checked with my caliper where right on .452. The 3 over sized where .4535 . The factory crimp die will work with the few I have that are tight . Will have to sort cases if I use berrys plated again or run all through a sizer first.

[Littlewolf]

im fond of the 452374 sized .451 or the NOE 453-220-HP sized .451 over 5.3gr green dot havent had issues in RIA, high point, para ordinance, or even taurus. HOWEVER the lee 452-228-1R even sized .451 wont go into battery in any but the high point without encouraging the slide to fully close.

[Conditor22]

Don't have the mold but is lee 90382. It’s a 450 does it drop .452?

[Jniedbalski]

It’s a 90382 or a 90384. The 90382 on lee’s site said it’s a 200 gr and the 90384 is a 230 gr. If I remember correct the 382 is .450 and the 384 on lee’s site is .456 My bullet that i waighed is a 200 gr and tapers From back to front .450 at rear and .454 in the middle and .457 at the front. It’s a old single cavity with numbers that don’t match current lee’s numbers but it does say lee on it

[Jniedbalski]

Little wolf Wow I just ordered the lee .452 sizer and have been using it. Just started loading for the 45 so I guess I will find out if I need a .451 sizer. Hope not well it’s only another 26$ For die and shipping

[DonHowe]

I would not recommend the Lee Factory Crimp Die or any roll crimp for the .45 ACP. You want a taper crimp for that round.

On another note, 6 grains of Red Dot in the .45 ACP is NOT a midrange load! With Bullseye, Red Dot, 700X 3.8 to 4.5 grains is a midrange load. Actually I would prefer not to be close to someone firing a load of 6 grains of Red Dot.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Lyman 225 gr don't remember the number of the mold but 4.8 gr of 231 win is what I have been using in my Ruger sr1911

[Ed_Shot]

6 grains of Red Dot seems a bit hot. I'm running 3.8 gr under a 200 gr SWC. It functions every .45 ACP I've tried it in and it's a nice target load.

Right now I'm loading a lot of Clays. 3.7 gr Clays is running 100% and very accurate.

Agree....Lyman 4th lists Red Dot 5.5 gr. as MAX for any 200 gr. My standard for 200 gr. (452460 or 452630) paper punching is Promo 4.5 gr. @ 840 fps.

[Larry Gibson]

I I use 4 different 6 cavity lee moulds to cast bullets for use in my 45 ACPs and 45 Colts; 452-190-SWC, 452-230-TC, 452-200-SWC & 452-200-RF. All work very well in my 45 ACPs (M1911s, revolvers, Contender & Rhineland converted M98). I normally size them .452 for the ACPs but have to size .45a in a very tight "Match" chambered P14 which also doesn't feed the RF bullet well. I have the 456-220-1R in 2 cavity but have not tried in in the 45 ACP. It did ok in the 45 Webley I helped a guy load for though.

Suggestion for future posts; use the mould name instead of the product number. Not criticism, just that most of us can easily visualize the bullet by the name but few of us memorize or bother to look up mould product numbers. Few mould makers use product numbers, Lee being the obvious exception. I don't have a clue as to the product numbers of the Lee moulds I mentioned and wouldn't recognize any of those moulds that way. However, list the mould names and I'm spot on.

[JBinMN]

https://leeprecision.com/files/categories/bulletmolddesignation.jpg

The numbers for the Lee handgun molds & which type they are ( 2 cav,, 6 cav., etc. are below the image of each type of boolit.)

https://leeprecision.com/files/products/PistolBulletMolds.jpg

{Note - Lees rifle molds have a different page, but the same format: https://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/rifle-bullet-molds/

Black powder molds are here: https://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/black-powder-molds/ }

----------


BTW... - I posted last night about the Red Dot load data that was posted then, being about 6 grains with a 200 gr. boolit & I thought it was too much & went & checked. I posted the post with the data & then decided that perhaps I was being a bit to "forward" in doing so, thus I deleted that post. But I saved it & will repost it now, as it will offer a bit more info for those who wish to check out that load data.

Here is the post:



Lee 200 gr SWC over 6 gr promo/red dot. Excellent function with a mid range load for practice. Accurate out to at least 15 yards.

While that load might be great for you, Alliant suggests you do not go over 4.5 Red Dot as a Max load with a 200 gr. SWC, currently at their website load data:

45 Auto 200 gr Speer LSWC Speer 1.19 5 CCI 300 Red Dot 4.5 831

Source: http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=4&cartridge=35

Using the Castpics site for load data, all of the Alliant loads recommend the following:

AL Red Dot 45 ACP 185 185 JHP 5.9 940 1.27 19500 Alliant
AL Red Dot 45 ACP 230 230 JHP 5 820 1.23 19500 Alliant
AL Red Dot 45 ACP 200 200 JHP 5.2 890 1.17 19200 Alliant
AL Red Dot 45 ACP 240 240 JHP 4.5 770 1.21 19200 Alliant
AL Red Dot 45 ACP 155 155 Cast Lead 5.8 1155 1.27 18800 Alliant
AL Red Dot 45 ACP 230 230 FMC 5 910 1.19 16200 Alliant
AL Red Dot 45 ACP 180 180 LWC 4.8 900 1.19 14100 Alliant
AL Red Dot 45 ACP 230 230 L (Target) 4 810 1.19 12800 Alliant
AL Red Dot 45 ACP 200 200 LSW (Target) 4 805 Alliant

Note that all are below 6.0 grains MAX. or Red Dot.

{ The Bolded MAX. load data above is done by me for emphasis. I also bolded the 200 grain bullets/boolits as well for emphasis)}

Source: http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloaders-reference/load-lookup-by-powder

I am not saying or implying anyone or anything is wrong. I am only pointing out that the data supplied earlier as per the quote above, is not within the load data parameters of the manufacturer, Alliant, in regard to Red Dot powder, in current load data supplied by that manufacturer. I am only mentioning the difference between what was posted & what is offered by the manufacturer to point out the difference for possible SAFETY reasons.

{ As an aside.... I do not use a 200 grain bullet/boolit in my 45 ACP, but I have used a 230 gr for some time now ( Lee 230- 2R & 230- TC) & Red Dot(Promo) is one of the powders I use. I use 4.7 gr of R.D.( Promo) "Weighed" & not measured by volume, with an OAL of 1.25" with a RN & 1.18" with a TC, (IIRC) as the best for "My handgun". I have routinely tested from 4.5 to 4.9 grains Red Dot(Promo) & had no over-pressure issues nor a chronograph reading that is higher than would be expected using those amounts. While this amount of Red Dot/Promo is more than the recommended load data for a 230 gr. projectile, lead or otherwise, I "worked up that load", for "that firearm", testing as I went to make sure of no signs of over pressure by both the signs of the case/primer after firing, the felt recoil & the chronograph data, that indicated that the velocity was not extreme for the loads in THAT firearm using those loads at that time. YMMV doing load workup starting low & working up is always the suggested & safest way to work up a load for each firearm.

While I know that there are experienced folks reading & posting in this topic, there is also the potential for those who are not experienced to read what is written & since none of us want anyone to have a bad situation happen to anyone, making sure that those who do read these posts are given the best info as possible is a prudent thing to do.

I am reposting that post so that folks will know that it is likely that either it was a mistake in the amount of grains, or that the data was worked up by someone & it "worked for them", in "their" firearm & they were willing to take the risk of going over the recommended MAX. load of the powder manufacturer.

Being cautious in sharing load data is important & no one that I know of wants anyone to have a catastrophic disassembly of their firearm, not anyone injured or worse, due to passing on bad, or mistaken info. So, I recommend that folks take the time to research for themselves when offered data, just to confirm that the data offered is within reason for the caliber/platform that is being offered to be used in...

YMMV of course. I just repeat that being safe is best. Work up your loads carefully.
;)

[Divil]

With a 180-185gr. RNFP I like 4.5gr. Of Clays. Soft, accurate and will cycle on standard recoil springs.

[Finster101]

I use a copy of the HG-68 made by Mihec. It produces excellent 200 grain SWC boolits under four grains of Promo. It is a nice shooting load and cycles every .45acp I have which is several.

[onelight]

I did find the problem. All the lee mold bullets I sized fit and shoot fine. The berrys plated and the hard cast sized .452 from some hard cast company wont chamber in my differnt range pick up brass to big. When I got them I ran a few through my sizer no tight ones. So I loaded around 200 up. Now I have a few that won’t chamber to tight. So I can pull the bullets on the tight ones bullet puller broke, or order a fcd. I could also order a .451 sizer also and pull them then resize. New bullet puller is 20$+ or get fcd is 18$ . I had a few over size in the fmj I loaded. It was only three in about 400. Don’t know brand but all the ones I checked with my caliper where right on .452. The 3 over sized where .4535 . The factory crimp die will work with the few I have that are tight . Will have to sort cases if I use berrys plated again or run all through a sizer first.


I shot that bullet also today. Had problems of the slide not going all the way in to battery. I thought I sized all of them before I lubed them at .452 Going to have to get the lee factory crimp die or take them appart and re size them. Probably get the fcd and retry that bullet. Also bought some hard cast that I also shot and used today so got to See later which bullet it was. My hands got so cold shooting had to stop and go home.
You probably have checked , but are you certain it's not the ogive of the bullet that is causing the problem to long OAL for that chamber or a short case that is not getting all the flair removed.
The FCD will fix some issues but not an ogive OAL problem .
I use the FCD on all my 45 acp I have no leading or other problems from it . If I did I would stop.

[Boogieman]

The Lee #90384 is a 220gr. mold fo a Ruger Old Army, it casts .456" on the front band an 452" on the base. I have sized them .452 " for my 1991A1. just to see if they would work. They did fine. The Lyman #454190 is the old standard 45Colt bullet. Cast 250 +/-gr. properly sized they will work in a 45ACP. I shot some in a 1911A1 Colt about 50 years ago. Some of the bowling pin shooters were using them.

[DonHowe]

I ado not consider myself to be cowardly in terms of reloading. I have fired many thousand rounds of .45 ACP in competition, the majority using Bullseye but some with Red Dot and 231. I AM
cautious when it comes to the fast burning powders as pressures build rapidly. This is undoubtedly why action pistol shooters loading for major factor seem to prefer a bit slower powders like 231.
I have seen what happens when for whatever reason gas goes anywhere in a 1911 pistol other than out the muzzle, like grip panels blown off in the shooters hand.

[LenH]

I I am a bit partial to the H&G S242, a 160 gr SWC from Lino. but with HB alloy they come out in the neighborhood of 167 gr. The load for that bullet is 4.5 gr. Bullseye with a taper
crimp. Shoots great in Bullseye competition, I use it for slow fire and timed and rapid.

I shot tons of that 160 made by Valiant Bullets cast with a Magma Clone of the S242. I still have over 6K of those bullets, but since I came across with an 8 cavity H&G S242, I have been
castin my own.

[Jniedbalski]

I haven’t really looked in to my problem yet. I noticed some bullets I measured are to big that I still have in the box. Some of the hard cast where right on .452 some at .4535 .454. When I have time I will find out what is going on . It’s almost to cold for me to shoot now so will have time to find the problem. For now I don’t thank its OAL but it may be the issue also causing the problem.

[scattershot]

6 grains of Red Dot seems a bit hot. I'm running 3.8 gr under a 200 gr SWC. It functions every .45 ACP I've tried it in and it's a nice target load.

Right now I'm loading a lot of Clays. 3.7 gr Clays is running 100% and very accurate.

Agreed. I run 4.0 RD/200 myself, and find it to be accurate, and it cycles well in my pistols.

[Jniedbalski]

I also thought 6 gr or red dot was to much. I always look up a load in my books that I find on the net always have. I have even looked at some of Larry Gibson’s loads he posted and looked them up also in my books. I usually like at least two different books to look at before doing a load.

[scattershot]

6 grains sounds like a .45 Colt load.

[Larry Gibson]

6 gr Red Dot just puts a 200 gr cast bullet into the +P range. Under a 200 gr cast bullet in the 45 ACP 5.5 gr Red Dot is generally considered about max for a standard SAAMI MAP load and 5.0 - 5.5 gr under the 200 gr cast will make "major" for IPSC purposes.

[WRideout]

I have been happy with my Lyman 452460 mold as cast over 4.0 gr Red Dot/Promo. Recoil is not punishing, and accuracy is acceptable out of my Star PD pistol. Of course, I am only killing paper.
Wayne

[mdi]

I would not recommend the Lee Factory Crimp Die or any roll crimp for the .45 ACP. You want a taper crimp for that round.

https://leeprecision.com/carbide-factory-crimp-die-45acp.html

I can't understand why anyone would say a die manufacturer doesn't know what type of crimp is appropriate for a particular cartridge and include that crimp style with their crimping dies, no matter what kind. Read the second sentence in the product description linked above...

[Jniedbalski]

I found my problem. The crimp wasn’t enuf causing the case not to go all the way in to the chamber. I got a die from a ex co worker a retired Sargent from the local police department. It looked like a lee factory crimp die. It’s steel not carbide. It’s looks like a steel sizing die with a open top.its marked E Bair 45 ar 1 size. I slightly touched the outside case mouth with this die and all the loaded ammo fit the Wilson case guage he gave me to use. I didint adjust my die deep enuf to crimp or I didint crimp them at all. I seat and size in two different operations. Will try them out this weekend to see how they do. I never had a problem with any of my lee fcd . The die I was using looks new a RCBS 45 acp die. Most of my dies are lee so I may not of adjusted it enuf to crimp. Got a lee fcd in45 on order. The funny thang about this was I called my ex co worker jack up and said Jack I know you don’t have this but do you have a lee factory crimp die. He said call back in ten minutes will go to the basement to check. Ten minutes later I called back and he said well I don’t have a lee but I do have a 45 acp sizer and a Wilson case gage. He is the one that gave me all the fmj’s and hard cast bullets because he doesn’t shoot 45 any more. My son is coming home the 20 from the navy base in Pensacola fl. He is a marine and when he comes home I like th have ammo ready. We can really go through a bunch

[onelight]

What you describe is why I use the FCD if you load mixed lot and range brass there is enough difference in length to cause the situation you experienced the FCD will make those all work or you can trim them or sort by case length.
But the simplest solution is the FCD

[Jniedbalski]

You are right it was all mixed range brass. Some are thick and some very thin in the case mouth . I can feel it on seating the bullet or just in sizing the case is when I feel the difference the most . So case length is also all over the place also.this is why I really like the fcd . If the shell doesn’t chamber I first just touch the case mouth with it. If it still doesn’t chamber I can size the casing full length. If I have tension problems caused by full length sizing I can order a oversized fcd. If It dosent chamber after using the oversized fcd then the chamber is to small any way for the oversized bullet. Probably 90 percent of my loads don’t even touch the sizer portion of the fcd any way. I like it it works and use it as a tool. Know what can be done or not done with it and it will work .

[onelight]

You are right it was all mixed range brass. Some are thick and some very thin in the case mouth . I can feel it on seating the bullet or just in sizing the case is when I feel the difference the most . So case length is also all over the place also.this is why I really like the fcd . If the shell doesn’t chamber I first just touch the case mouth with it. If it still doesn’t chamber I can size the casing full length. If I have tension problems caused by full length sizing I can order a oversized fcd. If It dosent chamber after using the oversized fcd then the chamber is to small any way for the oversized bullet. Probably 90 percent of my loads don’t even touch the sizer portion of the fcd any way. I like it it works and use it as a tool. Know what can be done or not done with it and it will work .

That is the kind of loads I shoot most these days . I am sure the bulls eye guys cringe when they see how I put my plinkers together I keep my powder charges on the light end. I make sure they cycle in all my guns. And my final loads will put 5 shots in 1 hole at 7 to 10 yards and most under 3 at 25 if I do my part. My version of WW white box :razz:
I load maximum or hunting loads much differently .

[mdi]

Not meant to disrespect anyone, but, I have loaded 45 ACP for 3 guns, 9mm for 3 guns and 380 ACP for a newer gun in the tens of thousands and once a load is established I often use mixed brass. I have never, nope never had to size a finished round to make it chamber in any gun. If a round doesn't chamber, I find out why and correct it. IMO, using an FCD to make handloads chamber correctly is just sloppy reloading...

[onelight]

Not meant to disrespect anyone, but, I have loaded 45 ACP for 3 guns, 9mm for 3 guns and 380 ACP for a newer gun in the tens of thousands and once a load is established I often use mixed brass. I have never, nope never had to size a finished round to make it chamber in any gun. If a round doesn't chamber, I find out why and correct it. IMO, using an FCD to make handloads chamber correctly is just sloppy reloading...
You are certainly welcome to your opinion and you should load to satisfy yourself that is how it should be .
A lot of people don't seem to like the carbide FCD if you don't want factory spec ammo it's the wrong choice.
I also load for 8-45s 2-40s and 7 or 8-9s I loaded with standard die sets for 30 years so I have something to compare it to. I get no leading with the bullets I use , I get accuracy that suites my purpose and they simplify the process . Why not use them ?
The FCD is not a good choice for every application I don't know that any die is , but they do a great job for me. They do exactly what Lee advertises they do.

[kmw1954]

Not meant to disrespect anyone, but,.

I have never, nope never had to size a finished round to make it chamber in any gun. If a round doesn't chamber, I find out why and correct it. IMO, using an FCD to make handloads chamber correctly is just sloppy reloading...

I have seen this response numerous times and numerous times I have asked you the same question and never receive a response. So I will ask once again.

I have a Witness 45acp with a very tight barrel. My reloads are all within spec when measured. I can feed these reloads into any other 45acp and they all work yet in this Witness 45acp I get a 40% failure rate. Even if I plunk test every round in that barrel. A moderator at the CZ forum instructed me to try the Carbide FCD and report back. So I did. From that point on every round I have reloaded has chambered and fired.

So this issue here is not sloppy reloading procedures or practices but a problematic barrel. So again the Question is do you use the Lee Carbide FCD and be happy with a $25.00 fix or do you take and send out the barrel for alterations so that it will function with reloaded ammunition?

[C.F.Plinker]

What are you sizing your boolits to?
If you pull a boolit from a cartridge that you ran through the Lee CFCD what does it measure at?
Is that measurement greater than the groove diameter?

[onelight]

What are you sizing your boolits to?
If you pull a boolit from a cartridge that you ran through the Lee CFCD what does it measure at?
Is that measurement greater than the groove diameter?
For 45 auto .452 I have not pulled a bullet to remeasure , I have not had a problem that needed attention with the bullets hi-tek coated , powder charges and guns I use these in , I don't load heavy or max charges in untrimmed not sorted for length mixed range brass.
I work up my loads based on an OAL with the bullet I want that feeds reliably and is safe in all my guns.
2 of the huge advantages in casting and reloading for me are low cost per round , and or ammo tailored to a particular gun to get the most from it for a particular purpose .
I can and do load both kinds of ammo.
Sometimes for dinner I heat up a can of Denty More beef stew I like it..
Sometimes I grill steak fix a loaded baked potato , salad and home made bread and I like this better but it takes a lot more work. I like both options.

[Jniedbalski]

I could of just adjusted my RCBS seating and crimp die in deeper and fixed my problem. I remember when loading them up I wanted a lighter crimp for the lead bullets I was using. I just wanted to get the flair out from belling them. They had very good neck tension. When loading my 32 acp cases up I used the lee seating and crimp die in two differnt operations. Then I tried the lee fcd on them. The carbide insert only sized maybe 25 in 500 cases and the crimp looked exactly like my regular seating crimp die. I sized the bullets first before loading them At .311 .they all fit the chamber and shot great. Now the 45 I could of sized the whole case down with the fcd using the carbide insert but decided to only use the carbide insert to just touch the mouth of the case to get rid of the bell. My bullets where not sized down doing it this way and they fit the Wilson case gauge and my barrel. I tried sizing a few completely with the fcd but it was sizing my oversized bullets down in some cases so I didint . If the bullets are slightly oversized and still fit my gun way not. If it chambers I shoot the biggest that will fit. My 308 axis likes .311 and I expand all my lead loads with a noe expander .i find the biggest that will fit and get the noe expander .002 under that size. I tried .313 very tight .312 tight and .311 snug but chambers easily . This is the way I use the Fcd it works that way for me.

[onelight]

I could of just adjusted my RCBS seating and crimp die in deeper and fixed my problem. I remember when loading them up I wanted a lighter crimp for the lead bullets I was using. I just wanted to get the flair out from belling them. They had very good neck tension. When loading my 32 acp cases up I used the lee seating and crimp die in two differnt operations. Then I tried the lee fcd on them. The carbide insert only sized maybe 25 in 500 cases and the crimp looked exactly like my regular seating crimp die. I sized the bullets first before loading them At .311 .they all fit the chamber and shot great. Now the 45 I could of sized the whole case down with the fcd using the carbide insert but decided to only use the carbide insert to just touch the mouth of the case to get rid of the bell. My bullets where not sized down doing it this way and they fit the Wilson case gauge and my barrel. I tried sizing a few completely with the fcd but it was sizing my oversized bullets down in some cases so I didint . If the bullets are slightly oversized and still fit my gun way not. If it chambers I shoot the biggest that will fit. My 308 axis likes .311 and I expand all my lead loads with a noe expander .i find the biggest that will fit and get the noe expander .002 under that size. I tried .313 very tight .312 tight and .311 snug but chambers easily . This is the way I use the Fcd it works that way for me.
It sounds like you have a process that works for you. If you need oversized bullets and have a custom expander to preserve your bullet size the carbide FCD is not a good choice. But you have used it to solve a problem discovered after loading . Good idea.
In my use the carbide FCD is most useful on cases that headspace off the mouth and you are satisfied with bullets close to standard diameter , what it does for me is eliminate the need for trimming and or sorting by length and or doing a plunk test on every round to find the ones you need to fix. With cartridges that headspace off the rim case length is less critical for function if i choose bullets with a crimp grove that can accept a little variance in case length so a regular roll crimp die works just as well but I still buy the 4 die Lee sets for these revolver sets they do not post size bullets in my dies that are .001 to .002 larger than standard . I prefer the powder through expanders , the way bullet seating and crimp adjustments are made on the Lee dies...I might add that for me this has more importance to me where I am interested in a high volume of production for me that is 500 or a 1000 in one session.
99 percent of my shooting at this point in my life is just casual entertainment and CC gun practice.

[mozeppa]

Little wolf Wow I just ordered the lee .452 sizer and have been using it. Just started loading for the 45 so I guess I will find out if I need a .451 sizer. Hope not well it’s only another 26$ For die and shipping

never fear...for if you really get into this hobby, you'll have 40+ sizing push thru dies. like me.....and i'm just a piker, there are some here that have way more than me!

[Jniedbalski]

What are you sizing your boolits to?
If you pull a boolit from a cartridge that you ran through the Lee CFCD what does it measure at?
Is that measurement greater than the groove diameter?
I size my 45 to .452 . Some cases are thin and don’t size down using the fcd but a lot do so I don’t use the fcd to size the compleat case. I have a single lee mold that cast at .453 .4535 and it will size this bullet down and mess up tension. So I just use my regular seating crimp die or use the fcd and just touch the case mouth with it to straighten up the bell in the case
. Now my Bretta has a tight chamber so I size my bullets to .311 then use the factory crimp die. Yes it sizes some bullets down in thick cases but I have to in this gun because of the tight chamber. It still shoots good like this. I could sort cases and get rid of the thick ones but ism not that good of a shot and it shoots decent anyway. I tried sorting some but really could not notice that much of a difference in this gun

[kmw1954]

Not a fix, just a cover up...

Funny, but this is the first time I've seen this question.

Personally I don't care what tools and equipment anybody uses, what I don't like is when a new or newer reloader reads one of these "FCD success stories" they might believe it's OK to just make a round work after a mistake/poor method, i.e.; hide it rather than learning a proper solution to the problem, promoting sloppy reloading. I'll stand by my experience; FCDs are a cover up.

I am definitely not a Lee Hater, I just believe an FCD is not necessary, under any normal conditions.?

You may not have seen this question before and that is fine, I don't expect every comment to be read or responded to.

For the greater part I agree with your assumptions and feelings about the Lee Carbide FCD. I only own one and it was bought for the sole purpose of loading for this Witness. I perform all other loading operations on either a Lee 3 hole turret press or a Lee 3 hole Pro1000 using just standard factory everyday carbide 3 die set.

In the case of this Witness it is the gun that is the problem and not the ammunition. So you may see this as a Cover up and not a Fix, I disagree. This gun functions very well with this fix and is one of the most accurate pistols I own and see no need to send this out to have the barrel altered just so I can fire reloads in it. So again your assumption is that these are sloppy reloads and not a mechanical issue with the barrel. Not every malfunction is the result of the ammunition being used.

[onelight]

I have measured out side dimensions on several factory loads comparing them to ammo loaded with the Lee set for all practical purposes they are the same . That is good enough for me. We are the ones that stretch the envelope. The carbide FCD does what it is designed to do. If that is not what you need it's the wrong tool for you.
You are talking to a lot of people that use it with much success. Or are we all mistaken along with the major manufacturers whose ammo these dies duplicate.
I use hi-tek coated bullets with most of my pistol ammo so I have a bandaid on a band aid call it what you want I call it a simple way to load reliable simple to load reasonably accurate ammo .

[AlaskaMike]

Yep, we get it. mdi doesn't like the Lee Carbide FCD. Let's please move past this and not let this thread devolve into yet another FCD hate thread.

[kmw1954]

mdi, I do actually agree with your premise that when there is a problem it should be investigated and corrected. Guess my issue is with the idea that using the Lee factory crimp die is to cover Sloppy work and I agree that it can be used that way but it isn't Always the case. Such as my case, I went thru a lot of time and work to narrow down the issue to the gun barrel. In this case I decided that the Die was a better solution than Altering the gun. For many reasons and one being this gun shoot exceptionally well as is. Not everyone shoots reloaded ammunition and this gun also fires perfectly fine with New Factory ammunition. The next owner after me may never load a reloaded round into it. So why alter it?

As I acknowledged in your quote with italics and underlined, "I just believe an FCD is not necessary, under any normal conditions." I would suggest that in my case this is NOT a Normal Condition.

So I guess my objection is that you imply that anyone using a Lee Carbide FCD, for whatever reason, is just covering up Sloppy Work. Or at least that is the way it comes across.

[brewer12345]

That is the kind of loads I shoot most these days . I am sure the bulls eye guys cringe when they see how I put my plinkers together I keep my powder charges on the light end. I make sure they cycle in all my guns. And my final loads will put 5 shots in 1 hole at 7 to 10 yards and most under 3 at 25 if I do my part. My version of WW white box :razz:
I load maximum or hunting loads much differently .

Yeah, there is a big difference between plinking and loads where every single shot matters. I shoot lots of HG68 clone over 4.5 grains of bullseye. I powder coat and just make sure it plunks. More than adequate for keeping me up to snuff at the range and not punishing to me or the gun. I will soon load up some of the same boolit over 7 grains of Unique. That is much closer to a max standard pressure load. It is really accurate, but has a chunk of recoil. Something I shoot a bit at the range, but also consider to be a woods carry load. So I take a bit more care with this load and might even run some through the dreaded FCD just to ensure that it functions reliably should I run into a cougar or two legged predator in the great outdoors.

[kmw1954]

As I have just started with casting I am unfamiliar with the mold that the OP mentions though I have started with a Lee 452-200 SWC 2 cavity mold. These dropped and turned out very nicely and these are sized as dropped which is right about .4525"/.453", Tumble lubed with 45/45/10 and these are being loaded into R-P cases and charged with 4.5gr of HP-38. They seem to dry cycle well so I am hopeful they shoot just as well.

[brewer12345]

As I have just started with casting I am unfamiliar with the mold that the OP mentions though I have started with a Lee 452-200 SWC 2 cavity mold. These dropped and turned out very nicely and these are sized as dropped which is right about .4525"/.453", Tumble lubed with 45/45/10 and these are being loaded into R-P cases and charged with 4.5gr of HP-38. They seem to dry cycle well so I am hopeful they shoot just as well.

Should do just fine, as long as they plunk. That is the classic 45 target boolit design.

[Jniedbalski]

I also got the lee mold .452 200 swc. They cast great looking bullets right at .4523 -.453 like yours. I have shot them along with some store bought 185 gr swc. They both shoot good. I also got the lee .452 230 tc. My nine mm tc mold lee .356 120 tc and 40 .401 175 tc mold shoot so good I also got it for the 45. I haven’t tried them yet in 45 but think it should shoot good.

[baragasam]

Once tried a Lee 160gr on 3.4gr-3.6gr of Titegroup, got about 800 FPS out a short barrel. Shot great.

[Burnt Fingers]

I recently picked up a 4C Lyman 452630, I have a 2C and really like the boolit.

I've got a 4C H&G 68 that I rarely use. My favorite boolit is the RCBS 201KT. Sadly it's only available in a 2C.